• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Help, I'm terrible at: Secret of Mana

maxcriden

Member
Update 9/15

Meant to update this. A couple weeks ago we gave up on the game, which was difficult because we very much enjoyed some aspects of it, but ultimately we felt it was more stressful than fun. Thanks to the tips ITT we beat Spiky Tiger, and then went ahead and got magic and made our way through the fire dungeon area that has no save points, except in the dwarf village beforehand. We got to the boss of the area and got crushed again and reading online and trying to do so a bit ourselves made it clear even with magic we'd have to keep grinding experience to make the boss fight manageable, and it was just stressful and demoralizing and we'd already been through the Spiky Tiger rinse and repeat grind so we decided it just wasn't the game for us. Regardless, thanks again all for the help and we did really enjoy parts of what we played, the game was just overall not well-suited to us.

--

Original Post:

I didn't expect to be making another thread on this same theme so soon after the last, but alas, here we are.

Secret_of_Mana_Box.jpg


Secret of Mana is a game that was recommended to be my many here as a favored gem of the SNES era that is available on Wii VC. I picked it up several months ago but my wife and I only started playing it here and there in the past couple weeks. I haven't played almost any Square games before... I'm not too big on turn-based battles, though, so I thought the ARPG aspect would make this game more accessible. Maybe it's because VC lacks easy access to a manual (which I'm sure I could find online), but we've been having a tough time getting into the game.

The first boss is this random bug thing that absolutely destroys you:

hqdefault.jpg


As far as I can tell it's nearly impossible to hit it without taking forever between hits and just being exceptionally lucky if it doesn't use some of its unavoidable attacks. :/ But, we prevailed and beat it... we got a second party member and started to play in co-op... we made some progress and felt like we were getting a bit better at the game.

Several things are messing us up now, though.

1) We got a third party member who follows us and frequently gets trapped behind stuff but doesn't help in battle at all, even as AI. Maybe AI companions who assist you in battle are not a thing in Gen IV. But, it's more hindrance than help to have him.

2) The reaper. When someone dies they "meet the reaper." Is there a way to bring them back? The game hasn't taught anything like this. Maybe it comes later in the game but it's disheartening to die and not be able to come back and help the other person. In a similar vein, dude #3 takes plenty of damage despite not helping in battle.

3) General advice/gripe questions:

We made our way to the dwarf village which was cool and then up into the haunted forest. Those bear archers do a lot of damage. There seems to be no way to shield yourself from attacks. Like a shield button. Is there anything like this?

Speaking of enemies. The eyes that turn you into a Moogle are maddening. You have to use status changes and while you're frozen doing that you get hit again. Then the Eyes send two bear archers out after you and they start spraying you with arrows. :/

Sometimes random attacks like a magic balloon come out of nowhere and destroy you with no warning or way to evade.

We haven't been doing any grinding for XP but we have been leveling up whenever possible and fighting all enemies we come across pretty much. So I'd say we're about L8/L7 right now. I'm playing as main char. and my wife is playing as female main char.

The inventory is tiny. You can carry 3 chocolates, 3 candies, etc, and you don't seem to get GP very quickly. We can afford way more items but it won't let us carry them. The inventory is also super clunky. And... from what I can tell, so is the combat. It's not so much a "get good" because there's no skill AFAIK, you just wait for your meter to hit 100% then attack, or if you need to attack sooner you do but you just do no damage. The enemies in the area I describe below seem a bit over-leveled compared to where I am in the game. About the inventory, though:

secret_of_mana_snes_menu.jpg


I really have no idea what half this stuff is or how we should be using it. Like, what does the Action Grid do?

I read this over at GameFAQS:

@ Verdandi: The action grid doesn't really matter much for the character you're CONTROLLING, however, it does matter for the characters that you aren't controlling. The far upper left corner will make your CPU characters aggressive and attack all the time, while the far lower right will make you CPU characters stay back from the enemy and not attack. Far lower left will make them attack, then attempt to back away from the enemy. I personally place them in the spot directly below the upper left corner, or the spot directly above the lower left corner. Where you place them on the action grid also will change your weapon's attack strength, only slightly, and by slightly, I mean by 1 or 2 points.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/588646-secret-of-mana/44574381

That does shed a bit of light but I am still moderately confused if I'm using all the systems correctly or correctly at all....

