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[AlexFlame116]

I was reading into why JonTron was still in this game. Was there ever a developer comment on it?

You were banned for the following posts:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=158877766&postcount=2850
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=198657596&postcount=109
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=200893120&postcount=64
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=217264230
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=233110518 (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=233111488 http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=233112162&postcount=572)

Please note that the third last ban is for saying you don't care about a video examining a social justice issue, the second last ban is for getting mad at people for not liking Sugiyama's politics, and the last ban is for having an absolute fucking meltdown about people not liking Palmer Luckey.

Choose your next reply wisely.

Oof! Wow Stump I'm incredibly impressed!

 

[Sparrowhawk]

Although it sounds like some very questionable people have worked on the game, it still looks to be a solid 3D platformer. I'll wait for a sale, I guess.

Yeah, there's nothing wrong with A Hat in Time as far as gameplay goes. Not Mario levels of polish, but definitely superior to Yooka-Laylee.

 

[ZSaberLink]

I'm probably in the minority here, but sometimes I think it's best to quietly do the right thing than shout from the rooftops and then make a big deal out of it. Especially when JonTron's role may be super minor.

Obviously JonTron is a racist and has abhorrent views. Everyone also has the right to not consume his content. However I really think this is one of those cases that there are much bigger fish to fry as opposed to a small cameo in some game. Unless Gears for Breakfast themselves have shown to be terrible people in some way (sorry I haven't gotten around to reading the thread), I honestly think I'd rather spend my time trying to make meaningful change elsewhere.

 

[Sparrowhawk]

Apparently, being against racism is a "bizarre mindset".

 

[DecoReturns]

Apparently, being against racism is a "bizarre mindset".

"Principles"

 

[Alucrid]

who even bothers to post on the steam forums aside from if the game ain't working

 

[JaseC]

I'm probably in the minority here, but sometimes I think it's best to quietly do the right thing than shout from the rooftops and then make a big deal out of it. Especially when JonTron's role may be super minor.

Obviously JonTron is a racist and has abhorrent views. Everyone also has the right to not consume his content. However I really think this is one of those cases that there are much bigger fish to fry as opposed to a small cameo in some game. Unless Gears for Breakfast themselves have shown to be terrible people in some way (sorry I haven't gotten around to reading the thread), I honestly think I'd rather spend my time trying to make meaningful change elsewhere.

I think the root of the frustration is that not only has Gears stayed mum about whether it intends to remove his lines from the game, but it has also not so much as denounced his views. People want to know what sort of hands their money would be falling into if they were to buy the game and Gears continuing to ignore the matter looks more and more like tacit agreement. It finally bowing to pressure by simply issuing a statement would allow those on the fence to make an informed decision.

 

[NEO0MJ]

The only problem I have either people opposing having Jon in the game is how often do they boycott products that terrible people worked on? Dragon Quest is a game series everyone and their mother seem to have played but the composer is a genuinely terrible person but I've never seen threads demanding he be removed or that people should boycott the games.

 

[Makonero]

who even bothers to post on the steam forums aside from if the game ain't working

review bombers

aka shitheads of the sky

 

[Foffy]

I’m curious exactly how much it might cost to simply replace him.

PC mods should be easy.

Use text to speech to re-record his lines and force the game to read those over Jon's lines.

 

[Lowmelody]

Oh god damn it, I was assuming they had removed him by now. I'll hold out for a day 1 patch and then I'll have to grudgingly cast the game out of sight out of mind forever.

They had time and knowledge and still choose to associate with this this pig.

It's a shame it's come to this completely avoidable hard stop.

 

[seat]

who even bothers to post on the steam forums aside from if the game ain't working

From the looks of it, people banned from NeoGAF.

 

[Phu]

From the looks of it, people banned from NeoGAF.

It's adorable how they still read GAF, though.

 

[Giftofgab24]

I'm probably in the minority here, but sometimes I think it's best to quietly do the right thing than shout from the rooftops and then make a big deal out of it. Especially when JonTron's role may be super minor.

Obviously JonTron is a racist and has abhorrent views. Everyone also has the right to not consume his content. However I really think this is one of those cases that there are much bigger fish to fry as opposed to a small cameo in some game. Unless Gears for Breakfast themselves have shown to be terrible people in some way (sorry I haven't gotten around to reading the thread), I honestly think I'd rather spend my time trying to make meaningful change elsewhere.

