• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Help me understand $15 minimum wage

Status
Not open for further replies.

Condom

Member
we can't raise the wages because otherwise companies are going to fire everyone and hire monkeys and then everyone will be out of jobs because they complain too much

I suggest poor people should stop complaining and work instead of sleep at night I mean what the fuck are they doing at night anyway, probably wasting space and oxygen

we should also lower taxes on the rich job creators because you know they out of the goodness of their hearts live in the US to help everyone even when they can go to glorious moon where you know you don't have an oppressive government and petty poor people who complain about jobs that YOU GAVE THEM

PS. maybe if some of u went to economics 101 or did a ECONOMICS MAJOR like me and was actually SMART then you'd understand that only communists would want higher wages through any other means that is not the free market. even in the free market wages can be too high though because actually only SMART PEOPLE are allowed to prosper. I want economic darwinism all other people are just wasting resources anyway

I mean, if you're poor you can just sell a kidney to make rent. Not sure why companies should foot the bill for you having two kidneys

I know right, poor people should just start their own Wallmart kind of store if they don't like the current one or you know go to job land and get a decent job like real estate agent like the one and only good business man in the world DONALD J TRUMP
 
There is a very good chance that these payouts are likely stock based with vesting periods. This doesn't make it right or wrong, just pointing out the difference.
I'm aware. I have stock in my company that was vested. Even if it's in the form of stock, it's still money even if it's not immediately liquid and it is compensation. That really doesn't change the fact that the split between workers and CEOs is EXTREMELY lopsided.
 

ThisGuy

Member
It's got to be based on county and should not include kids living with their parents.

Rent is dirt cheap around here. No need for 15.
 
I don't know, if you have good employees, run things efficiently and produce a quality product you can make a good living while paying high wages. My employees (carpenters) make between 25 and 30 dollars an hour and with heath insurance and retirement that I provide it goes up to between 50 and 60 dollars an hour per employee. I pay for drive time after the first hour as well as motel and 45 dollars a day per diem for meals when traveling out of town. I compete against other construction companies who pay less by getting the better workers and retaining them. My job turnaround time is faster.

My company is still a small one so that does make it easier to me to manage all the upper management between my business partner and I. Both of us are able to do quite fine while making sure our employees have a solid income and safety net.

I know my company is not for instance typical and some types of retail for instance could not pay the same but they can still pay decent wages. One of my acquaintances runs a food truck and has a eatery as well and the standard cost of a meal is between 8 and 11 dollars and he pays his workforce starting at 15 dollars an hour, most of them make more and as a result he has low turnover and a loyal staff that works hard.

There are many business owners in the US who believe in and implement decent wages for our employees. There are many more who I feel are shortsited and try to maximize profits and let the tax payer cover the food stamps and section 8 housing, etc.

The ultimate goal of a raise in the minimum wage would be to raise spending power of the lower income consumer. Instead of money ending up in fewer and fewer hands of the much more weathy, it will be in many more hands of lower income families and individuals who would be using it for daily necessities which would grow the economy creating need for new jobs. The argument that companies cannot compete by paying the worker more while those at the top make fortunes is silly.

Thank you for posting this. Employees who are compensated well do a better job and are happier. That translates to being better for the business as a whole. It's amazing how many business owners think that paying the bare minimum makes ANYTHING better except their bottom line.
 
Or they'll forget to examine how doubling the minimum wage actually reduces the purchasing power of people currently making between $12-$16 an hour. People who are currently between 50%-150% above minimum wage are all now at or significantly closer to minimum wage. A minimum wage hike helps the poor and low-income but it absolutely guts the middle class.

A nation-wide $15 federal minimum wage solves absolutely nothing for anyone but has potential disastrous side-effects for almost everyone. It's a terrible idea that sounds good on paper, and makes for a great political argument by telling the uneducated poor they'll get more money, but it's mostly smoke and mirrors that doesn't solve any problems, just moves the goal posts a little further down the line. Minimum wage is still minimum wage. It's not like businesses (especially housing) won't adjust accordingly like they have before. The poor will still be poor, it'll just make $15 an hour the new 'poor'.

Do you really believe that the minimum wage jumping to $15 would be in some kind of magic economic vacuum? That every job below $15 would go to only $15, and jobs only slightly above it would stay that way?
 