--

We made it through the Haunted Forest to a castle place at the end and then died. But there was no save point in-between so we have do that whole part again which is just kinda tedious. Is there ever an ability to save more often in the game?
 

Hero

Member
I haven't played this game since I was a kid (not to make you feel bad) but don't remember it being near that hard. You know how to charge your physical attack, right? And no blocking, just movement to dodge.
 

Cormano

Member
Attack after you see 100% on your action bar!.

I just finished this on my android phone, and this what I can advice you, always grind your magic it will make every single boss a joke, as soon as you get to a temple and get more mana power, level your magic, the sprite will destroy everything really quick, also level your weapons.
 

Wavebossa

Member
Well for one, the game is actually hard.. very hard.

You can change how the AI acts by making it more aggressive and on the front line (will lower the chance it gets caught lagging).

Reaper, you need to revive them. For the life of me I cannot remember what the item is called but it looks like a blue cup.

For those eyes, stick and move. They can only status change you at the 4 cardinal directions (iirc). A bow here is good.

You need to grind a little. Like I said, the game is very hard. I played with my 2 little brothers back in a time where I wasn't as... cognizant of illegality (emulators). Even with 2 real humans helping me, it was hard.

However, since you do have a human player with you, you can chain spells easily. This will help you defeat boss encounters as chaining spells stops them form attack and adds up the damage (not sure the formula, but its some form cumulative damage) of all spells cast in a chain window.


I would propose watching a TAS run for a demonstration on what chaining looks like.

EDIT: Oh yes, what Cormano said, do not swing until you are 100% on your bar. And utilize weapon charges pre-combat and even in combat.
 
1) We got a third party member who follows us and frequently gets trapped behind stuff but doesn't help in battle at all, even as AI. Maybe AI companions who assist you in battle are not a thing in Gen IV. But, it's more hindrance than help to have him.

2) The reaper. When someone dies they "meet the reaper." Is there a way to bring them back? The game hasn't taught anything like this. Maybe it comes later in the game but it's disheartening to die and not be able to come back and help the other person. In a similar vein, dude #3 takes plenty of damage despite not helping in battle.

3) General advice/gripe questions:

We made our way to the dwarf village which was cool and then up into the haunted forest. Those bear archers do a lot of damage. There seems to be no way to shield yourself from attacks. Like a shield button. Is there anything like this?

Speaking of enemies. The eyes that turn you into a Moogle are maddening. You have to use status changes and while you're frozen doing that you get hit again. Then the Eyes send two bear archers out after you and they start spraying you with arrows. :/

Sometimes random attacks like a magic balloon come out of nowhere and destroy you with no warning or way to evade.

We haven't been doing any grinding for XP but we have been leveling up whenever possible and fighting all enemies we come across pretty much. So I'd say we're about L8/L7 right now. I'm playing as main char. and my wife is playing as female main char.

1) Use the action grid to configure the behaviour of your AI teammates. Default is very passive, set them to aggressive and they are somewhat useful. The will keep getting stuck on things though, that's just how it is.

2) There's an item that revives. Not sure about the english name but it should be close to "Life Water"

3)
No way to shield. You have to avoid attacks manually
You can charge attacks once your weapons are leveled up by holding down the attack button. That's useful, but the combat is supposed to be an active version of "turn based" where the reacharge after an attack is your ATB, basically. Only attack after it's 100% and you hear the sound. Feel free to grind a bit, things will get more managable after you get your first magic.

There is a bit of "get good" involved as positioning and timing is important.
 

Tiktaalik

Member
Secret of Mana is actually pretty hard. The hit detection is flakey and sometimes bad guys can get you into a loop where they're essentially hitting you when you're down endlessly and you can't get up. I've been playing the game recently and my best advice would be to be cautious and strategic with your attacks. Get in there make a solid attack, then back off, wait to be at 100% again, wait until the bad guy gets up and then attack again.

The archers in the Haunted Forest are definitely annoying and those caused some deaths for me. This may be a place where it makes sense to go in, but bail and go back out if you feel like you've made progress, but have used too many health items.

