Then voters who would consider voting Dem but have those beliefs, that's what I mean, if the Dems can ignore them then they won't have to sacrifice their values for a win..
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Honorable Nina Turner: "They (the DNC) tried to seduce us with donuts and water"
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Then voters who would consider voting Dem but have those beliefs, that's what I mean, if the Dems can ignore them then they won't have to sacrifice their values for a win..
GoldenEye 007
Member
Black women have tried to show us the guiding light, but nobody wants to follow them.
Good god. You can't even say that you live in an urban area or blue state?
El_Tiguere
Member
And also by November. Let's also keep in mind that both Trash bag Trump and Cersei Clinton had crap negative ratings, while Bernie had positives and great honesty ratings. But nah... money trumps progress.
For me it's not such a big thing right now. I supported and voted for Bernie. People want a candidate that's more Left? Fine.
When I do have a problem is when they sit out or vote for a Russian stooge instead. Not getting what they want so they take their ball home, settle for regression instead of pragmatic progress. Fuck that. Real people are going to face real consequences. Thankfully most of these people will ultimately vote for a Democrat, but, as shown the last election, just enough to matter might not.
eBay Huckster
Member
black women, in general, are basically the base of the democratic party
Arrogant Bastard
Banned
It doesn't matter who can win, we need to run candidates that aren't corporate shills. We need candidates who are going to launch our uber progressive movement forward overnight, a real no-compromise candidate. Nina Turner!
In before you hear shit like that.
Doesn't matter if he couldn't win the primary, you don't get to skip pass the regular season and just go straight to the Super Bowl.
I would suggest that you don't press her on that.
Unless I'm mistaken we do have shitheads even in the most liberal states killing people for no reason.
If this poster doesn't want to publicly to give personal details, it's not up to you to decide that for this poster.
What politician is this? Every politician I have ever seen has been consumed with their branding. They are egotists who will stand on a stage and pretend to be best friends with a war veteran to get votes. The Pearl Harbor survivor on stage said off mic, "I don't even know you."
I don't know what a good leader in government is, because I have not witnessed one in my lifetime. (Obama was a great orator and inspired. He made you feel good, which is why I voted for him over Mitt "Hedge-Fund" Romney) Maybe people from my town. Politicians are usually tainted and sleazy if they make it past a certain point. They will almost always be late to be on the right side of history.
Other folks have to lead.
Politicians have to give two shits about something other than power and money. I am waiting on that evolved person.
The ideas are important to me. I want to see someone actually try to do the right thing even if they are punched in the face for doing so. I don't care if it is Bernie Sanders or anyone else. This country needs a trust-busting, social warrior to reform this country. It is broken, and will not be repaired until the systems fail again.
Poverty, healthcare, and education are racial and class issues. Police reform is needed. And the end of segregated local school districts and housing are needed.
I live in NJ where Moorestown, one of the nicest wealthiest towns in the state, is less than 10 miles away from Camden. NJ, the murder capital of the country with barely any tax revenue. It's frustrating to see people saying before Trump came to office that America was great, when they live 7 miles away from people who were not allowed to buy houses in their neighborhood because of housing/real estate laws.
My town has a railroad track with clear segregated communities that is only slowly changing. The houses are mostly the same. It is not accident. At least the high school I went to was integrated at the turn of the century, but I feel like no Democratic leaders are talking about this or proposing to do anything.
The millionaire club is too busy taking money from billionaires, sending their children to private school, and legacying their way into Ivy League colleges. The system is working the way it was intended to work. It's fucked up. And growing up in this world, you have to condition yourself not to think this is the way things are supposed to operate.
El_Tiguere
Member
They would adore Nina Turner for 2020.
Do you honestly think that Bernie would have the same ratings after the sophisticated right wing smear campaign of a general election happened? Yea I can't roll my eyes hard enough
Not being the primary target of the opposition during election season does wonders for popularity. But nah...let's pretend his popularity exists in a vacuum.
shawnbuddy
Member
Or a real consistent progressive like Tulsi Gabbard!
jack_package_200
Banned
Please don't pester Ekai for her general location.
Its kind of rude to ask that and rightwingers on reddit and voat have a creepy habit of archiving info on GAF posters
Its kind of rude to ask that and rightwingers on reddit and voat have a creepy habit of archiving info on GAF posters
I think you left out the importance of free international trade and of generally porous borders for people and capital, and of the general principle that maximizing productive capacity will benefit everybody by increasing the supply of everything, but otherwise, sure.
But that's the problem -- I suspect the vast majority of people in this thread would not identify with that definition in whole. Obviously some parts are good. Some parts, maybe mixed. Some parts are really bad! So it's not clear how appropriate it is to call people neoliberal at random.
I say this as somebody who got called "neoliberal" and "centrist" like a hundred times last year for the crime of thinking that Bernie wasn't actually a very good socialist. It does happen.
