Hatefilled Vengeance
Member
Realistically, I think they should fund a bunch more smaller games like Ori and ReCore, including rebooting stuff like Banjo, and have those games be Xbox/PC/Switch, to help justify the cost.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
"How I'd fix Xbox's first party problem-" ign
- Thread starter sam12
- Start date
Nightengale
Member
I was about to say that Ryse and ROTR sold relatively well, but you've updated your quote.
Seganomics
Member
Having been a close follower of SoT since its announcement (where's my alpha invite Rare!?!?) I can honestly say I couldn't be happier with what they are producing with that game. It looks sublime.
Sony
Nintendo
There is actually a less concrete way for them to address their problem:
- Let their studios have creative freedom outside of their respective IP's
For the longest time I was certain that 343 and the Coalition could make anything other than Halo and Gears, but my thought on that has changed.
- Let their studios have creative freedom outside of their respective IP's
For the longest time I was certain that 343 and the Coalition could make anything other than Halo and Gears, but my thought on that has changed.
Devilgunman
Member
MS need their own "Overwatch" aka addictive mp focused game. It needs to be accessible enough for casuals and deep enough for hardcores. Getting time-exclusive on PUBG is a great move but it won't drive hardware sale since people are already playing it on PC. Sea of Theives has potential but what I've seen so far doesn't really make me run out to buy XB1 yet.
daTRUballin
Member
Still sounds like a very strong statement to make. You don't actually know what goes on at Microsoft. And unless any of us work there or have an uncle that works there, anything we say are just assumptions.
Besides, Microsoft probably has more resources than Sony and Nintendo combined. I don't think it's a matter of MS not having the finances to support the Xbox division, but rather it's just MS being unwilling to do so for whatever reason.
I didn't notice ryse was in there at firstI was about to say that Ryse and ROTR sold relatively well, but you've updated your quote.
Jetboxx
Member
Nah, he isn't. The guy has a big potential. Devil's Third was in development hell and still it's enjoyable. I would call it a piece of art.
I was thinking If I was in MS situation in addition to trying to develop internal IP's I would actually try taking Sony to task just for the sake of politics...
What I mean by this is during E3 when the Minecraft Better Together update was announced MS got some mindshare in regards to cross-platform play. As crazy as it sounds I would take it one step further. If you can't beat them try to get them in a precarious position.
Phil and Major Nelson have the platform to do so. It may sound ridiculous but if Sony's 1st party and 3rd party games are as good as people say they are Metacritic and reception wise then let all people enjoy them. Platform agnostic releases would be beneficial for everyone right? Hypothetical as a start I bet Uncharted Collection would do some numbers on Xbox.
*I know Windows Store is important to MS but I'm surprised they have not tried to do some type of handshake with Steam. Games that are not demanding could probably run with the right coding or shell.
It's late my brain is wonky lol!
What I mean by this is during E3 when the Minecraft Better Together update was announced MS got some mindshare in regards to cross-platform play. As crazy as it sounds I would take it one step further. If you can't beat them try to get them in a precarious position.
Phil and Major Nelson have the platform to do so. It may sound ridiculous but if Sony's 1st party and 3rd party games are as good as people say they are Metacritic and reception wise then let all people enjoy them. Platform agnostic releases would be beneficial for everyone right? Hypothetical as a start I bet Uncharted Collection would do some numbers on Xbox.
And I am a saying this as a 20 year Sony fan.
*I know Windows Store is important to MS but I'm surprised they have not tried to do some type of handshake with Steam. Games that are not demanding could probably run with the right coding or shell.
It's late my brain is wonky lol!
S
Steve.1981
Unconfirmed Member
Sea of Thieves, on top of looking like a really good, fun game, has the potential to bring in a lot of money. More money than any of those games mentioned, which all sold disappointing.
If you're talking about managing resources more effectively, Sea of Thieves is exactly the kind of game that Xbox needs more of.
Seganomics
Member
I'm not sure MS would ever take it that far but as I've said before when the next gen rolls around if the MS hardware is superior and the price is on point then this cross play stuff, potentially cheaper online subs and back compat is gonna do for the fence sitters, first party be damned.
daTRUballin
Member
But if this happens, console wars won't be as fun bruh
...and the fallacy borne of geocentrism continues.
Still, it's a good illustration of one of the many issues MS face with Xbox that is largely self-created, which is their inability to capitalise on the success of the 360 outside NA.
Eh, past all that. At least I am I can't speak for all gamers. I mean in a alternate reality Horizon Zero Dawn is millions of sales in on PSN, Steam, and Xbox Live. Call me crazy but that game as a multi-plat could be most likely would be a juggernaut. Especially as the price drops.
Sure... I want to see that first. Of course they can throw in a bunch of microtransactions and loot boxes, doesn't mean they'll sell well or that people will buy the game to begin with. Don't forget that Ubisoft is also releasing a pirate game. Not the same thing but the mass market will most likely buy the prettier one and forget about the Rare one.
