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[Tom Nook Sawyer]

I'm sure the boycotting will be like wildfire for KH3...or not

I seriously doubt we'd see anything close to this--or at all, for KH3. The reason(s) as to why that is could make for a good topic by itself.

 

[Koobion]

I seriously doubt we'll see anything close to this--or at all, for KH3. The reason(s) as to why that is could make for a good topic by itself

Oh I totally agree. I don't think it will make a dent. I was being sarcastic, haha.

 

[Tom Nook Sawyer]

Oh I totally agree. I don't think it will make a dent. I was being sarcastic, haha.

Ha, I thought you might have been! Glad we agree

 

[NoHeDidn't]

I'd think it's mostly to avoid what happened to Playtonic when they announced that they took out JonTron. The alt-right is extremely loud.

So are my nieces and nephews and they dont get what they want for throwing loud ass tantrums.Anyway it works both ways they shouldnt leave him in to please the small loud contigent of people.

 

[Operationgamer17]

I seriously doubt we'd see anything close to this--or at all, for KH3. The reason(s) as to why that is could make for a good topic by itself.

Oh really?

 

[CannonFodder52]

If I enjoyed the game I played, then no, Pence being in (as much as I dislike him) as a minor voice actor role wouldn't be enough for me to give the game a negative review. I think it makes much more sense to not buy the game period.

Although not enough, it would affect your experience? Obviously this effect could be larger depending on the player, right. Some people have much stronger responses to stuff.

Also I believe poster you are talking about already backed it before this was revealed.

My point is, I'm not sure this qualifies as review bombing, if the individual didn't enjoy the game due to this.

 

[PSqueak]

I hope that everyone boycotting Hat in Time is also boycotting Kingdom Hearts III for featuring the disgusting asshat that is James Woods, right?

This post made me realized that every single KH game i have beaten was borrowed so i have never actually paid for the KH franchise.

 

[Tom Nook Sawyer]

Oh really?

Do you disagree? I'd be happy to be proven wrong about that

 

[Spinosaurus]

Damn, didn't know the developers of A Hat In Time, Mecha the Slag (Jonas Kærlev), had their own dark past.

http://tumblr.maxofs2d.net/post/134320977352/amp
https://forums.mfgg.net/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=14657&start=20

Wow, was willing to give them the benefit of the doubt regarding this, but the guy sounds like a real shithead.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

It's a few lines of dialogue for a few random NPCs in the game, recorded years before JonTron was outed as a racist. Considering this is a small indie team, it makes sense they might not want to throw away already recorded dialogue just to satisfy the small contingent of people who boycott anything JonTron has touched.

It makes me think twice about the morals of a small, indie team.

 

[NHarmonic.]

People only need one simple reason to make the conscious decision to not buy a game. It looks too easy or too derivative or it costs too much may spark differing opinions but not often does it result in the punishing the devs narrative. Let the company's questionable stance in regard to a white supremacist be a valid reason for a person to say I don't want this as it would for any other reason.

Pretty much. If you go to any thread, you can see comments like "too anime for me, i'm out", "i really don't like turn based, this isn't for me" or "the characters are awful, not buying this", but suddenly, it's wrong to not support a game because JonTron, shithead by definition, provides voice for a character, and the devs don't even address it.

For the really important stuff people act in the childest possible way, grow up guys.

 

[Shadow Broker]

I seriously doubt we'd see anything close to this--or at all, for KH3. The reason(s) as to why that is could make for a good topic by itself.

What's going on with KH3?

 

[Operationgamer17]

Do you disagree? I'd be happy to be proven wrong about that

I’m not saying I agree or disagree. I was referring to the reasons why it would make a good topic.

 

[PaulloDEC]

So are my nieces and nephews and they dont get what they want for throwing loud ass tantrums.Anyway it works both ways they shouldnt leave him in to please the small loud contigent of people.

The difference in this case is that your livelihood doesn't depend on the happiness of your nieces and nephews. I imagine right now the developers are taking the stance that the best way to not sabotage their sales is to just say and do nothing.

While I don't agree with that approach from a moral/ethical stance, I understand why they'd do it from a business perspective. They've spent five years of their lives making the thing, and it's probably pretty important to them that it makes some money.

If they were smart, they would've removed Jon from the game ages ago and most of the shitstorm would've blown over by now.

 

[Sponge]

Damn, didn't know the developers of A Hat In Time, Mecha the Slag (Jonas Kærlev), had their own dark past.

http://tumblr.maxofs2d.net/post/134320977352/amp
https://forums.mfgg.net/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=14657&start=20

Oh wow on finding that thread. I had no clue MFGG was still even around.