Did they take their ball home though? More Bernie supporters voted for Clinton that Clinton supporters for Obama, so really the onus isn't on the voters, heck no one is owed anyone else vote anyways- Bernie shouldn't have been owed Clinton voters just like Clinton isn't owed support from Bernie people.
Its the same thing here in Canada, NDP voters are told to vote Liberal in the name of pragmatism. Fuck that, people voted NDP because they want NDP! You need to give a reason for people to vote for you that's not "i'm closer to person A than person B is"
sorry about that, added more context but idk if that created more questions or answered what I was talking about
I consider minorities of all kinds and the poor/middle class (some of the middle class anyway) to be the base. I feel center-left is a bit generous at times but that's in part cause I'm still waiting on my basic rights. It's getting there at least so I can be happy about that. I can see your point in some respects. Regardless, I would want it to be a bit more leftist. Hillary and her platform actually developed into a very good direction so....yea. I did like that. A lot of my attitude is nervousness of the Dems going back to the center/abandoning people like me from their platform because it's just too much. etc.
Given the kind of people who I've dealt with and who I know stalk this forum for personal info. on people, I don't feel comfy saying much no. I guess blue is the most I would mention. Course there are conservative areas in the state that I am not that comfortable in.
Fair enough. I can agree with as much there.
Father_Brain
Banned
It's not a perfect analogy, but still: there are far too many establishment Dems who hate/hated Sanders too intensely for me to believe that Bloomberg wouldn't have been able to get ample support from their ranks.
(Which is not, of course, to say that Bloomberg would have gotten significant support from rank-and-file Clinton primary voters. He wouldn't have gotten any meaningful support beyond affluent, mostly white urban/suburban professionals.)
Arrogant Bastard
Banned
Why? Please tell me you didn't say that because Turner is a black woman.
eBay Huckster
Member
sure, if literally no one else is in the field
strictly speaking, people who were NDP voters in 2011 did vote Liberal en masse in the name of pragmatism back in 2015. it's a big reason why their vote share collapsed as much as it did!
maybe so, yeah, but i'm not sure "PLP throws multiple shitfits after Corbyn becomes leader" is analogous to what's been happening here. (though honestly, i'm not sure what's as analogous. the NDP's vote share collapsing two years ago in part because Mulcair turned into Liberal-lite isn't really one, because that wasn't an intra-party dispute. maybe whatever the hell's going on with the French left?)
GoldenEye 007
Member
Well for one, I have decided nothing for anyone. Yes, I'm black. We are killed for all types of reasons too. I understand not even saying a state. I was just seeing if they would clarify at least red or blue because that is still very vague but also offers enough context.
But of course, I will not ask for any further clarifications.
Bernie really did start a revolution alright, just not the best one for the Democrats.
Now you have younger people who hate the Democratic party for what they deem injustices against Bernie.
If another candidate they prefer loses to the one the party pushes, or heaven forbid, the majority of voters choose in the primaries, they'll protest the election again.
Plus there's going to be a lot more people throwing their hat into the ring next time, what if a really far Left Bernie character is chosen but alienates the centre and independent voters.
I am not looking forward to the next election ha, I can see it being even more crazy.
jack_package_200
Banned
And yet I feel like various Bernie supporting progressive groups just kind of ignore that fact.
Feel like they just aren't interested in that demographic
Oh then I think agree with you on everything
No, like I said, most will vote for a Democrat.
But that whole "nobody is owed a vote" is nonsense. It's just a way for somebody to justify not voting for a candidate that will actually move the country forward even if just a little, not voting for a candidate that will not spend their time coming up with ways to fuck over the poor for the sake of giving the wealthy tax cuts.
Clinton wasn't owed a vote, but if you're a decent human being that actually believe in what you supposedly stand for, then you would have voted for her over the great orange turd.
As you said, most did. I know I did as a Bernie supporter. But enough didn't. Enough decided to take their chances with Trump because he was an "outsider" lol. They took their ball home.
El_Tiguere
Member
Is that why the face of the progressive movement is a black woman?
I would say legally they can ban independents from voting.
But an argument can be made that the two-party monopolistic system and the overall power the Democratic Party possesses limits the candidates who are allowed to run and the viability of new, different thinking candidates.
The two-party system is so integrated into the government's electoral process that not allowing independents to vote is troublesome. The two-parties have become de-facto government institutions. Un-elected people exist as gate-keepers to who has a viable chance at office.
This creates a situation where there is consolidated power to guide the country away from the will of the electorate into the hands of a few power brokers at the individual parties. The compromise is the primary/caucus system.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
Depends on if they're looking for a dialogue or if they merely mean to shout their chorus at you with minimal opposition.
Because that second option's wasting everyone's time.
I thought Bernie Sanders was the face of the progressive movement?
jack_package_200
Banned
For the sake of discussion, what makes you think she can win that group to her side? What qualities does Nina have that mirror Obama and Clinton also had that would help her get that support?
