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How do I get over this post election prejudice?
- Thread starter Melkezadek
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cartographer
Member
That you are capable of viewing it as prejudice and want to find ways to move past it in some way suggests that it won't end up being some obstacle that is too big to overcome for you. It suggests that it might not even be prejudice, just a shift to a slightly different world view based on rational conclusions. May just take time to adjust.
That's all I got.
That's all I got.
kame-sennin
Member
You're confusing fear of white racists - a legitimate and fact based mindset - with anti-black racial animus. U.S. history renders those two things as very different concepts.
The shame you feel is a result of gas lighting on the part of racists - including white liberals - who would have you believe that racism is defined simply as 'disliking someone because of the color of their skin'. That's not what racism is, but it's an effective way of neutralizing critiques of structural racism in the U.S. and allowing racist whites to claim victimhood.
The Shadow
Member
You're absolutely right though. Being aware of how you view things is a huge step to fixing them, if that's what needs to be done.
I deal with feelings of resentment through resignation. This country has always acted like this and for the foreseeable future will continue act like this, because it's imperative for the wealthy's consolidation of power to keep promoting white supremacy and stoking bigotry and unfounded fears.
So duh, of course half of participating white people voted for Trump. What do I expect with the historical precedents? Obama made me too comfortable and optimistic that the march through time was a straight line. Won't fall for that again!
So duh, of course half of participating white people voted for Trump. What do I expect with the historical precedents? Obama made me too comfortable and optimistic that the march through time was a straight line. Won't fall for that again!
Honestly, you need to come to terms with the fact that the feelings you have probably ain't going anywhere, and maybe it shouldn't. This isn't to say that you should look at every white person and distance yourself out of an assumption. It is to say that you've made some startling connections and have witnessed a pattern that is justified because the truth of the matter is, white Americans, young and old got Trump the election, regardless of his racist, bigoted, and misogynistic attitudes. So many even switched from Obama to Trump, so it's a complex situation that we are trying to unravel still.
To many many people, the lives of others just aren't important and thats not going to be exclusive to white people but it's very salient in this example because of the degree of Trumps blatant hatred. If it wasn't pure racism that got Trump a vote, it was a "its you or me" and total disregard. And lets not kid ourselves, even white Americans who vote democrat aren't all the best informed people when it comes to minority struggles. A white friend of mine, great guy, told another girl the days after the election that life goes on. No kidding life goes on, but let me make it clear that people aren't crying because they think their life is over, they cry because they're hurt and are actually affected in the long term. As sympathetic as so many people have tried to be, they are extraordinarily naive. Doesn't make them bad people, just is what it is, because they might not have to deal with fatal racial profiling or be told they can't marry personally. I've seen minority people, to a lesser degree, say life goes on. Some people just aren't informed enough to see the consequences to their lives and the lives of others. Living in California, much more liberal than a lot of places, so many members of minority communities cant see beyond how they will be affected and don't realize the degree of suffering those from Tennessee might face for example, where it is far more toxic. In still other examples, people who aren't racist and have a ton of friends from other ethnicities can still be diet racist without even knowing so you never really know.
Democrats aren't all totally liberal people. Some of them just are thinking of the benefit for themselves. Being a supporter of one movement doesn't make you a supporter of others. Pro lgbt and women rights have had some antiblack sentiments mixed in. black community movements have been misogynistic in the past. We just had a thread where a poster talked about how woman movements took away from real problems. Wish I could remember the thread.
The point is, people are often just shitty, whether purposely or without knowing, republican or democrat, black or white, man or woman. A prejudice can be understandable and reasonable but its about what you do with it. Don't let it control your actions or behavior other than to let it inform you of what is a possible reality, do more research on the problem to ensure that you aren't seeing things, and figure out how to change people's perceptions. Let your feelings influence positive actions. Join a social movement or become a member of big brother/big sister and influence children while they are young.
No one can give you a straight answer on how to get rid of your prejudice though.
I also agree with this. In many ways, I don't think prejudice is the right word. I think you're just having that realization moment and now you're trying to figure out what to do with your mixed up feelings.