Speak for yourself. Change should be made whenever people have the opportunity. No matter how small or large. I, for one, am glad OP made this thread because I didn't know he was still in the game.
Obviously if you don't have the time to read the thread I don't think you should be commenting on what other people do with their time.

 

[NoKisum]

The only problem I have either people opposing having Jon in the game is how often do they boycott products that terrible people worked on? Dragon Quest is a game series everyone and their mother seem to have played but the composer is a genuinely terrible person but I've never seen threads demanding he be removed or that people should boycott the games.

I'm positive we'll see a thread like that once DQXI officially comes west. Same with KH3.

 

[Stumpokapow]

The only problem I have either people opposing having Jon in the game is how often do they boycott products that terrible people worked on? Dragon Quest is a game series everyone and their mother seem to have played but the composer is a genuinely terrible person but I've never seen threads demanding he be removed or that people should boycott the games.

Yes, if only people had discussed Sugiyama in this thread. . . . . . . . . .

 

[N30RYU]

as someone who has never been banned i have no idea

Even saying that posting what I think would grant me a ban was my last ban (if I remember correctly)... so keeping away from some threads is the way to go tbh.

 

[Conkerkid11]

Ah, I bet Bish is proud that his legacy lives on!

Seriously though, it's not a good idea to argue in bad faith around here, especially in such a heated topic. There really is no good reason to support JonTron at all now, so we are totally justified for being put-off by him being in the game still.

Wait, did I miss something?

What happened to Bish?

 

[ScientificPizza]

The only problem I have either people opposing having Jon in the game is how often do they boycott products that terrible people worked on? Dragon Quest is a game series everyone and their mother seem to have played but the composer is a genuinely terrible person but I've never seen threads demanding he be removed or that people should boycott the games.

One of the links in Stump’s post is literally about the DQ composer pushing someone away from the franchise

But, yeah, he obviously should not still have a job with Square

 

[Giftofgab24]

The only problem I have either people opposing having Jon in the game is how often do they boycott products that terrible people worked on? Dragon Quest is a game series everyone and their mother seem to have played but the composer is a genuinely terrible person but I've never seen threads demanding he be removed or that people should boycott the games.

Maybe you should make a thread highlighting the genuinely terrible things he's done and maybe you'd the. See a boycott. Mostly I think it can be explained by ignorance. It's impossible to know every horrible thing that every second has said or done. That doesn't mean we shouldn't do something when there's an egregious example of it though.

 

[JaseC]

Wait, did I miss something?

What happened to Bish?

This is all very reminiscent of what happened to off-topic for a couple months post-election. Of course, that madness turned out to be directly induced through sabotage by a now-former admin secretly banning *hundreds* of members totally outside of any justifiable grounds (not that any attempt at justification was made to begin with, being undisclosed and undocumented bans) in some 85-90% of each of those bans that were subsequently investigated after we became aware of the incident.

.

 

[AtomskEater]

The only problem I have either people opposing having Jon in the game is how often do they boycott products that terrible people worked on? Dragon Quest is a game series everyone and their mother seem to have played but the composer is a genuinely terrible person but I've never seen threads demanding he be removed or that people should boycott the games.

We have the occasional thread on Sugiyama and I'm pretty sure it was also discussed at some point in DQ11 threads. People make judgement calls on whether the possible enjoyment they get out of a product outweighs whatever horrible person they may be creating a salary for, and people are likely more attached to DQ than they are to the first release by a guy who seems to have skeletons in the closet himself. I don't find it confusing or begrudge people making different spending decisions with different products.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

The only problem I have either people opposing having Jon in the game is how often do they boycott products that terrible people worked on? Dragon Quest is a game series everyone and their mother seem to have played but the composer is a genuinely terrible person but I've never seen threads demanding he be removed or that people should boycott the games.

Did that guy go on an unfathomably public two hour rant on Twitch about how blacks, arabs, and mexicans are secretly plotting to turn our country into theirs, and how their genes should not dare touch our white ones?

 

[Conkerkid11]

.

Oh wow.

Thx

 

[Aroll]

I don't know why it matters if Gears says anything. They either upset one side or the other, and both are interested in their product. Maybe a developer just cares about making the best game they can and they don't really care about outside noise that deals with political, social, and racist stances.

