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Halo |OT13|
- Thread starter kylej
- Start date
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Syphon Filter
Member
We need to get Halo back it's throne next gen .Lets make it happen guys.
Syphon Filter
Member
Nah i think nov is better. Halo has a chance to get it's spot back next gen when things restart. They just need to hang in there.
You joke, but I always wanted a mode like Halo Wars where you could unleash the Flood on your enemies. I ended up making something similar for Stacraft II. I dunno if it would be coop or some sort of versus mode--maybe in the future we'll be able to get multiplayer level quality for coop play instead of the campaign network model.
xxjuicesxx
Member
K I'm going to make a list of things Halo needs to get back to the throne. I want you all to quote it and repeat the words "I Agree" Do not disagree with certain parts do not do anything but type "I Agree" because if all of this is not done, I can guarantee you CoD will beat Halo again. Even if all this stuff is incorporated it will only have a fighting chance of competing with CoD.
1. 60 fps
2. Dedicated Servers
3. Campaign Theater back
4. An improved map editor
5. No Sprint Default
6. No Loadouts
7. No AA's
8. Equipment that take place of AA's
9. Powerups back on map
10. Simple maps with less scatter everywhere, simpler hallways, doorways
11. More small maps
12. An actual ranking system
13. Fileshare that works
14. Ordnance system absolutely gone, weapons on map again
15. Forge improved dramatially.
16. Custom button configurations
17. X-Y sensitivity axis differentiation
18. Effects/Music/Voice differentiation
19. Real FFA playlists
20. Real Mercenaries (No Parties playlist)
At the VERY least.
343 doesn't care what what the halo community thinks, so there's really nothing we can do.
What we need to do is become CoD fans, and urge those developers to change the CoD formula to replicate classic halo, then 343 will obviously follow suit because apparently thats the only thing they can do.
Syphon Filter
Member
Yea but notice it began when they started to stray away from what made Halo great. If Halo 4 was made by bungie and was the Halo we know i think it would have gotten its spot back.Also MS did a terrible ad campaign surprisingly for Halo 4.
Syphon Filter
Member
I think Halo can outlast cod and therefore get its spot back unless something else pops up. As long as MS doesn't release Halo every year.
xxjuicesxx
Member
You just need to type I Agree.
We really dont have time for these nice thoughts. CoD has been around longer and has continually retained more players. Its not "GOING AWAY".
Jire Huices
I disagree.
Halo stopped being the number one because Call of Duty offers a more accessible and rewarding experience to the average player. On a very basic level 60fps draws people in like Halo just can't, and faster kill times, games that leverage the individual with unlocks and plentiful carrots to munch are always going to appeal to the mass audience.
Hence the vast hordes currently playing Call of Duty.
I'm going to make a very safe statement and say that Halo will never appeal to the masses like Call of Duty does. But, that doesn't have much to do with how bad Halo 4 is to Halo fans, and the argument I think we should be pushing, alternatively, is that if you're going to aim for a very good online shooter that appeals to your fanbase but isn't going to ultimately topple the status quo, then why are you pushing all these baggy, trite, ill-fitting features into the Halo game we used to love?
If you aren't gaining such a marked advantage by changing your game so clearly, and to chase an audience that really isn't interested in investing, at the expense of the people who've made your franchise what it is today, is that a worthwhile goal?
Syphon Filter
Member
And Marty.
The Librarian
Banned
Halo can't compete because it's not as realistic.
Halo competing with CoD was the silliest idea ever invented.
When CoD4 and Halo 3 were released, the reason people stuck with Halo or moved to CoD; or, hell, played BOTH was because they were DIFFERENT games.
People tried CoD4 and went back to Halo 3 because they enjoyed Halo.
People tried CoD4 and stuck with CoD4 because they preferred CoD.
And some people, like me, played both, because they enjoyed the differences in the game, not the similarities.
With Halo 4 attempting to blur the line between gameplay that made Halo, Halo, and what makes CoD, CoD, many gamers would easily stick with CoD. The CoD formula is perfected. They know what game their trying to make. More importantly, the CoD gamers know what game their going to play.