To many many people, the lives of others just aren't important and thats not going to be exclusive to white people but it's very salient in this example because of the degree of Trumps blatant hatred. If it wasn't pure racism that got Trump a vote, it was a "its you or me" and total disregard. And lets not kid ourselves, even white Americans who vote democrat aren't all the best informed people when it comes to minority struggles. A white friend of mine, great guy, told another girl the days after the election that life goes on. No kidding life goes on, but let me make it clear that people aren't crying because they think their life is over, they cry because they're hurt and are actually affected in the long term. As sympathetic as so many people have tried to be, they are extraordinarily naive. Doesn't make them bad people, just is what it is, because they might not have to deal with fatal racial profiling or be told they can't marry personally. I've seen minority people, to a lesser degree, say life goes on. Some people just aren't informed enough to see the consequences to their lives and the lives of others. Living in California, much more liberal than a lot of places, so many members of minority communities cant see beyond how they will be affected and don't realize the degree of suffering those from Tennessee might face for example, where it is far more toxic. In still other examples, people who aren't racist and have a ton of friends from other ethnicities can still be diet racist without even knowing so you never really know.
Democrats aren't all totally liberal people. Some of them just are thinking of the benefit for themselves. Being a supporter of one movement doesn't make you a supporter of others. Pro lgbt and women rights have had some antiblack sentiments mixed in. black community movements have been misogynistic in the past. We just had a thread where a poster talked about how woman movements took away from real problems. Wish I could remember the thread.
The point is, people are often just shitty, whether purposely or without knowing, republican or democrat, black or white, man or woman. A prejudice can be understandable and reasonable but its about what you do with it. Don't let it control your actions or behavior other than to let it inform you of what is a possible reality, do more research on the problem to ensure that you aren't seeing things, and figure out how to change people's perceptions. Let your feelings influence positive actions. Join a social movement or become a member of big brother/big sister and influence children while they are young.
No one can give you a straight answer on how to get rid of your prejudice though.
I also agree with this. In many ways, I don't think prejudice is the right word. I think you're just having that realization moment and now you're trying to figure out what to do with your mixed up feelings.
DontBeThatGuy
Member
Their political beliefs and therefore their voting practices are 100% hurting others. (and probably themselves).
There's also millions of people that are hurting, just like those poor, poor misunderstood trump voters, who gave him a giant middle finger.
Can we stop coddling these motherfuckers? Look at what's happening.
Tye The Czar
Member
According to statistics, you're not that wrong there.
EDIT:
Okay. We don't try to reach out to listen to their issues or "coddle" them. What do you recommend? Resenting them, shaming them, mocking them and treating them like shit has always worked to change their ways. Oh wait...
In a way, they became like that because we did kind of ignore them. While we were (very justifiably) focusing on other issues, we let them vulnerable to the right, the wolves in saints' clothing.
What you are missing is that you are giving white people the benefit of the doubt here- claiming they were "misled", "suckered" - when no other ethnic group fell for this shit. Trump's campaign wasn't about economics, it was blatant white nationalism, and trying to claim that people who voted for him didn't know what they were voting for is ridiculous. They knew exactly what they were doing.
We have the data. We know how people who prioritized economics voted, and it wasn't for Trump.
There is no need to let the election make you prejudice against white people. You came from an area that had little diversity and it showed in overall ignorance. Tons of people come from those places and moved to find out what their grandparents told them about a certain group wasn't right.
As for blaming all white people you run into for Trump and believing that "there are some good ones." Remember, the party that you will most likely vote for, for the foreseeable future, Democratic, is also mostly white. Most Democratic Senators and representatives are white and fighting the good fight with you so remember that when you prejudge a random white person.
As for blaming all white people you run into for Trump and believing that "there are some good ones." Remember, the party that you will most likely vote for, for the foreseeable future, Democratic, is also mostly white. Most Democratic Senators and representatives are white and fighting the good fight with you so remember that when you prejudge a random white person.
I'm sorry OP you had to experience that.
My wife and I moved our family to Maryland (from AZ) in a diverse area both for education quality but also so our kids would experience a different environment while growing up, hopefully more inclusive and tolerant.
Now, being white myself,and since the election, I have had a weird occurence, similar in origin to op I think but very different in how it manifests.
