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Hat in Time releases in 2 days, yet JonTron still seems to be in the game

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Blam

Member
Aw, that's cute. Very excited for Odyssey! I'm thankful that I don't need to rely on A Hat in Time for my 3D platforming fix and can safely wait that one out.

Yeah InuStar makes some pretty great avatars.

You were banned for the following posts:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=158877766&postcount=2850
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=198657596&postcount=109
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=200893120&postcount=64
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=217264230
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=233110518 (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=233111488 http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=233112162&postcount=572)

Please note that the third last ban is for saying you don't care about a video examining a social justice issue, the second last ban is for getting mad at people for not liking Sugiyama's politics, and the last ban is for having an absolute fucking meltdown about people not liking Palmer Luckey.

Choose your next reply wisely.

God damn the mods be out for blood.

Damn, didn't know the developers of A Hat In Time, Mecha the Slag (Jonas Kærlev), had their own dark past.

180

http://tumblr.maxofs2d.net/post/134320977352/amp
https://forums.mfgg.net/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=14657&start=20


Wow...
 
This makes sense. And as a result no one should be judging anyone else for where they place their own personal barriers.

Having skimmed this thread I assume there's a little of this going on from both sides? Or is it mostly people being criticised just for saying they're avoiding this game?

It's a lot of people dropping in to say, if you have ever consumed any problematic product than you should have no problem buying this game too.
 

Ishan

Junior Member
Can someone provide me with a summary so far ?

I'm aware of the Jon tron thing and his subsequent video trying to address it etc

From what I can make out the devs have not commented on it so far ?

Anyone with legal expertise chimed in on what removal of his voice etc would be in regards to his contract ?
 

Maffis

Member
Well I think it's pretty easy to see why they haven't said anything. They are 8 developers, that have been working on this game for over 5 years. Who knows how their financial plan looks like by now? Knowing how the Cuphead team almost got bankrupted it's understandable that they don't want to risk hitting up a shitstorm so close to release.

Sadly the Jontron fanbase are pretty vocal people and probably lots of GamerGaters are in there. Removing his voice would start such a massive shitstorm with deaththreats, reviewbombing and other vile stuff. They are only 8 people, which could be so easy to track down and even target them IRL. It's not worth it. It's not right to do, but sadly I don't think anyone in a situation like them would do differently. I'm pretty sure they regret having him in there in the end.

It's great what Playtonic did. But they are also 3 times more people and they had waaaay more money and they made Yooka-Laylee in 2 years. It was not a big as gamble for them as it was for Gears for Breakfast.

I would be really really mad if a big million-dollar team just stayed silent. They at least have the money and marketing to help them out.
 

kliklik

Banned
if we are all ok using electronics that are made by foxcon using components farmed under the most inhumane conditions, i think its ok to play this game.

What was that saying again we all learned in kindergarten? Two wrongs make everything ok and you can stop worrying if anything is morally problematic? Ya, that sounds familiar.
 

L Thammy

Member
Can someone provide me with a summary so far ?

I'm aware of the Jon tron thing and his subsequent video trying to address it etc

From what I can make out the devs have not commented on it so far ?

Anyone with legal expertise chimed in on what removal of his voice etc would be in regards to his contract ?

My understanding of everything that's come up in this thread is:

- Some time in the distant past, the game designer (project lead?) of this game was part of some drama at Mario Fan Games Galaxy, wherein he created a hate/dox site for a particular person.
- JonTron is a popular YouTube gaming personality with a noted taste for 3D platformers.
- JonTron pays Gears for Breakfast to appear in their 3D platformer.
- JonTron starts spouting white supremacist rhetoric, as in straight up Neo-Nazi ethnic purity shit instead of your everyday racism, and stops producing gaming content.
- Gears of Breakfast does not respond, even when sent e-mails on the situation.

I feel like I'm forgetting some other detail, but that seems to be most of it. So the notable thing is that nothing happened; the developers haven't incriminated themselves or anything, but they also haven't been prudent about distancing themselves from a nearby dumpster fire.

No idea what the legal situation is.
 
