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[eBay Huckster]

And what track record does she have? She was appointed by caucus to the Ohio State Senate to fill out a vacated term in 2008 and ran unopposed in 2010. She lost badly in her bid for Ohio Secretary of State. She's literally never won a competitive election for anything higher than city council.

and even then, she only won that election (by 4%) because the last guy, Joe Jones, had to resign due to felony mail fraud and she went up against the same guy's wife. (said wife, Tanya Jones, promptly lost an election for the same seat in 2008 when Turner got appointed to the state Senate seat.)

Turner went up for election in 2001 against Jones and lost by 60%.

So let's just recap her election history:

- Lost in 2001 by 60%
- Won in 2005 by 4%
- Appointed in 2008
- Won unopposed in 2010 in a D+20 district
- Lost by 30% in a statewide election

Turner was my State Senator for 6 years and I went to church in the ward she represented in Cleveland. I can't recall a single thing she was actually a leader on at the state level, and Cleveland's basically been the Frank Jackson show for the past decade and a half.

She's effectively a nobody, and I'm not sure why she's being propped up except as a token.

 

[jack_package_200]

For the sake of discussion, what makes you think she can win that group to her side? What qualities does Nina have that mirror Obama and Clinton also had that would help her get that support?

Would genuinely like an answer to this, El_Tiguere.

 

[Arrogant Bastard]

And what track record does she have? She was appointed by caucus to the Ohio State Senate to fill out a vacated term in 2008 and ran unopposed in 2010. She lost badly in her bid for Ohio Secretary of State. She's literally never won a competitive election for anything higher than city council.

Yah, but she was the uber stan for Bernie, thats enough.

Would genuinely like an answer to this, El_Tiguere.

Yep, I really want to know why black women would just adore Nina Turner for 2020.

 

[soldierblue]

It's like we're running against ourselves rather than the GOP.

I feel like the bigger picture and just how uncompassionate and outright dangerous GOP policy actually is gets lost.

We have to stop it.

 

[JesseEwiak]

Like, if Bernie fans were for Barbare Lee or some other far-left black woman who actually won elections, I'd disagree with her as a nominee, but at least I could respect it. Without hitching her horse to Bernie, nobody would give two damns about Nina Turner. Which hey, good political sense as far as keeping yourself in the public eye, but there's no evidence of any political skill.

 

[GillianSeed79]

I voted for Bernie in the primaries. When he lost the nomination, I voted for Hillary in the general....because I'm not fucking stupid. I may have thought Hillary was too centrist but that was better than Trump. I will say I was not excited per se to vote for Hillary because she's more of a policy wonk that has trouble firing up the base. I do think this Nina person is over reacting a little bit, but I also feel like the DNC ignores the left-leaning side of the party too much. Ever since Hillarly lost I feel like Dems have blamed Bernie supporters, labeling them as racist white elites who took their ball and went home or worse voted for Trump when in fact most fell in line and voted for Hillary. So far the only think the DNC has suggested is, instead of listening to its base, is bullshit like considering running pro-life candidates or center right candidates. I have zero faith the party can actually win elections when it counts even though I still vote for their candidates. They've done jack shit to capitalize on anti-Trump anger and their answer is to demonize the progressive wing of the party rather than reaching out to it to at the very fucking least listen to us.

 

[eBay Huckster]

I voted for Bernie in the primaries. When he lost the nomination, I voted for Hillary in the general....because I'm not fucking stupid. I may have thought Hillary was too centrist but that was better than Trump. I will say I was not excited per se to vote for Hillary because she's more of a policy wonk that has trouble firing up the base. I do think this Nina person is over reacting a little bit, but I also feel like the DNC ignores the left-leaning side of the party too much. Ever since Hillarly lost I feel like Dems have blamed Bernie supporters, labeling them as racist white elites who took their ball and went home or worse voted for Trump when in fact most fell in line and voted for Hillary. So far the only think the DNC has suggested is, instead of listening to its base, is bullshit like considering running pro-life candidates or center right candidates. I have zero faith the party can actually win elections when it counts even though I still vote for their candidates. They've done jack shit to capitalize on anti-Trump anger and their answer is to demonize the progressive wing of the party rather than reaching out to it to at the very fucking least listen to us.