At my work, I would describe the environment as very progressive, which is great. But on a few occasions, I have heard a small number of (white) people talking freely around me about being Trump voters and how they actually felt about the poor, colored people, gay rights, "economic anxiety" caused by immigrants, Muslims and terrorism, etc.
The only way I can think these people were ok discussing that around me at our workplace was that they made an assumption based on my skin color and gender as to where my "loyalties" would lie.
Calling them out by engaging in conversation (politely) when they try to include me and making sure they know where I stand generally causes a big awkward moment and the end of said conversation so far (only has happened twice thankfully).
My wife and I moved our family to Maryland (from AZ) in a diverse area both for education quality but also so our kids would experience a different environment while growing up, hopefully more inclusive and tolerant.
Now, being white myself,and since the election, I have had a weird occurence, similar in origin to op I think but very different in how it manifests.
At my work, I would describe the environment as very progressive, which is great. But on a few occasions, I have heard a small number of (white) people talking freely around me about being Trump voters and how they actually felt about the poor, colored people, gay rights, "economic anxiety" caused by immigrants, Muslims and terrorism, etc.
The only way I can think these people were ok discussing that around me at our workplace was that they made an assumption based on my skin color and gender as to where my "loyalties" would lie.
Calling them out by engaging in conversation (politely) when they try to include me and making sure they know where I stand generally causes a big awkward moment and the end of said conversation so far (only has happened twice thankfully).
lolwut
This is also what gets me- the fervent denial of the possibility that perhaps white people were fully aware of the racism and either didn't care or actively endorsed it. It's almost like a constant infantilization; this angle that they were just too ignorant to know better and thus we need to treat grown-ass adults like well-meaning children, when the fact is we all watched the same debates and rallies. Everyone is broke and everyone has poor job prospects because globalization and wealth inequality are color blind, but only white people were split down the middle on Trump.
Gee, I wonder what the split was over.
Muppet of a Man
Member
OP, I am a straight, white man living in the northwest currently (originally from the northeast like yourself), and I actually feel the way you are feeling to a great extent. I feel paranoid that, even in a liberal stronghold like where I'm at now, I'm surrounded by closeted bigots, many of which want us (i.e., white liberals/progressives and minorities generally) wiped out. Where I'm currently living is a strange mix of rural conservative bumping up against very progressive (sub)urban centers. People are much more reserved here than in the northeast, but that actually amplifies my paranoia because you don't know if certain people are just holding back.
I definitely have never felt this way prior in my life, even with the coming and going of other Republican administrations. There definitely is some insidious, vitriolic ethnocentric nativism going on that the right is rebranding as a slightly more palatable "economic nationalism". But isn't that what Nazis and other historical fascist groups claimed their movement was at its outset?
I definitely have never felt this way prior in my life, even with the coming and going of other Republican administrations. There definitely is some insidious, vitriolic ethnocentric nativism going on that the right is rebranding as a slightly more palatable "economic nationalism". But isn't that what Nazis and other historical fascist groups claimed their movement was at its outset?
boiled goose
good with gravy
Prejudice is something that is generally wrong, but both stances are different.
Generalizations based on bigotry are different from an understanding of how majority privilege manifests itself as racism.
White people being racist is a product of their whiteness (not intrinsic , but social and cultural factors of course)
That's different from "all Muslims are terrorists" or "black people are more violent" type generalizations.
What would be wrong is assuming any individual white person is a racist Trump supporter.
PastorOfMuppets
Banned
Duplicate please delete.
PastorOfMuppets
Banned
Yeah seriously every theory about why whites voted Trump falls with the most basic of scrutiny when held up to a magnifying glass:
Economic Anxiety - Oh right because all those blacks and Hispanics facing the same challenges were also huge Trump supporters. Are we to believe that the white working class are just that much more gullible and stupid than the non white working class?
Hillary was a terrible candidate - Barack Obama was probably the most charismatic man to ever run for president in modern times and he only won 39% of the white vote in 2012, Hillary won 37%. https://ropercenter.cornell.edu/groups-voted-2016/. Not only will white people not vote Democrat, they will tolerate the most vile and lowlife shit from Republicans possible. It's getting pretty evident where the majority of white America stands on race.
And don't forget, WE'RE the ones that have to reach across the aisle to reach these dumb fuck. White people I like you but y'all need to start cleaning house.