My understanding of everything that's come up in this thread is:

- Some time in the distant past, the game designer (project lead?) of this game was part of some drama at Mario Fan Games Galaxy, wherein he created a hate/dox site for a particular person.
- JonTron is a popular YouTube gaming personality with a noted taste for 3D platformers.
- JonTron pays Gears for Breakfast to appear in their 3D platformer.
- JonTron starts spouting white supremacist rhetoric, as in straight up Neo-Nazi ethnic purity shit instead of your everyday racism, and stops producing gaming content.
- Gears of Breakfast does not respond, even when sent e-mails on the situation.

I feel like I'm forgetting some other detail, but that seems to be most of it. So the notable thing is that nothing happened; the developers haven't incriminated themselves or anything, but they also haven't been prudent about distancing themselves from a nearby dumpster fire.

No idea what the legal situation is.

Wait, JonTron paid the devs so he could be in the game, not the other way around?

Well in that case, no wonder they aren't removing him! They probably aren't allowed to without forking over money to JonTron for breach of contract. (That would be ironic—they remove the game's association but end up helping Jon financially.)
 

kliklik

Banned
My understanding of everything that's come up in this thread is:

- Some time in the distant past, the game designer (project lead?) of this game was part of some drama at Mario Fan Games Galaxy, wherein he created a hate/dox site for a particular person.

The person he allegedly created the dox site for was a former employee of his who quit and asked that his work no longer be used.

He also allegedly blackmailed someone, and allegedly scammed some people out of money. None of these claims have been proven in court and all have been posted on sites anonymously and sometimes secondhand.

It's really difficult to weigh these claims when you don't have a personal connection to verify that they're true. It's a bit different than JonTron being recorded on his views so we know for sure he actually did the thing. Then again, actually harming people is arguably more serious than having hateful views.
 
Wait, JonTron paid the devs so he could be in the game, not the other way around?

Well in that case, no wonder they aren't removing him! They probably aren't allowed to without forking over money to JonTron for breach of contract. (That would be ironic—they remove the game's association but end up helping Jon financially.)

I don't think he paid to be in the game.

He volunteered to be in Yooka-Laylee
 

L Thammy

Member
Wait, JonTron paid the devs so he could be in the game, not the other way around?

Well in that case, no wonder they aren't removing him! They probably aren't allowed to without forking over money to JonTron for breach of contract. (That would be ironic—they remove the game's association but end up helping Jon financially.)

Yeah, I think that's a real possibility, I don't want to say that removing the voice is easy because I don't know the circumstances.

I find it hard to imagine a situation where they can't just say that they don't support JonTron's views though. And we can see from the Steam forms that there are people on that side who are also taking silence as an endorsement - who are viewing this as the opposite statement of Yooka-Laylee.


EDIT: I'm actually not 100% sure how the payment situation is here. Tried googling to confirm but most of the sites I'm seeing are some nasty shit.
 

Mesoian

Member
I am heavily invested in 3d platformers, because they are my favourite genre and only now, through indies, are they trying to make a comeback, after years of absence outside of Nintendo.

I have backed Yookay-Laylee, I would have bought it otherwise, no matter if Jontron was in there or not, I have not badmouthed Yooka-Laylee in any way, neither when it was looking like Jontron was staying in there, nor when he was out (granted, I was banned when the result came up, but since you had a look into my posting history: Do you see anything afterwards where you suspect I had a grudge against the developers of the game? If you feel unsure about it, I have the same name on the Playtonic forum, there you can see my immediate reaction). I really do not understand what you want to insinuate here. I am really feeling a bit at a loss here, because it is quite difficult to be told you are being seen as dubious when you are exactly saying what you feel and think. It would really be helpful if you could tell me, here or in private, what you suspect of me so I can better address this in my further posting behaviour. I hope, at the very least, if your suspicion was that I was secretly rooting for Jontron to be in this or any game at all, I could clear this up.

I mean, you are going above and beyond to use honeyed words in order to say, "I don't care that this game is rubbing elbows with white supremacy because I just want to play video games and don't care about anything else."

Because that's your position. You don't care, but you don't want to say "I don't care" because that sounds callous. It's not an uncommon stance either.

But you understand there's something wrong with saying, I don't care, even though you know you don't care.
 

TDLink

Member
Are we still supposed to take posters claiming they have no idea who jontron is seriously or can we put them with the people who totally don't even know what this gameygate thing even is?

Believe it or not, not everyone out there is aware of all of the YouTubers/"Influencers" out there. I'm slightly too old to have grown up with the "YouTube" generation and really have only a slight familiarity with several streamers. Specifically I've heard of a few of them/are aware of them but don't know much beyond that.