Arrogant Bastard
Banned
I had no idea that Nina Turner was the face of the progressive movement, learn something new everyday.
eBay Huckster
Member
to be clear, both Booker and Harris have DW-NOMINATE scores to the left of Bernie, and Harris seems to have the biggest actual groundswell of support of anyone in the 2020 field
so I guess that's why, yeah
You will never get 100% of Bernie supporters (or any supporter really) to switch over, its just highly unlikely statistically. For that reason, as a whole you cannot blame Bernie voters as the one who loss Clinton the election considering how many did vote for her despite the campaign troubles.
So back to the original point. I'm from a red state and have been going to rural red state areas my entire life. I can tell you it's absolutely full of people that may lean left but are against abortion etc.
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
Look I will not stand for this, put some respek on her name: The Honorable Nina Turner, first of her name ,face of the progressive movement, speaker through megaphones, dispeller of donuts, presider of Our Revolution.
The primary concern I have isn't that most of these people won't vote for the democrat, it's that all of this vitriol and fake news that they constantly share will dissuade others from voting. Depressing the vote is a large part of how Hillary lost, and that happened in large part because of all the weaponized bullshit being spread around right before the election.
If you're parroting right-wing talking points, perhaps you should be a bit more objective and realize that, yes, what you share with others matters. You may make personal voting decisions thoughtfully, but those who may not be so keen on politics, and generally just listen to what others say, may not be.
If you're parroting right-wing talking points, perhaps you should be a bit more objective and realize that, yes, what you share with others matters. You may make personal voting decisions thoughtfully, but those who may not be so keen on politics, and generally just listen to what others say, may not be.
Arrogant Bastard
Banned
Still curious why black woman would just adore Nina Turner for 2020, but for some reason I don't think that is going to get an answer. Especially considering she is virtually unknown outside a particular subset of the democratic party.
cheezcake
Member
By all the facts we have Bernie primary supporters OVERWHELMINGLY voted for Clinton in the general. In fact, moreso than the rate of Clinton primary voters went on to vote for Obama.
This is not to say the Trump defectors don't exist, but they are statistically insignificant. What I don't like seeing is people radically overstating the effect of such a small group, particularly when it naturally leads to the dislike of Bernie voters as a whole and makes reconciliation within the party more difficult.
I also don't like Bernie truthers out there claiming utter shit like the primary being rigged for the same reason.
What we do need to understand is we need to ignore the outspoken, unreasonable elements of both fractures. Who will never compromise because they're unable to see anyone who doesn't 100% agree with them on everything as less than the devil incarnate. Go to the reasonable people, work towards a common goal, not every element of compromise means throwing minorities under the bus for eternity or giving corporations complete and utter dominion over life itself.
Compromise between the two fractures of the party is healthy, it's how democracy functions at its core.
As Obama put it:
monchi-kun
Member
I don't put all the blame on Bernie voters at all. It was a factor though, and perhaps a big enough one that could have made a difference. But it has nothing to do with Bernie full stop.
It's the people that are never going to be satisfied unless they get exactly what they want.
Hey you want to support Turner, I say go for it. Hell I'd probably vote for Bernie again in the primaries. But if you're not going to do whatever it takes when it comes down to it to get Trump out of office, you're a fake.
Maybe we'll be surprised though and a more Left leaning cadidate will take the top spot. Trump is president. Anything can happen.
But my point wasn't about blaming Bernie supporters, my point was, I'm not worried about this infighting and the desire for some to push for more Left candidate. As long as they are there when it counts.
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
That definition only half accurately describes democrats.
"eliminating price controls"
Yep
"deregulating capital markets, lowering trade barriers"
Halfway. They recently passed additional regulations on capital markets.
"and reducing state influence on the economy, especially through privatization and austerity."
Uh, no.
I'm just going to go with the narrative that Sanders raped a women when he was younger. It's not the least bit true, but since total misinformation like "The DNC was rigged" is fine, why does it matter if i'm viewing Sanders rape writings as a "possibility" he did more?
eBay Huckster
Member
more importantly, why would they adore her over someone like (just throwing a name that isn't Kamala out there) Barbara Lee, who was in office for the 2001 and 2003 AUMFs and voted against both of them?
shawnbuddy
Member
And what track record does she have? She was appointed by caucus to the Ohio State Senate to fill out a vacated term in 2008 and ran unopposed in 2010. She lost badly in her bid for Ohio Secretary of State. She's literally never won a competitive election for anything higher than city council.
Feel the Bern was manufactured the exact same way. It wasn't any more organic
http://observer.com/2016/02/the-sur...hebern-meet-the-creator-of-the-viral-hashtag/
I'm not even sure eliminating price controls accurately describe them. Many democrats support price capping pharmaceuticals for example.
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