I never really was a fan of jontron and I'm happy he basically revealed who he really is. Can't hide it anymore.

I don't care if he's in the game or not. So many people that are probably racist or sexist are in games or make games. We may not be aware of it because they aren't stupid enough to bring public attention too it.


I buy games to have fun. If people want to be shit heads, me not buying a game isn't going to change them being shit heads. I'm just going to have less fun.

As always, you guys do what you want with your money. Been wanting this game since day one. Jontron or no, it doesn't change how much fun I know I am going to have and fun is why I play games.

I csnt pretend I can really change the world by boycotting it.

 

[duckroll]

Did that guy go on an unfathomably public two hour rant on Twitch about how blacks, arabs, and mexicans are secretly plotting to turn our country into theirs, and how their genes should not dare touch our white ones?

No, he and his rich conservative friends instead put money where their mouth is and took out ads in American newspapers discrediting the plight of South Korean comfort women from WW2, while peddling war crime denial revisionist garbage. Fuck Sugiyama. Every cent anyone gives to a Dragon Quest album or concert ticket directly goes towards funding Japanese nationalistic war crime denial garbage.

 

[Lowmelody]

FreeDemiBish

 

[Cyanity]

So I totally understand why a bunch of you are on the fence about supporting a game with a known racist jerkoff in it (somewhere?). However, after watching some reviews of the game itself, its aesthetic and seemingly genuine charm look too good for me to pass on. I feel bad pulling the trigger, but it's legit my childhood in the form of a modern indie platformer. Supposedly 1) the music's A-tier, 2) there are clear influences and throwbacks to games like Super Mario Sunshine and Psychonauts, and 3) the humor is actually good. I've gotta do it guys. I've gotta.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

No, he and his rich conservative friends instead put money where their mouth is and took out ads in American newspapers discrediting the plight of South Korean comfort women from WW2, while peddling war crime denial revisionist garbage. Fuck Sugiyama. Every cent anyone gives to a Dragon Quest album or concert ticket directly goes towards funding Japanese nationalistic war crime denial garbage.

Wow.

I don't know why it matters if Gears says anything. They either upset one side or the other, and both are interested in their product. Maybe a developer just cares about making the best game they can and they don't really care about outside noise that deals with political, social, and racist stances.

So, you're saying the developers should be actively courting the wallets of skinheads?

I don't care if he's in the game or not. So many people that are probably racist or sexist are in games or make games. We may not be aware of it because they aren't stupid enough to bring public attention too it.

JonTron did, though. That's the entire point.

I buy games to have fun. If people want to be shit heads, me not buying a game isn't going to change them being shit heads. I'm just going to have less fun.

You're going to have less fun because one guy doesn't have two or three lines in the game?

JonTron's involvement in no way affects the gameplay at all.

I csnt pretend I can really change the world by boycotting it.

Ah, I see. You just want to post about your moral authority.

 

[Kinsei]

No, he and his rich conservative friends instead put money where their mouth is and took out ads in American newspapers discrediting the plight of South Korean comfort women from WW2, while peddling war crime denial revisionist garbage. Fuck Sugiyama. Every cent anyone gives to a Dragon Quest album or concert ticket directly goes towards funding Japanese nationalistic war crime denial garbage.

I had no idea he was that bad. I feel bad for buying the DQ7 remake when it came out.

 

[Pikma]

I don't know why it matters if Gears says anything. They either upset one side or the other, and both are interested in their product. Maybe a developer just cares about making the best game they can and they don't really care about outside noise that deals with political, social, and racist stances.

I never really was a fan of jontron and I'm happy he basically revealed who he really is. Can't hide it anymore.

I don't care if he's in the game or not. So many people that are probably racist or sexist are in games or make games. We may not be aware of it because they aren't stupid enough to bring public attention too it.


I buy games to have fun. If people want to be shit heads, me not buying a game isn't going to change them being shit heads. I'm just going to have less fun.

As always, you guys do what you want with your money. Been wanting this game since day one. Jontron or no, it doesn't change how much fun I know I am going to have and fun is why I play games.

I csnt pretend I can really change the world by boycotting it.

Lmao at using “both sides” in this situation.

It's not about pleasing anyone, it's about doing what is morally correct.

 

[NEO0MJ]

Yes, if only people had discussed Sugiyama in this thread. . . . . . . . . .