The Cup of Wishes item will bring someone back from the dead.

Certainly ensure you have the best armour. Go to Pandora or Nekos or wherever and buy new clothing, bracelets and hats as you see them. When you buy them the picture of the character they can be used on appears. Then open up the circle menu for that character (Y for you, X for someone else), go to the equip menu item and place it on them. It should show on the top of the screen whether the armour is an improvement (ie. 7 -> 12)
 
Secret of Mana is actually pretty hard. The hit detection is flakey and sometimes bad guys can get you into a loop where they're essentially hitting you when you're down endlessly and you can't get up.

Those martial art wolves can wreck you if they feel like it haha
 

yyr

Member
Every so often, spend some time beating up on enemies and leveling up. That will help considerably.

You can hold 4 of every item, and usually, you'll want to keep a full stock of everything.

The hit detection *is* weird, as was pointed out, but you will get used to it.
 

Pejo

Gold Member
I haven't played this game since I was a kid (not to make you feel bad) but don't remember it being near that hard. You know how to charge your physical attack, right? And no blocking, just movement to dodge.

Yea I was honestly kinda thrown off by the OP. I don't remember this game being that tough at all. Sounds like it's time for a replay. Can't wait to ride on the gentle wings of my buddy F
lammie
again.
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
You wait until your bar says 100% to swing or it won't do much damage.

The game's bosses are just flat out easy if you just spam Sprite magic. The part that's hard is when you get to parts (e.g. early on in the Haunted Forest when you're basically alone, or the Gold Tower) where random enemies just way out level your armor and can kill you in one hit but you can't justify using magic on them.
 

21XX

Banned
I'm glad you're playing Secret of Mana. Awesome game. But these threads always confuse me. Instead of writing on a forum and waiting for people to possibly answer your questions, why not just google? "Secret of Mana revive character" gets the answer in less than a second.
 

Havok1313

Member
I don't really remember this game being hard, but it's been a long time and I probably used a walkthrough. Once you have magic make sure you learn how to chain spells together...I feel like that was important and helpful.
 

ethomaz

Banned
My first SNES game together with Mega Man X... loved.

And in disagree with every one here it is easy.

Some tips...

1. Hold your attack until it reaches the action level related to upgrade level of your weapon (it is really give you a super critical attack).

2. Use magics... you control os of the chars but you can use the magic of the others via menus.

3. Upgrade your weapon... more damage and 1 level to charge the weapon (each level is a new and powerful move).

For example the first boss can be killed in four or five LVL1 critical attacks.
 

Raven117

Member
I...honestly I don't remember the game being very hard....But my memory is hazy.,

OP, like any SquareSoft game back in those days. Grind a little. Buy some candy to heal...cup of wishes....and magic...once you get gem missles, you can essentially chain the attacks together one after the other for the Win.

Damn I love this game....
 

sharc

Neo Member
leaving sprite on AI is some real bizarro-land stuff to me, because in my experience the biggest obstacle in any multiplayer session of this game has always been resolving who gets to be the sprite. attack magic is Real Dang Good in this game.
 

Celine

Member
Level up your magic.
Spells can be chained together by cast them in succession to amplify the final damage.

I don't consider Secret of Mana a great game like many do because the gameplay is weak. Though it has colorful graphics and awesome music.
 

ethomaz

Banned
Mega man X was a challenge! I remember 100% that one :)
It was... my little brothers had no issue playing Secret of Mana (7 and 5 years old at time) but they asked help every time when playing Mega Man X.

leaving sprite on AI is some real bizarro-land stuff to me, because in my experience the biggest obstacle in any multiplayer session of this game has always been resolving who gets to be the sprite. attack magic is Real Dang Good in this game.
I always left Sprite to fight only and when I want I choose the magic to use... to be fair I only used magic by my choose (I didn't allow AI to use it) because you can access magic menu playing with the hero for example.

I don't consider Secret of Mana a great game like many do because the gameplay is weak. Though it has colorful graphics and awesome music.
Weird because gameplay is what set it apart from the others game in that age... the clones (even from SE) had worst gameplay.
 

maxcriden

Member
leaving sprite on AI is some real bizarro-land stuff to me, because in my experience the biggest obstacle in any multiplayer session of this game has always been resolving who gets to be the sprite. attack magic is Real Dang Good in this game.