There are two fixes to your problem, OP:
1) Try not to bring up politics if you're unsure of the other person's orientation, especially if it's not germane to the subject at hand. Don't be that guy who posts stuff on facebook that nobody who doesn't agree with you wants to see, or has a bumpersticker designed to piss off Republicans or something. Treat it as a don't-ask-don't-tell situation (that policy had to be good for something, right?). If you see something you don't like, say something, but otherwise let sleeping dogs lie.
2) Find people who are committed to making a difference, PoC or not, and work with them, and then maybe you'll find common interests aside from political activism and can go do karaoke or something.
1) Try not to bring up politics if you're unsure of the other person's orientation, especially if it's not germane to the subject at hand. Don't be that guy who posts stuff on facebook that nobody who doesn't agree with you wants to see, or has a bumpersticker designed to piss off Republicans or something. Treat it as a don't-ask-don't-tell situation (that policy had to be good for something, right?). If you see something you don't like, say something, but otherwise let sleeping dogs lie.
2) Find people who are committed to making a difference, PoC or not, and work with them, and then maybe you'll find common interests aside from political activism and can go do karaoke or something.
xKilltheMx
Member
OP I'd say do the exact opposite of 1. I need to know exactly where people I would consider friends lie on the political spectrum. I dont associate with Trump supporters and if you could vote for Trump (I dont care what your reason was) I wont associate with you. At all. You owe it to yourself to know if somebody doesn't give af about you as a person is how I see it. If you could vote for Trump you dont care about me or people like me, fuck that one of the good ones shit.
Also Post whatever the hell you like on your facebook, if they dont like it they can unfollow or leave.
Vigilant Walrus
Member
"He who fights with monsters should be careful lest he thereby become a monster."
What defines the actions of those who've made you so angry and caused you so much pain, are using stereotypical blanket thinking. You have your reasons to be angry and to hate, but it's really sad when good people become so broken they become toxic themselves and fall into the same traps as those who caused them harm.
Separate the actions of the individual; the flawed thinking, their lack of wisdom and judgment and introspection, from their person; someone who is scared, confused and a follower of those around himself/herself.
Separating the root cause is not (despite what some people will tell you) the same thing as normalizing, or being a doormat or welcoming racism or prejudice.
This thinking; This desire for people to want to be surrounded by those who are like them, seems to be a primal instinct that have defined human civilization for at least the past 10,000 years. It exist all over the world and all throughout human history.
Immigrants and minorities always take the blame. It is one of the flaws in the human experience. Our tribalism, our hierarchies, our tendencies for selection bias, confirmation bias, all seeks to trap into the easy mode of thinking;
To concrete the worlds ills and problems into simplistic constructs of good and evil.
It's understandable why a lot of people are doing this. It's easier to cope with whatever you're trying to cope with if you have a solid explanation. If all women are disloyal whores, you feel less bad about your failures. If all immigrants and minorities are out to mooch on your tax dollars, you feel better about not wanting to share your privileges with people you perceive to be different from you. And so it goes with everything.
What happened in 2016s election in America has happened throughout history. It is not uncommon for people to be self destructive and tone deaf when they are angry. It's not uncommon for people to blame the outsiders and foreigners when the coffers are empty. It's not uncommon for outsiders and foreigners to be seen as a threat when they converge in numbers large enough to change the place of the locales.
You see this pattern everywhere. It's the same racism, the same fear, the same primal tribalism, and it's the same mode of thinking it has always been. We run on emotions, and since our emotions dictate how we feel, we become prey to this.
I want to be everything that those who I do not not like are not. I want to live the example I want to set for others to the best of my ability.
If I am about inclusion, argument and the marketplace of free ideas, I cannot start taking the strategies, morales and talking points of those I hate and end up being a spitting mirror image of them. My ability to exercise influence might not work yet- maybe not in the short term, maybe not until further refinement, but it doesn't mean it won't. The Atlantic posted a video yesterday about A Better Way to Argue about Politics and I think it has a lot value.
People are less about the positions than what they feel like. Donald Trump could have been way more progressive and they would still have voted for him. Donald Trump is an excuse to see the system burn from the perspective of people who've completely given up on it being better. When you're that lost and radicalized you cannot be talked sense into. You saw it in Turkey, you saw it in the Phillippines, you see it over Europe.