Also this will cause prices on products to go up a substantial amount to compensate for the $15/hr people get paid. Making the cost of living more. I don't know how much it would affect the cost of living, but it is also something to keep in mind.

I would love to make $15/hr
I would not like if $15/hr was minimum wage.

Edit: I am not in any way shape or form knowledgeable about economics so this statement could be invalid.
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
It's funny how opinionated people are on this issue entirely based on how they think things would work. I don't think an overly simplified theoretical scenario someone thought up is very accurate, it is silly to me this is all people need to make a complex decision.

The argument for a higher minimum wage isn't really complex. It's a moral argument against allowing companies to pay their workers less than a living wage. The argument against require more assumptions and by extension the responses to those arguments tend to have to respond with their own assumptions.

The argument could be simplified if the people against minimum wage had a solid cause and effect example of something like this causing major economic problems, but there's not much evidence of it's effect on the economy in either direction. From there I guess the burden of proof depends on textbook conservative versus liberal where conservatives want absolute proof things won't go wrong when we change things, and liberals want absolute proof things will go wrong before they stop doing what on a surface level seems like the morally right thing to do.

The annoying thing is american conservatives are better defined as regressivists, and want to entirely dismantle things that are already in place and working fine like minimum wage just because they have a theory based on an anecdote.
 

Drifters

Junior Member
I've maintained the entire time that a $15 dollar minimum wage is not solving the larger problem of moving people through the system of getting higher paid jobs.

I see the quotes about 'a rising tide lifts all boats' which I laugh at because the economies of scale response is "Yeah, good luck in your paddle boat, while i'm in my 100ft Yacht." My argument has been lower wage jobs were and are still, in my opinion not meant to be life long careers. Unfortunately, as things have progressed, access to education, health care costs, etc. has created a dependency on these lower tier jobs as means to pay for the aforementioned life costs.

The problem (seemingly) is that the top tier of CEO's of mega corps will always and forever make more money than little Joey who is 18 and working at McDonalds; now there seems to be a movement to make sure that Joey get's paid "fairly" in contrast to Mr. CEO. I can't support that logic as that defies what capitalism is however, if the argument is change the system, that sounds like a far more logical stance to have than raising the minimum wage.
 
Thank you for posting this. Employees who are compensated well do a better job and are happier. That translates to being better for the business as a whole. It's amazing how many business owners think that paying the bare minimum makes ANYTHING better except their bottom line.

You have no idea. My job is convincing small business owners to offer benefits to their employees. Everything my company offers is done through pay-roll deductions to the employee so it literally costs the business themselves absolutely nothing - in fact, they'll save money from reducing fraudulent workman's comp claims, increased employee retention and productivity, and lower FICA taxes.

And we still only convince about 30% of employers to even let us talk to their employees. About 10% of employers flat out tell us they'll never offer benefits to their employees, even if they could afford them, because they literally don't care about their workers. I have business owners say this, word for word, to my face, every day.

Do you really believe that the minimum wage jumping to $15 would be in some kind of magic economic vacuum? That every job below $15 would go to only $15, and jobs only slightly above it would stay that way?

For the most part, Yes. See above.
 

Condom

Member
Also this will cause prices on products to go up a substantial amount to compensate for the $15/hr people get paid. Making the cost of living more. I don't know how much it would affect the cost of living, but it is also something to keep in mind.

I would love to make $15/hr
I would not like if $15/hr was minimum wage.

Edit: I am not in any way shape or form knowledgeable about economics so this statement could be invalid.
We implemented a minimum wage in the past and raised it in the past and it worked.

Corporations like to make us think that we should, like you said, pursue wage hikes for ourselves only and not for all the other workers. What this means is that every worker is having an individual struggle instead of a strong collective one. It makes the position of the worker weaker and makes it easier for corporations to keep ripping most people off with low wages.
 

Log4Girlz

Member
The argument is inherently flawed because of the amount of nation-wide variables (cost of living, local minimum wage) and the disparity between corporate pay and small business pay.

For example, people love to jump on the example of how $7.25 an hour can't afford anything in a place like San Francisco. Ignoring the fact that SF is already at $12.25 local minimum, and the fact that even $15 an hour couldn't afford anything there anyway. So that's ultimately a pointless example, since the wage hike would only be $2.75 an hour and it's not going to make a difference anyway.