I didn't know I could switch characters. Do you remember how?

--

Thanks all for the advice. I really appreciate it. I don't think we've found spells yet in the game. I'm heartened to know (a) there is a way to get player 3 to help in battle and (b) there is a way to charge your attack. I don't think we ever tried holding a button. *sweat emoji*
 

Nohar

Member
Those martial art wolves can wreck you if they feel like it haha

This. Those two martial art werewolves were my nightmare when I was a kid. You really have to be careful when you fight them (and they show up again in the witch's castle IIRC).

We made it through the Haunted Forest to a castle place at the end and then died. But there was no save point in-between so we have do that whole part again which is just kinda tedious. Is there ever an ability to save more often in the game?

Inside the castle you can rescue people from the cells. Once you do that, you can buy items from Chacha (no idea what his/her name is in english), who can also save your game.
Take note that the next boss is, arguably, the hardest in the game. Come prepared. Once you beat that ordeal, the game will become significantly easier as soon as you unlock magic.
 
I didn't know I could switch characters. Do you remember how?

--
pretty sure it's select

This. Those two martial art werewolves were my nightmare when I was a kid. You really have to be careful when you fight them (and they show up again in the witch's castle IIRC).
The witch's castle (the boss actually) is where I dropped the game as a kid. Couldn't take it and only went back to it years later. Now one of my fav games though
 

Koren

Member
I didn't know I could switch characters. Do you remember how?
Select or L/R, I don't remember well, although I've played it again 18 months ago (I play Seiken 1 to 4 on a regular basis)

I'd suggest using the girl so that she stay safe (the IA isn't great), set the guy on aggressive, the sprite on defensive, use the girl spells to heal everyone, and spam the sprite attack spells (I'd say fire and earth are often the most useful at first, dark is great later). Casting elements on the guy weapon can be useful.

Also, the spells that steal magic points (and health points) from enemies are really handy.

And yes, charge the attack, and learn the patterns (1 bar, 2 bars, 3 bars... each give a different attack), some are more useful than others.

The game isn't hard, it's even too easy when you get the held of it.

You can actually finish the game with a single character, that's a nicer challenge (especially with the guy, unless you farm chocolate), but you need to get some training for this...

Also, try Seiken 3 after (beware, some team choices make the game a bit harder)

You need to grind a little. Like I said, the game is very hard. I played with my 2 little brothers back in a time where I wasn't as... cognizant of illegality (emulators). Even with 2 real humans helping me, it was hard.
It's annoying with 3 players, because magic stop everything, but it shouldn't be hard...

Secret of Everymore (a low budget and inferior clone made by SE) was more harder.
It's still nice, with many interesting ideas, and not that harder...
 

Celine

Member
Weird because gameplay is what set it apart from the others game in that age... the clones (even from SE) had worst gameplay.
3 player coop in an adventure game is what set apart SoM from other games from that epoch.
I don't like how they designed the battle system (only apparently action oriented, in reality it is far more dependant on statistics than positioning), the game is also very buggy.
Quintet action RPG on SNES are better games.

It's annoying with 3 players, because magic stop everything, but it shouldn't be hard...
Yep, it's not a very well thought battle system.
 
At some point in the game, you will find a suit that offers 139 defense--way, way, way more than anything else you have--and you will bust your ass to buy three. Then you will proceed past another area or two, and you will find new armor that's 240 defense.

Remember this.
 

Koren

Member
Remember this.
Also remember you'll search the whole game for dozen of hours trying to find the ax orb you have "missed".

Or the garnet circlet (IIRC?) the manual is talking about.


This game is sometimes strange, the rumors said it was cut because larger carts were reserved for Enix, I've always wondered whether it was true.
 

Jockel

Member
This is the correct approach to combat:
monkey-pulls-dog-tail.gif


Attack, get some distance diagonally from the enemy, wait for 100%, repeat.
 

maxcriden

Member
Thanks again, all. I really appreciate the help and I'm sure my wife will also.

This. Those two martial art werewolves were my nightmare when I was a kid. You really have to be careful when you fight them (and they show up again in the witch's castle IIRC).