To be fair, the DNC ignores everyone the year after the presidential election because it literally only has purview over presidential races. The DSCC and DCCC don't seem to be ignoring people!*

*

Spoiler

well, insofar as their fundraising isn't dreadful, their candidate quality's generally good, and they're regularly posting double-digit leads on the generic congressional ballot that only seem to be widening

 

[Nafai1123]

They also made Ellison the Deputy Chair.

 

[Ekai]

So back to the original point. I'm from a red state and have been going to rural red state areas my entire life. I can tell you it's absolutely full of people that may lean left but are against abortion etc.

Sounds like a centrist to me but okay. Feels like a difference in approach in how one defines centrist/leftist. Could maybe have to do with location, who knows.

While I'm in a blue state, I have been in many red areas so....eh *shrugs*

 

[soldierblue]

Ever since Hillarly lost I feel like Dems have blamed Bernie supporters, labeling them as racist white elites who took their ball and went home or worse voted for Trump when in fact most fell in line and voted for Hillary.

To be fair supporters of both are flinging that kind of narrative at each other. Even here in this thread. No side is blameless.

 

[Arrogant Bastard]

To be fair supporters of both are flinging that kind of narrative at each other. Even here in this thread.

I really don't feel that is an accurate representation. The vast majority of Clinton voters basically are taking their lumps, she lost it sucks but it happened. She lost for a whole slew of reasons, but at the end of the day she was the damn candidate and it is her fault. She isn't ever going to run for public office again, which is for the best. Most of us would like to see her maintain some role in the party.

Most Bernie supporters are pretty cool, they accept that their preferred candidate didn't win but ultimately hopped on the Clinton train cause they knew it was the best way to proceed. They are happy that Bernie still has a major role in the party and want to see him continue his support of the progressive movement.

Then you have the heels, these are primarily aggressive and vocal stans of Bernie. They want to constantly re-litigate the primary and continually talk about how Bernie was the better candidate. He would have won if not for the $hillary DNC/media cabal, blah blah BS. Where is the Clinton counterpart to that?

 

[pigeon]

Would genuinely like an answer to this, El_Tiguere.

False, nobody ever wants another El_Tiguere post.

 

[soldierblue]

I really don't feel that is an accurate representation. The vast majority of Clinton voters basically are taking their lumps, she lost it sucks but it happened. She lost for a whole slew of reasons, but at the end of the day she was the damn candidate and it is her fault. She isn't ever going to run for public office again, which is for the best. Most of us would like to see her maintain some role in the party.

Most Bernie supporters are pretty cool, they accept that their preferred candidate didn't win but ultimately hopped on the Clinton train cause they knew it was the best way to proceed. They are happy that Bernie still has a major role in the party and want to see him continue his support of the progressive movement.

Then you have the heels, these are primarily aggressive and vocal stans of Bernie. They want to constantly re-litigate the primary and continually talk about how Bernie was the better candidate. He would have won if not for the $hillary DNC/media cabal, blah blah BS. Where is the Clinton counterpart to that?

He said there was and I wanted to diplomatically say that Bernie supporters say those things too without just saying he was wrong.

 

[Cybit]

I think we have to decide whether we want progress or perfection. As well as whether we can trust our fellow liberals to fight for our causes when in power even if they prioritize it less highly. The hyperbolic usage of shaming intra-party does not help such things.

 

[kitsunelaine]

It's like we're running against ourselves rather than the GOP.

I feel like the bigger picture and just how uncompassionate and outright dangerous GOP policy actually is gets lost.

We have to stop it.

But then how will Bernie voters feel persecuted? They're the most important voter base, and everything must revolve around them. If we ignore or criticize them, we're setting ourselves up for defeat. The only solution is capitulating to their every desire, and if we don't we're causing our own defeat. Weep and repent, o Democratic party! The only way forward is to see the light of our lord and savior Bernie Sanders, a flawless, speckless pinnacle of moral righteousness! Join with him and his disciples and together we will rule in heaven!

