Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
wild has flipped with each expansion release so far, NZoth made everything greedy and patches made everything aggressive. I wonder what it'd take to make everything Midrange.
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Hearthstone |OT8| Elise's Extremely Irresponsible Field Trip To Un'Goro
- Thread starter ZealousD
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wild has flipped with each expansion release so far, NZoth made everything greedy and patches made everything aggressive. I wonder what it'd take to make everything Midrange.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
then we need a word for something between aggro and that kind midrange that has a ton of 6 and 8 drops.
SonicXtreme
Member
reno druid was most definitely a thing when reno first came out
That would be a tempo deck.
I need to start trying to get into a Q&A and ask a question until they see it -- why can't you long-tap or hold the mouse on your deck (or even better, single click to toggle) and look at your own card back?
There are so many card backs, some of them are animated, and yet you can barely see your own. I have basically zero motivation to change my own deck backs because it has so little effect on me.
There are so many card backs, some of them are animated, and yet you can barely see your own. I have basically zero motivation to change my own deck backs because it has so little effect on me.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Tempo is such a funny term in card games, no one can really define it properly but it gets used constantly.
Why is tempo mage called tempo mage for instance, when it's just a bunch of low drops and burn spells. It's an aggro deck more than anything.
Tempo is the act of forgoing card advantage and value to press a winning condition through low to mid cost minion board presence and aggressive spell play.
Aggro is the act of ignoring the opponents board state and maximizing direct damage.
Hearthstone tends to blur the lines more than MTG for example.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
you just described aggro shaman.
Tempo isn't something that replaces aggro or midrange or control. It's not on that spectrum.
It's more on the spectrum with value. So tempo versus value. Not tempo versus midrange/aggro.
I think the "tempo" in something like "tempo mage" or "tempo rogue" is more closely defined as a deck that plays early minions and then uses almost purely removal to control the board afterwords. Not necessarily that weird line between aggro and midrange. When we're talking about hunter people call that deck "hybrid hunter" when it's straddled between aggro and midrange. I don't know if that's a term that has stuck beyond that single class, though.
BananasWithGuns
Member
Bored, so I made this. Kinda miss Reincarnate so this would be cool to have maybe. And maybe aggro wouldn't actually be able to find a way to abuse it.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
but tempo is value. If you sap a 6 drop you gained 4 mana on your opponent at the cost of a card. Value isn't just card advantage.
Reincarnate was really only good for combos. Attaching the effect to an expensive minion seems bad to me.
The Last One
Member
My God, they need to update the game. This meta is so much TRASH. Fucking horrible aggro decks. Yes, I'm salty.
charlequin
Banned
Tempo is the mana equivalent of card advantage, basically. At turn X there's a set total amount of mana you could've spent until that time (ignoring coins/rituals for the moment) and tempo is the measure of how much of that you've spent net improving your own board presence and life total. Good tempo cards are ones that improve your relative position in board or life total for a low cost and that let you efficiently use all your mana each turn. The value goes down over time as your available mana increases and therefore cards become your more valuable resource.
Aggro Shaman is pretty much 100% a tempo deck. The overload burn spells take out your opponent's board or life total while boosting your own Troggs at a discount mana cost. Jade Claws improves your own board while buffing your Pirates. Maelstrom Portal wrecks your opponent's board and gives you a guy. Almost all of its card advantage comes in the form of putting "free" guys on the board.
Disguised Toast with the Patches stats
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sccsXkM56c
Patches is played in 71% of all games at Rank 5 and above.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sccsXkM56c
Patches is played in 71% of all games at Rank 5 and above.
BlackBuzzard
Banned
Trump reviewing his mean streets review on twitch atm.
Gives Grimestreet Smuggler a 4 star then says in the rereview he actually wanted to give it 5 stars.
Gives Grimestreet Smuggler a 4 star then says in the rereview he actually wanted to give it 5 stars.
Grimestreet Smuggler? The 3 mana 2/4?
Lone_Prodigy
Member
I made a janky Reno Dragon Priest the other day and played about 6 games (it was until I won once.)
Either I wouldn't draw Reno, I'd draw minions without Dragon activators, or my hand would be filled with high-mana cards in early-game. I think I only had one "close" game where my opponent went into fatigue.