Jetboxx
Member
What? Why not? All three main games sold very good.
Seganomics
Member
This is a problem. My nephew loves the pirate theme and owns an Xbox and said how much he was looking forward to the new ubisoft pirate game, I said to him about sea of thieves and he hadn't even heard of it.
I showed him some videos and he kind of shrugged. I said something to him like 'but this is PROPER pirates!'. He is now interested in the game but MS has a real task in marketing SoT in a way that captures the imagination.
Sad Affleck
Member
We'll know soon enough. I'm just not convinced that whatever resources are assigned for games development are being applied correctly.
Yeah... I don't expect much of this game. It looks quirky and fun and could've been a neat little game but now is put on the main stage as one of the few exclusives. I don't think it can withstand such pressure.
OK. Good to know.
The way they manage creatives is broken right from the top and down through all the 1st party teams. They need to fix that or their first party is going to remain underwhelming.
They are run a by a bunch of risk averse producers, not a single passionate creative in a position of power and that attitude filters down to every team.
They are run a by a bunch of risk averse producers, not a single passionate creative in a position of power and that attitude filters down to every team.
Why? Because some managers at Microsoft thought Singleplayer was dead and only Service Games have a future in this industry? The same people that forced a service game onto Lionhead, neglecting that studio's strengths and hence killing the franchise and the studio itself? Please.
Look at Horizon. That's one of the best-selling games of the year. Singleplayer. Open world. New IP.
Seganomics
Member
You think there's tons of risk being shown on Sonys side?
Dreams
Anything David Cage
The Last of Us
That Russian doll F2P game that's shutting down
PS VR
Horizon Zero Dawn
The answer is yes.
Sad Affleck
Member
Monkeyball
Banned
Hah what a silly list.
They built an entire studio for Kojima and are co-developing a title with a relatively unknown Chinese Developer (Monkey King)
So yes.
Rattling off a list of titles on your wishlist won't fix Xbox. Microsoft is fundamentally broken. The leadership and work environment, imo, will screw up all those titles and studios you want during development. The people behind the games who can start a project and finish it right are more important. That's why Marvel movies are generally considered better than DC movies. Once Marvel had the right producers they had hit after hit. The producers guided each project by hiring the right creatives, understanding what the consumers want, and fostering the right environment to make watchable movies. DC on the other hand are completely clueless. They don't understand what they have. The producers in charge pick the wrong directors and the wrong scripts. They've made more mistakes than hits. Yet DC heroes have done a better job in animation and video game projects while Marvel is the opposite and haven't been quite as successful.
Another example would be Apple, with Steve Jobs on board they had great ratio of product successes compared to failed. Apple without Steve Jobs not so much. Microsoft will continue to flail until they change the very core of how they operate.
Another example would be Apple, with Steve Jobs on board they had great ratio of product successes compared to failed. Apple without Steve Jobs not so much. Microsoft will continue to flail until they change the very core of how they operate.
Rare is on Sea of Thieves and probably will be for the foreseeable future so it's hard to imagine when they would be free to make a Fable game. It's also tragic to think of a new Fable game not involving Lionhead after them being closed so recently.
Shinobi with Itagaki sounds like a blast, that's the sort of unpredictable and exciting thing I would like to see Microsoft get involved in but recently it feels like they've been doing the exact opposite - very predictable, very unoriginal and tired releases.
Their first party seems so broken at the moment I'm not entirely sure how or if it can be fixed..
Shinobi with Itagaki sounds like a blast, that's the sort of unpredictable and exciting thing I would like to see Microsoft get involved in but recently it feels like they've been doing the exact opposite - very predictable, very unoriginal and tired releases.
Their first party seems so broken at the moment I'm not entirely sure how or if it can be fixed..
The problem with those service games is they need as big of an installed hardware base as possible. That's a core necessity for them. The other thing is, there already are a bunch of service games by third-party publishers. People already put a ton of money into Overwatch or Destiny. Trying to get a piece of that cake is incredibly difficult.
Sony is a long way from perfect but they are significantly better in this regard.
Seganomics
Member
No matter how you look at it, closing down Lionhead was a grievous error. There is always appetite for fantasy RPGs (Skyrim, Zelda, Witcher), and Microsoft essentially eliminated what was there most creative franchise.
For all of the shit people gave Molyneux, at least he had ambition. You wouldn't find a hint of it at 343i.
For all of the shit people gave Molyneux, at least he had ambition. You wouldn't find a hint of it at 343i.
The Last of Us was a new IP at the end of last gen. Yes, that's risky.
Zero Dawn is a new IP with a female lead. Pitch that to marketing managers and watch their faces.
Kinect was not a risk. Microsoft paid for Kinect to be a success. It had a ginormous marketing budget (they even cracked Oprah) and in the end it was just the continuation of the Wii. VR is an entirely new tech that Sony out of all companies usually has no business working with at this early stage. It's a new market and nobody knows how it will develop or if it will be worth it in the end. That's risk.
