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[danm999]

We aren't ever going to get full conclusions to this. We all had different paths through the content and came away with differing interpretations. That alone makes this one of the most artistic games ever, and it actually used the medium to tell a story that only a game could.

What a brilliant game.

And I imagine that's the way it was designed. Look at how it extends the discussion and forces us to consider multiple viewpoints. It's very well done.

 

[thepotatoman]

Yeah this makes me a little uncomfortable too compared to the two others. Multiple personalities makes "crazy" basically the inciting incident and cause for pretty much everything in the game.

It's more that I don't like the implication that people with DID are simply "crazy", or the idea that people can determine the plausibility of DID when they're simply warping DID to fit whatever they need it to, despite likely having no real life frame of reference to it to be able to reach those conclusions.

Mental health problems are misunderstood and stigmatized enough as is, so I'd rather not propagate myths about it.

 

[danm999]

It's more that I don't like the implication that people with DID are simply "crazy", or the idea that people can determine the plausibility of DID when they're simply warping DID to fit whatever they need it to, despite likely having no real life frame of reference to it to be able to reach those conclusions.

Mental health problems are misunderstood and stigmatized enough as is, so I'd rather not propagate myths about it.

That's sort of what I mean as well.

Why did Simon die? She was crazy. Why did her parents die? She was crazy. The idea of mental illness just leads to a huge body count as a trope despite that not really being born out by the evidence in what we know about most mental illness.

 

[Sober]

Yeah, when taken together I feel the bruise, tattoo, two mirrors, speeding ticket, Glasgow hospital visit, and Oxford hotel stay pretty conclusively establish that Eve and Hannah are Real Actual Twins.

That said, I was really disappointed when I realized that the game was less about solving a mystery than it was exploring the laughably improbable history of these two siblings. I'm sure that the open-ended structure made proper pacing a nightmare to implement, but it really didn't feel like there were many interesting twists after the twin reveal, and I spent most of the back half of the game simply filling in backstory or confirming things I already knew. The FMV archive concept is super creative, and the attention to detail that went into making all these little pieces fit together is incredible, but I honestly think I might've preferred for that awesome structure to be employed in service of a more traditional whodunnit narrative.

Yeah I agree that after you kinda get the gist of the story at somewhere probably past 50% and before 75% you mostly are just filling in known gaps or covering what you've known before. A lot of the legwork is finding out it's 2 people (twins or personalities, however you take it) and maybe re-reviewing everything again in that context. But I think that is fine. But the 'game'-ness of the whole thing was fine to me, especially given the scale of the game and likely the production itself.

But this gives me hope a proper whodunit game could be possible maybe? Would still be a helluva feat to pull off though.

Hannah and Eve's parents dying in their sleep from food poisoning feels like really big loose end. I don't have all the possible videos but they never go past wondering why it would happen to basically a mushroom expert?

 

[SmiteOfHand]

Agreed. I hope people will not avoid this approach for fear of being shrugged off as a cheap clone. As well I hope people don't just make cheap clones. Will be nice if other games expand on the idea and it does not live and die with this one game.

 

[chrominance]

Hannah and Eve's parents dying in their sleep from food poisoning feels like really big loose end. I don't have all the possible videos but they never go past wondering why it would happen to basically a mushroom expert?

This whole part was odd to me. Hannah thinks it's weird that her dad wouldn't realize they've picked the wrong mushrooms. So naturally you think, okay, Eve did it (split personality or actual twin). But then Eve also says it's weird how the mushrooms got in when her dad should've known. Maybe Eve's putting on a show of not knowing for the police (and it would be interesting but a bit of a cheat if it turns out this is why Eve, an actual twin of Hannah, is in jail) but it could also be genuine.

I wonder if maybe it's suicide. Perhaps they found out about Eve and couldn't bear the guilt. It's quite the stretch, it's true, but there seem to be very few reasons why two people would die in their sleep in a house they supposedly live in alone.

 

[Sober]

It's just odd that it stands out because it seems like it has so much meaning (because this is a piece of created fiction) but no resolution to it short of really going the extra mile with what material you have to tie it up neatly.

On another note, it makes me wonder if a similar game could come out of this but it's about a cold case. That way you might not have to worry about like re-creating the scene of the crime, all you would have to work on is recordings, evidence on file and photos, written testimony and all that. Maybe less game-y in how the the thing is constructed but then in that sense you'd be better off solving an actual cold case.

 

[pakkit]

So, what I got out of the story was that Eve is the subconscious split personality of Hannah. She does not literally "exist" but she is a personality that manifests and acts maliciously on Hannah's behalf. Eve killed her step-mother (by "accidentally" pushing her down the stairs), Eve killed her biological parents (by poisoning them with mushrooms), and Eve killed Simon. When SB asks the player if they know what her mother did, they're talking about one person. So it's helpful to think of Hannah and Eve as two personalities embodied in one person. Ultimately, they're caught, which sets the game into motion.

I really loved the game, and it definitely has similar ideas to Shattered Memories. I wish it was longer, but for 5 dollars, the content matched the price. It's a good case study on how to "gamify" straight narrative.

 

[squall23]

I just went through the whole database chronologically thanks to the BLANK search trick. I'm of the opinion that the twins are real and this was all a farce to help Hannah escape for whatever reason. However, the thing is all theories have a giant "BUT......". It really isn't completely clear in any way. Multiple Personality Disorder doesn't feel right yet there are evidence that supports, just as I feel the twins existence is genuine but there are questions that arise due to it.