Having no duplicates can really mess up your curve.
Either I wouldn't draw Reno, I'd draw minions without Dragon activators, or my hand would be filled with high-mana cards in early-game. I think I only had one "close" game where my opponent went into fatigue.
Having no duplicates can really mess up your curve.
BlackBuzzard
Banned
Damn he went ALL IN on the Grimestreet mechanic!
LMAO WHAT! He rated all those cards a 1 and Wickerflame a 2 on the rereview.... ROFL! That's like so off base it's not even funny. Wickerflame is an insane card and sees play in a multitude of Paladin decks. Fact that Paladin decks in general aren't cutting it these days doesn't take away from Wickerflame being good... that's like saying Tirion is a 1 or 2 because in the current meta it doesn't have a big enough impact.
Like on the re-review Trump has almost all of the Warrior/Paladin/Hunter cards rated a 1. That's a terrible scale that you are using.
I don't feel bad for him at all.
He went all in on the rating with no conservative guesses and no real scale he's using. So it's no wonder all of his 5's are now 1's based on his scale. There's hardly any room for his scale for 2-4 ratings.
He is rating cards entirely on "if it's seeing play in this very narrow current meta in Standard". Which is why everything is usually either a 5 or a 1. There's no scale or rating where Drakonid Operative isn't at the top of the scale.
At least three of his hunter picks are going to be in the blast video back-to-back-to-back.
His Don Han'Cho "I can't think of a single aggressive card" will be the video's opener.
He's gonna get crushed.
His scale is also fucking terrible but I'm not going to put him on blast for not understanding how a 5-star scale works.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
People assign different values to the same 1-5 scale. It's not a science. It's opinion.
He essentially plastered a 5-star scale on his original "bad", "has potential", "good" scale. That gave him room to put stuff at 2-4 stars where these middle ranks were essentially how much he hedged a prediction but essentially his scale turned into pretty much nothing but 1's and 5's on a re-review, because he rates cards as essentially "good" or "bad". He even discussed rating things as a 6. And that's the sign of a poor 5-star scale, when you start talking about 0 stars or 6 stars.
Yeah it's an opinion but why have a 5 point scale when you are really just doing "insane" "kinda playable/potential" "not playable" and restricting it to a very narrow meta in Standard constructed play?
Like what if Paladin becomes good in the next rotation and all these Grimey cards get played? Does he go back and change his 1's to 5's? Is he going to put himself on blast twice or revert his blasts because he got it right the first time?
A rating scale that shifts card strength based on meta isn't a good one IMO. It makes no sense that you rate a card like Solia 4 on the re-review (which is about what we have it as too) then when the meta changes and Reno Mage isn't played because of Reno Jackson rotating out, you change it to a 1.
A big part of me wants to put Kripp on blast for predicting Jade Idol was the single most powerful card in the game.
But I mean, I can't, because even though that's an absurd opinion in retrospect, dumbasses would rush into the YouTube comments to tell me I shouldn't have included it because it's a good card and they don't listen to words and things, but I still kind of want to.
But I mean, I can't, because even though that's an absurd opinion in retrospect, dumbasses would rush into the YouTube comments to tell me I shouldn't have included it because it's a good card and they don't listen to words and things, but I still kind of want to.
Nah definitely hold back on the Jade Idol. Like yeah it's not the single most powerful card in the game or even in the set but the power level of that card is very high.
I was watching Dog stream yesterday and he was playing a full combo double Auctioneer Druid deck but ran hardly any Jade cards except a Jade Idol. He would cycle through the entire deck, get his Arcane Giants to 0 and then start pumping out Jade Idols at a super fast rate. The second Auctioneer could potentially summon 6 Jades with a single Innervate in the late game.
Like that deck is unplayable without that single Jade Idol card. It defines that deck. And it's a super fast draw deck that is immune to fatigue with some decent anti aggro tools and cannot be out valued. That's a dangerous deck in the game when Blizzard intends to nerf the burst/aggro/"combo" cards. Of course that deck would not be as good post rotation with stuff like Living Roots/Raven Idol going to fill in for cheap spells that Druid can use with Auctioneer.