When I watch stuff like the EA press conference and there's 20 something YouTube "celebrities" playing the game... I am at a complete loss. I have no idea who these random people are or why they're popular.

In the far past I watched the Angry Nintendo/Video Game Nerd (James Rolfe). And I enjoy the skits Mega64 do. Recently I've started watching fighting game stuff being put out by "Maximillian Dood" also. I think he gives some really good coverage.

Beyond that I'm aware of Pewdiepie (and was before his own awful comments) and iJustine (only because gaming conferences keep mentioning/utilizing her). I think Ubisoft had a guy on named Toby, right?

Other than that I'm basically at a loss.

I had heard of Game Grumps but had no idea what it really was. Or what JonTron was/is until he was brought up recently in Y-L and AHiT threads (after the comments).

I don't think I'm alone here. And I think it's wrong to expect that everyone is familiar with any given YouTube star, even if you are intimately.
 

L Thammy

Member
Believe it or not, not everyone out there is aware of all of the YouTubers/"Influencers" out there. I'm slightly too old to have grown up with the "YouTube" generation and really have only a slight familiarity with several streamers. Specifically I've heard of a few of them/are aware of them but don't know much beyond that.

When I watch stuff like the EA press conference and there's 20 something YouTube "celebrities" playing the game... I am at a complete loss. I have no idea who these random people are or why they're popular.

In the far past I watched the Angry Nintendo/Video Game Nerd (James Rolfe). And I enjoy the skits Mega64 do. Recently I've started watching fighting game stuff being put out by "Maximillian Dood" also. I think he gives some really good coverage.

Beyond that I'm aware of Pewdiepie (and was before his own awful comments) and iJustine (only because gaming conferences keep mentioning/utilizing her). I think Ubisoft had a guy on named Toby, right?

Other than that I'm basically at a loss.

I had heard of Game Grumps but had no idea what it really was. Or what JonTron was/is until he was brought up recently in Y-L and AHiT threads (after the comments).

I don't think I'm alone here. And I think it's wrong to expect that everyone is familiar with any given YouTube star, even if you are intimately.

It bugs me a little when people immediately assume that the person who is just asking questions has an ulterior motive, because if they can't get information from people who have good intentions then the people who don't are always eager to tell their story.

When people are just playing dumb, it usually becomes apparent quickly that they don't actually want answers. They suddenly seem very well informed, or repeat an argument that you've heard a million times before, often using the exact same comparisons. I think it's worthwhile to wait until their second post before dismissing them completely.
 
Believe it or not, not everyone out there is aware of all of the YouTubers/"Influencers" out there. I'm slightly too old to have grown up with the "YouTube" generation and really have only a slight familiarity with several streamers. Specifically I've heard of a few of them/are aware of them but don't know much beyond that.

When I watch stuff like the EA press conference and there's 20 something YouTube "celebrities" playing the game... I am at a complete loss. I have no idea who these random people are or why they're popular.

In the far past I watched the Angry Nintendo/Video Game Nerd (James Rolfe). And I enjoy the skits Mega64 do. Recently I've started watching fighting game stuff being put out by "Maximillian Dood" also. I think he gives some really good coverage.

Beyond that I'm aware of Pewdiepie (and was before his own awful comments) and iJustine (only because gaming conferences keep mentioning/utilizing her). I think Ubisoft had a guy on named Toby, right?

Other than that I'm basically at a loss.

I had heard of Game Grumps but had no idea what it really was. Or what JonTron was/is until he was brought up recently in Y-L and AHiT threads (after the comments).

I don't think I'm alone here. And I think it's wrong to expect that everyone is familiar with any given YouTube star, even if you are intimately.

Yeah, the Youtuber/influencer stuff in videogame press conferences are really cringe-worthy. Toby was a one-off, and then he disappeared from public consciousness after the sexual assault allegations.
 

Peltz

Member
My understanding of everything that's come up in this thread is:

- Some time in the distant past, the game designer (project lead?) of this game was part of some drama at Mario Fan Games Galaxy, wherein he created a hate/dox site for a particular person.
- JonTron is a popular YouTube gaming personality with a noted taste for 3D platformers.
- JonTron pays Gears for Breakfast to appear in their 3D platformer.
- JonTron starts spouting white supremacist rhetoric, as in straight up Neo-Nazi ethnic purity shit instead of your everyday racism, and stops producing gaming content.
- Gears of Breakfast does not respond, even when sent e-mails on the situation.

