nelsonroyale
Member
Personally, I also think 3.5 GB is super bloat for the OS. But then I don't care about any of the other functionality really. I hope they get it down.
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How inFAMOUS: Second Son Used the PS4s 8 (4.5) GB of RAM + more details
- Thread starter ICPEE
- Start date
Every OS has a footprint with a built in overhead. The reason for this is:
A) The OS is developed with a future-proof plan. Knowing there will be alot of functionality that will be added at a later date, the overhead reserves the room needed to not only add this functionality ( of which they don't know how much ram it will use up after optimization), but creates "wriggle room" so the functionality can be debugged and tested thoroughly.
B) As development tools matures and gets optimized their RAM usage gets more efficient. Obviously Sony needs to cater to the lowest common denominator ( read game engines, for instance UE4, which might not be as optimized as say, Frostbite 3.0) So this process is a slow and tightly monitored process. So as devtools shrink, so does the need for a certain overhead.
This happens every gen with every console. Sony tends to be conservative when it comes to overhead. For instance the PS3:
256mb RAM with a 120 mb overhead at launch which is 47% reserved. Fuckton.
Within 3 years that overhead shrunk down to 50 Mb, bringing the overhead back to 19%.
Now apply these gains to the ps4 and put your troubled mind to ease.
Again, this happens every generation, so this really, seriously isn't news.
Those pictures indeed do not impress me that much compared to PC gaming. But if you are used to inferior graphics then this is the cream of the crop.
You need to realize that the PS4 is still early in its life and memory allocated for OS is not permanent. It will most likely be reduced as the OS becomes more efficient. I'm guessing the high reserve in memory is due to features yet to be implemented or finalized. Better to have a bigger footprint while the OS is still in its infancy.
Joke post?
RamzaIsCool
The Amiga Brotherhood
Sony got burned last gen because they allocated not enough RAM to the OS. So it seems they have a "better save then sorry" mentality regarding the RAM allocation on the PS4. It's probably overkill right now for the OS and alot of that RAM is sitting idle. But the good news is that down the line, they can give a chunk of that back to the developers.
No but maybe came of a bit arrogant, i meant if you are used to last gen's graphics it looks great
Why would you compare the graphics to PC gaming?
Ted
Member
Can Crusher
Banned
I get the feeling the only reason the memory overhead on Ps3 shrunk so dramatically was due to the Xbox 360.
Hopefully you're right and in a couple of years devs will have like 6.5 available to them.
Really? I find it's way faster now. Especially on days PS+ updates and I have to fumble to download the PS3 game as opposed to the smoother PS4 in the same day. I'm sure features that make all that ram reserved will pop up eventually as well as free more up as time goes on.
Competition is often a strong driving force for innovation. Which is why monopolies are bad.
RamzaIsCool
The Amiga Brotherhood
Yeah there are like zillions of openworld games on pc looking better then Infamous: SS! Duh... people are just blind on this board! You tell them dude.
You're going to last long here.
Edit: Looking at your profile, you joined in 2006 with only 90 posts. Do you only post elitist comments or do you lurk?
I'm not sure where you got that impression. It literally has no bearing on OS size.
They'll almost certainly have more. The amount they've been given now is still a really exciting prospect. It's not worth getting hung up on.
Panzerkrei
Banned
I'm impressed that the mostly solid frame rate and very impressive graphics is running on 4.5GB. Just imagine that if Sucker Punch can do this on the PS4 hardware with 4.5GB then imagine a few years in future what Naughty Dog or SSM can do with more RAM and experience.
Can Crusher
Banned
Early on it was troublesome for multiplatform development. Devs had more ram available on Xbox 360 than on Ps3.
We will most likely get 6gb for games by the end of the generation.
I doubt we will see any more than that.
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
Good. No need to type it myself now.
That's how I see it, those results for open world from a smaller team early on, bodes well for those bigger studios output.
Been trying to explain this to mates for years but each new gen they need it explained again and look back and realise this is the cycle.
I remember well how, after it became known MS is reserving 3 GB on Xbox One, we had here most people complaining about "bloated OS", "stupid MS", "totally non-gaming console", etc. etc.
And now it comes out Sony is reserving even more on their "totally gaming oriented" console.
Oh, the irony.
And now it comes out Sony is reserving even more on their "totally gaming oriented" console.
Oh, the irony.