Project Spark was also a risk for MS, that didn't work out unfortunately.
Seganomics
Member
Like Sunset Overdrive you mean?
Sounds like what YOU need to buy a box. Core gamers also turned Overwatch, Ghost Recon Wildlands and Destiny into big hits.
Seganomics
Member
I wouldn't call a zombie game from naughty dog a risk.
New IP? Female lead? Like Recore you mean?
Project Spark! Ain't that the dead game that's a bit like Dreams?
The VR / Kinect thing is a wee bit tenuous of a comparison I will grant you that, but bundling Kinect was risky. Stupid, but risky.
Sad Affleck
Member
I don't own any consoles, it's just my opinion. I don't think that platform exclusive multi-player games can compete with the multi-platform behemoths you mentioned.
I don't think MS needs as many Singleplayer games as Sony provides. I'd even go as far and question if they're capable of developing something like The Last of Us to be honest. That's not what they're good at. At the same time, again, service games might be huge, but there are already a lot of them out there. I don't think any platform holder can make an exclusive service game that can be a serious threat to the big service games like Overwatch, Destiny, Siege and Ghost Recon. That's just not realistic. Ubisoft and Activision Blizzard have positioned themselves to be in that market like no other company could.
But some Singleplayer games sure would ne nice. ReCore showed some potential at least. Ryse, Quantum Break or Sunset just weren't good enough.
Come on. You really think ReCore and Zero Dawn had the same budget? There was a lot more money on the table for Zero Dawn. Guerilla could've just made another Killzone instead.
It was a risk. It's not even really a question. Same for The Last of Us. Again, ask anyone in this industry. They'll agree it was a risk. Add to that that the game uses some incredibly heavy themes for a mainstream AAA high budget game. And the risk paid off. TLoU transcends video games like almost nothing else in the last few years.
Also I'm not really sure what Dreams is supposed to be or who on earth will buy that. I bet they'll give it away on PS Plus in the end.
Seganomics
Member
But they only cant compete in the same way Horizon cannot compete with Witcher 3.
They showed great risk taking. That's why the game came out so very content complete with a satisfying ending and didn't feel like a cut your losses job at all.
S
Steve.1981
Unconfirmed Member
For me it's just a more reactionary, conservative phase that Xbox is moving through right now.
How much did Quantum Break, Ryse, ReCore and Sunset Overdrive cost them, I wonder. They all flopped, financially and otherwise (not talking about how good the games actually were). I think it's understandable that they would be reluctant to just throw more money at the same thing that seemingly failed them already.
It's about getting the balance right, I think. I do want another Fable, for example, alongside Sea of Thieves.
wapplew
Member
PUBG say otherwise.
Nightengale
Member
New IPs are always risky, because it's extremely hard to tell if a certain idea or concept would even resonate with audiences.
It doesn't matter how successful or safe some ideas are on paper. Sometimes some idea just resonates poorly in practice and execution.
Let it put it this way.
If I measure things like social metrics, how much awareness and interest some games are generating;
Scalebound had some of the worst social metrics of a game that "checks all the boxes."
Open-world, action RPG, fantasy, combat, co-op, first-party exclusive, significant showcase at game conferences.
And yet once we track level of conversation, discussion, trailer views, google trend, twitter trends... it was very uninspired.
Scalebound's cancellation created like 20x more buzz than any other media it generated.
If something like Scalebound failed to generate significant audience interest, what does that say for other ideas?
It doesn't matter how successful or safe some ideas are on paper. Sometimes some idea just resonates poorly in practice and execution.
Let it put it this way.
If I measure things like social metrics, how much awareness and interest some games are generating;
Scalebound had some of the worst social metrics of a game that "checks all the boxes."
Open-world, action RPG, fantasy, combat, co-op, first-party exclusive, significant showcase at game conferences.
And yet once we track level of conversation, discussion, trailer views, google trend, twitter trends... it was very uninspired.
Scalebound's cancellation created like 20x more buzz than any other media it generated.
If something like Scalebound failed to generate significant audience interest, what does that say for other ideas?
Seganomics
Member
I'd say putting Guerilla to work on another Killzone game would be the risky decision Sony could have made
These seem all like games with very little mainstream appeal.. Sounds like a great way to lose plenty of money for them! Maybe Fable, but a complete reboot is quite a risk. I guess Alan Wake 2 could be a moderate success maybe.
And what would MS even have to do Splinter Cell Chaos Theory 2?! "Moneyhatting" Ubisoft and not seeing any kind of ROI on that game just to please some fanboys?
And what would MS even have to do Splinter Cell Chaos Theory 2?! "Moneyhatting" Ubisoft and not seeing any kind of ROI on that game just to please some fanboys?
That doesn't make any sense whatsoever.