It doesn't work for a lot of people anymore, and then they stop listening to reason.
That doesn't mean there isn't a lot of people who are a racist and full of hate, but one can separate the actions of people being so toxic in their misery, from the person who is just misguided and doesn't have the mental fortitude to avoid the traps set by con men, hustlers, scams.
They get played. A lot of people get played in all manners of life. A lot of people fall victim to all sorts of scams, but not all these people deserve it.
You could say that they should have paid attention, they should have done better in school, they shouldn't have been on opiods, they shouldn't get their news from Facebook and fox news exclusively, but this is the world we live in, and people are deeply flawed.
chillybright
Banned
some people have the support of morality history and society.
can't call out a cabal. lmao.
but you can get disinvited from the Jamboree.
These people weren't ignored. they weren't vulnerable. They ran, and jumped into the arms of their abusers. they can't trust the unknown of a progressive future, but they sure love the sharp feel of the yoke on their necks.
vulnerable..they are the strong arm of these conservative fucks. they are the ones empowering them. Vulnerable my ass.
This is a good post. Volunteering in politics in your area can be very rewarding. You meet so many cool people from all walks of life and when you talk to them you instantly click because they have the same politics and goals, unless you're a loud obnoxious nutjob.
You're like Hillary's campaign team. You see some statistics and then make bunch of terrible assumptions.
OP, I can't tell you how to get over your prejudice, but I wanted to chime in about my home state of TN. You are absolutely correct. I was a pharmacy tech in a more wealthy part of town during the election and I was amazed at what I seen and heard. Trump signs everywhere, confederate flags, offensive bumper stickers. Hell, I remember one time a patient called in to complain about a co worker of mine who is a person of color. The old woman told me a colored person disrespected her and that she has no right to talk to her in a certain manner. It was very racist.
Now, I work on the opposite end of the town and its like I'm in bizarro world. It's the complete opposite of that area of Knoxville. People were wearing safety pins and such. Anyway, I'm just throwing this post out there in case if someone comes along trying to defend my state. I've seen it first hand and its gross. I hope you can overcome this because not everyone is trash.
Now, I work on the opposite end of the town and its like I'm in bizarro world. It's the complete opposite of that area of Knoxville. People were wearing safety pins and such. Anyway, I'm just throwing this post out there in case if someone comes along trying to defend my state. I've seen it first hand and its gross. I hope you can overcome this because not everyone is trash.
Sucks, OP.
Being asian, I suppose I'm a "good immigrant." Not to mention I live in the PNW so in general I'm not too concerned about short-term implications here for myself or my family. That said, being in the controls industry related primarily to factory jobs and such, a lot of my work peers seem to steer right on issues. I mostly disengage when the conversation becomes politics, because most people aren't really wanting a discussion of opposing viewpoints. The few times I did, the insistence was that their choices were in no way racially motivated. Never tried to really talk back about that argument IRL, as in my case it's not quite a life-and-death case -- driving while Asian doesn't get you shot, yet.
I'm much more vocal about rights and responsibilities as a cyclist, and it's amazing what kind of parallels you can draw about how people work after they hear you're riding to work and all that. Even in PNW with its relatively high cycling population, it seems that it's socially OK to shit on cyclists, and to generalize failings of a few on the whole group. A designer told me how they were so annoyed by a rider that inconvenienced them during one of their errands. Another person mentioned how one was hogging the road (that's legal), for a long stretch of a winding road, and how he smacked him on the back and knocked him out the road, that'll show him (that's illegal). I'm fucking floored sometimes by how far some people take their rage on other people on the road, purely by their choice of transport. I believe at least one of these discussions occurred about a week after I started driving to work again, after a pickup truck ran me off the road and resulted in a muscle pull which kept me off the bike for 2-3months.