 

[Tom Nook Sawyer]

I'm not saying I agree or disagree. I was referring to the reasons why it would make a good topic.

I think it'd be interesting to tease out what it is that differentiates boycotting an indie title versus one with an active fanbase, despite both potentially sharing similar issues. Perhaps not as a topic, but as an examination at the least.

 

[Koobion]

Ha, I thought you might have been! Glad we agree

Me too! And your thread idea would be really interesting. I would love to see the reasoning why someone would boycott A Hat in Time for having someone in it who harbors such disturbing views, and not boycott KH3 for also having someone with disturbing views. I imagine that reasoning would often be that they weren't that interested in A Hat in Time anyway, and KH3 is too big to pass up. So much for values, lol.

 

[Tom Nook Sawyer]

Me too! And your thread idea would be really interesting. I would love to see the reasoning why someone would boycott A Hat in Time for having someone in it who harbors such disturbing views, and not boycott KH3 for also having someone with disturbing views. I imagine that reasoning is that they weren't that interested in A Hat in Time anyway, and KH3 is too big to pass up. So much for values, lol.

Indeed; it's really easy to boycott something you're already not interested or invested in

 

[oni-link]

I seriously doubt we'd see anything close to this--or at all, for KH3. The reason(s) as to why that is could make for a good topic by itself.

Make the thread, it's an interesting topic

 

[Stalwart]

I've since changed my opinion from back when Yooka-Laylee came out but I'll still be getting this as I've been waiting a good 4 years or so for it. Wouldn't be surprised if they don't make a statement.

 

[Axass]

Instead of trying to sabotage a perfectly fine game, created by what are probably perfectly nice human beings, which are now probably scared of what's happening and caught between a rock and a hard place, you guys would better spend your time trying to sabotage the actual racist moronic guy and the channels from which he spouts nonsense.

He has already been paid for his performance, by buying the game you're not funneling your money to the white supremacists and condoning their views, just like you aren't condoning or supporting underage rape by watching Polanski's movies.

By proposing absurd crap, like banning the game from GAF, you're not hurting Jontron. You're only hurting the poor devs who didn't know any better and are stuck in this terrible situation, we're not talking about Hatred and those loli gory games or whatever they were: those may be seen as an active threat to society and thus banned... but not a mere jolly platformer.

That said, a message from the devs where they distance themselves from his views would be nice, if anything.

 

[Vimes]

I seriously doubt we'd see anything close to this--or at all, for KH3. The reason(s) as to why that is could make for a good topic by itself.

Indeed; it's really easy to boycott something you're already not interested or invested in

See this:

Jontron is part of the game. He is only in the game because he's Jontron. He's there so people will say "oh wow that's Jontron, I heard he's in the game. I like Jontron."

Not saying you don't have a point (re: established AAA vs new indies), but the context isn't as close as you're insinuating. I still love Halo ODST despite Adam Baldwin being in there (though that character sure as shit grates in a way he didn't before).

 

[Poltergust]

Make the thread, it's an interesting topic

That should probably wait until it is confirmed whether or not James Woods is voicing Hades in KH3.

 

[Cerium]

Instead of trying to sabotage a perfectly fine game, created by what are probably perfectly nice human beings

You should probably read the whole thread before you reply.

 

[Messofanego]

Instead of trying to sabotage a perfectly fine game, created by what are probably perfectly nice human beings, which are now probably scared of what's happening and caught between a rock and a hard place, you guys would better spend your time trying to sabotage the actual racist moronic guy and the channels from which he spouts nonsense.

He has already been paid for his performance, by buying the game you're not funneling your money to the white supremacists and condoning their views, just like you aren't condoning or supporting underage rape by watching Polanski's movies.

By proposing absurd crap, like banning the game from GAF, you're not hurting Jontron. You're only hurting the poor devs who didn't know any better and are stuck in this terrible situation, we're not talking about Hatred and those loli gory games or whatever they were: those may be seen as an active threat to society and thus banned... but not a mere jolly platformer.

That said, a message from the devs where they distance themselves from his views would be nice, if anything.

Well, one of the developers of A Hat In Time isn't "perfectly nice"...he has a history of being a con man and abuser.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=250844759#post250844759

 

[oni-link]

That should probably wait until it is confirmed whether or not James Woods is voicing Hades in KH3.

Maybe, but no one talked about boycotting KH1.5 and 2.5 on PS4 as far as I can remember

Both those games and A Hat in Time hired these people presumably before the devs were aware they were knobheads, so it's still an interesting topic

 

[PSlayer]

So are my nieces and nephews and they dont get what they want for throwing loud ass tantrums.Anyway it works both ways they shouldnt leave him in to please the small loud contigent of people.