 

[ArjanN]

It's more that I don't like the implication that people with DID are simply "crazy", or the idea that people can determine the plausibility of DID when they're simply warping DID to fit whatever they need it to, despite likely having no real life frame of reference to it to be able to reach those conclusions.

Mental health problems are misunderstood and stigmatized enough as is, so I'd rather not propagate myths about it.

While I don't disagree that mental issues are often stigmatized in media, that doesn't really change that in this specific story them being actual twins makes way less sense both in theme and general plausibility than them being the same person.

I mean there's clearly meant to be some ambiguity there, but the split personality thing just fits a lot better.

 

[Jindrax]

Do you get diffrent endings depending on what you answer to the text messages?
Also, I still have some holes in the story:
He gave the same present to both sister and that's why Hannah killed him?
Then they figured out a plan to get away with the murder?
What's the reason that Eve is not in jail for helping Hannah out?
Also where is Hannah? She escaped?
And why is Eve on the police pc?

 

[Inkwell]

Do you get diffrent endings depending on what you answer to the text messages?
Also, I still have some holes in the story:
He gave the same present to both sister and that's why Hannah killed him?
Then they figured out a plan to get away with the murder?
What's the reason that Eve is not in jail for helping Hannah out?
Also where is Hannah? She escaped?
And why is Eve on the police pc?

You don't get different endings. From your questions it sounds like you haven't "ended" the game or seen all the videos. I recommend you do that first before coming into the spoiler thread. If you have and are just confused, There's some good analysis and summaries in the thread, and probably some on youtube as well. Some of your questions have answers, but some is left up to interpretation and guesswork. I don't want to say too much yet if you haven't seen everything.

 

[AkuMifune]

After listening to other developers discuss this game, interviews with SB, and a couple nights going through the database again I think the whole intent of the game is for people to build their own narrative based on the evidence they find (and probably) largely due to what order they find it in. Obviously there are two main conclusions, but there are fringe theories outside these camps and now I sincerely doubt there is a canonical "true" one despite all of the evidence that can be piled on either hypothesis. I don't think any interpretation can be considered wrong, even one she's a pathological liar and none of it is true as there is no definitive evidence for anything, only testimony.

And I don't mind if people disagree with the conclusions others have, but mocking anyone's different conclusion is not only moronic, it cheapens the well-crafted non-linear narrative that has been built here. The "point" is probably that there are multiple conclusions and the player can legitimately build their own. Certainly this 3-hour $5 game will be in my GOTY list somewhere and that's pretty rad.

With my luck he'll probably come out now and say oh no, it was triplets the whole time you idiot.

 

[Neuromancer]

I'm going with the twin theory because it's more entertaining and DID stories have been done to death.

 

[Oxymoron]

He gave the same present to both sister and that's why Hannah killed him?

Simon gave Hannah a mirror as a present and played up how it was unique and one of a kind and how it reflected what she meant to him.

And then he gave Hannah-as-Eve the same present and that's why she killed him in a fit of rage.

Then they figured out a plan to get away with the murder?

Yeah. Eve drove to Glasgow for the alibi, they hid Simon's body in the cellar and pretended to discover it a week later, and planted the watch to establish a time of death.

What's the reason that Eve is not in jail for helping Hannah out?

I don't think we know that's the case? The last thing we know is that Eve is confessing and gloating, we don't know what happens after.

Also where is Hannah? She escaped?

According to Eve, yeah, she would have escaped in early July while Eve stood in for her.

And why is Eve on the police pc?

Hmm? Sarah, the daughter, is on the PC.

 

[EatChildren]

I think Hannah/Eve are the same person, no split personality. It was all a deliberate construct to lead the police on a goosechase to chase a Hannah that doesn't exist.

 

[Inkwell]

I think Hannah/Eve are the same person, no split personality. It was all a deliberate construct to lead the police on a goosechase to chase a Hannah that doesn't exist.

I've been wondering if this is the case the more I think about it. It does explain some of the biggest issues with the other theories. It creates its own set of problems though. One being the whole mirror theme makes little sense. I would go into more detail but I'm at work on my phone.

 

[Jindrax]

it's not, the whole bruise thing was clearly put in to differentiate he characters.
It's twins. Any other interpretation is us reaching imo

 

[Noaloha]

One rather broad interpretation of the game's story might boil down to being that of a mother going to great lengths to tell/craft her child a fairy tale, one with all the gruesomeness that fairy tale's once embraced.

 

[eshock]

One problem I have with the "lie/wild goose chase" theory is that, if Eve wants the police to go looking for a "Hannah" that doesn't exist, she admits WAY too much complicity in the murder and implicates herself as an accessory. She's still looking at a jail sentence even if they believe her.

I'm leaning DID even though I'm far from certain, and on that subject, Vice had a really good article about it last month, which contains a video featuring interviews with 5 different personalities from within the same "system."

https://www.vice.com/read/when-multiple-personalities-are-not-a-disorder-400

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IA5ewFS4ga8

 

[jg4xchamp]

I just recently beat it. So I kind of lean towards the split personality thing, but the Tatoo bugs me. That itself makes me think two different people. But there is an ending video where "Eve" tells the cop can you arrest a person that doesn't exist, and I'm going to take that as a definitive split personality thing.

Either way I felt the plot itself and the payoff being psycho chick was a bit underwhelming, but I really liked how the whole game is told. The ending could be more interesting, but I guess that depends on what videos you find?

 

[AkuMifune]

They covered this game on Polygon's Quality Control podcast where they discuss their review process, and the reviewer said when she interviewed Sam Barlow he said there was a canonical ending because he need a frame of reference for writing the story. She also asked if the mistake during the knock game was intentional or the actress messed up, and he said 'no comment.' But there goes my 'he wants it to be ambiguous on purpose' theory.

