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Help me save my Plasma TV from Destiny HUD
- Thread starter amar212
- Start date
Probably the main reason why i went my my Samsung LED DLP back when i last upgraded my main TV instead of a Plasma at the time...
There are plenty of ways to get rid of image retention, and even prevent it in most cases, but i wouldnt trust the OTHER people who would be using the TV from time to time lol...
There are plenty of ways to get rid of image retention, and even prevent it in most cases, but i wouldnt trust the OTHER people who would be using the TV from time to time lol...
TheVanillaGorilla
Neo Member
I used to worry about image retention on my Panasonic Plasma, then I had the misfortune of gaming on my girlfriend's LG LCD (or LED as the cunning marketing men have decreed). After experiencing input lag, noticeable backlighting and terrible contrast I can now cope with an hour or two screen washing a week.
Isn't IR worse on OLED than plasma?
Gillian Seed
Banned
Lmao!
Absolutely. I accept having to worry about HUD elements and IR. I've done plenty of gaming with HUD elements and it has never been as much of a problem as it is with Destiny because of the colors used.
Much better than having to deal with using an LCD as my primary set though.
Get the Disney WOW calibration bluray and run the pixel flipper program overnight.
Palette Swap
Member
Also, FWIW, check the pixel orbiter is really activated.
I'm pointing that out because IIRC, my GT50 has two possibilities for that setting, "Automatic" and "On" and Auto means pretty much "Off".
I'm pointing that out because IIRC, my GT50 has two possibilities for that setting, "Automatic" and "On" and Auto means pretty much "Off".
PerfectConsumer
Neo Member
I don't have that problem with my Panasonic plasma, but if I did I'd run the anti image retention feature for a few minutes periodically. That, or create a zoom profile that moves the hud significantly without prohibiting play, and alternating between them periodically.
The image retention should pass, though.
The image retention should pass, though.
Latvian Hitman
Member
This issue varies a lot from model to model, but is almost never permanent. My ST30 definitely gets IR from time to time when I game too much, but it always goes away. Never gotten any IR on my VT60 that lasted more than a minute or two, and even that is really rare.
Exactly the same happened to me on my ST50 with Destiny and Diablo 3. Some games just can't be limited to short sessions. Stunning picture but was stressing me too much.
Plasma has been moved to second living room for movies, got myself a low lag Sony LCD. Surprised at home much LCD has caught up to be honest on picture quality and motion handling. Low lag has genuinely improved my gaming too.
To make you feel better, many hundreds of hours of normal TV viewing on the plasma later the ir has gone.
Plasma has been moved to second living room for movies, got myself a low lag Sony LCD. Surprised at home much LCD has caught up to be honest on picture quality and motion handling. Low lag has genuinely improved my gaming too.
To make you feel better, many hundreds of hours of normal TV viewing on the plasma later the ir has gone.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
Huh? LG's OLED TV literally destroys any Plasma I've seen, and I'm a big plasma TV fan.
I read somewhere that motion resolution on OLED is worse than Plasma, but I'm just not seeing it. Plasma has those green trails every time something with high contrast moves on them. I saw no such weirdness on that LG's OLED TV I was starting at for probably an hour.
blazeuk
Member
My GT50 is having the same problem, massively annoying and it's at the point where as much as I enjoy playing Destiny I don't really want to anymore, certainly not for long periods of time because of what it's doing to my TV and how crap it looks when I'm watching a movie or football and I can see the HUD in the bottom left.
Figuratively*
And its not really a debate worth having. Like audiophiles arguing about the top tier headphones. Both options are high end and have certain benefits.
EDIT: Sorry about the grammar correction, I just have a pet peeve with the misuse of the word literally
No, that's not really true at all. Weeks/months of playing a video game with the same HUD is not going to be washed away with a 20 min YouTube video, especially if you go back to playing that game straight after. But taking a break and playing some other content for a good length of time will clear it.
Mattlikewhoa
Member
I went through two GT30's and one VT30, before jumping ship to Samsung plasmas. I still own a 50" ST30 for my bedroom set.
What? There was an issue before the 3D models as well (among other things).
What? There was an issue before the 3D models as well (among other things).
It seems to be something specific to the later model Panasonics and solid white and solid yellow elements.
Destiny's solid white hud, Fox's solid white logo on hulu and Knacks' Bright ass yellow sunstone meters are the only things I've seen do it.