Bad analogy imo. Your nieces and nephews don't spend their whole day spreading ideas through memes on the internet and they probably don't have money to buy things by themselves so they can't hurt devs by "voting with their wallet".

One of the biggest illusions that a place like Neogaf creates in the mind of their users is that the Gamergate types are some form of small minority that can just be ignored, when in fact they are a big demographic(just go to any other video game site forum and you can see that this "left-wing gamming liberal atmosphere" is almost exclusive from here) and they can create bad word of mouth by tanking a game score on steam reviews or spreading negative memes everywhere.

I can totally understand why would a small team try to avoid such shitstorm.

 

[Cerium]

Maybe, but no one talked about boycotting KH1.5 and 2.5 on PS4 as far as I can remember

Both those games and A Hat in Time hired these people presumably before the devs were aware they were knobheads, so it's still an interesting topic

These devs have been aware at least since March, when the Yooka-Laylee thing blew up and people were asking them about it on social media.

 

[Professor Lexicovermis]

Forget this childish nonsense that I posted earlier. I got too worked up.

My sincere apologies.

 

[JStein0222]

Damn, didn't know the developers of A Hat In Time, Mecha the Slag (Jonas Kærlev), had their own dark past.

http://tumblr.maxofs2d.net/post/134320977352/amp
https://forums.mfgg.net/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=14657&start=20

Thank you for posting this. I had no idea.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

Instead of trying to sabotage a perfectly fine game, created by what are probably perfectly nice human beings, which are now probably scared of what's happening and caught between a rock and a hard place, you guys would better spend your time trying to sabotage the actual racist moronic guy and the channels from which he spouts nonsense.

What rock and a hard place? Simply take him out of the game. That's literally all they would need to do.

 

[Sai-kun]

Maybe, but no one talked about boycotting KH1.5 and 2.5 on PS4 as far as I can remember

Both those games and A Hat in Time hired these people presumably before the devs were aware they were knobheads, so it's still an interesting topic

Both the articles posted are less than half a year old...pretty late to get awareness for a boycott half a year after a game releases.

 

[Two Pikachus]

Feel like this needs to be said again.

I don't think that's fair. When I was a youtuber I genuinely cared about the people who took the time to leave comments and tried to engage with me. I felt a sense of honour in people coming to see me play video games and talk about sundry. I didn't see them as ad revenue. These aren't corporations we're talking about. These are real people.

JonTron just happens to be a garbage person.

 

[kamineko]

One of the biggest illusions that a place like Neogaf creates in the mind of their users is that the Gamergate types are some form of small minority that can just be ignored

How did you arrive at this assessment? One of the biggest illusions outside of GAF is that we all think the same thing. I don't hear what you're saying very often. Lots of people feel the same way about the value (or lack thereof) of gamergate, but assssment of impact varies by exposure, relationships, etc.

EDIT
And to be clear, I realize you are responding to someone who said that, but I don't know how that is transposed into a shared delusion on a huge site like this

 

[SuperBlank]

I don't think that's fair. When I was a youtuber I genuinely cared about the people who took the time to leave comments and tried to engage with me. I felt a sense of honour in people coming to see me play video games and talk about sundry. I didn't see them as ad revenue. These aren't corporations we're talking about. These are real people.

JonTron just happens to be a garbage person.

Yeah. Never good to paint an entire group with one stroke.

 

[Acorn]

Not supporting anything related to him. Disappointing.

 

[benzopil]

Feel like this needs to be said again.

You think you wrote something genius or what

Lots of youtubes care about their audience. Just like devs care about players (not big publishers, but maybe they do too). You can't make good content, videos or games without being passionate. Without trying to "please" audience, to make them be engaged, to make your content interesting and/or fun.

Some people are just garbage. Don't throw all content makers under one category.

 

[VibratingDonkey]

It's not Gears for Breakfast's fault that Jontron later revealed himself to be garbage, and it's possible there's somehow a valid, understandable reason why he's still in the game. But then they should provide it.
I'm not comfortable supporting a game featuring a white supremacist scumbag, where the developer won't even try to explain why that's something I should be ok with. Have they even condemned Jontron's heinous trash beliefs?

It's just not a great look.

 

[Koobion]

You think you wrote something genius or what

Lots of youtubes care about their audience. Just like devs care about players (not big publishers, but maybe they do too). You can't make good content, videos or games without being passionate. Without trying to "please" audience, to make them be engaged, to make your content interesting and/or fun.