And let's go on about ethnicity some more. To be more specific, I'm Japanese and moved to the states when I was fairly young. First job out of college was at a Japanese conveyor automation firm in TN. Japanese plant managers (for mfg such as Nissan, Honda) would openly confide w/ me that they're glad I'm there overseeing the work -- "those white people, they don't know how to work. They're too lazy, and don't listen." I'd neither deny or confirm, as I didn't want to lose trust of customers but simultaneously didn't want to throw colleagues under the bus. My mentor at work, who was one of the Japanese engineers assigned to assist in development for 3~5yrs at a time, mentioned basically the same thing. Of course, I got sent to the chopping block when I got openly critical about one of the Japanese managers who were doing a shit job, so it was not like I was ever really welcomed as part of that group.
In Japan more specific, there's a small percentage of Korean immigrants and others seeking to get a job via visas. Look on the internet, talk to people IRL about this and you'll almost certainly hear how they all abuse welfare and constantly cheat. I know Korean Americans here, and I've met Korean transplants to Japan, none of who fit this generic negative sentiment.
In short, I have to agree that in general the majority doesn't care for the minority. When the balance is overwhelming and socially considered OK to do so it's amazing how much animosity the majority can harbor for the minority. This line of thought doesn't limit itself to race & ethnicity, and can still lead to very harmful consequences.
Being asian, I suppose I'm a "good immigrant." Not to mention I live in the PNW so in general I'm not too concerned about short-term implications here for myself or my family. That said, being in the controls industry related primarily to factory jobs and such, a lot of my work peers seem to steer right on issues. I mostly disengage when the conversation becomes politics, because most people aren't really wanting a discussion of opposing viewpoints. The few times I did, the insistence was that their choices were in no way racially motivated. Never tried to really talk back about that argument IRL, as in my case it's not quite a life-and-death case -- driving while Asian doesn't get you shot, yet.
I'm much more vocal about rights and responsibilities as a cyclist, and it's amazing what kind of parallels you can draw about how people work after they hear you're riding to work and all that. Even in PNW with its relatively high cycling population, it seems that it's socially OK to shit on cyclists, and to generalize failings of a few on the whole group. A designer told me how they were so annoyed by a rider that inconvenienced them during one of their errands. Another person mentioned how one was hogging the road (that's legal), for a long stretch of a winding road, and how he smacked him on the back and knocked him out the road, that'll show him (that's illegal). I'm fucking floored sometimes by how far some people take their rage on other people on the road, purely by their choice of transport. I believe at least one of these discussions occurred about a week after I started driving to work again, after a pickup truck ran me off the road and resulted in a muscle pull which kept me off the bike for 2-3months.
And let's go on about ethnicity some more. To be more specific, I'm Japanese and moved to the states when I was fairly young. First job out of college was at a Japanese conveyor automation firm in TN. Japanese plant managers (for mfg such as Nissan, Honda) would openly confide w/ me that they're glad I'm there overseeing the work -- "those white people, they don't know how to work. They're too lazy, and don't listen." I'd neither deny or confirm, as I didn't want to lose trust of customers but simultaneously didn't want to throw colleagues under the bus. My mentor at work, who was one of the Japanese engineers assigned to assist in development for 3~5yrs at a time, mentioned basically the same thing. Of course, I got sent to the chopping block when I got openly critical about one of the Japanese managers who were doing a shit job, so it was not like I was ever really welcomed as part of that group.
In Japan more specific, there's a small percentage of Korean immigrants and others seeking to get a job via visas. Look on the internet, talk to people IRL about this and you'll almost certainly hear how they all abuse welfare and constantly cheat. I know Korean Americans here, and I've met Korean transplants to Japan, none of who fit this generic negative sentiment.
In short, I have to agree that in general the majority doesn't care for the minority. When the balance is overwhelming and socially considered OK to do so it's amazing how much animosity the majority can harbor for the minority. This line of thought doesn't limit itself to race & ethnicity, and can still lead to very harmful consequences.
Aye.
DJT is just the new wrapper on the same GOP policies that have been around for years. He's just more brazen about.....everything, which is part of his appeal to voters. About the only new policy DJT proposed was the Muslim ban, but I imagine other GOP politicians knew better than to propose it because it was unconstitutional.
So yes, if a voter feels especially frustrated about DJT being in the WH, then they need to look at why they didn't feel the same when the GOP had massive victories in 2010 and 2014. Controlling state legislatures, the US Senate and House are arguably more important and have more direct effect on people's lives.
Indeed, and both sides believe they occupy the moral high ground.
- Status