Oh the set is new? That will be why then. You have to be very gentle until it's properly broken in. When I first got my VT50 I was playing Dragon's Dogma on there and got the four buttons imprinted. It took ages to fade but now IR really just isn't much of an issue even though I still hammer games pretty heavily.
Figuratively*
EDIT: Sorry about the grammar correction, I just have a pet peeve with the misuse of the word literally
No need to apologize. Grammar, spelling and English in general are often quite atrocious on NeoGAF. If more people pointed it out occasionally, maybe it would actually improve...
OP get some break in slides in a pen drive, and EVERY TIME you play Destiny put then on repeat on your TV for at least 15 minutes when you finish. It might be a good idea to do that every 2 or 3 hours if you play for extended periods of time.
This helped me prevent burn in and image retention on all my older Plasma sets. I used to do it every time I played a game on the PS3.
I had a nasty case of image retention (it was almost a definitive burn in) before I started doing that with Ninja Gaiden 2. The health bar was stuck on my TV for a good two weeks before I could get rid of it by playing the break in slides for hours every day.
It was easy to do it on the PS3, don't know if the PS4 or Xbone have the option of putting a bunch of JPEGs on a folder and displaying then on a slideshow on repeat.
As a fellow plasma lover I also have this to say to you my friend: Let it go. Plasma is dead. If you have the means buy a good LED LCD (Sony's latests sets have really low lag). Or wait until response times are good with OLEDS. I had my hands on an LG OLED set but thankfully I remembered to check for lag tests and it's performance was horrible.
As far as gaming goes, there is not a single consumer oriented OLED set in the market suitable for gaming. The LG and Samsung sets have more than 60ms lag on the Leo Bognar test on game or PC mode.
My current Sony LED have 13ms lag with game mode on.
As far as image goes I think they are (finally) better than Kuros. It only took LCD style tech almost 10 years to top Plasma.
This helped me prevent burn in and image retention on all my older Plasma sets. I used to do it every time I played a game on the PS3.
I had a nasty case of image retention (it was almost a definitive burn in) before I started doing that with Ninja Gaiden 2. The health bar was stuck on my TV for a good two weeks before I could get rid of it by playing the break in slides for hours every day.
It was easy to do it on the PS3, don't know if the PS4 or Xbone have the option of putting a bunch of JPEGs on a folder and displaying then on a slideshow on repeat.
As a fellow plasma lover I also have this to say to you my friend: Let it go. Plasma is dead. If you have the means buy a good LED LCD (Sony's latests sets have really low lag). Or wait until response times are good with OLEDS. I had my hands on an LG OLED set but thankfully I remembered to check for lag tests and it's performance was horrible.
As far as gaming goes, there is not a single consumer oriented OLED set in the market suitable for gaming. The LG and Samsung sets have more than 60ms lag on the Leo Bognar test on game or PC mode.
My current Sony LED have 13ms lag with game mode on.
As far as image goes I think they are (finally) better than Kuros. It only took LCD style tech almost 10 years to top Plasma.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
It's obviously being used for a comedic effect. I know what literally means.Figuratively*
And its not really a debate worth having. Like audiophiles arguing about the top tier headphones. Both options are high end and have certain benefits.
EDIT: Sorry about the grammar correction, I just have a pet peeve with the misuse of the word literally
OLED is not the LCD style tech. It's practically the oposite as the elements emit the coloured light (as opposed to blocking the light like on LCD), much like in Plasma panels, and there's no backlight, again much like in plasma panels. I think the 60ms is for some of the modes, but the mode labeled for PC use is less than that. I've read that somewhere. How much lag does my TH-50PZ85U have?
*edit* Here, I found it
http://hdguru.com/lg-55ec9300-oled-hdtv-review/
"Response time measurements revealed the 55EC9300’s Cinema picture preset introduced an average of 108ms of video lag according to the Leo Bodnar Lag Tester . Switching to the TV’s Game picture preset brought the lag down to 50ms. Renaming the HDMI input to “PC” (one of several preset name options) and using Game mode brought the average lag measurement down to 34ms."
34ms has got to be better than a TON of LCDs that are just a few years old, and probably better than most 2010-ish plasmas too, no? People game just fine on those.
Dash Kappei
Not actually that important
I've never suffered from burn-in or even serious IR on my TH42PX80 but this is making me a bit weary about getting that P60VT60 deal I've been eyeing in the last days (fucking 3d screwing up awesome panels) but who the hell even games for 15hours straight anyway?
What's the proper gaming mode on the VT60? A custom calibration? I hear you have to avoid gaming on THX or ISF modes, true?