Some people are just garbage. Don't throw all content makers under one category.

Amen to that. It's pretty ridiculous to quote oneself and just repost what they said, as if they're teaching some kind of lesson. How conceited.

I wholeheartedly believe that there are plenty of YouTubers who care about their audience. The expression of that caring is so often provided in endless thanks, meetups, etc. Let's just ignore stuff like that and pretend they're not humans too.

 

[Professor Lexicovermis]

I don't think that's fair. When I was a youtuber I genuinely cared about the people who took the time to leave comments and tried to engage with me. I felt a sense of honour in people coming to see me play video games and talk about sundry. I didn't see them as ad revenue. These aren't corporations we're talking about. These are real people.

JonTron just happens to be a garbage person.

You think you wrote something genius or what

Lots of youtubes care about their audience. Just like devs care about players (not big publishers, but maybe they do too). You can't make good content, videos or games without being passionate. Without trying to "please" audience, to make them be engaged, to make your content interesting and/or fun.

Some people are just garbage. Don't throw all content makers under one category.

I admit. I was far too general. My apologies. I tend to get too fired up in topics like these and make ill-advised posts. I've deleted the offending text. Again, I apologize.

Spoiler

And no, I don't consider myself nor my posts genius. I'm actually quite foolish.

 

[CannonFodder52]

You think you wrote something genius or what

Lots of youtubes care about their audience. Just like devs care about players (not big publishers, but maybe they do too). You can't make good content, videos or games without being passionate. Without trying to "please" audience, to make them be engaged, to make your content interesting and/or fun.

Some people are just garbage. Don't throw all content makers under one category.

Sure, but an okay takeaway would be, not to assume a Youtuber is your friend and go to bat for them. Almost all big gaming Youtubers speak to their audience like they are intimate friends and this screws with people psychologically. Obviously some content creators are great people, but be cautious, etc.

 

[Professor Lexicovermis]

Sure, but an okay takeaway would be, not to assume a Youtuber is your friend and go to bat for them. Almost all big gaming Youtubers speak to their audience like they are intimate friends and this screws with people. Obviously some content creators are great people, but be cautious, etc.

This is the point I wanted to make, but I was far too sweeping and general. I apologize for my actions.

 

[WrenchNinja]

Me too! And your thread idea would be really interesting. I would love to see the reasoning why someone would boycott A Hat in Time for having someone in it who harbors such disturbing views, and not boycott KH3 for also having someone with disturbing views. I imagine that reasoning would often be that they weren't that interested in A Hat in Time anyway, and KH3 is too big to pass up. So much for values, lol.

I think it'd be interesting to tease out what it is that differentiates boycotting an indie title versus one with an active fanbase, despite both potentially sharing similar issues. Perhaps not as a topic, but as an examination at the least.

Read these posts:

This honestly hurts me. Sugiyama is a disgusting piece of shit, but by the time I found out about his bullshit, I was already completely enamored with the entire franchise.

This is a completely different scenario. Despite the fact that I've been following A Hat in Time for years, and only didn't donate to its Kickstarter campaign because I was having a rough month at the time, these guys are essentially unproven developers. I have no emotional attachment to their game. I have no trouble throwing my interest in it aside to take a political stance.

But then again, as others have said, you have the right to pick your battles. I certainly wouldn't begrudge anyone who avoids anything Dragon Quest related because of Sugiyama.

That doesn't make someone a hypocrite.

Someone saying "In an ideal world, we would consume stuff that doesn't support bad dudes doing bad stuff, and I've started to divest from some of this stuff, starting with stuff that it's easier for me to divest from because I have less desire for it to begin with" does not make them a hypocrite.

For example, if someone told you "I think people should try to make environmentally conscious decisions, such as not buying a Hummer" and then you learned that they occasionally flew home for Christmas, they wouldn't be a hypocrite either.

I try to not do business with companies and people who I think are a force for bad in the world. I am not perfect at it. I rarely drive and when I do it is a gas efficient hybrid, but I still need to buy from oil companies who support climate change denial. I try to avoid buying from companies who are strongly involved in regressive politics, but there have been cases where we've ordered Papa Johns pizzas for events or something because there aren't any obvious alternatives that meet our needs. I generally try to avoid creative works by people who make public names for themselves from being odious, but I don't always know that they are and on individual cases I need to make a judgment call about their level of involvement with the work, money they're getting from my consumption, and my baseline desire to see or read or watch the work. I could do more, and I try to always be doing more, but I haven't done everything. I'd like to lower my footprint and I take steps to that end, but I still eat meat. I try to mostly buy used clothing, and support union shops, even though it's not always obvious that "ethical" consumption actually results in aggregate social betterment in the garment industry. I do have a phone and a laptop, but I rarely upgrade if I can help it and do investigate the latest developments in CSR and products offering superior ethical sourcing practices when buying. I do programming for a living and so there's some essential tension between my job, my hobbies, and my desire to lower my footprint.