Or they'll point to how Wal-Mart, a multi-billion dollar corporation, doesn't pay its employees well and the government should step in and force those major corporations to shell out some of their profits to pay a living wage to their workers. But that fails to recognize that such legislation will also adversely affect small businesses - mom and pop shops that are barely generating $500k in total revenue a year and breaking even who are already struggling to compete against corporate pricing models (and benefits).

Or they'll forget to examine how doubling the minimum wage actually reduces the purchasing power of people currently making between $12-$16 an hour. People who are currently between 50%-150% above minimum wage are all now at or significantly closer to minimum wage. A minimum wage hike helps the poor and low-income but it absolutely guts the middle class.

A nation-wide $15 federal minimum wage solves absolutely nothing for anyone but has potential disastrous side-effects for almost everyone. It's a terrible idea that sounds good on paper, and makes for a great political argument by telling the uneducated poor they'll get more money, but it's mostly smoke and mirrors that doesn't solve any problems, just moves the goal posts a little further down the line. Minimum wage is still minimum wage. It's not like businesses (especially housing) won't adjust accordingly like they have before. The poor will still be poor, it'll just make $15 an hour the new 'poor'.

7.26 an hour maximum. Higher pay is for suckers
 
I've maintained the entire time that a $15 dollar minimum wage is not solving the larger problem of moving people through the system of getting higher paid jobs.

I see the quotes about 'a rising tide lifts all boats' which I laugh at because the economies of scale response is "Yeah, good luck in your paddle boat, while i'm in my 100ft Yacht." My argument has been lower wage jobs were and are still, in my opinion not meant to be life long careers. Unfortunately, as things have progressed, access to education, health care costs, etc. has created a dependency on these lower tier jobs as means to pay for the aforementioned life costs.

The problem (seemingly) is that the top tier of CEO's of mega corps will always and forever make more money than little Joey who is 18 and working at McDonalds; now there seems to be a movement to make sure that Joey get's paid "fairly" in contrast to Mr. CEO. I can't support that logic as that defies what capitalism is however, if the argument is change the system, that sounds like a far more logical stance to have than raising the minimum wage.

That's not how the economy works.

Not everyone can get "higher paying jobs". You want everyone to be white collar workers with college degrees? Maybe one day automation will bring upon that future but certainly not today, or in the next 5-10 years.

I absolutely agree a CEO should be paid far more than the lowest cog in the machine. I don't agree to the ratio it currently is now. But could the CEO exist without that bottom worker doing his job? Does that bottom worker deserve to make a livable wage? And wouldn't that bottom worker making a better wage encourage him to do a better job, and also circulate that money back into the economy, perhaps even the very business he now happily works for?
 

elyetis

Member
And wouldn't that bottom worker making a better wage encourage him to do a better job, and also circulate that money back into the economy, perhaps even the very business he now happily works for?
Are you crazy, if people were paid a 15 minimum wage, they wouldn't spend that money, it would go into tax haven, because that's what poor people do with their money.
 
We implemented a minimum wage in the past and raised it in the past and it worked.

I don't disagree with your second point, it's spot on.

But... the first minimum wage was $0.25 an hour and was about what most companies were already paying at a minimum to their workers. This was also in the social and economic climate of the 1930s.

We have also never doubled the minimum wage before in a single act or legislation. Not even close. The last proposal I saw had us doubling the minimum over a 5 year period. The shortest duration in which we've doubled the minimum wage was 8 individual and separate increases over a 30 year period.

History is not a good barometer for the current argument.
 

Drifters

Junior Member
That's not how the economy works.

Not everyone can get "higher paying jobs". You want everyone to be white collar workers with college degrees? Maybe one day automation will bring upon that future but certainly not today, or in the next 5-10 years.

I absolutely agree a CEO should be paid far more than the lowest cog in the machine. I don't agree to the ratio it currently is now. But could the CEO exist without that bottom worker doing his job? Does that bottom worker deserve to make a livable wage? And wouldn't that bottom worker making a better wage encourage him to do a better job, and also circulate that money back into the economy, perhaps even the very business he now happily works for?