Unknown Soldier
Member
The Cult of Plasma is so cute
While you are right, OLED blacks are essentially infinite and provide great contrast that contrast can be wasted if these other innacuracies I mentioned are present. Don't get me wrong, I love OLED as a technology and adore my Vita's screen, but it has a ways to go before it dethrones Plasma as the display king.
As an additional for those who worry about Plasma IR and Image Retention, after the first 300 hours or so it is far less prevalent and in my current situation for example with my 3 year old D8000 it no longer get's IR or IT and I play games all the time on it; most notably Destiny since it launched. The only baby sitting needed so to speak is during those first couple hundred hours and you're golden.
Indeed. Consumers today only care about low prices and large sizes. Everything else doesn't matter and that includes picture quality. I disagree with the average consumer.
Enjoy your Bose sound system and LCD TV.
So wanting the same size as a comparable high end LCD model but far cheaper and with far superior image quality is a cute cult? Ok.
"Cult" is the wrong word.
We're connoisseurs of proper image quality and gaming performance.
65" VT60 owner here.
my man dark goin in lol
Tathanen
Get Inside Her!
My VT60 has the worst image retention I have ever seen on a television. Shovel Knight's HUD was terrible for it, and I get an echo of the static mission box from Hyrule Warriors every time I play. Character portraits/percents stick around after battles in Smash Bros, too. I actually have to "warm the set up" before using it by just letting the screen wipe run for a few minutes, because image retention is so bad immediately after turning it on from cold that even the boot image that's up for 1 second leaves an enormous ghost.
Pixel orbiting is fine and all, but all it does is blur the edges of retained images, not actually reduce their retention in any capacity. Which is still a good thing, but not a fix.
My older Panny Plasma downstairs has a slight channel logo permanently burnt into the corner, but beyond that it doesn't experience any of the IR issues my VT has. Maybe it's just due to age, the sets get less retention as they get older, but I do feel like my VT is not supposed to retain as much as it does.
Anyway, the point is: if you play a lot of games or watch a lot of logo-ey TV on a set like this, the solution is "simple." If you play the game one day, run the screen wipe all night long. Give it a solid 8+ hours. Do NOT play the game for a bunch of hours one day, then turn it off, then turn it right back on the next day and play for a whole new bunch of hours. Running the screen wipe for a significant amount of time between play sessions is vital.
I sent a PM to the guy making Cosmochoria and he actually implemented a burn-in reduction HUD mode at my request, so it's not unheard of to get devs to act on stuff like this. (Though a one-man Kickstarter game and Bungie are probably a bit different.) Hopefully devs consider things like this more moving forward, though with the death of Plasma I kind of doubt it.
Pixel orbiting is fine and all, but all it does is blur the edges of retained images, not actually reduce their retention in any capacity. Which is still a good thing, but not a fix.
My older Panny Plasma downstairs has a slight channel logo permanently burnt into the corner, but beyond that it doesn't experience any of the IR issues my VT has. Maybe it's just due to age, the sets get less retention as they get older, but I do feel like my VT is not supposed to retain as much as it does.
Anyway, the point is: if you play a lot of games or watch a lot of logo-ey TV on a set like this, the solution is "simple." If you play the game one day, run the screen wipe all night long. Give it a solid 8+ hours. Do NOT play the game for a bunch of hours one day, then turn it off, then turn it right back on the next day and play for a whole new bunch of hours. Running the screen wipe for a significant amount of time between play sessions is vital.
I sent a PM to the guy making Cosmochoria and he actually implemented a burn-in reduction HUD mode at my request, so it's not unheard of to get devs to act on stuff like this. (Though a one-man Kickstarter game and Bungie are probably a bit different.) Hopefully devs consider things like this more moving forward, though with the death of Plasma I kind of doubt it.
If you can still see the image on the screen when the TV is off, it's burn-in. I would be very surprised if anyone had actually played Destiny long enough to cause burn-in on a modern plasma panel. It would take close to a thousand hours minimum.
Stupid question, but how can I see something if it's off? Would like to test this! Just shine a flashlight on it or something?
Bungie is aware and apparently working on something:
http://www.bungie.net/en-US/Forum/Post/67140571/0/0
To the OP and others having issues:
I had the same problem and made a thread just after the game was released on their forums.
This is what I did to help mitigate the IR on my VT60.
1. Rotate/mix up the Screen Size options in the game. All it does is place move the HUD elements. Normally I had it totally expanded since my TV has no overscan, but after some time playing I would reduce the size and move the HUD some to give those areas some rest.