I think the physical evidence of the bruise and tattoo are so on the nose they have to be misleading. It's just too obvious for a game that has so many subtle elements. But I wouldn't be surprised either way. And I kinda hope we never find out.

 

[SmiteOfHand]

Not to toot my own horn but you new DID theory crowd maybe consider reading my post, if you missed it, on switching from DID to Twins. Not to change your minds necessarily but I think elements like the 2 mirrors are important to have grappled with to discuss things further.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=170638235#post170638235

 

[Moobabe]

They covered this game on Polygon's Quality Control podcast where they discuss their review process, and the reviewer said when she interviewed Sam Barlow he said there was a canonical ending because he need a frame of reference for writing the story. She also asked if the mistake during the knock game was intentional or the actress messed up, and he said 'no comment.' But there goes my 'he wants it to be ambiguous on purpose' theory.

I think the physical evidence of the bruise and tattoo are so on the nose they have to be misleading. It's just too obvious for a game that has so many subtle elements. But I wouldn't be surprised either way. And I kinda hope we never find out.

I think the game has both - I mean the song she sings is pretty heavy handed too.

 

[Inkwell]

I have a question. Let's say that the twin scenario is correct. It's what Eve admits to in the final interview. She kind of goes back on it saying they were just stories, but lets ignore that. It's the most on the nose answer since you are specifically told this. If it's the case, why would Sam Barlow be so hesitant to admit it was the canonical ending? Why have players been told they have to come up with an interpretation of the story for themselves? It has to be only 1 of 2 situations:

1. They are twins, but there is much more going on. Perhaps the ending interview is about the disappearance of Hannah, or maybe there's entirely something else going on.

2. It's not twins. It's either the DID or criminal genius scenario.

 

[SmiteOfHand]

She confesses everything because the detective had already worked out there was a twin and directly confronted them on it, and the lie detector caught her lying about her name. There was no point in putting on the show anymore and she was confident they had no hard evidence because they have a false murder weapon (and only one of the twins).

Sarah's plot line is what leads the belief that her confidence was misplaced, but even then Eve's fate is unclear.

 

[BlackJace]

I dunno, I just can't see how a child can grow up in an attic.

"Aw she crazy" is ever so slightly underwhelming, but the whole mirrors theme and credit scene special effects make way too much sense.

The Mirror Game alone seems like a super giveaway.

 

[mattiewheels]

I still haven't finished this yet, I just had to say that the first time the guitar pops up for me, and she's just holding it and not even acknowledging it, was one of the most hilarious moments I've had in a while. It was just so random, ha.

 

[Roussow]

The one thing sticking with me, is after Eve had taken the lie detector test -- there's a video file where she just goes, "I failed one question? Oh, my name -- that's about right". I saw the video that her hooked up to the machine where she said, "my name Hannah Smith, oh, shit!". That scene where she split the coffee, too, made me realize the costume change.

Oh and that foreshadowing with the recycling bin, loved it.

 

[Wok]

Search for kettle. You will find two videos of the same story told by Hannah and by Eve.

I don't get why the detective asked both women the same question.

Interestingly, words are identical. Only the tone is different. So either there has been a rehearsal, or Hannah and Eve are the same person with different personalities, or thrid option: one of the two women is only remembering what she read in the diary, hence the cold tone.

The only explanation for the tattoo with split personality is that it's a temporary tattoo that she continuously applied and removed.

I was leaning toward twins? I got the sense that the cops were bringing in both sisters, knowing they were there, but the sisters were unaware that the other was also in with them. There's a video from July 2nd in which Eve is like "Twins? You serious brah?" It also explains the very rehearsed, near-identical alibis we hear from both of them on consecutive days (30th and 1st). But then...Eve thinks Hannah is dead? So that part doesn't quite make sense...

These are the videos I am referring to.

I think the cops have just started to figure out on July 2nd the game that the twins are playing on them. They're alternating days (deliberately) in explaining the story so they can explain the parts that they know the best. For unavoidable things, they've agreed on word-for-word explanations, but to really sell things like Glasgow, they need Eve to come in.

So between July 2nd and 3rd, Hannah gets scared and splits. Eve sticks around because she's not the murderer. Knowing the jig is up and that Hannah has hidden herself, Eve explains all.

It's two people folks. Tattoo, bruises, coffee.

To me, the biggest dangling question is "Who killed Hannah's parents?" and the obvious answer seems to be Eve.

Also, how does any of this help the baby?



She's speaking about herself- she's said multiple times that hidden in florence's house and then the attic, she's felt as though she doesn't exist. Hannah has gone off into hiding once the alibi has been blown away, and Eve sees no reason to run.

This makes a lot of sense. Hannah got mad and killed Simon when she realized that Eve beared Simon's baby. At the birthday, Eve told Hannah she was pregnant but Hannah ignored who the father was. When Simon mistook Hannah for Eve and offered her a second "unique" mirror in the attic, she saw her reflection in the mirror with the blonde wig, understood whose baby Eve got, got mad at her prince, who cheated on the princess for a slut, and killed Simon.

Hannah and Eve deny the existence of the twins at first, and appear at the police as though they were the same person. When Hannah makes a mistake revealing the existence of Eve, the police suspects Eve, which gives time for Hannah to disappear. From then on, we see interrogations of Eve, which ultimately lead to the revelation that Hannah is the murderer, the lie detector is being used on Eve to determine whether Eve is Hannah. In the end, Hannah is on the run, Eve has her baby but serves her time in jail on behalf of Hannah. We try to understand why Eve did what she did, i.e. sacrificed herself for her sister. Somehow, Eve who lived hidden, then in the attic, went to jail on behalf of the woman she was pretending to be all these years.