 

[Deleted member 231381]

But then how will Bernie voters feel persecuted? They're the most important voter base, and everything must revolve around them. If we ignore or criticize them, we're setting ourselves up for defeat. The only solution is capitulating to their every desire, and if we don't we're causing our own defeat. Weep and repent, o Democratic party! The only way forward is to see the light of our lord and savior Bernie Sanders, a flawless, speckless pinnacle of moral righteousness! Join with him and his disciples and together we will rule in heaven!

...and we're supposed to think Sanders supporters were the fruitloops?

 

[kitsunelaine]

...and we're supposed to think Sanders supporters were the fruitloops?

aw, grow a funnybone

 

[Damaniel]

Who the hell pairs doughnuts with water?!?

Neoliberal corporate shills, apparently.

 

[El_Tiguere]

Still curious why black woman would just adore Nina Turner for 2020, but for some reason I don't think that is going to get an answer. Especially considering she is virtually unknown outside a particular subset of the democratic party.

Wait are you suggesting Clinton offered anything to black women other than a familiar name?

As for Nina Turner, she is one of them, she speaks truth to power, she is not afraid on calling out racism and fighting for social justice, she is not afraid to to call out corruption when she sees it. She is 1000% more relatable to black women versus Kamala Harris.,etc. I could go on

But then how will Bernie voters feel persecuted? They're the most important voter base, and everything must revolve around them. If we ignore or criticize them, we're setting ourselves up for defeat. The only solution is capitulating to their every desire, and if we don't we're causing our own defeat. Weep and repent, o Democratic party! The only way forward is to see the light of our lord and savior Bernie Sanders, a flawless, speckless pinnacle of moral righteousness! Join with him and his disciples and together we will rule in heaven!

Errr objectively millenials will be the largest voting block in 2020 and someone like Bernie appeals to them 60-40 margins. Can the party get its head out of its old order corrupt ass and start appealing the future? (versus trying to appeal to the +55 crowd that gave us a losing Hillary).

I'm just going to go with the narrative that Sanders raped a women when he was younger. It's not the least bit true, but since total misinformation like "The DNC was rigged" is fine, why does it matter if i'm viewing Sanders rape writings as a "possibility" he did more?

There is a pesky little thing that happens when you have millions of witnesses to something. When so many human beings both witnessed and recorded a political party, a political campaign, and a corporate media in concert with each other to title the balance in the game in favor of one side (not on issues mind you, but on petty unfounded attacks), and you use the infrastructure of said party to tilt the balance towards a chosen candidate...

... for Americans that hoped that an election candidate could be chosen based on the issues that are crucial to them (versus the "it's her turn" losing proposition), the DNC 2016 primaries were a sordid reality that we live in a corrupt oligarchy (which Bernie would correctly point out over and over).

Here is how Bernie people were feeling at the DNC convention (that sham "unity" show) :


https://youtu.be/hLJEtmToI6I

If the DNC had allowed Nina to speak at the convention (like they allowed their boy Barack and that Bain capital dude they want to prop up now) maybe Nina would be more well known. The corrupt elites can't have that.

 

[Rupetta]

As always, it's a bit hard to follow what arguments and critiques are made in relation to what/whom... I have seen several references to what is called "the left fringe", "the fringe", "the far left" specifically - if I understand it - in relation to Bernie, and, in this thread, specifically Our Revolution.

The "fringe" is defined I assume in relation to an established political core, such as the DNC. I would genuinely like to get a better understanding of what in concrete terms are examples of core positions that makes you label a vast group of people/voters/politicians "fringe"? In the thread I think I have seen only two explicit references to what defines for him/her "the fringe" and that was not Politics with a capital P, but the way they are grassroots organized and the demands of more participatory approaches, and another poster who highlighted the fringe in terms of holding conspiratory beliefs about rigging the primaries. A few also commented on personality traits of Turner specifically "unproven", "hysterical", "irrational" and "selfish" but these are not examples of ideological rifts and Politics as such.