2. If you're just farming, or playing dumb Patrol missions, use the TVs screen format options to zoom/stretch etc. Yeah it's stupid, but you're not doing anything important.
3. If you have a Vita, remote play to do menial tasks. Hell, I even did higher level strikes with the Vita and did pretty well.
http://www.bungie.net/en-US/Forum/Post/67140571/0/0
To the OP and others having issues:
I had the same problem and made a thread just after the game was released on their forums.
This is what I did to help mitigate the IR on my VT60.
1. Rotate/mix up the Screen Size options in the game. All it does is place move the HUD elements. Normally I had it totally expanded since my TV has no overscan, but after some time playing I would reduce the size and move the HUD some to give those areas some rest.
2. If you're just farming, or playing dumb Patrol missions, use the TVs screen format options to zoom/stretch etc. Yeah it's stupid, but you're not doing anything important.
3. If you have a Vita, remote play to do menial tasks. Hell, I even did higher level strikes with the Vita and did pretty well.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Maybe if I game more on console I wouldn't have gone with a plasma, but I don't, and I also don't want to give up superior image quality for watching videos.
Fairly easy choice for my media consumption patterns and home theater requirements.
Fairly easy choice for my media consumption patterns and home theater requirements.
Memorabilia
Member
I have a couple Panasonic Plasmas that have been demoted to movie watching use only for this reason. The older of the 2 (a 2011 model) had severe image retention after 100+ hours of Left 4 Dead 2. The newer, higher end model (2013) seems to be more resistant but I don't take the risk anymore. I decided to go LCD from now on. I love plasma for movies in a dark room...but for gaming I picked up a 65" Vizio LCD that is beautiful and no risk of IR.
Night Angel
Member
For a solution that doesn't involve getting rid of an excellent tv (st50 baby!), move the screen bounds settings periodically. It doesn't change the fov, it just moves the hud. This works for Dragon Age as well.
Gaming is not worse in any of the standard modes provided, but if you use Game mode it will have better (less) input lag but at the cost of many of the granular controls that are a available to give you a more accurate picture. It is the reason why I accept the native input lag of my set as a tradeoff for the great image quality/accuracy. If I remember correctly, out of the box THX mode is the most accurate mode available on Panasonic sets before any adjustments or calibration is done.
clutch.as.it.gets.
Member
You have a Plasma for movies and another Plasma for gaming only?
What i do is, when im finished gaming i let my plasma run some TV program for two more hours with max zoom every time.
I bought a VT60 about a year ago and soon realized that the people saying that you had to abuse modern Plasmas to get persistent IR were full of shit. I played MLB for 3 days (probably 8hours total) and had the 1st and 3rd baselines stuck on my screen for a week and a half.
So I bought a Sony W8 and its my dedicated gaming TV now. Couldn't be happier with that decision. Never even think twice about playing a game for an extended sesh.
clutch.as.it.gets.
Member
Thats not true. I have the pana gt 60 42 and everything set up right (no overscan, no zoom,...) and the pixel orbiter definitely works. It goes form the right side to the left (right side gets a little/small bar when its happening) and then back again form the left side to the right (little black bar is on the left side then).
I think on the Panasonic plasma's with THX (my ST50 doesn't have it) it significantly increases input lag AND turns off the pixel orbiter, potentially increasing ir.
To the OP - have you tried lowering brightness and contrast? This seemed to reduce but not eliminate ir on my set without a huge difference to the image. There seems to be tv to tv variation within even the same model, so some small tweaks may eliminate on yours.
Running the Disney WOW disk pixel flipper seemed to accelerate ir removal in the short term for me, and I got better results when I turned pixel orbiter off when running it.
Unknown Soldier
Member
You have no idea what I have in my home theater but your insulting patronization and condescending arrogance is adorable
Kabuki Quantum Lover
Member
As a plasma owner, fuck plasma TVs. I've been babysitting my LG for years now (always putting it to static before shutting off, etc.). I want out!
The solution to image retention is to watch something else on your TV. Just mute the TV and leave the set on a full screen channel for a while...You typically have to be watching the same pattern for 10% of your usage time to get noticeable long lasting IR on most modern plasmas. Also, I'm assuming this is a TV that has been through a proper breaking in period with varied content.
AVSForum will have a lot of info on how to break in a plasma and how to get rid of retention that you've already got.
AVSForum will have a lot of info on how to break in a plasma and how to get rid of retention that you've already got.