I was watching Dog stream yesterday and he was playing a full combo double Auctioneer Druid deck but ran hardly any Jade cards except a Jade Idol. He would cycle through the entire deck, get his Arcane Giants to 0 and then start pumping out Jade Idols at a super fast rate. The second Auctioneer could potentially summon 6 Jades with a single Innervate in the late game.
Like that deck is unplayable without that single Jade Idol card. It defines that deck. And it's a super fast draw deck that is immune to fatigue with some decent anti aggro tools and cannot be out valued. That's a dangerous deck in the game when Blizzard intends to nerf the burst/aggro/"combo" cards. Of course that deck would not be as good post rotation with stuff like Living Roots/Raven Idol going to fill in for cheap spells that Druid can use with Auctioneer.
Yeah I'm not going to. Like I said, it's more about the words he used than the actual card quality. I want to put people on blast for saying things that are blatantly wrong but sadly you can't do that without explaining yourself. In a funny montage video where it just displays the card and the streamer opinion you don't get room for a nuanced critique like that. The wrongness has to be very in your face.
You have to include Reynad for saying Greater Arcane Missile is better than Firelands Portal and Flamestrike.
He was really big on this card when first unveiled. I could see the logic behind it but this card is too swingy on the RNG for its cost.
He was really big on this card when first unveiled. I could see the logic behind it but this card is too swingy on the RNG for its cost.
Yeah Jade Idol is a tough one because many people still consider the most broken card in the game and are calling for a nerf. Mostly because it has the ability to shut down an entire archetype.
I just had 2 arena games in a row against mages. They got Flamestrike and Fireball too. 
When I played mage I wasn't offered Fireball in two consecutive arena runs.
One mage also got Mind Control Potion from a draw/discover card the moment I had an 11-attack minion on board.
Next time I do an arena draft and run, I'd like to ask someone to spectate who usually wins 3+ games. I'm curious if I'm getting unlucky or just making really dumb mistakes (which is likely).
When I played mage I wasn't offered Fireball in two consecutive arena runs.One mage also got Mind Control Potion from a draw/discover card the moment I had an 11-attack minion on board.
Next time I do an arena draft and run, I'd like to ask someone to spectate who usually wins 3+ games. I'm curious if I'm getting unlucky or just making really dumb mistakes (which is likely).
I just had 2 arena games in a row against mages. They got Flamestrike and Fireball too.
One mage also got Mind Control Potion from a draw/discover card the moment I had an 11-attack minion on board.
Next time I do an arena draft and run, I'd like to ask someone to spectate who usually wins 3+ games. I'm curious if I'm getting unlucky or just making really dumb mistakes (which is likely).
Are you using any arena helper?
Playing as paladin, 3 out of 5 arena opponents were mage. This did not make me happy.
Also, the third mage had mana wyrm by turn 3, and firelands portal to make up for the lack of flamestrike/fireball.
I'm not sure how many of each cost card I should have. I imagine it depends on class, as well.
Also, the third mage had mana wyrm by turn 3, and firelands portal to make up for the lack of flamestrike/fireball.
I use this tier list: http://www.heartharena.com/tierlist
I'm not sure how many of each cost card I should have. I imagine it depends on class, as well.
SonicXtreme
Member
just wait until arena is standard only. mage is literally guaranteed to be S tier until the end of time. such a stupid move! just make a 40 card draft you can whittle down to 30 and give a 'if a minion from x tribe is selected increase chance of x tribe cards being given as choices by 10%' would have made arena amazing but noooo, too complicated for the common casual....who plays arena once and then realizes they have no chance against the regulars and never touches the mode again anyway..
Do you have a saved deck list we can take a look? (if you are using their client, it's uploaded automatically.)
No, I'm leery of third-party programs as technically violating ToS, even if it's unlikely they will ever be banned. Blizzard and the Hearthstone team could always change their minds later on.
Fair enough.
One thing with their client though is, it rates a card depending on your previous picks, e.g., if you have very few small minions, it will increase their scores in later picks. Just as a general rule, try to keep ~10 1 to 2-drops, or ~15 1 to 3-drops.
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