Is it eg the rejection of corporate donations that Makes people belong to the fringe, for you subjectively, or universal basic income or explicit support for BLM, Paycheck Fairness Act, Employee Free Choice Act? These are all examples that I know people I have spoken to use to construct meaning to the fringe and "unelectable" Democratic candidates that people cannot even imagine being elected to positions outside of local politics.

 

[Snarky(HEART)]

Wait are you suggesting Clinton offered anything to black women other than a familiar name?

As for Nina Turner, she is one of them, she speaks truth to power, she is not afraid on calling out racism and fighting for social justice, she is not afraid to to call out corruption when she sees it. She is 1000% more relatable to black women versus Kamala Harris.,etc. I could go on




Errr objectively millenials will be the largest voting block in 2020 and someone like Bernie appeals to them 60-40 margins. Can the party get its head out of its old order corrupt ass and start appealing the future? (versus trying to appeal to the +55 crowd that gave us a losing Hillary).



There is a pesky little thing that happens when you have millions of witnesses to something. When so many human beings both witnessed and recorded a political party, a political campaign, and a corporate media in concert with each other to title the balance in the game in favor of one side (not on issues mind you, but on petty unfounded attacks), and you use the infrastructure of said party to tilt the balance towards a chosen candidate...

... for Americans that hoped that an election candidate could be chosen based on the issues that are crucial to them (versus the "it's her turn" losing proposition), the DNC 2016 primaries were a sordid reality that we live in a corrupt oligarchy (which Bernie would correctly point out over and over).

Here is how Bernie people were feeling at the DNC convention (that sham "unity" show) :


https://youtu.be/hLJEtmToI6I

If the DNC had allowed Nina to speak at the convention (like they allowed their boy Barack and that Bain capital dude they want to prop up now) maybe Nina would be more well known. The corrupt elites can't have that.

Stop speaking for black women.

 

[El_Tiguere]

Stop speaking for black women.

I am for letting Nina speak for them.

 

[Snarky(HEART)]

I am for letting Nina speak for them.

You make me sick

 

[Shogun413]

Where did this neoliberal corporatist terminology come from? Are all people in business to be equally distrusted? This broad stroke labeling of everyone with higher incomes or running businesses as inherently corrupt is ridiculous and self-serving. Progressivism should be about inclusiveness and representing most people, not about excluding everyone that doesn't meet a strict purity test.

 

[El_Tiguere]

You make me sick

Does SHE make you sick? Why?

https://youtu.be/J8mgAs2mpaM

 

[jack_package_200]

Wait are you suggesting Clinton offered anything to black women other than a familiar name?

As for Nina Turner, she is one of them, she speaks truth to power, she is not afraid on calling out racism and fighting for social justice, she is not afraid to to call out corruption when she sees it. She is 1000% more relatable to black women versus Kamala Harris.,etc. I could go on

.

Okay, yeah you are full of shit.

 

[El_Tiguere]

Okay, yeah you are full of shit.

How come?

Where did this neoliberal corporatist terminology come from? Are all people in business to be equally distrusted? This broad stroke labeling of everyone with higher incomes or running businesses as inherently corrupt is ridiculous and self-serving. Progressivism should be about inclusiveness and representing most people, not about excluding everyone that doesn't meet a strict purity test.

Are you being disingenuous? Progressives mostly talk about the corporate cartels that bribe politicians into blocking things like importing cheaper drugs from Canada (all because "muh profitzzz"). Shit that is a grotesque unnecessary detriment to the lives of people in this country (unless you are wealthy like a Clinton of course).

I swear the old corrupt Democrats are like the corrupted docile Whigs prior to the civil war. Their apologists here are a sight to behold.

 

[ModBot]

I really have no idea how anyone can still give a tiny rat's ass what Nina Turner is doing regardless of where she's managed to fail up into, let alone talk about it for 9 pages.