Nah. Eve is the one who got pregnant and yet Hannah had the baby.

I don't think so. I think Eve got pregnant and Eve got the baby and named if Sarah as Hannah would have liked. We play as Eve's daughter.

Love the theories, guys! I also like to think its split personality, but the tattoo thing is kinda hard to ignore, I think its lame if its just a temporary tattoo. But the biggest favor in the split personality thing really is that one person cant live in the attic for ten years without people noticing, its just crazy (even if some things can go against like, like when Hannah says that she was late for school and still in her underwear then her mother got mad and Eve appeared dressed in 5 seconds ready to go).

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...54057/Homeless-woman-comes-out-of-closet.html

Hannah sliced Simon's throat, but it was out of anger for him cheating on her (He got Eve pregnant, and when Hannah dressed up as Eve and confronted him, he gave her the same present he gave Hannah earlier that year - the antique mirror that's only good for "people who don't like their reflection"). Eve was still in the hospital from hitting the taxi with her car at that time. When she came back, they hid the body together and rehearsed their alibi. Then sometime in July, probably 7/1, Hannah disappears. Eve stops pretending to be Hannah, taunts that the police can't arrest someone who doesn't exist, and says that "her sister is never coming back."

I'm not entirely sure what SB is talking about either, but I think it might be in reference to Eve killing Hannah. In the very last clip, Eve says "You have no murder weapon. You have nothing." But she can't be talking about Simon, because they have that murder weapon. Florence was pushed down the steps and Hannah and Eve's parents were poisoned with death caps. The only other missing character is Hannah.

True.

 

[Sorcerer]

Yeah I agree that after you kinda get the gist of the story at somewhere probably past 50% and before 75% you mostly are just filling in known gaps or covering what you've known before. A lot of the legwork is finding out it's 2 people (twins or personalities, however you take it) and maybe re-reviewing everything again in that context. But I think that is fine. But the 'game'-ness of the whole thing was fine to me, especially given the scale of the game and likely the production itself.

But this gives me hope a proper whodunit game could be possible maybe? Would still be a helluva feat to pull off though.

Hannah and Eve's parents dying in their sleep from food poisoning feels like really big loose end. I don't have all the possible videos but they never go past wondering why it would happen to basically a mushroom expert?

I assume Hannah was well versed in mushrooms as well. Her dad would never suspect Hannah would use that knowledge to kill them. Trust from his daughter was implicit and she took advantage of that. I am sure once cooked or mixed in with other food the mushrooms would be less identifiable anyway. Very easy to conclude it was accidental from the outside.

 

[Wok]

D308: "dad use to plant mushrooms" in the cellar (edit: disregard, I am always confusing cellar and attic)

D328: common backbone of both theories

Also compare D307 and D420, they do not use the same hand:

Unfortunately, they pick their drink with the right hand all the time, except for the D5xx series (D527.avi). Actually, in the D5xx series, Eve even uses her left-hand to play the guitar.

D516: "you asked that question yesterday" (so Hannah must have told Eve about the questions, which is consistent with the rehearsal), however later on, she asks a question about the camera recording, which she already asked the day before, so she does not "remember" everything.

D733: there are mirrors in the dollhouse. Before, there is also the mention of magical mirrors in fairy tales.

D738: identical handwriting, so both are similarly handed and cannot be the reflection of one another.

D755: Eve and Simon go to the beach together. It might be the time Hannah wanted to drown Eve.

D767: Mirror cut:

I think the Dissociative Identity Disorder [DID] theory is a valid interpretation of the story and one the author intended as a possibility. I also think the origin story for Eve as a twin is kind of garbage and highly implausible, however implausible and impossible are very different.

That said I've given it a, probably unreasonable, amount of thought and I think Eve is a twin and not a personality. What follows is a stupidly long post of somewhat raw transcripts on various topics and my interpretation as what I think is the strongest evidence that Eve is a real person, so grab something to eat if you are heading in...

MURDER WEAPON - 2 MIRRORS

• Hannah agrees to discuss the argument and is hesitent to get into the details. (25/06/94, D210)
• Hannah states Simon gave her the present and states 'I guess I didn't like the present' (25/06/94, D211)
• Hannah confirms the present was a mirror. (25/06/94, D212)
• Eve responds to a detective query about the mirror. States she thinks it is upstairs. (27/06/94, D350)
• Hannah picks up the mirror in an evidence bag confirms Simon made it himself as a special one off. Asks where they found it. (30/06/94, D417)
• Hannah denies silverleaf and states he silvers them properly. (30/06/94, D418)
• Hannah responds to a detective query about 'being on his clothes.' States that makes sense as he made it by hand, brushing the silver onto the glass. (30/06/94, D419)
• Hannah puts the mirror down, touches her throat and asks 'In his throat? How?' (30/06/94, D420)
• Eve states Hannah was wearing Eve's wig, pretending to be her. Stated Simon wanted to be with her. (03/07/94, D767)
• Eve states Simon pulled out 'another mirror' just like the one he'd given Hannah earlier. 'That unique present.' (03/07/94, D767)
• Eve states Hannah went crazy and smashed the mirror. (03/07/94, D767)
• Eve states Simon hit her so she grabbed a piece of the mirror and swung it around and cut his throat clean open. (03/07/94, D767)
• Eve states they bagged up the broken mirror and her clothes. 'They're gone.' (03/07/94, D768)
• Eve states they, the police, have no murder weapon. (03/07/94, D771)

The video D767.avi is the most important video of all the videos recorded. It states, in no uncertain terms, that Hannah dressed up as Eve, convinced Simon she was Eve, Simon admitted he wanted to be with Eve and gave her (Hannah dressed as Eve) a duplicate of her unique mirror. This is the reason Hannah lost it and killed Simon. It is an absolutely vital scene to explain everything else that happened.

