Well, we probably just focus on different aspects of the graphics then
I focus on the lighting, color palette, reflections, and resolution. Maybe that's why Second Son looks so good to me.
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How inFAMOUS: Second Son Used the PS4s 8 (4.5) GB of RAM + more details
- Thread starter ICPEE
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I focus on the lighting, color palette, reflections, and resolution. Maybe that's why Second Son looks so good to me.
Wishmaster92
Member
Sony needs to reduce the Damn os footprint. Great article.
Rollo Lawson
Banned
Not to mention the insane particle effects, which stand to look primitive and "early gen" in a few years.
Cornbread78
Member
The game looks amazing, great job SP.
I'll go out on a limb and say once all the major firmware/OS updates are launched this year you will start to see more ram become availible.
I'll go out on a limb and say once all the major firmware/OS updates are launched this year you will start to see more ram become availible.
Wow, I didn't know that people weren't aware of the OS ram? I'm actually surprised cause this was known...
Nonetheless, this just shows how it is actually pretty crazy how the xbox has 3gb for the OS that can snap apps.
Both of these consoles will improve, so there is nothing to worry about. But, in saying that, it seems people are expecting more than what these consoles can do....
Edit:
Nonetheless, this just shows how it is actually pretty crazy how the xbox has 3gb for the OS that can snap apps.
Both of these consoles will improve, so there is nothing to worry about. But, in saying that, it seems people are expecting more than what these consoles can do....
Edit:
Oh wow. Ok, I'm assuming insiders said it was 2gb for the OS...and that's why there was confusion. Another reason to trust experts and not "insiders"
Neuromancer
Member
The guy's name is Bentley?
I'm actually curious what the source of info for the different people backing up that claim was. If it was just several people getting (incomplete/incorrect) info from the same place, that sort of lessens the value of giving a second confirmation.
Harlock
Member
The extra 1gb will unlocked further in the console cycle, to extend the hardware life. The same thing happened with the PSP and your clock speed.
crazygambit
Member
He sounds pretty much right. There probably was no need to optimize the renders further, which means the amount of RAM available wasn't likely a bottleneck. If the PS4 had less RAM available they would have had to optimize further. Remember this is still a launch window game, I'm sure they had to make a few compromises. The end result though is very impressive.
That wasn't done to artificially extend the life of the product, it had much more to do with battery life. As soon as battery capacity increased they unlocked the clock speed.
The game evidently used RAM to run.
josecitoxnyo
Member
I know the game looks awesome but seeing how the cpu is defined as just "decent" dissapoints me quite a bit. The game lacks of a good physics engine and i don´t see any kind of focus to try to improve it. At least for now.
That's the most charitable way of describing the CPU. They're in a hard place where if they were honest about the CPU in the PS4, they'd piss off a lot of people (including their bosses).
It's impressive what they've done, but I really hope they give more RAM to the developers. 3.5GB is excessive for an OS that really isn't doing much.
I think you misunderstood me. In the last sentence i was trying to say if you come from ps3 or 360 the graphics are looking great. In no way i was trying to push the ps4 into a "last gen" corner.
And it is not allowed anymore to compare with different systems and have your own opinion on if a game looks impressive or not?
The way i tried to give my opinion could have been not so arrogant i agree.
Have we seen any examples or talk of software being memory constrained? I think the additional memory would have very little impact on presentation output.
From my experience CPUs aren't very good with physics calculations
Reservation is the magic word.
It doesn't use all of the 3.5GB right now, that much is obvious.
For the future MP3 player engine. Or maybe some Morpheus features.
josecitoxnyo
Member
Yeah, it´s impressive for sure, i was talking about how they are now seeing and refering to the limitations that the console has on some fronts. The I/O is not surprise at all, it´s the big bottleneck that both consoles have. The CPU is AMD after all.
I guess we´ll need to wait to the first GTA on this gen to see how and old or fine tuned new physics engine performs. A mere upgrade in resolution and IQ overall is not enough to call a game next gen, at least in my book.
4.5gb of HAM?
OldAsUrSock
Banned
It is not being bad at their job. You use use all of the resources and see if you hit your target performance. If you don't then optimize further. There is no need to "code to the metal" when there isn't a need too for what you are aiming for. Sucker Punch showing how they are utilizing the memory may help other devs. They don't go into too much specific details, but they do not really need to.
systemfehler
Member
Interesting would be to know the current memory footprint of the OS after you turn the console in and then compare that with the memory still available. What could be a big feature that needs a few hundred MB? Morpheus? DLNA (...)?
Freedom = $1.05
Banned
Better to be over than under when it comes to reserving OS memory. It'll come down with time (both the PS3 and 360 saw the OS footprint shrink over the course of the generation) but after having suffered some of the issues they had last gen (like no OS level background music or party chat) they're probably playing it real safe for now. Plus, really, unless your game is super unoptimized it shouldn't be maxing out the 4.5-5 gigs of ram anyhow.
Sony might have features planned(Or not even planned) they want to implement later on.. For this they might need RAM, you cant take away the ram you gave to game devs so you want reserve some memory early on to grow. Later on they can give some memory back if they dont need it for the OS, but the other way around is almost impossible.
3.5GB just seems like overkill to me.
Stallion Free
Cock Encumbered
Could they have locked it at 60 fps if they had that insider-promised 6gb of gddr5 available?
ethomaz
Banned
Ryse uses a 900p buffer... 1080p buffer almost doubles the size of a 900p buffer... so it needs more than what you saw in Ryse but I agree they choose speed over size with inFAMOUS because they have fast memory to allocate any size of buffer.
Better safe then sorry.
Short answer - No
That is unless they were going over there ram budget which i doubt
The ram allocation of OS in these new consoles *is* overkill, but I think conversation around that has already derailed a couple of these tech postmortems, so I'll save any further ranting about it for another topic.
I don't know if this is responsible for the way lighting played off spray paint in the game, changing as it dried, but that's the first that made me think of. The spray paint effects are really well done.
Omnii-chan
Member
Everybody is complaining about the PS4 OS using 3GB of ram.
I'll probably get drawn back over time until they decide its safe enough for the system to use less without having problems or getting slower and even if they don't think of the positives;
Have you played Infamous? It's gorgeous already AND...
Have you noticed how goddamn buttery smooth the PS4's OS is?
I'll probably get drawn back over time until they decide its safe enough for the system to use less without having problems or getting slower and even if they don't think of the positives;
Have you played Infamous? It's gorgeous already AND...
Have you noticed how goddamn buttery smooth the PS4's OS is?
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
Maybe it's because a lot of console only gamers aren't familiar with this stuff, but there's no need to freak out at "only" 4-5 gigs of ram available for game use on a mass market console box.
On PC right now, new games just coming out still commonly have minimum requirements for only 4 gigs of system ram -total-. On a platform with a large OS overhead by default. While the GPU does add its own ram to the PC's ecosystem in this comparison, at the end of the day four to five gigs of ram available exclusively for game use on consoles is far from mediocre.
On PC right now, new games just coming out still commonly have minimum requirements for only 4 gigs of system ram -total-. On a platform with a large OS overhead by default. While the GPU does add its own ram to the PC's ecosystem in this comparison, at the end of the day four to five gigs of ram available exclusively for game use on consoles is far from mediocre.
MutonCommander
Banned
Didn't you once say that games were already using 6 GBs of RAM?
Kazuma Kiryu
Member
It really is an obscene amount of memory.
I was really surprised when I went to the ND presentation where Jason just said "yeah, we've got 5gb of ram" (so probably that 4.5gb + 512mb thing is true). I never thought they would use that much.
Sodding_Gamer
Member
Maybe the big OS RAM reservation is due to the suspend/resume feature that should be hitting PS4 soon? I can see that taking up a lot of RAM for the OS.
Hopefully it will get smaller as time goes on.
Hopefully it will get smaller as time goes on.
BradleyLove
Member
Easily filled with a touch of multi-tasking. A browser open, custom soundtrack playing, being able to flip to SEN store... All with a game still running. That's what the 3.5GB is for; extra room to allow other apps to run I'm parallel with your game
CGC was a no-go on PS3 due to a RAM shortage. The potential with PS4 is huge.
Just one idea off the top of my head: video editing. Being able to edit your video before sharing would be much better if you don't have to kill your game to do so. Having more RAM available outside of games allows such advanced applications to run without killing your game session.
I think it's a good thing.
The OS doesn't use 3.5GB. This fallacy needs to disappear. There's 3.5GB (minus that which the OS actually uses) available outside of the game for other applications.
AyaisMUsikWhore
Member
This is so true. I don't understand it. What is it using to render so sluggish? Html? I'm confused.
I Wish I could understand all that text but in summary of my limited knowledge, I'm guessing it means they were able to optimize the game without much sacrifice in some areas. Am I wrong?
Goodacre0081
Member
i think the PS3 footprint shrank due to necessity. to stay relevant the Sony engineers really needed to dig around and make the OS as efficient as possible. with such a huge reserve now they're not being pushed to streamline.
also, i don't really know what I'm talking about.
clutch.as.it.gets.
Member
Yeah, thats the biggest flaw. Even close to a building/object during a sunny TOD when aiming you see the shadow LOD changes very clear. Its a big flaw of the engine.
To be fair, if that is the reason for the bloated OS i'd accept the loss of ram to have that feature. Though without a doubt I think we'll at least be hitting 5 gigs (5.5 with flex?) when they slimline the OS down. Sony was smart in giving themselves lots of ram for the OS after what happened with the PS3.
Dark Octave
Banned
I know a guy who's last name is Bentley and has the Bentley logo on his arm.The guy's name is Bentley?
I just finished the game last night on good. I never do second playthroughs but I am looking forward to playing the bad side. The game looks great but I can't wait until games start to make it really look like a first gen PS4 title.
Shin-Ra
Junior Member
PS4's informed system architecture and wider user experience, February 20th 2013.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiNGZMx2vhY&feature=youtu.be&t=11m34s (11m 34s)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiNGZMx2vhY&feature=youtu.be&t=11m34s (11m 34s)
Mark Cerny said:
I can't wait to get my hands on my copy. The game looks great and SP did a fantastic job. The part about GPU computing is fascinating. I think there will be a lot of WOW's this gen, both regarding gameplay and graphics. My only wish remains is that a developer should make a game using atomontage engine.
PrivateWHudson
Member
In my head, I envision the os reservation for a full vr os. Something like a minecraft/home customizable os.
family_guy
Member
I disagree. Its not a desktop operating system. They should be able to do alot with 2 gigs or less. Its a games console and the games should be the focus. Not the OS. Taking away available game RAM for OS stuff is not a good idea. Android doesnt need that and does more than PS4's OS. I'll be honest and say that Sony is terrible at OS development when it comes to efficiency compared to MS and other companies.
Wishmaster92
Member
Listen to this guy, he's a ram expert. 4.5 gigs should be enough for any developer. Forever.
That thread, and how Leadbetter/Digital Foundry was crucified, is freaking embarrassing in retrospective.
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