The economy works based on the premise that people within each labor pool keep a balance; Right now, the lower tier pool is not moving enough people into the higher tier pools. As for the comment on not everyone can get higher paying jobs... My answer to that is why not? My premise isn't "butttt butttt bootstraps", however people are absolutely capable of getting higher paid jobs because of opportunity. I'm strictly speaking for the US and not for any other countries and as I stated earlier, the issue is rising costs of dependency items such as living, health care and food costs.

My point remains that moving the minimum wage up isn't going to solve housing costs, nor health care costs or food costs, it's going to exacerbate the problem not solve it. As to your question about livable wage, my assumption is that the "livable wage" includes food, shelter and clothing? I believe people deserve to make that wage for a period of time in their life, but not rely on that as a career for livelihood unless they are able to functionally live off that wage.
 

x-Lundz-x

Member
Man, is this what we've come to? There are enough resource in this world that everyone could live comfortable lives, but a select few control most of it through a system designed to render the equal distribution of wealth untenable. Then they get people like you to sing the praises of the economic prison 99% of us have been put in.

Why don't you try living on 8 dollars an hour, and then come back to me.

Not sure what you are spouting on about. My point you can't just make a business disappear and not affect the people working there. And I'm sorry a low paying job is better than no job.

I put myself through college working shitty ass 5.75 an hour jobs like movie theaters and blockbuster. I've bettered myself at every job I've had to get into the career I'm in now. So don't even come at me like I don't know what it's like to have shit and eat ramen noodles every day.

You can come back to me when you grow up and stop being an entitled child.
 

Bubba T

Member
One thing I always wondered about, people say that by increasing to a $15 minimum wage we'd see productivity increases. Where in the world do people get that idea from? If a person is lazy and working the minimum wage, they are still going to be lazy working the new minimum wage. They could not get paid any less than what they are, they still have no incentive to work harder (other than of course to excape a minimum wage lifestyle, but it seems many people dont actually think that way).

The idea is that a person doesn't have to work two jobs for the ability to eat, sleep, and house themselves/family members.

One job that pays you 15/hour will allow you to focus more of your efforts on your first job, rather than split it between multiple jobs.

I always find it amusing that people zero in on the supposed "lazy" as if that is supposed to be the reason to oppose an increase to wages and benefits for all.
 

Vanillalite

Ask me about the GAF Notebook
Another thing is while prices of goods and services won't inflate 1:1 they will rise some. Which means people without a job are put at an even greater disadvantage due to everybody making now $15 an hour.

Another reason why I'd prefer GMI + UHC.
 
Not sure what you are spouting on about. My point you can't just make a business disappear and not affect the people working there. And I'm sorry a low paying job is better than no job.

I put myself through college working shitty ass 5.75 an hour jobs like movie theaters and blockbuster. I've bettered myself at every job I've had to get into the career I'm in now. So don't even come at me like I don't know what it's like to have shit and eat ramen noodles every day.

You can come back to me when you grow up and stop being an entitled child.

You realize that the reason you had a minimum wage at all was because people with even shittier jobs and wages than you said, "you know, I might not get all the benefit of this betterment of society, but it's worth it for the people after me", right?

But nah, you think, "fuck em. If I had to be underpaid for my labor, so should everybody else."
 
image1.png


If this graph is anything to go by, then yes a $15 minimum wage is well deserved,
and in reality wages start flattening ten years earlier than this graph.
 

A Fish Aficionado

I am going to make it through this year if it kills me
Businesses lay off or limit hours in uncertainty. I really don't see how limiting min wage increase going to help employment or hourly numbers.

It's always going to get reported that any increase will have a negative impact. It's Stockholm syndrome.


Edit: Mobile typing sucks.
 
Luckily, that isnt the alternative. We have a national min wage. You just have to be cautious with it because it is the lowest common denominator. Individual states cities and counties can set theirs higher as they see fit.

This. The national minimum wage needs to be set according to places like Mississippi, not cities in California.
 
This one irks me so much. Why does a CEO get 20% increase in salary + bonus + stocks that go up + golden parachute + whatever while the low level workers get .5-2%?
Because the system is working as intended and that's the real problem. CEO pay should be slashed and capped to support paying the people at the bottom.
 

Drifters

Junior Member
You realize that the reason you had a minimum wage at all was because people with even shittier jobs and wages than you said, "you know, I might not get all the benefit of this betterment of society, but it's worth it for the people after me", right?