I just skimmed the last couple of pages so if I missed talk on that I apologise.

 

[ScientificPizza]

I don't know why it matters if Gears says anything. They either upset one side or the other, and both are interested in their product. Maybe a developer just cares about making the best game they can and they don't really care about outside noise that deals with political, social, and racist stances.

I never really was a fan of jontron and I'm happy he basically revealed who he really is. Can't hide it anymore.

I don't care if he's in the game or not. So many people that are probably racist or sexist are in games or make games. We may not be aware of it because they aren't stupid enough to bring public attention too it.


I buy games to have fun. If people want to be shit heads, me not buying a game isn't going to change them being shit heads. I'm just going to have less fun.

As always, you guys do what you want with your money. Been wanting this game since day one. Jontron or no, it doesn't change how much fun I know I am going to have and fun is why I play games.

I csnt pretend I can really change the world by boycotting it.

oh we both sides-ing now?

the change we make by boycotting is sending the message that working with white supremacists is unacceptable. it’s really not that difficult to understand

 

[Aroll]

Wow.



So, you're saying the developers should be actively courting the wallets of skinheads?



JonTron did, though. That's the entire point.



You're going to have less fun because one guy doesn't have two or three lines in the game?

JonTron's involvement in no way affects the gameplay at all.



Ah, I see. You just want to post about your moral authority.

I said me having less fun would be me not buying the game. The person who I am punishing the most if I boycott is myself. I am choosing to not have fun because some piece of crap was involved in the game.

Jontron makes plenty of money. These little voice acting gigs don't really mean much for his income. He makes his money through methods I purposefully don't partake in.

The developers get people like him involved to build awareness and I am sure they did this before Jontron made who he is public.

What I am saying is, boycotting isn't going to hurt Jontron. It's just going to hurt me. Why punish myself because of him? I guess I could. Rage at the devs? But they made a game that I know I am going to love. And they aren't the ones that said nasty things. Maybe they stand by him. Maybe they don't. Does it matter to me? I just want to have fun. They made something I am knowingly going to have fun with.

I wish we could go back to just talking about games these days instead of focusing on shitheads. The YouTube era has taken a turn for the worse and now we're bit talking a out the hat in time before release because it looks awesome like cuphead. No we're talking about it because a shit stain YouTuber voices acts a few lines in it. Fuck Jontron.

I just want to okay a great game.

 

[Japanmanx3]

.

Wait... What?!

Edit: Until it's explicitly stated that was about Bish from someone up top I'm not assuming anything. As far as I know Bish was working on his comic and is now working on Star Wars with Hennig. If he was guilty of that post then surely he'd be banned. Yet he's not. And he posted at least as recently as late August in his thread for his comic book...

 

[Doctor Ironic]

I feel like if your position on JonTron being in the game is "I don't care, I just want a fun game," then maybe you shouldn't announce that in a thread about informing you that a bad person is in the game and just buy it. I bought Fez but that didn't mean I was obligated to go into every thread about Phil Fish's latest boondoggle and post about how good of a game designer he is, because I'm not naive enough to think that making good games can make your awful behavior okay.

 

[Aroll]

oh we both sides-ing now?

the change we make by boycotting is sending the message that working with white supremacists is unacceptable. it’s really not that difficult to understand

Or they learn that they make a lot more money by not giving a hoot. Remember, trump is president. They very well could sell more copies by openly supporting Jontron.

The only message I want to send to a developer is one that rewards them for making a great game. I am sure they won't have Jontron in the next game. If they do, fine, I'll boycott. Because they made that decision purposefully for that attention.

Right now I'd they boot him, they get to Deal with weeks and weeks of his fans destroying them. If they keep him, they get to deal with threads like this.

Honestly, it's probably less stressful to just keep him in the deal with the backlash. Because while we passionately hate Jontron, we aren't going to go to their Twitter, go to their Facebook profiles, and start screaming from the mountain tops.

Or at least I hope we won't. I try to understand what had to go through their minds here. Not saying anything at all and leaving him in but ensuring they never work with him again is probably the least stressful direction for them.


I know, we all wish everyone would make a moral statement. But they are trying gti launch a game here. They just don't even want to have the conversation, I am guessing.

 

[Finaika]

The only problem I have either people opposing having Jon in the game is how often do they boycott products that terrible people worked on? Dragon Quest is a game series everyone and their mother seem to have played but the composer is a genuinely terrible person but I've never seen threads demanding he be removed or that people should boycott the games.