Inside the castle you can rescue people from the cells. Once you do that, you can buy items from Chacha (no idea what his/her name is in english), who can also save your game.
Take note that the next boss is, arguably, the hardest in the game. Come prepared. Once you beat that ordeal, the game will become significantly easier as soon as you unlock magic.

We took down one werewolf but I think the second or third destroyed us. It was really the floating chairs that destroyed us come to think of it. Any tips for those?

I believe Chacha is Neko, which is the Japanese word for cat but I'm guessing you know that. :) It's always pleasant to run in to him in the game.

Any specific tips for this next boss?

pretty sure it's select

The witch's castle (the boss actually) is where I dropped the game as a kid. Couldn't take it and only went back to it years later. Now one of my fav games though

I can totally see it being the part of the game where I would have given up as a kid also.

About what you said in re: "get good" in your previous post, that's a fair point and I totally agree. I suppose what I meant more in my OP is that getting good is based more on awareness and understanding of the games' inherent workings and less on innate combat skill like in some games where people say "get good." I hope that makes sense, I'm not sure I'm articulating it very well. And, thanks for the select tip and your advice in your other post also!

Select or L/R, I don't remember well, although I've played it again 18 months ago (I play Seiken 1 to 4 on a regular basis)

I'd suggest using the girl so that she stay safe (the IA isn't great), set the guy on aggressive, the sprite on defensive, use the girl spells to heal everyone, and spam the sprite attack spells (I'd say fire and earth are often the most useful at first, dark is great later). Casting elements on the guy weapon can be useful.

Also, the spells that steal magic points (and health points) from enemies are really handy.

And yes, charge the attack, and learn the patterns (1 bar, 2 bars, 3 bars... each give a different attack), some are more useful than others.

The game isn't hard, it's even too easy when you get the held of it.

You can actually finish the game with a single character, that's a nicer challenge (especially with the guy, unless you farm chocolate), but you need to get some training for this...

Also, try Seiken 3 after (beware, some team choices make the game a bit harder)

It's annoying with 3 players, because magic stop everything, but it shouldn't be hard...

It's still nice, with many interesting ideas, and not that harder...

I've got SD3 and I planned to try 1 eventually also. I need to improve my JP skills before I can play 3. Thank you for all of your advice!

For two players, which would you advise *not* using and leaving as AI?
 

Nohar

Member
We took down one werewolf but I think the second or third destroyed us. It was really the floating chairs that destroyed us come to think of it. Any tips for those?

I believe Chacha is Neko, which is the Japanese word for cat but I'm guessing you know that. :) It's always pleasant to run in to him in the game.

Any specific tips for this next boss?

For the chairs, stun-lock them with 100% attacks, and/or only counterattack (wait for them to attack, dodge, attack).

For the boss:
  • Bring the maximum of every healing items available (Candies, chocolate, even honey if you have some, the herb which cancel status ailments, and the item which allows you to revive character).
  • Equip everyone with the best armors available (including hats and bangles).
  • Have at least once character able to use the level 1 charge of a ranged weapon. You will need it.
  • Try to be at a good level. This is probably the only time you will actually need to grind.
  • There is no safe zone. Sprite will almost certainly die. Kill the boss before it kills you.
 

Widge

Member
I remember that for the majority of the early game, you absolutely have to have the AI on keeping its distance and being defensive. It likes to get itself killed far too frequently.

But yes, as above.

Attack.
Run away.
Wait for the %age indicator to reach 100% and vanish.
Attack.
Run away.

Important things are to ALWAYS buy the best armour at every place you go to. If you cannot afford it then you are underlevelled. Go kill things and come back.

The only cliff I ever faced in the game was where you have to go to the secret mystical place before the final battle location. Some bod sells some armour that is DEAD expensive, you go off there and all the foes are completely nails. Serious grind required to get your guys up to speed and kitted out for that bit. Details:
essentially the bit before you go off to the mana tree... that section was a significant jump in damage being dealt compared to what was happening before. You absolutely need the top tier armour from the guy standing outside the seed temple to go through there.
 

Koren

Member
It's a ARPG, best armor makes things easier, but you can cope with sub-par armor if you're careful enough and know the patterns.