I feel like I'm forgetting some other detail, but that seems to be most of it. So the notable thing is that nothing happened; the developers haven't incriminated themselves or anything, but they also haven't been prudent about distancing themselves from a nearby dumpster fire.

No idea what the legal situation is.

Sorry, I'm just entering the thread.... there's a legal situation?
 

TDLink

Member
Yeah, the Youtuber/influencer stuff in videogame press conferences are really cringe-worthy. Toby was a one-off, and then he disappeared from public consciousness after the sexual assault allegations.

See, I didn't even know this. Actually I knew nothing about Toby apart from his presence at that conference. Do all of these YouTubers have skeletons in their closet like this? Because it seems that way. And I can't say it's making me yearn for having been more "into" this trend of watching YouTubers.
 

mdubs

Banned
Believe it or not, not everyone out there is aware of all of the YouTubers/"Influencers" out there. I'm slightly too old to have grown up with the "YouTube" generation and really have only a slight familiarity with several streamers. Specifically I've heard of a few of them/are aware of them but don't know much beyond that.

When I watch stuff like the EA press conference and there's 20 something YouTube "celebrities" playing the game... I am at a complete loss. I have no idea who these random people are or why they're popular.

In the far past I watched the Angry Nintendo/Video Game Nerd (James Rolfe). And I enjoy the skits Mega64 do. Recently I've started watching fighting game stuff being put out by "Maximillian Dood" also. I think he gives some really good coverage.

Beyond that I'm aware of Pewdiepie (and was before his own awful comments) and iJustine (only because gaming conferences keep mentioning/utilizing her). I think Ubisoft had a guy on named Toby, right?

Other than that I'm basically at a loss.

I had heard of Game Grumps but had no idea what it really was. Or what JonTron was/is until he was brought up recently in Y-L and AHiT threads (after the comments).

I don't think I'm alone here. And I think it's wrong to expect that everyone is familiar with any given YouTube star, even if you are intimately.

This is fair, but a lot of this is really just a google search away since it was covered extensively.

It's really no surprise that public perception of streamers seems to be quite low because the only time they really cross into the public consciousness in a big way is if they are racists like JonTron or Pewdiepie.
 

TheChaos

Member
In other news, it comes out tomorrow and is sitting on a grant total of one review at Opencritic. Sounds like nobody actually cares about the game itself.
 

L Thammy

Member
Sorry, I'm just entering the thread.... there's a legal situation?

Some people have suggested that maybe they legally can't remove JonTron's voice, but that's just conjecture. There's no real reason to believe there is or isn't one right now.
 

Toxi

Banned
In other news, it comes out tomorrow and is sitting on a grant total of one review at Opencritic. Sounds like nobody actually cares about the game itself.
Shame. I'm not a huge fan of 3D platformers, but I know a lot of people adore the genre.
 

Dyle

Member
Man Super Mario Odyssey is really dominating the 3D platformer with hats as a core mechanic genre

Silence is not a good look, they should really say something, anything, about this
 

Zubz

Banned
Some people have suggested that maybe they legally can't remove JonTron's voice, but that's just conjecture. There's no real reason to believe there is or isn't one right now.

Yup. I'd be willing to forgive them for this if they even just said "We are contractually obliged to leave our voice actors in our game." Don't need to expressly identify him, don't need to remove him. The problem is, they haven't even said that.
 
I find it hard to imagine a situation where they can't just say that they don't support JonTron's views though. And we can see from the Steam forms that there are people on that side who are also taking silence as an endorsement - who are viewing this as the opposite statement of Yooka-Laylee.

It's lose-lose situation for developer - either he loses customers from not removing JonTron or he loses customers (from other side of spectrum) for removing him.

Silence might be easiest solution for them since some people on both sides will give them benefit of doubt (they are afraid of harassment/they support us quietly type of thinking.)
 

L Thammy

Member
It's lose-lose situation for developer - either he loses customers from not removing JonTron or he loses customers (from other side of spectrum) for removing him.

Silence might be easiest solution for them since some people on both sides will give them benefit of doubt (they are afraid of harassment/they support us quietly type of thinking.)

Read that post again.

I find it hard to imagine a situation where they can't just say that they don't support JonTron's views though.

is not

I find it hard to imagine a situation where they can't remove JonTron.

They're definitely in a bad position, but "we're not nazis" is something that even racists are often willing to say when they have to.
 
Yup. I'd be willing to forgive them for this if they even just said "We are contractually obliged to leave our voice actors in our game." Don't need to expressly identify him, don't need to remove him. The problem is, they haven't even said that.

Yea, it's weird. I think a lot of us would accept that. Plus the racist crowd would probably be fine with that too.

From watching these people for a while, they're really quick to try and lump people onto their side. I'm sure they'd claim the dev is bs'ing to avoid bad press and to keep Jon in, or something like that.
 
I just thought that might also factor into his hatred towards Jews.

Iran is still the middle-east country (8k-25k) (outside of Israel) where there is the larger jewish community. It can be easily argued that jews are safer in Iran than in Israel, so i don't really understand your point.
I really don't think it's related at all, JonTron is also eastern-european and i guess he identify way more with his european heritage than his iranian one. His political outlook is white supremacy, if he was like khomeinist i could understand, but i'm pretty sure he would be pro-Shah and his family too, hence the hate of Islam.
 

kliklik

Banned
Iran is still the middle-east country (8k-25k) (outside of Israel) where there is the larger jewish community. It can be easily argued that jews are safer in Iran than in Israel, so i don't really understand your point.

This is so inaccurate. 95% of Jews who lived in Iran have since fled, especially since the revolution in 1979. The Jewish community is nearly completely destroyed. A number of Jews who didn't get out were rounded up and executed by the government, accusing them of being "spies" and being at war with Allah. Many Iranians (Jewish or otherwise) feel pressure to pay lipservice to the government so that they don't get in trouble; the government has a history of assassination attempts on those who have criticised their laws and rule (including Nobel Prize winner Shirin Ebadi).

And this didn't just start after the revolution. If I remember rightly from reading Persepolis and Iran Awakening, before this, Jews were even forbidden from going out when it was raining because of the fear that water may touch a Jew and bounce off and hit a Muslim. Since Jews were considered Unclean, this would contaminate the Muslim. Forced conversions and massacres were common. And after, during WWII, the Iranian govt provided financial support to the Nazi Party and imported anti-Semitic Nazi propaganda.

If I recall right from reading modern reports, you can still buy Mein Kampf and The Protocols of the Elders of Zion easily in Iranian shops today.

Characterising Iran as a safe place for anyone to express their beliefs and live free of abuse and harassment is pretty astonishing. I'd wager that even Muslims are safer in Israel than in Iran. Please let's not whitewash the various Iranian regimes that have oppressed their people of all creeds.

I think it is fair to say that JonTron's Iranian background might have exposed him to anti-Semitic beliefs.
 
See, I didn't even know this. Actually I knew nothing about Toby apart from his presence at that conference. Do all of these YouTubers have skeletons in their closet like this? Because it seems that way. And I can't say it's making me yearn for having been more "into" this trend of watching YouTubers.
Youtubers are like the new celebrities. So the same stuff happens. They get too much with their fans in a position of power, and especially for male celebs, bad shit goes down.
 

TDLink

Member
Youtubers are like the new celebrities. So the same stuff happens. They get too much with their fans in a position of power, and especially for male celebs, bad shit goes down.

I'm not convinced of that at all. They seem to burn out much much faster and they're all very niche compared to film and television stars. Even Pewdiepie, one of the few with actual fairly large international recognition, pales in comparison to starring actors.

People do seem to be making a big deal out of "Influencers" in the industry right now, but their longevity has to still be proven.

And while some actual Celebrities do end up having skeletons in their closet, it's definitely few and far between. Most have no problems at all, or their problems are self-effecting like an addiction of some sort. With YouTubers it seems to be a much higher percentage.
 

Lulubop

Member
Never caught a ban, no.

I'm usually not on a side on these things.

29-Camron-NP.gif


You were banned for the following posts:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=158877766&postcount=2850
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=198657596&postcount=109
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=200893120&postcount=64
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=217264230
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=233110518 (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=233111488 http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=233112162&postcount=572)

Please note that the third last ban is for saying you don't care about a video examining a social justice issue, the second last ban is for getting mad at people for not liking Sugiyama's politics, and the last ban is for having an absolute fucking meltdown about people not liking Palmer Luckey.

Choose your next reply wisely.

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