I don't really know much about the technical side of these things so I don't know if SONY can free up more ram for devs in the future, but 4.5gb is still substantially more than what ps3 had. Infamous SS makes me excited for the future. I'm not sure if the PC comparison bears much relevance in a thread about technical discussion about a ps4 game. That being said, I play the same top of the line graphics PC games as the rest of Gaf and still find Second son really impressive.
test_account
XP-39C²
I think you should elaborate on more technical things regarding the developement of this game if you say that they did a bad job. For example, how would you be able to make the game look just as good and use less RAM for example, which techniques would you use?
There's some truth to this, but those debates were based on info known at the time.
PS4 would have also been frowned upon if this 3.5GB reserve was known back then.
systemfehler
Member
People often forget that even though the PS4 OS might look simplistic it has a UI, I/O (file management, controllers, headsets, camera, ...), audio and video APIs, software (browser, store, games, ...). Basicly a full fledged OS with certain limitations. My Debian takes around 400-600MB of memory right after the start doing nothing just providing further functionality - open a browser, start some daemons, etc. and you are easy at the 2GB mark.
Sony reserved maybe more than they need now but I guess until they figure out a few things down the road it will stay this way but not forever. More RAM doesn't translate in "better" looking games - it is just easier to develop if you don't have to worry about constraints and that can translate into more time/effort in the visual department.
Sony reserved maybe more than they need now but I guess until they figure out a few things down the road it will stay this way but not forever. More RAM doesn't translate in "better" looking games - it is just easier to develop if you don't have to worry about constraints and that can translate into more time/effort in the visual department.
Another fantastic post. Are you serious?Anyone managed to download pdf? Dropbox link is dead now, because of traffic.
If yes, please reupload it, thanks
-----
They are wasting tons of memory with those buffers. They do not need to be as big as they are. Check Ryse or Crysis 3 presentations.
Pretty much.
test_account
XP-39C²
It has been known for quite some time actually. Here is an article from about 8 months ago:
http://www.thesixthaxis.com/2013/07...egarding-ps4-ram-5gb-available-to-developers/
perineumlick
Member
Because he's talking out of his ass.
Ah I see. I will have been 14 in 2007 so I wasn't paying much attention to the tech back then!
I stand corrected. I'm not entirely sure how to react to this news now, lol.
There's some disappointment seeping in. Maybe I'm just overreacting, though.
Moral Panic
Member
Except a year ago "Sony Insiders" said that PS4 had 6GB of usable RAM and that Digital Foundry (who said 4.5GB + 512MB Flex) were wrong.
test_account
XP-39C²
Reading the article again, i have to correct something and say that Sony didnt confirm it 100% back then it seems. Sorry about that. But there were a good amount of speculations and rumors about the 4.5GB RAM being available for games on PS4 back then
Yeah, because further handicapping your pool of slow DDR3 is totally comparable to doubling the GDDR5 you were going to have and then adding some of that to the gaming partition. The situation isn't ideal, but it's also not unexpected, given the need to compete in a variety of hypothetical situations.
Phreakuency
Banned
Can Crusher wins this thread for being the biggest dipshit. Didn't even have to scroll to the bottom of the first page and already had two useless posts.
As far as I know, the flex hasn't been confirmed nor denied.
Actually it was confirmed by sony to be present.
ComputerMKII
Banned
What does this means in idiot's terms?
aY227
Member
Completely, why wouldnt I? Check Crytek presentation about packing framebuffers.
http://crytek.com/download/Sousa_Tiago_Rendering_Technologies_of_Crysis3.pptx
You dont need 32bits for wetness for example.
I don't think he's wording his wording his disappointment quite right, but I can
sympathize with him somewhat. I understand their are legit technical reasons why
Sony may have kept such a huge reserve (same with MS), so let's see how they
utilize it.
test_account
XP-39C²
True, but even if they were wrong, it was discussed quite a bit though, and some of the discussion was taking into account that it might have been accurate. And if Eurogamer was wrong about the 512MB Flex thing, its not really that far off the truth (which seems to be 4.5GB). It was a pretty big thread about it here:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=636106
It just shows how Infamous: Second Son uses the RAM.
Wow you've been around this long and still havn't learned a thing or two about "insiders" ? They speculate, or echo rumours and ramblings. People who focus on the facts were discussing this for days last year.
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