Hell, IIRC there's a no-armor, no-magic, no-orb, no-sprite walkthrough...

For two players, which would you advise *not* using and leaving as AI?
I'd say that if you play multiplayer, you should avoid offensive magic unless it's required (offensive magic makes the game far easier, so it can be useful in tight spot) because the one not casting the spell will keep waiting to play since it pauses the game.

So if you have to choose two, I'd discard Popoi (the sprite) and use Randi and Prim, because their physical stats are better (I'd say the weaker player should use the guy, which provide a better defense, even if that means longer fights since the better player will have a lower offense. Also, the girl can heal/revive the other without items, so it's better if she dies less often)

I've got SD3 and I planned to try 1 eventually also. I need to improve my JP skills before I can play 3.
I've played Seiken 3 far before speaking a bit of Japanese, without big issues. It's really not a definitive requirement (also, I prefer to play the original cart on a SNES, but I think there's translation patches)

(granted, I've played a LOT of RPG in japanese without speaking it. I've had small problems with FF, Tales of Phantasia, Soulblazer... SD3 is low on the list)
 

entremet

Member
The beginning sections of the game can be challenging.

That tiger is a pain. Make sure to equip the best armor available at that time.

Once you get magic, it's all over. Game becomes piss easy.
 

maxcriden

Member
Got damn, the tiger is terribly difficult. Is there any way to avoid it's awful magic attacks?

Any other tips not mentioned above?

Thanks again all.
 
The item Cup of Wishes brings a party member back from the dead.

Also, it sounds to me like you are treating the game like a pure hack and slash. Maybe you should be a little more patient/careful when it comes to battling? I don't remember this game being difficult even when I was 8 years old.

EDIT: Sorry, I don't mean to be condescending. I just think you are trying to find out how to make the game play like you want instead of playing to the game's design. You will get through it.
 

maxcriden

Member
Got damn, the tiger is terribly difficult. Is there any way to avoid it's awful magic attacks?

Any other tips not mentioned above?

Thanks again all.

Just a gentle plea if anyone can assist with this part in particular beyond what's already been mentioned.
 

Syril

Member
Just a gentle plea if anyone can assist with this part in particular beyond what's already been mentioned.
Man, I don't even remember any particular strategy I used. The Spiky Tiger is definitely the hardest part of the game for reasons which will become apparent shortly after.
 

maxcriden

Member
Man, I don't even remember any particular strategy I used. The Spiky Tiger is definitely the hardest part of the game for reasons which will become apparent shortly after.

It's at least reassuring that we're not unusual to find this part difficult. Thank you. Was there any way to block the damn spells, though? Or will there ever be?
 

Syril

Member
It's at least reassuring that we're not unusual to find this part difficult. Thank you. Was there any way to block the damn spells, though? Or will there ever be?
I'm pretty certain you can't block spells, but you can use Medical Herbs to cure the Engulfed status. He spends time on the raised platforms right? I'm pretty sure you can still reach him with ranged weapons.
 

maxcriden

Member
I'm pretty certain you can't block spells, but you can use Medical Herbs to cure the Engulfed status. He spends time on the raised platforms right? I'm pretty sure you can still reach him with ranged weapons.

Yep, you're right about the medical herbs helping with engulfed status. It's just tough because he busts out that move out a lot and you can only carry four herbs total. I did read on GameFAQs about the ranged weapons and I think we will give that a shot, maybe after leveling them up bit. Anyway, thank you, it's much appreciated.
 

ethomaz

Banned
Just a gentle plea if anyone can assist with this part in particular beyond what's already been mentioned.
What level you are? Below lvl 10 is really hard (close to impossible).

This battle takes in two parts... one when he is on floor and vulnerable and the second when he is on platform.

On floor: use changed attacks lvl 2 (sword or spear) with the main guy.

On platform: use spear to hit him or do nothing... it is not needed to hit him on platform to defeat him... just walk around and wait with the changed attack lvl 2.

You will kill him in no time...
 

iidesuyo

Member
Secret of Mana is one of the few games that get easier the more you progress.

The hardest boss was the "Schmusekater", I don't know the English name. It was the cat boss in the witch's castle. After that everything is easy, just level up the magic.
 
Top Bottom