But nah, you think, "fuck em. If I had to be underpaid for my labor, so should everybody else."

Are people missing the point of existing within one pay pool for a period of time because that is where they can apply their current skills/abilities and that education/internships/specific trades lead to higher paying jobs? He's not saying "Fuck them for being entitled", his point is that people within these jobs should be (in theory) working their asses off and out of these jobs to move to a higher wage job.
 

MogCakes

Member
Distribution of wealth is distribution of power. Most people at the top don't care one bit about those at the other end of the spectrum, and will only pay attention if they stand to gain or lose influence from dealing with them.
 

Piggus

Member
Once the value of your job equates to unskilled jobs, then your income should rise if the business wants to retain you. Of course it's not going to be forced, and yes your job will pay the same until there is notable risk of losing you or similar employees

It's similar to if rent was lowered everywhere in a location but your place is still higher than the rest. Your landlord will be forced to match or else risk losing his tenants. Without this risk there is no incentive to match trends

Hopefully people don't look at minimum wage increase as an insult to those that are above minimum wage. This kind of thinking keeps things back due to emotions more than what society needs. And it's the same for any social law that helps any group.... The groups that don't need the help should not feel damaged by this.

I'm pretty confident my company would raise wages proportionally. There'd be a massive strike otherwise, as there would be no incentive for many people to stay.
 

Ogodei

Member
Probably been answered several times by now, but here's my take.

Yes, some companies will have to cut their workforce, some will go out of business altogether, but those who survive will have workers suddenly making 50% more (if they were paying $10/hour) or 100% more. Workers whose wages have risen to that degree will spend it, either in paying down debt (which frees them up to take on future debt or future debt-free spending), or in immediate consumable goods. This stimulates demand and creates employment, and maybe their friend who got downsized gets hired back at the same Walmart a year later due to increased business.

Inflation? It would only happen if this policy were imposed in an environment close to full employment (while headline unemployment numbers are good right now, workforce participation still hasn't recovered. There's still a fair bit of slack in the market).

The only concern is that there are indeed places like North Dakota, the Ozarks, or backwoods Appalachia where this number would legit be too high and throw the whole regional economy for a loop, but i think we should err on the side of raising the minimum in more places rather than fewer. The places that don't rise to $15 should be the exception, not the rule.
 
Okay, so, first I'm going to lay down a few ground rules.

  1. The minimum wage is phased in over a period of years
  2. average cost of labor as a percentage of gross is 30%
  3. There are no indirect benefits counted in the argument

So you want to raise the minimum wage up to $15 an hour, from, let's say, $7.50. This makes the math easier to follow without a calculator. That's an increase in cost of labor by 100%, assuming nothing else changes. That means, if your cost of labor is 30%, I've just increased the cost of doing business by 30%. To break even, relative to the new wages, you'll have to raise your prices by 30% to account for the new wage -- if EVERYONE on payroll makes $7.50/hr, so, you know, it's a worst case scenario dealio.

However, so will your suppliers. And if supplies to produce with are again, 30% of it, you'd have to further raise your prices by about 9%. But wait, THEIR supplier also pays everyone minimum wage and ALSO must suffer the consequences. Fine. So their cost of labor goes up 30%, their prices rise by 30%, so YOUR supplier buys at a 30% markup -- 9% of their gross -- and raises THEIR prices by 39%.

So YOU raise your prices by 42% to account for all of this. Under normal circumstances, the average fast food product has an elasticity of .81 -- that is, when you raise your prices by 100%, you likely lose 81% of your business or thereabouts.

But you didn't raise your prices by 100%, you raised them by 41%. And even then, everyone who was making 7.50 is now making 15 -- 100% increased wages, 41% increased costs, if LITERALLY EVERYONE IN THE CHAIN MADE MINIMUM WAGE.
~

But wait! Because everyone has more money, that means housing is going to spike! Well...yes and no. There will likely be some increased cost of housing, but the primary factor in t he price of housing, rents, leases, and purchases all, is scarcity, not necessarily demand. There will always be more 'soft' demand for houses than there are houses -- mostly because houses tend to be luxury purchases for the purpose of speculation, like stocks. So rents will not increase very highly, as the increased income opens up the market for all prospective renters, outside of some limited circumstances where people say, "But I don't want THOSE KINDS of people to live here," but I self-style myself an economist, not a sociologist.