The fact that there are 2 mirrors is one of the strongest arguments that Eve was a twin. Simon was completely convinced Eve was another person. Eve is confident in the final moments that the police have no murder weapon because they have Hannah's unbroken mirror, not the murder weapon. There being 2 mirrors is an absolutely vital component to the story. One mirror being broken and being the murder weapon, and one being intact and in the police's possession is vital to the closing scene.

FINGERPRINTS

• Hannah agrees to having her fingerprints taken. States she burnt her hand on the oven once. (25/06/94, D230)
• Hannah responds to a detective query about fingerprints. (30/06/94, D403)
• Hannah states no one has been in in the last few weeks besides a plumber. (30/06/94, D404)
• Hannah responds to a detective query about the bedroom. (30/06/94, D405)
• Hannah discusses her dusting regiment. Says she dusts weekly, maybe every few weeks. (30/06/94, D406)
• Hannah responds to a detective query that appears to be the last time she dusted or cleaned. A week or so ago. (30/06/94, D407)
• Hannah states she 'would have cleaned them too' and she changed the sheets too. Asks 'were the fingerprints in all those places?' (30/06/94, D408)
• Hannah suggests the possibility they are her parents fingerprints. (30/06/94, D409)
• Hannah responds to a detective query offering her cup saying 'run your fingerprints' and saying 'they'll match.' (02/07/94, D607)

Based on the line of questioning from the detectives and the responses to those questions it is a reasonable assumption that the police found an unaccountable set of fingerprints in the bedroom. Three total fingerprints. Simon, Hannah, and Unknown. The unknown fingerprints were Eve's.

PREGNANCY

• Hannah states she got pregnant with Simon's baby. (25/06/94, D218)
• Eve corroborates the pregnancy. (03/07/94, D744)
• Eve states she tried multiple times to get pregnant and it didn't happen. (03/07/94, D745)

This makes absolutely no sense from the DID perspective. If Hannah and Eve are the same person, when Hannah got pregnant Eve then went and had sex multiple times to also get pregnant so they could keep up their swapping lifestyle. Eve is not able to get pregnant. If they occupied the same body, she would have had sex, taken a pregnancy test, and it would have been positive. The pregnancy and miscarriage plot line does not work with the DID theory.

HAIRBRUSH

• Eve states they took Hannah's virginity using a hairbrush. (03/07/94, D743)

If Hannah and Eve occupy the same body it is kind of difficult for her to lose her virginity twice.

TICKET

• Eve confirms she is in the photo of the speeding ticket back in February. (01/07/94, D526)
• Eve states she popped out to get something and did not mark it on her timesheet. (01/07/94, D527)

GUITAR

• Hannah denies Simon plays guitar and was not very musical. (30/06/94, D445)
• Hannah confirms that it is her guitar. Video cuts off early for the first time. (30/06/94, D446)
• Eve agrees to play guitar and sings a song. (01/07/94, D536)

I think the ticket and the guitar are the strongest evidence that the police knew something was up and were working out what exactly. They bring up the discrepancy with Hannah being in two places at once by receiving a speeding ticket and also being at work.

The guitar is also very important. If you watch the final videos for Day 4 they start questioning Hannah about a guitar and the video abruptly ends. Every day prior it is clear we have the entire video. It starts with Eve or Hannah just arriving and getting a drink, and ends with her getting up and leaving. On day 4 the video just end. Maybe this has to do with the missing volume in the DB Checker.

This is purely my speculation but I think if the video were to keep going it would be clear that Hannah has no idea how to play a guitar. This would be in stark contrast to Eve picking up the guitar the following day and singing a ballad. Maybe the author took it out because it made it too obvious? Who knows, but the video absolutely cuts out early. Go watch it for yourself.

GLASGOW

• Eve details her trip to Glasgow. (27/06/94, D309-D312)
• Eve maps out her trip to Glasgow. (27/06/94, D333)
• Hannah reiterates she was in Glasgow and asks if they spoke with the hospital. (02/07/94, D603)
• Detective appears to accuse Hannah of sounding rehearsed. (02/07/94, D604)
• Detective appears to ask about twins. (02/07/94, D605)
• Hannah angrily ends the interrogation early and leaves. (02/07/94, D609)
• Eve reiterates the trip to Glasgow. (03/07/94, D764)

When Hannah challenges the detective about her alibi of being in Glasgow when the murder happened their response does not appear to be that they did not check. This was my first interpretation. Instead the detective responds by accusing her of sounding rehearsed, and asking about a twin. This line of questioning says to me that the detective did confirm Glasgow, and the speeding ticket and the guitar are part of trying to figure out if she could be in two places at once and increasingly finding evidence of things not adding up. If any character is deserving of brilliant mastermind it is the detective's ability to deduce something as radical as an undocumented twin.

BRUISE

• The first time we see Eve she has no bruise. (18/06/94, D101)
• The first time we see Hannah she has the bruise. (25/06/94, D201)
• Hannah states she got the bruise from slipping and slamming her face into a cupboard (25/06/94, D203)
• The next time we see Eve the bruise is missing again, 2 days layer. (27/06/94, D301)
• Eve touches the wrong side of her face when asked about the bruise. (27/06/94, D304)
• The next time we see Hannah, 13 days after the murder, the bruise is gone. (30/06/94, D401)
• Eve states the origin of the bruise is when she hit Hannah. (03/07/94, D763)

This has been discussed to death, but in conjunction with all the other evidence is important. Yes, if it is DID then there are plausible explanations for the bruise coming and going, but that does not change the fact that it comes and goes.

TATTOO

• The first time we see Hannah she has no tattoo. (25/06/94, D201)
• The next time we see Hannah she still has no tattoo. (30/06/94, D401)
• Eve spills coffee on herself. (01/07/94, D503)
• Revealing a tattoo of an apple and a snake she got to 'express her individuality.' (01/07/94, D505)
• Eve states she got it about 8 years back as a present to herself. (01/07/94, D506)
• Eve reiterates she got the tattoo nearly 10 years prior. (03/07/94, D752)

Same as the bruise. Too important to ignore.

..phew...

Feels nice to get that all out of my brain and if you stuck around this long then a huge high five from me. A few closing thoughts. I think the fact that the game NEVER mentions or hints at DID, MPD, split personalities or mental sickness is ultimately the point of the game. I think it was fully Sam Barlow's intention that people will see a woman in this position and naturally gravitate to "she is crazy, obviously". It didn't need to be said because we will do it automatically by constructing narrative and reading into subtext that doesn't necessarily exist.

Instead he spent all his time and effort constructing a crazy but plausible alternative possibility and completely lays it at the players feet in full detail, and still, with absolutely no explicit evidence we will still argue "yep, she is crazy, clearly." Call it an art game or whatever bullshit you want, but this is my interpretation of the narrative and what I believe was the fully intentional critique to how we view women who commit violent crimes in the heat of passion.

Hannah Smith caught her husband cheating on her with her twin sister, felt absolutely betrayed by the only 2 people who matter the most in her life and lost it. End of story.

You convinced me. I am going to watch the videos again.

 

[Tenrius]

snip

This makes the most sense from what I've read so far. Especially the brush/pregnancy, I don't see how the DID theory would explain that. The biggest gripe I have with the twins theory is the implausibilit of their childhood, but since we are talking fairy tales and all that, maybe that was like a fantasy and Eve somehow did exist as a normal twin? The only people who would know would be their parents. Then again, there would be the matter of official records and such.


I also don't see how the parents wouldn't notice Eve (or Hannah for that matter) living in the attic, regardless of whether either of them killed them. Any thoughts on that?

If any character is deserving of brilliant mastermind it is the detective's ability to deduce something as radical as an undocumented twin.

Can't help imagining McNulty, Bunk and Lester from The Wire sitting in that interrogation room now lol.

 

[Sorcerer]

If the detectives really wanted to know the truth about Hannah and Eve being twins, couldn't they just setup surveillance to watch her/them in real life?

 

[Bobs Big Boy]

Spent a good amount of time thinking it over and coming back to fragments, what a game.

Connect most with theories of duality. Have come to some conclusion that Eve is the primary person and Hannah is only a personality split. Still have a couple kinks in that to work out. The multiple person theory feels too easy, convenient for writing with this much thought put into it. There's more to dissect.

 

[SmiteOfHand]

I also don't see how the parents wouldn't notice Eve (or Hannah for that matter) living in the attic, regardless of whether either of them killed them. Any thoughts on that?

Eve's origin story is weak but given some time now I've softened slightly on it. All of the information about Eve and Hannah's childhood are memories removed by a couple decades and it is stated that it may not be completely accurate or embellished. Hell, if you tell a story of events that happened a month ago you will very likely get a few things wrong.

With that in mind babies do get swapped and kidnapped even today in great big hospitals with fancy security with the person not being caught. The idea that a midwife in a house could skeeter off with a 'stillbirth twin' is well within reality. But this is still second hand information, from the diary, and a memory from when Eve was very young.

I would argue that all details from when they were children to young adults has a shield of 'could be kind of bullshit/false memory'. This protects Barlow from potential plot holes because it can always be said that they got details from their childhood wrong. For example, Eve could have been much older when crossing the street, even into early teenage years (13 is still quite young) and by then parents, especially busy parents as stated they were, are much more likely to give their children personal space. Particularly in the west we are very big on teenagers having their own room/privacy.

Point being the details of the twin origin doesn't really matter. All that matters is the broad strokes are plausible, which they are. It is plausible that a child can be kidnapped at birth. It is plausible that child could have reunited with their twin (especially if they are right across the street). The details of how that stuff went down has been given to us from a dirty lens, removed by time and colored by active imaginations.

If the detectives really wanted to know the truth about Hannah and Eve being twins, couldn't they just setup surveillance to watch her/them in real life?

For all we know they could have. We have reason to believe Eve ended up in prison so there are all sorts of possibilities outside of the interrogations of what the detective could have done to gather evidence.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

I'm very unsatisfied with the ambiguity this game ultimately leaves us with. I believe ambiguity can work well in heavily theme focused works, but that clearly isn't what Her Story is.

I'm sorely tempted to dismiss the game entirely, but I'd like to ask this: can anyone give me an example of a non abstract/heavily theme focused work that is both highly ambiguous and critically acclaimed? I really believe that leaving things ambiguous to create discussion, if that was the intent, was an awful idea, but I'm open to being proven wrong. I'd like some perspective, if someone could oblige.

 

[SmiteOfHand]

Blade Runner.

Spoiler

(Which you will say is heavily themed, but I disagree that Her Story does not maintain a theme.)

 

[Fimbulvetr]

Interesting. I'm not too familiar with the whole situation, but doesn't Blade Runner have a lot of different cuts, with one preferred by the director that includes material that makes it less ambiguous (the unicorn dream)?

Even so, the central elements of that film aren't ambiguous from what I remember (I haven't seen it in years), and I could see an argument that the big question you're left with being meaningless is actually one of the films biggest goals. Her Story's ambiguity is so intense that it makes virtually everything about it impossible to parse. I think Shattered Memories was much better about this, for instance. Though it had multiple endings, its central themes were constant and communicated regardless of the outcomes of the various choices. In Her Story, theme, character, even basic plot are all up in the air.

 

[Wensih]

I started freaking out last night during the last interrogation when Eve seems to be confessing everything. There's background noise in one clip where you can distinctly hear someone say HANNAH off camera. It's when Eve is talking about her STD. I'm not sure if there's been any discussion of this yet; I'm still playing (I have 7 videos that I need to find).

 

[Lady Siara]

A lot of the issues people are having with the dissociative identity disorder theory can be explained by the recurrent amnesia that happens when a person suffering from DID switches personalities. In severe cases, people lose hours or days between personality switches, like they were blacked out that entire time. Keeping a detailed diary so the two personalities could keep track of what the other was doing along with several other nuances and ticks throughout the interviews makes the theory more plausible for me.

The stress from Hannah's miscarriage, the car accident and their parents' death resurfacing Eve is in line with stress often exacerbating DID symptoms. Both personalities have their own unique fidgeting when uncomfortable. Communicating between personalities by using a code (the cat's bell had strange wording, the knock code) shows a desire to obscure the condition. Eve's impulsive behavior (carefree sex, possible murder of Florence (if she existed) and parents, irritation during later interviews) makes her an overt and dominant personality vs. Hannah's introverted and shy nature. Lots of Eve's actions are ego-dystonic, like Hannah's insulted reaction to being asked if Hannah had ever had an affair. A disjointed sense of agency emerges when Eve initially discovered Simon was missing. She decided to shower (presumably to wash off the blood from killing Simon), ignore the phone call from Eric and even lie down and sleep. Changes in preferences (coffee black vs sugar with milk) are also a symptom of swapping between personalities. Dissociative amnesia (a symptom of DID) surfaces in gaps of memory in life events (speeding ticket), forgetting how to do frequent tasks (like driving), and discovering "surprises" in your daily life (boxes were magically moved from their usual spot in the cellar). Forgetting her own name during the polygraph test is also an immediately visible amnestic symptom. Self-injury is also quite common in subjects with DID. Obsessive-compulsive symptoms (obsession over palindromes and symmetry in names) have a bit of overlap in DID subjects, especially as they age. Another huge alarm that initially set off my DID suspicions were the segments where she was supposed to analyze cards. They're quite introspective. It appears that much of the personality swapping happens when she sleeps.

Tangentially related, I had a professor in college bring in a colleague's patient suffering from DID. She was largely stable and was able to talk about it openly: the trauma, her personalities, and how it affected her personal life. We even got to ask her questions. It was an incredible experience!

Anyways, my current thinking is that Hannah and Eve were twins, and Eve was a stillborn. Some sort of unstated psychological trauma happened either through tons of surgery as an infant or abuse to Hannah as a toddler. As much as a cop out as this seems, it can take months or even years to unravel, prod and get to the source trauma of a DID subject. Eve fabricated her "life" before assimilating with Hannah on their fifth birthday. The two coexisted throughout school and the parents thought little of it. They probably assumed it was the equivalent of an imaginary friend. The attic with the large dollhouse on it came across to me as both a real place and an imaginary one within her mind. That's where the personalities would stay when they weren't needed. Hannah killed Simon in a fit of jealousy because Simon liked her more as Eve than he did as Hannah. Hannah hides the body, gets in the car and drives off. She falls asleep, switches to Eve, who isn't a good driver and gets in the accident. She eventually comes back, discovers Simon after discovering the boxes were in a different area, and changes his watch so her alibi will stick and she can frame Hannah. Hannah is put in the attic to try and save Eve, hence the "can you arrest someone who doesn't exist?"

I have to say, I'm surprised that after reading most of the thread, I haven't entirely ruled out the twin theory. Is it ridiculous? Sure, but I haven't found anything to outright disprove either theory yet. Seems like for each aha moment I have, I can counter it with a relatively simple explanation.

It could be Ganser's syndrome too but I'd really rather not introduce a third possibility. Much love if you read this far.

The fact that there are 2 mirrors is one of the strongest arguments that Eve was a twin.

I never thought Simon making two mirrors confirmed the twin theory. If anything, I'd say it was a test of Simon's to see how she would react and if she would remember, except it backfired horribly because it was Hannah pretending to be Eve instead of Eve.

Based on the line of questioning from the detectives and the responses to those questions it is a reasonable assumption that the police found an unaccountable set of fingerprints in the bedroom. Three total fingerprints. Simon, Hannah, and Unknown. The unknown fingerprints were Eve's.

The third set of fingerprints, if I had to guess, may have been the plumber's, who Eve may have slept with.

This makes absolutely no sense from the DID perspective. If Hannah and Eve are the same person, when Hannah got pregnant Eve then went and had sex multiple times to also get pregnant so they could keep up their swapping lifestyle. Eve is not able to get pregnant. If they occupied the same body, she would have had sex, taken a pregnancy test, and it would have been positive. The pregnancy and miscarriage plot line does not work with the DID theory.

Eve was not able to get pregnant because Hannah was already pregnant. Hannah had a miscarriage and then Eve became pregnant with Simon's child after their affair.

Also, both Eve and Hannah claimed to be infertile so this point seems moot.

If Hannah and Eve occupy the same body it is kind of difficult for her to lose her virginity twice.

When Hannah is dormant, it's really not. Eve helping Hannah do it with a brush is a bit strange, though.

For what it's worth, breaking the hymen is a myth if that is your gauge of virginity loss.

I think the ticket and the guitar are the strongest evidence that the police knew something was up and were working out what exactly. They bring up the discrepancy with Hannah being in two places at once by receiving a speeding ticket and also being at work.
...

This is purely my speculation but I think if the video were to keep going it would be clear that Hannah has no idea how to play a guitar. This would be in stark contrast to Eve picking up the guitar the following day and singing a ballad. Maybe the author took it out because it made it too obvious? Who knows, but the video absolutely cuts out early. Go watch it for yourself.

The ticket could be explained by Eve being the one that works, switching to Hannah at work and not knowing her responsibilities at work. Eve's explanation comes across as something she couldn't possibly remember and grasping for straws, so she was probably dormant at the time.

The guitar bit, again, can be explained by having different professions in different personalities. Eve can't drive very well but can play guitar, Hannah can drive but may not be able to play guitar. It's even possible for an alternate personality to speak an entirely different language.

THEY'RE THE SAME PERSON HERP DERP

It's incredible for a story to be this thought provoking for multiple interpretations, so let's celebrate it instead of throwing a tantrum.

 

[SmiteOfHand]

I enjoyed reading your thoughts, thanks for that. As I've mentioned I do think the DID theory is valid and have been hoping someone would take up analyzing things from that perspective. I don't have the energy to go back through it all from that perspective.

I am a little confused as to what you are suggesting here...

Eve was not able to get pregnant because Hannah was already pregnant.

Eve states she tried multiple times to get pregnant but was not able to. How does she know she was not pregnant? Pregnancy tests don't obey DID logic last I checked.

 

[Lady Siara]

Eve states she tried multiple times to get pregnant but was not able to. How does she know she was not pregnant? Pregnancy tests don't obey DID logic last I checked.

I must have misread the bit I quoted. I'm drawing a blank on explanations as the miscarriage was late into the pregnancy so it's not like she was waiting to miss a period and then checking. She even said she was probably missing her period because Hannah was.

The more I try and think about this point, the more confused I get. The STD Eve gets was my theory for Hannah's miscarriage but I'm puzzled. The first time Eve sleeps with Simon, she gets pregnant. So it would seem neither of the two personalities/twins were infertile.

Hannah and Eve share boys
Eve meets Simon and Hannah wants him all to herself
Hannah gets pregnant, marries Simon, moves in with Simon's parents and Eve is retired to the attic (for 6 months?)
Eve gets jealous, starts sneaking out and having wreckless sex with homeless men and strangers
Eve gets an STD and has to stop // Hannah has her miscarriage [I don't know the chronology of these two events]
Eve poisons their parents to move into their home and reunite with Hannah once again
Simon finds Eve singing and the two of them have an affair
The first time they sleep together, Eve is impregnated

Am I missing anything here? Trying to piece this all together as best as I can.

The ticket could be explained by Eve being the one that works, switching to Hannah at work and not knowing her responsibilities at work. Eve's explanation comes across as something she couldn't possibly remember and grasping for straws, so she was probably dormant at the time.

Just wanted to tidy this up and say that as I was rewatching some videos I flagged, Hannah talked about how she was the one at work on her birthday. So they may both work or just Hannah. Perhaps Eve wasn't active during this event at all.

It seems like both theories have one big flaw to them. The DID theory becomes a mess with the pregnancy saga and the twins theory becomes a mess with the Bob Dylan concert.

 

[cj_iwakura]

Sheesh, I thought they were twins all the way to the end, never thought they pulled a Killer7.

 

[MattKeil]

Sheesh, I thought they were twins all the way to the end, never thought they pulled a Killer7.

They were twins. The multiple personality idea doesn't hold water. The bruise and the tattoo are clear indications they're separate people. The actual implication is that one sister has been killing people to remain "identical" to the other all these years.

 

[kiguel182]

This was probably already mentioned but the way she was in Glasgow and her house at the same time it's because she stopped Simons clock and delayed it. Thus giving her time to drive to Glasgow.

When I played the game I was convinced they were twins but after reading part of this thread I'm on MPD side. There are just way to many clues for this not to be the case.

 

[MNC]

Team Twins.

Anyway, it's not all Eve in the interrogation videos right? Interrogation 7 is all Eve, but 1 is Hannah and inbetween switches between Eve and Hannah, right?

 

[charlequin]

Anyway, it's not all Eve in the interrogation videos right? Interrogation 7 is all Eve, but 1 is Hannah and inbetween switches between Eve and Hannah, right?

Right. Eve has the tattoo, Hannah has the bruise; Eve takes her coffee black, Hannah with cream and sugar; Hannah tells the story about coming home and finding Simon missing emotionally, Eve retells it with the exact same words in a flatter tone afterwards.

 

[Big Green Anus]

I'm on team twin. However, I'm not sure if Eve kills Hannah or not. I'm also wondering if the police suspects something happens to Hannah and thinks Eve did something to her, hence why Eve says " You don't have no murder weapon", even though the Police already has the murder for Simon's murder, so the police must be talking about another murder.

This game was really good and I'm happy for the award show for showing people this game

 

[Mister_Bubbles]

I haven't had time to read the entire thread, but why would the Eve and Hannah be doing their knock code to each other during interviews unless they were both 'present' at the same time (i.e. split personality)? That is what makes me lean towards that explanation, although the bruise and tattoo are definitely also hard to reason if that is the case.