Wait what's terrible about Sugiyama?

 

[JaseC]

Wait what's terrible about Sugiyama?

No, he and his rich conservative friends instead put money where their mouth is and took out ads in American newspapers discrediting the plight of South Korean comfort women from WW2, while peddling war crime denial revisionist garbage. Fuck Sugiyama. Every cent anyone gives to a Dragon Quest album or concert ticket directly goes towards funding Japanese nationalistic war crime denial garbage.

.

 

[Tagyhag]

It's adorable how they still read GAF, though.

Yeah, you see that a lot in Youtube comments whenever someone here links a video. It's like, get a life dude.

.

Oh lawd, he went full on Punisher.

 

[Finaika]

.

Thanks, missed it.

 

[LoganNotABoganYouKnowIt!!]

Or they learn that they make a lot more money by not giving a hoot. Remember, trump is president. They very well could sell more copies by openly supporting Jontron.

The only message I want to send to a developer is one that rewards them for making a great game. I am sure they won't have Jontron in the next game. If they do, fine, I'll boycott. Because they made that decision purposefully for that attention.

Right now I'd they boot him, they get to Deal with weeks and weeks of his fans destroying them. If they keep him, they get to deal with threads like this.

Honestly, it's probably less stressful to just keep him in the deal with the backlash. Because while we passionately hate Jontron, we aren't going to go to their Twitter, go to their Facebook profiles, and start screaming from the mountain tops.

Or at least I hope we won't. I try to understand what had to go through their minds here. Not saying anything at all and leaving him in but ensuring they never work with him again is probably the least stressful direction for them.


I know, we all wish everyone would make a moral statement. But they are trying gti launch a game here. They just don't even want to have the conversation, I am guessing.

And we all know not upsetting racists is more important than stress.

Edit: that's probably a bit unfair, given what they are known to do. There could be understandable reasons for not wanting to face death threats and such.

But then that's letting them win.

 

[jg4xchamp]

If the game is good I will not care who the voice actor is.

 

[Doctor Ironic]

If the game is good I will not care who the voice actor is.

Would you buy a game featuring the voice talents of Richard Spencer?

 

[duckroll]

I had no idea he was that bad. I feel bad for buying the DQ7 remake when it came out.

No one should feel bad about that. It's just useful to consider what we know about the person moving forward. I'll be so glad when he is no longer a part of the Dragon Quest franchise.

 

[Nitpicker_Red]

I think someone's contribution to a game should be separate from the person's personnal ideologies and actions.
You wouldn't rewrite the lines from a writer who might be outed as a criminal if they were approved beforehand.

Yet I see very clearly why people would like a replacement in this case, since voice acting is closer to a cameo, unseparable from the representation of the person than impersonnal code/writing/art contribution is (and also because of the perceived ease to replace it - he's not integral to the game).
Still, unless you assume the worst from the devs (trial on intent?), if I was looking to buy the game I wouldn't punish the team for not having the budget/time/resources to do such a change.

Or even decide not to do it because that WILL be controversial either way - remember that you are not the only person with an opinion and a voice on the internet, and not the loudest either. Yooka Laylee got a lot of flack for announcing publicly the change - maybe the best way is to apply the change, but not make it a big announcement. After all, if you change it, it's because you don't want people to know about his involvment.

 

[Messofanego]

I noticed in the MFGG link Messofanego posted there was a link to http://mechatheslagtruth.tumblr.com/ which is now been cleared. However, it is still up in the web archive.

https://web.archive.org/web/20150319004929/http://mechatheslagtruth.tumblr.com/

Here's a lengthy post detailing some of Mecha's past.

Thanks for finding the archive for that.

 

[Nanashrew]

On the topic of Hat in Time, I'm a part of their core demographic they're aiming at. And JonTron just puts me off of purchasing it.

 

[Layell]

I wonder if they kept him in the game, but allow the player to kill him, compromise enough?

 

[Nairume]

Yooka Laylee got a lot of flack for announcing publicly the change - maybe the best way is to apply the change.

From awful people sure.

When you people keep framing it as "well somebody is going to get mad either way, why change course?" just remember that, when trying to pick between angering hateful racist assholes and angering decent people, it really shouldn't be a hard choice.