I mention all of these things because I'm not a "hypocrite" for having some complexities or imperfections in the ways I implement my principles. It's okay to make life changes incrementally, it's okay to make easy choices before you have to make hard ones. "Hypocrisy" is almost always a truly stupid allegation to make against somebody.

I don't castigate others for doing more or less than I do, although I encourage all people to try to make good decisions and really, truly disdain people whose approach to life is "I don't give a shit and I don't owe anyone anything". We're our own arbiters, and I would hope that people who want to reduce the level of badness in the world and absolve themselves from culpability in that badness try to take steps to do so. It does make sense to inform people who you think would benefit from information.

If someone is in a thread arguing "Who gives a shit, I think the alt-right is good and whiny baby SJWs should shut up about it #triggered much libs?", that's a lot different to someone saying "Jontron sucks, but I'm still excited for the game and don't really take these things into account", and that's a lot different to someone saying "This dampens my excitement, but I've ultimately decided to buy the game"

As it relates to the thread in question, I don't think A Hat in Time looks all that great on its own. As a result, I wouldn't be pre-ordering or buying it at launch or anything irrespective of anyone's involvement. It is possible I'd check it out, or just collect it, as it comes down in price or if someone buys me a copy or whatever. I haven't thought it through fully myself, so I don't have a huge position. I empathize that the devs are probably caught between a rock and a hard place: remove Jontron and get review bombed, keep Jontron and get criticized for culpability in his weirdo 4chan politics that he can't shut up about. It's a tough call. I don't blame anyone who considers this a disqualifying factor, I don't blame anyone who considers it not a disqualifying factor.

It would seem to me that Brazil's point in comparing the two and talking through his own decision-making process is reasonable, and that he's not undermining anything, he's speaking to the complexities of how humans make decisions.

 

[TriAceJP]

I seem to remember you coming to bat for one these YouTube racist in the past, maybe catching a ban too. I don't really remember, can't look up post history atm.

Never caught a ban, no.

I'm usually not on a side on these things.

 

[RRockman]

Read these posts:

Ah you beat me to the punch. Funny how they were just talking about how the Prof. Was conceited when they were just having a grand ol' time patting each other on the back about sharing an opinion on something that hasn't even been confirmed yet.

 

[Tom Nook Sawyer]

Ah you beat me to the punch. Funny how they were just talking about how the Prof. Was conceited when they were just having a grand ol' time patting each other on the back about sharing an opinion on something that hasn't even been confirmed yet.

Two posts speak for everyone? Those posts were interesting and illuminating, but don't disagree or conflict with anything I've stated. And since when were we not allowed to have an opinion on a possible (and likely) scenario?

Sorry if I don't have a gif primed for this response

 

[themagicalkitsune]

I seriously doubt we'd see anything close to this--or at all, for KH3. The reason(s) as to why that is could make for a good topic by itself.

We've been having that thing going on decades now with Dragon Quest and war crime denier Sugyiama.

It's a shame how a single man can drag down an entire franchise involving lots of good and talented people in the industry.

I've said this before, but I really hope he does not return for DQ XII. Whatever way it takes; they retire him, he dies, it's of no concern to me.

 

[Two Pikachus]

This is the point I wanted to make, but I was far too sweeping and general. I apologize for my actions.

Thank you for being self-aware and taking responsibility!

Unlike some people who may have voice roles in this here video game.

 

[Professor Lexicovermis]

Thank you for being self-aware and taking responsibility!

Unlike some people who may have voice roles in this here video game.

I try to conduct myself in a tactful and professional manner. What I did was childish and idiotic. I appreciate you calling me out!

 

[wildvine47]

Oh yeah, I had forgotten that, even on a show that gets as Crude as Game Grumps, Barry felt the need to censor SEVERAL of Jon's "jokes".

To be fair, Jon wasn't the only one with "jokes" like that. Arin was guilty of it too: https://youtu.be/zPPR8xu90sc?t=337

Not defending Jon, he's a racist shitheap obviously, but it bothers me when people act like Arin was above doing the exact same kind of shitty "jokes".

Wasn't planning on getting Hat in Time before, but I'm definitely not getting it now.