Halo will never overtake CoD by trying to be CoD, Halo will overtake CoD by being Halo; by being different from CoD.
Syphon Filter
Member
huh? then how come all those games last gen didn't compete with halo?
Syphon Filter
Member
Yea i know, that is what i mean. They need to make Halo 5 like the Halo we know.
xxjuicesxx
Member
Look I'm not even about taking away options. I want the AA's to be there, for customs and more "custom" gametypes. I want there to be options, they just dont seem to care anymore.
Most of the list is a return to Halo point or a Customizeable option point.
At the very least you need a better game, Halo 4 is too unflexible and its glitchy as hell, and has very bad performance.
Its literally unacceptable as a game. If it was an employee it would be on the skirts of being fired.
Thats what a ton of points were. We need to get Halo closer to Halo 1 + 2 and less like 3, Reach, 4. Think of something like Madden, game hardly changes but people buy it every year.
I think everything here is good except for the bolded. Maybe even the AA's part.
I'll preface this by saying that I would prefer Halo to have a good base speed over sprint. But in terms of Halo getting players back and having a chance at beating CoD, it needs to have sprint. I know a lot of people in the latter days of Halo 3 wishing they could sprint.
More people wished sprint was on by default in Reach.
Unfortunately it has just become a standard thing in almost all games, not just FPS's. Removing sprint would annoy a lot of people.
As far as equipment and AA's go. I think we should keep AA's but make them work more like equipment. Think of it like Quad damage from Quake. You pick it up, and if you die you drop it.
So imagine where was a jetpack spawn on map. You run up to it, get it, and you have a jetpack with a set amount of Fuel/Battery/Energy or whatever. If you die, you drop the jetpack like you dropped equipment or weapons.
"What made Halo great" isn't a set period in time. It's just your opinion. A lot of people think that started with Halo 2. Some people think it happened with Halo 3. There's nothing Bungie or 343 could have done to make Halo sell more than CoD.
The Librarian
Banned
I think equipment can work best for everyone if you treated them as power weapons with long respawn times and a one time use. Well, I guess it depends on their use. Something like the gravity lift doesn't have to have a 180 second respawn time. Something like the bubble shield or a regenerator would be more appropriate for that time.
Of course, I was fine with equipment's implementation in Halo 3, but I know that's a divisive subject.
Of course, I was fine with equipment's implementation in Halo 3, but I know that's a divisive subject.
xxjuicesxx
Member
Yea but theres tons of things they could have done to come closer. They just DONT. They have a huge team of employees, mountains of cash went into the game, and it still fell short. They just look at ideas and toss them aside because its not "the vision" they have for the game.
Yea, agreed if you have them placeable in forge you can set individual respawn times, max on map. You could control the amount of AA's out on the field you could create variable gameplay without creating chaotic omg wthell gameplay. Which is nice sometimes in like BTB or a larger playlist where its not all in once place.
Syphon Filter
Member
What's wrong with Halo 3? People loved it here if i remember and it pretty much played like halo 2 just had worse maps.
Who thinks it started with Halo 3? Where they born after 2004? How can anyone prefer H3 over 2? What does 3 do better besides the campaign? Better maps? No. Better playlist management? No. Better menus during matchmaking? No. WHAT Valhalla and the AR? That's it?
Btw, if equipment was just the mini grav lift I'd be okay with it. A mini grav lift and radar scrambler.
Btw, if equipment was just the mini grav lift I'd be okay with it. A mini grav lift and radar scrambler.
Again, on a very basic level, yes.
Audiences want M16's, and washed out colours, and dust obscuring your vision.
Because they didn't marry that addictive, accessible gameplay loop with the realistic context, and because online gaming to an extent didn't really exist on consoles, outside of Halo. Counterstrike and Battlefield have always been the predominant first person shooters on PC.
It can still compete even without being realistic. However, when you take UI and player experience elements wholesale out of CoD (about the same number of loadouts, and you even have to unlock loadouts as you go, exactly like CoD) you're going to force people to directly compare you against the other game. Perks. Etc. It's basically saying "Hey, you like CoD.. how about some Halo-skin CoD?". Then people are like "I kinda like that.. but I'd rather play CoD with more people".
Halo 3 was preferable because people actually played Halo 3, not Captain Jacknuts McGee off in the skybox with the bomb for 3 hours.
The Librarian
Banned
Guys, I wasn't being entirely serious with that realistic comment. Guess that's my fault.
Syphon Filter
Member
Yes i believe they can. Remember when cod 4 got big,Halo 3 was still on top. WaW released and Halo 3 was still on top[even gears 2 released that year] It was MW2 that finally took out halo 3, two years later. Reach was never going to sell as much as Halo 3 due to no MC and not numbered. Halo 4 was the chance to do it.
Don't be absurd.
Halo 2/3 are quite clearly an entirely different species to 4/Reach, regardless whether people preferred 2 or 3, it was the core philosophies that were maintained through the original trilogy which made Halo great.
Halo should be taking the approach of the Mario series, Mario's core gameplay has essentially been the same since 3D Mario began with Super Mario 64. Sunshine was the biggest mistep because it tried to be completely different by attempting to emulate GTA3, but as soon as EAD realised that they should maintain Mario's core mechanics and philosophies, and then innovate AROUND those philosophies, they made three of the greatest platformers ever made, Galaxy 1, 2 and SML3D.
Both Reach and Halo 4 disregarded one of the series' most important core philosphies, which is ensuring every player starts on a level playing field, they need to return to that or start a new fucking IP, because what they're making isn't Halo.
Halo |OT5| Believe, Again
I won't disagree at all. Simply, I don't want things in this game to slow it down any further. I'm all for adding a new power-up or two like a double jump or a radar scrambler (which has same duration as an OS/Camo would normally have), but the past pieces of equipment just added more randomness to the fray. Love a map like Beaver Creek or Coag you either fight over one center item, or each team is given one in an area away from the bases. You can have many smaller maps that don't need them at all, either, and just use for a good, central weapon instead. Midship!
Franklinator
Member
Super Mario Sunshine tried to emulate GTA 3?
xxjuicesxx
Member
Its basically where they threw performance out the window the game was a hundred times less smooth than H1 + H2. It ran at sub 30fps, it also varied depending on what you were looking at so it was very unnerving, the netcode was pretty bad...and the maps were real bad.
Its the start to where they said we care more about graphics than the core game performance. They pushed the boundaries of the Xbox too hard and didnt care.
Also the visual indication of damage/shields/health was a little weak.
But yes it still stuck to Halo principles a bit better than Reach and H4 obviously.
I loved the mission where you had to pick up the hooker from the Delphino fruit stand.
I honestly never saw the point in 60 fps, can you even notice it?
Restoring Halo's core principles won't propel Halo above Call of Duty for the foreseeable future, but it will bring back the audience which made Halo successful in the first place, which should be incentive enough.
I'd understand resistance from 343 if Halo 4 was incredibly popular online, and there were an influx of people here and across the spectrum of community feedback who'd flocked to the community as a direct result of the change in focus, indicating that their changes had hit the spot, or a niche, that was going to propel Halo on a successful trajectory for the next decade.
As it is we've got passionate fans, the lifeblood of the franchise, leaving en mass as a result of these changes. We've also got large dropoff rates and a declining population that's been temporarily boosted by Christmas, a boost that still sees it lightyears behind the market leader.
It's like sacrificing everything you've got for no return. Like selling up your house with a coastal view for an apartment in the city with one less bedroom.
It's a sideways step that betrays everything you said you were working for: Halo, and it's community.
I'd understand resistance from 343 if Halo 4 was incredibly popular online, and there were an influx of people here and across the spectrum of community feedback who'd flocked to the community as a direct result of the change in focus, indicating that their changes had hit the spot, or a niche, that was going to propel Halo on a successful trajectory for the next decade.
As it is we've got passionate fans, the lifeblood of the franchise, leaving en mass as a result of these changes. We've also got large dropoff rates and a declining population that's been temporarily boosted by Christmas, a boost that still sees it lightyears behind the market leader.
It's like sacrificing everything you've got for no return. Like selling up your house with a coastal view for an apartment in the city with one less bedroom.
It's a sideways step that betrays everything you said you were working for: Halo, and it's community.
Probably my biggest issues with Halo 4 is the lack of options. I'm fine with 343i trying to leave their mark on the series, but when I don't have the option to disable shit like instant respawn and Flagnum without the need for modded gametypes then we have an issue.
I'm fine with the idea of equipment but there are still several issues with it in my opinion:
- The respawn rate is way too high. Combined with the fact that new pieces can spawn while others are still holding onto theirs makes for a chaos of equipment at times.
- They're invisible until used. There's no way of seeing what piece of equipment someone is carrying with them. A bubble shield can pop up out of nowhere which isn't fun for the people on the receiving end.
- The equipment pieces them selves were often frustrating to play against. Obvious examples are the flare and radar jammer which were rightfully removed from maps fairly soon. They're annoying for pretty much everyone involved and were mostly used for trolling. The bubble shield and regenerator, aside from being backpocket safety nets, slowed down the game tremendously at times. Nothing quite as annoying as getting someone one-shot only for that guy to pull out a shield or regen field and be almost completely safe, especially if they're at range. Don't even get me started on the incredibly dumb fights I've had in regen fields.
If it were up to me I would turn equipment into different kinds of power-ups. There's only one, maybe two on each maps and they spawn every couple of minutes, nothing too crazy. They last for a certain amount of time (say, 30 seconds) just like normal power-ups. You can have a double jump power-up, damage boost, speed boost, that kind of stuff. It fits perfectly into what I like most about Halo while still moving it forward.
That's the kind of chances I was hoping to see with Halo 3 and onward. Sadly, Bungie and 343 went the opposite way.
Good choice.
Syphon Filter
Member
Yea it makes no sense that there aren't options,they made it seem like there would be. simple things like turn xp,weapon hudd off,disable kill cam will make things a bit better.
People always make a big deal of how "Halo simply MUST change now that the gaming landscape has changed" - the argument is that with the rise of games like the Call of Duty franchise and the explosion in popularity then Halo MUST go down that path to compete. And I am sick and tired of this line of reasoning.
The last time that Halo was king of the hill
was when the were decisively different than all other first person shooters on the market. It's possible that the gaming market has changed, for better or worse, but it's also possible that Halo has lost all of this market share, and longevity, simply because it changed the Halo formula.
If we look at the history of Xbox Live and the first person shooter multiplayer genre in general the simplest explanation is that Halo changed - it is much more complex to think that millions upon millions of players simultaneously decided that they wanted unlocking perks, weapons, attachments, kill streaks, etc., and that's why they moved away from the Halo franchise. And when you follow this convoluted and erroneous line of reasoning you end up with Halo 4. A game that at the core does actually "feel like Halo," but has so many poor gameplay decisions layered on top of it that you can't ever get down to that "feel" unless you arrange some custom games and/or play with modded/hacked game files.
The hook of the Halo series (most notably in 2 and 3) was an irresistible siren call to gaming. Due to the ranking systems in place you actually cared about winning or losing (and if you didn't care it didn't really matter - you would soon be separated from those that did care and wouldn't ever match with them again). With the "grind-it-out-experience-bar-of-neverending-carrots" systems in place now winning means almost nothing compared to playing selfishly and ignoring both teammates and objectives. While ranking systems may have led to griefing, deranking, or boosting and selling accounts the experience system leads to selfish, boring, gameplay with no incentive to play the game other than to work on your chosen weapon commendation, unlock a new visor color, etc., most of which does not promote winning or team play.
Juices has made a great list above (now quoted below) on what it will truly take for Halo to regain the market share that the franchise deserves. The path the Halo universe is currently on will continue to dwindle and fade as it will forever feel like a poor Call of Duty stand in.
The 60 FPS needs to be unwavering, locked, permanent, etc., no matter how many explosions, bullets, rocket trails, players, or vehicles are on the screen at a given time. I don't care if 8 players are all in the same hill, playing split screen, with flame throwers and unlimited promethean greandes; the stuttering in framerate (I think it goes as low as 5-10 frames per second on Shatter) is unplayable at times and is the main reason I'm not paying for the Crimson DLC after my week long "trial" I was so graciously given.
The last time that Halo was king of the hill
RIP King of the Hill
If we look at the history of Xbox Live and the first person shooter multiplayer genre in general the simplest explanation is that Halo changed - it is much more complex to think that millions upon millions of players simultaneously decided that they wanted unlocking perks, weapons, attachments, kill streaks, etc., and that's why they moved away from the Halo franchise. And when you follow this convoluted and erroneous line of reasoning you end up with Halo 4. A game that at the core does actually "feel like Halo," but has so many poor gameplay decisions layered on top of it that you can't ever get down to that "feel" unless you arrange some custom games and/or play with modded/hacked game files.
The hook of the Halo series (most notably in 2 and 3) was an irresistible siren call to gaming. Due to the ranking systems in place you actually cared about winning or losing (and if you didn't care it didn't really matter - you would soon be separated from those that did care and wouldn't ever match with them again). With the "grind-it-out-experience-bar-of-neverending-carrots" systems in place now winning means almost nothing compared to playing selfishly and ignoring both teammates and objectives. While ranking systems may have led to griefing, deranking, or boosting and selling accounts the experience system leads to selfish, boring, gameplay with no incentive to play the game other than to work on your chosen weapon commendation, unlock a new visor color, etc., most of which does not promote winning or team play.
Juices has made a great list above (now quoted below) on what it will truly take for Halo to regain the market share that the franchise deserves. The path the Halo universe is currently on will continue to dwindle and fade as it will forever feel like a poor Call of Duty stand in.
The 60 FPS needs to be unwavering, locked, permanent, etc., no matter how many explosions, bullets, rocket trails, players, or vehicles are on the screen at a given time. I don't care if 8 players are all in the same hill, playing split screen, with flame throwers and unlimited promethean greandes; the stuttering in framerate (I think it goes as low as 5-10 frames per second on Shatter) is unplayable at times and is the main reason I'm not paying for the Crimson DLC after my week long "trial" I was so graciously given.
I think Halo 3 had it perfect to be honest. Power Drainer, Regen and Bubble shield were 'power' items which had to be used intelligently to really make a difference and change a game.
Is perhaps the lowest priority addition to the series out there.
Yup. By following the same rules as powerups, a lot of potential was there, but they broke basically every single rule the powerups did, and on top of that the wrong items became the focus of Bungie's placement efforts (gameplay stopping items like bubble shields and regen, AOE nukes like power drainer). That might have been fine if they didn't spawn so fast, but even still, I'd rather have a focus on tertiary effects like the radar jammer (however trolly it may be) and gravity lift. Combine the two systems and make sure the spawning rules and gameplay effects make sense, and something great can come of it. Halo 3's equipment did neither of those, which is a shame.
MaximumFlipFlop
Banned
Smoother visuals, less input lag. Those 2 things alone are great.
Today I was wandering through Target (which was packed) and strolled past the games section. They had a lot of games marked down to 39.99 and every single one was sold out; Fifa 13, Madden 13, Black Ops 2, Far Cry 3, some Hitman game, and Assassins Creed III.
The only game that was marked 39.99 that wasn't sold out was Halo 4. They still had over 15 copies in the case. Sad day.
Locked 60 FPS should be a standard requirement on the Xbox 720. It is a night and day difference when you compare locked 60 FPS to the wavering 10-30 FPS on some maps in rotation in Halo 4.
The only game that was marked 39.99 that wasn't sold out was Halo 4. They still had over 15 copies in the case. Sad day.
Locked 60 FPS should be a standard requirement on the Xbox 720. It is a night and day difference when you compare locked 60 FPS to the wavering 10-30 FPS on some maps in rotation in Halo 4.
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