But what about everyone making MORE than 15/hr?

Well, welcome to the new age, where you have leverage to demand a higher wage. If you're worth it, you'll get a raise. You can threaten to work at McGAF's flipping triangle-burgers(market differentiation) instead of where you do. That's leverage, and that leverage has been sorely missed over the last 30 years.

The people who would be worried about it -- those making $20+/hr, see diminishing returns in these price changes, because they tend to consume goods outside of the minimum wage sphere. Sure, their groceries are going to get more expensive, worst case scenario, but due to economics of scale, the shipping and production of those groceries already drives their prices downward. At $20/hour you end up losing probably about a thousand dollars per year.

~

Of course, this is without going into benefit analysis of this. The multiplier effect, increased demand due to normal elasticity effects from an increased MPC, fewer taxes needed after a certain point for welfare or food stamp participants -- of which the majority work, and a majority of those work full time.

But that brings us to something that doesn't quite gel. That is, California might have a minimum wage of 12, but Kentucky is using the federal minimum wage. Would Kentucky not be adversely affected by a semi-pricefloor when compared with California?

Well, yes. However, those increased costs can lead to increased demand in other areas, as well, which EVENTUALLY tends to pan out.

The immediate effect would be that some jobs WILL be lost. It's not arguable. People will lose their jobs. But the other side of that coin -- also not arguable -- is that those jobs will come back with MORE jobs because of increased MPC(more demand for products!), multiplier effects(more money being actively used!), and people moving to your area now that it pays well and makes enough to LOOK well, too.

"But Abstrusity," you ask, nibbling on a pinecone because the only grocery store in the county can't sell fruits of vegetables because they're too expensive to ship in, "what about my town of ManintheMountain(situated in the Appalachians), where there are no jobs?"

Well, keeping wages low isn't going to create jobs, and neither is lowering taxes. In fact, your town died long ago. You should probably rejoin society. You are one step away from being a dust bowl and the only reason you aren't is because when the ice caps melt it washes away all the dust.

I have zero patience for the attribution of economic failure to the minimum wage, the lazy, the indolent, the foreign, or what-have-you. They don't cause economic failure -- not in a capitalist society. Rather, what causes economic failure is a repeated failure to invest, a failure of business sense, an open decision to sacrifice long-term sustainability for short-term profit.

I am telling you, for those that decided this took too long to read(or can't because they attended a defunded public school so the governor's son could go to a private one funded by our tax dollars), that wages increasing is not just good in the long run, but the only shot we've got if we want to do more than limp ahead of recession, in danger of falling in once again if anything -- and I mean anything -- crumbles.
 

krazen

Member
Not sure what you are spouting on about. My point you can't just make a business disappear and not affect the people working there. And I'm sorry a low paying job is better than no job.

I put myself through college working shitty ass 5.75 an hour jobs like movie theaters and blockbuster. I've bettered myself at every job I've had to get into the career I'm in now. So don't even come at me like I don't know what it's like to have shit and eat ramen noodles every day.

You can come back to me when you grow up and stop being an entitled child.

LOL. Try that in 2016 when the cost of college has tripled in the last ten years and increasing everyone to 15 still wont keep up with the inflation that's happened in the last 30z

I hate the "Fuck you, I did it, why can't you".

My grandparents basically lived in shitty(literal) shack until they were able to the US; I guess i should want everyone to stay in latrine huts and struggle under a murderous dictatorship because it builds mettle.
 

Boney

Banned
You want GAF to explain it to you? Give me a break. The amount of macro economic and social transformations it would provoke cannot just be thought out as just the cost per employee for employers. And the fact that that's how you phrase the question makes you look incredibly ignorant.
 
I'm pretty confident my company would raise wages proportionally. There'd be a massive strike otherwise, as there would be no incentive for many people to stay.

Yes there would, because no one would quit their comfortable air conditioned job to work at McDonalds. People like to say if you could make $15 at McDonalds they'd quit their job and just work there. They're always fucking lying.
 
Yes there would, because no one would quit their comfortable air conditioned job to work at McDonalds. People like to say if you could make $15 at McDonalds they'd quit their job and just work there. They're always fucking lying.

Doesn't matter if they would or not, the threat of it is enough for leverage. I mean, consider what people think about jobs like McDonald's, anyway -- that it's easy, not stressful, "hurr durr flip burgers lolol xD"

Anyone who has worked there knows better.
 

NIGHT-

Member
it shouldn't go up to $15, that's just absurd and will bankrupt a lot of companies. It needs to be higher though
 
Doesn't matter if they would or not, the threat of it is enough for leverage. I mean, consider what people think about jobs like McDonald's, anyway -- that it's easy, not stressful, "hurr durr flip burgers lolol xD"

Anyone who has worked there knows better.

That won't be enough since employees have very little power in America. You quit, that's fine there are people out there who are fine with $15 but don't want to work at McDonalds because that job is "beneath them" who would take your spot.

Not to mention the better benefits that come with these comfy A/C jobs.
 

Foffy

Banned
Doesn't matter if they would or not, the threat of it is enough for leverage. I mean, consider what people think about jobs like McDonald's, anyway -- that it's easy, not stressful, "hurr durr flip burgers lolol xD"

Anyone who has worked there knows better.

Would you be alluding to this post of "wisdom" on the very first page?

This is a scary road to go down. In what world does this make any sense?

Business owners are taking a huge risk and if they have zero responsibility to pay entry level workers a "living" wage.

Min wage isn't meant to be a living wage. It's a starter job to gain skills. Skills equals more money.
 
it shouldn't go up to $15, that's just absurd and will bankrupt a lot of companies. It needs to be higher though

No, it ought to go up to $15, but not immediately. If we do things RIGHT, it WILL hit 15, as it SHOULD, because of inflation.

The problem is that we've seen a lot of inflation (try using the interest formula with yoy inflation since 1968) that wages have failed to keep up with. The result is a generally low demand, ghost towns, food deserts, mississippi -- it's just terrible, all around.
 

Bubba T

Member
Not sure what you are spouting on about. My point you can't just make a business disappear and not affect the people working there. And I'm sorry a low paying job is better than no job.

I put myself through college working shitty ass 5.75 an hour jobs like movie theaters and blockbuster. I've bettered myself at every job I've had to get into the career I'm in now. So don't even come at me like I don't know what it's like to have shit and eat ramen noodles every day.

You can come back to me when you grow up and stop being an entitled child.

Do you realize that people with college degrees are working at minimum wage?
 
Would you be alluding to this post of "wisdom" on the very first page?

Nah, just alluding to what people say about such 'non-skilled jobs.'

cartoon_soldier said:
Even most liberal economists are that national 15$ minimum wage is a bad idea and it's effects are unknown.

This is because they are leery of extrapolating. Raising the minimum wage to $15/hr is no different than raising it to $12 -- it just needs to take place over a longer period of time.

This COULD make the loss of jobs take longer or last longer before the upswing, but they don't really know how hard and fast it's going to hit, because we've kind of never done that, before.

Remember: 15/hr is more than 50% of the country makes.
 
Going off when the FMW peaked in 1968 in terms of buying power it should be at least $11/hr at this point to have kept up while states/cities raise it if needed based off the costs of living in the area while the federal wage raises in relation to the consumer price index to better combat buying power erosion. The biggest problem with the minimum wage as it is now is that it doesn't already do this, instead a generally overly conservative target is set and then it raises incrementally over a number of years and when the target is reached it just stays there and stagnates until the process repeats itself while never really reaching where it needs to be because the targets and increments aren't aggressive enough.


Big business CEO in this country has been pretty fucked from like the 80s onward and unfortunately there's not much that can be done about it out side of them cutting their own wages which isn't bloody likely. It's what happens when a greedy boardroom have the ability to vote pay increases and whatever other perks for themselves.
 
That won't be enough since employees have very little power in America. You quit, that's fine there are people out there who are fine with $15 but don't want to work at McDonalds because that job is "beneath them" who would take your spot.

Not to mention the better benefits that come with these comfy A/C jobs.

If they call your bluff, you stick around. If they don't, you get more money. It's a negotiation tactic made easier by upward pressure from higher wages. This is made easier by the fact that turnover is expensive, and training and acclimating a new employee is a strict loss of production in the short term -- it costs them money, often times more money than it would cost to pay you your raise, plus they lose all of your experience.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom