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[mclem]

The software they sell can be purchased agnostic of the hardware they sell. Just because they have designed the software to work on their hardware doesn't make it ethically wrong to run the software on your own separate hardware. Once you've purchased the software, you've fulfilled your moral obligation to the company needed to utilize that software how you see fit.

I talked about this a little while back - back then it was in the context of Bayonetta 2.

I would say that there's a difference if a game is funded specifically to encourage sales of a given platform. From a first-party perspective, it may actually be reasonable business sense if a game makes a loss in its own right if - in turn - it helps boost sales of the overall ecosystem of the console; it can act as a loss-leader to some extent.

Put it this way: If emulation on PC was a big enough market to actually be competitive. Nintendo may not have had reason to fund Bayo 2 in the first place; if emulation were a big enough market to be competitive, *any* game on a platform that can be emulated - even first-party ones - would have to be budgeted and funded with an overall intent of making a profit entirely in its own right.

(Which shouldn't be read as "Therefore emulation is WRONG!", I'm just trying to highlight how the business decisions and ecosystems involved make it not a simple case of "I'm buying the game, I'm running it how I wish, that affects no-one.". It's not necessarily unreasonable to make the point that perhaps all games *should* be budgeted with the intent of making a profit in their own right, for one thing!)

I've been thinking a lot, the last few years, about the whole nuance of financing and budgeting in the games industry. There's a lot of complexity to it, and I think that lends itself in part to the inherent riskiness of the industry of late.

 

[Toparaman]

I'm glad that a larger audience can play BotW, even if it's not what Nintendo wants. Buy the game of course, but emulators have been proven legal in court (Sony vs. Bleem). I don't think it's unethical either. If Nintendo gave us a version of the game that ran well and looked technically up-to-snuff, then maybe it's a different conversation.

I bought a Switch to play Zelda, but I'm all for a high-quality emulation of the game, for those who want play a version that looks and runs better. I bet even the devs of BotW would appreciate it. It's usually only the business guys that balk at this stuff.

 

[petran79]

I think they might lose out on a few hundred thousand hardware sales (that's tops really IMHO), but gain millions, upon millions in software sales.

Software sales direct from their own PC store >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> profits from hardware.

Or are you saying EVERYONE who buys a nintendo platform is a PC gamer too? I doubt any significant portion of people buying a Switch are PC gamers. But I could be wrong.

Nintendo know sales will not realistically be affected. Even during Ultra64 days when they went berserk on emulators. Though at that time things were even less accessible to Windows uses,since you needed a Voodoo card to play OoT. 2000$ computer at least, 17 years ago.


It is just that they take negative impact as seriously as lost sales. With Cemu Nintendo's magic is gone. Switch emulators will be on their way too in a few years. Nintendo try to keep things in their own bubble that for better or for worse burst years ago. One reason former Nintendo systwm owners abandoned them in drones and moved on.
Current Switch or Wii U users should not bother at all. We need Nintendo's love, not wrath.

Also Nintendo arent Microsoft to benefit from Windows piracy.

 

[Lister]

Nintendo know sales will not realistically be affected. Even during Ultra64 days when they went berserk on emulators. Though at that time things were even less accessible to Windows uses,since you needed a Voodoo card to play OoT. 2000$ computer at least, 17 years ago.


It is just that they take negative impact as seriously as lost sales. With Cemu Nintendo's magic is gone. Switch emulators will be on their way too in a few years. Nintendo try to keep things in their own bubble that for better or for worse burst years ago. One reason former Nintendo systwm owners abandoned them in drones and moved on.
Current Switch or Wii U users should not bother at all. We need Nintendo's love, not wrath.

Also Nintendo arent Microsoft to benefit from Windows piracy.

Who's talking about piracy? A proper Nintendo store front on PC would bring in tons of profit for Nintendo, specifically, money thet they aren't seeing now.

 

[Peterthumpa]

The software they sell can be purchased agnostic of the hardware they sell. Just because they have designed the software to work on their hardware doesn't make it ethically wrong to run the software on your own separate hardware. Once you've purchased the software, you've fulfilled your moral obligation to the company needed to utilize that software how you see fit.

The CEMU developers are working to provide a better alternative to the people who buy these games. If Nintendo's business success is dependent on exclusive use of their hardware to play their software, and others are working to provide a better alternative hardware such that people don't need Nintendo's specific hardware, that is a flaw in Nintendo's business plan, not a flaw in the morals of the emulator developers. You gave them the money they asked for for the game, you don't owe them anything more past that point.

Edit:

That's your take, the ethical aspect of this specific situation is definitely not set in stone. There's a reason why Nintendo sells hardware as well, and there's a reason why they do NOT release their games on different consoles. I'd love to hear what Nintendo thinks about your point of view. If proprietary hardware was so secondary in this whole story, then why just don't follow Sega's footsteps then? Way less to worry about, and you're paying for the game right?

And again - I'm not against emulators. I'm against emulator developers making money by clearly focusing most of their development time to boot a specific game just to get more backers out of it. That's just wrong. You see, Paper Mario Color Splash took 6 months to even boot, but BotW boots in 3 days. Yeah, maybe the groundwork was already there, maybe there wasn't much to be worked on, but then again... that's all just... too convenient.

 

[iavi]

.. the game doesn't even run. And there's no telling when it will. Link falls through the ground and everything.

This article is horrible clickbait and the people in here caping for Nintendo are just as off the mark. The switch sold extremely well as has BOTW. There's no danger of the game flopping because CEMU can boot just past the title screen without breaking the game physics, and people who are so inclined to pirate can do so with much more ease with a an extremely easily soft modded Wii U--the game is actually completely playable there.

Emulators aren't opening up the already dead system to a world of pirates any more than it being incredibly easy to mod from a URL is, what it does do is offer a significantly better experience for the games of said dead system (and new system) --which is where I'm gathering most of this salt is really coming from under the guise of being so heavily invested in Nintendos bottom line.

 

[psyfi]

Cool, the more people who get to play this game the better

 

[IrishNinja]

some of ya'll really playing the victim card here

If those are reasons Switch is better, you're wrong:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1208226&

haha wow, this is some dhalsim level stretching right here

This would seriously severe the relations of Nintendo with other emulation developers, in case they needed to hire people for their virtual console.
Developers are not pawns.

it really wouldn't, they'd find quality work from a huge pool of devs who'd be happy to get paid, but again, moot point as nintendo's (thankfully) not yet doing anything here

.. the game doesn't even run. And there's no telling when it will. Link falls through the ground and everything.

exactly
i've no doubt it'll get to a playable level eventually, given the interest - xenoblade chronicles ended up running pretty amazing when i finally got around to trying it out on dolphin

but while the nintendo defense force hoping this gets shut down are ridiculous, a few folks fronting like emulation = definitive edition are likewise doing little but rushing to the fields to defend their platform of choice as well. you can love & support both emulation (and more importantly, game preservation) without getting carried away.

 

[Alo81]

That's your take, the ethical aspect of this specific situation is definitely not set in stone. There's a reason why Nintendo sells hardware as well, and there's a reason why they do NOT release their games on different consoles. I'd love to hear what Nintendo thinks about your point of view. If proprietary hardware was so secondary in this whole story, then why just don't follow Sega's footsteps then? Way less to worry about, and you're paying for the game right?

And again - I'm not against emulators. I'm against emulator developers making money by clearly focusing most of their development time to boot a specific game just to get more backers out of it. That's just wrong. You see, Paper Mario Color Splash took 6 months to even boot, but BotW boots in 3 days. Yeah, maybe the groundwork was already there, maybe there wasn't much to be worked on, but then again... that's all just... too convenient.

Then that is, again, a flaw in their business plan, not ethics.

They can sell hardware for whatever reasons they want. Its profitable for them, which is probably a large reason as to why. But that's unrelated to the software question. You're conflating a lot of business and ethics. Just because something is being sold, does not mean its required to be bought. If the user has an alternative method of running their software that doesn't require Nintendo's hardware, and has already paid for the software, they have done their due with the purchase. If Nintendo wanted more in return, they should ask that at point of sale or not sell it. To do otherwise is a business issue.

 

[petran79]

it really wouldn't, they'd find quality work from a huge pool of devs who'd be happy to get paid, but again, moot point as nintendo's (thankfully) not yet doing anything here
.

Trust is more important than money

 

[b0bbyJ03]

I support gaming to an extent that borders on stupidity because I love it so much and never want to harm it in any way (even tho the industry doesn't extend me the same respect). Like for example, when Witcher 3 came out I bought it at full price from GOG when I could have bought it discounted from a million other places just because I wanted to support CDPR or when I bought Rocket league for full price on steam after receiving it free through PSN to show appreciation for making my favorite game of that year. With that said, I see ZERO problems with playing emulated games. I'm not going to handicap my options because there are assholes out there who would abuse the privilege by pirating the game. Nintendo is notorious for not giving the fans what they want in the way they want it. People want to throw their money at them and they don't let them. I already purchased the game for Wii U and I will give zero fucks when I play this on an emulator.

 

[SMD]

I think they might lose out on a few hundred thousand hardware sales (that's tops really IMHO), but gain millions, upon millions in software sales.

Software sales direct from their own PC store >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> profits from hardware.

Or are you saying EVERYONE who buys a nintendo platform is a PC gamer too? I doubt any significant portion of people buying a Switch are PC gamers. But I could be wrong.

How did you come to that conclusion? Either Nintendo are going to sell millions of copies to people who aren't going to buy their console for Zelda or they'd only miss out on a few hundred thousand Switch sales cos that's the number of people who'll buy it on PC.
You can't have it both ways. Not to mention only Microsoft do this cos they're desperate to keep a grip on their ecosystem on PC. You don't see Sony bringing Uncharted or Horizon to PC.

 

[SMD]

Nintendo know sales will not realistically be affected. Even during Ultra64 days when they went berserk on emulators. Though at that time things were even less accessible to Windows uses,since you needed a Voodoo card to play OoT. 2000$ computer at least, 17 years ago.


It is just that they take negative impact as seriously as lost sales. With Cemu Nintendo's magic is gone. Switch emulators will be on their way too in a few years. Nintendo try to keep things in their own bubble that for better or for worse burst years ago. One reason former Nintendo systwm owners abandoned them in drones and moved on.
Current Switch or Wii U users should not bother at all. We need Nintendo's love, not wrath.

Also Nintendo arent Microsoft to benefit from Windows piracy.

My memory might be a little hazy on this but emulation in 1998 was nowhere near as widespread amongst gamers. UltraHLE started out with high requirements but with the glide wrapper and optimisations I was getting great performance from a TNT2 and 512mb RAM on a celeron processor just a couple of years later. You used to get disks with all sorts of emulators and ROMs down the market around 2001 and they still weren't as well known as they are now.

 

[Blam]

That's your take, the ethical aspect of this specific situation is definitely not set in stone. There's a reason why Nintendo sells hardware as well, and there's a reason why they do NOT release their games on different consoles. I'd love to hear what Nintendo thinks about your point of view. If proprietary hardware was so secondary in this whole story, then why just don't follow Sega's footsteps then? Way less to worry about, and you're paying for the game right?

And again - I'm not against emulators. I'm against emulator developers making money by clearly focusing most of their development time to boot a specific game just to get more backers out of it. That's just wrong. You see, Paper Mario Color Splash took 6 months to even boot, but BotW boots in 3 days. Yeah, maybe the groundwork was already there, maybe there wasn't much to be worked on, but then again... that's all just... too convenient.

You're making it seem like the game would never boot.

The game booted to the main menu either way. It was missing one system call, they didn't just go from scratch with that. We all would have been able to launch it if the system call was there.

Either way don't try to skew it to make it seem like it was just for that one game. They didn't need to add much (still work needed either way) to actually make it run all of the graphical stuff was already there.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

I really don't get the issue.

The game is perfectly playable on source hardware, even enjoyable... but what's wrong with wanting it to be objectively better?

You know what you're getting into when you buy Nintendo hardware. There is infinitely more capable tech out there. That's just a fact.

I'd more than likely just play it on Switch when I get one. But there will be a part of me jealous that others sooner or later will get a more stable, and prettier version of it.

Is that it? Jealously?

Fuck if I know, but it crazy.

 

[KingSnake]

I'm currently playing the game on Switch, but I bought already also the Wii U version from eshop and already ripped it to my PC. So it's waiting there patiently for CEMU to be able to play it.

Who knows, maybe I will even finish the game on Switch by then, but the game is so magnificent that I would play it once again on CEMU when it will work. BotW really deserve higher resolution and stable framerate.

 

[madjoki]

haha wow, this is some dhalsim level stretching right here

Not really. I can easily see there being similar devices made, but in form factor of Switch.
(Of course it will be taking loong time before those devices can emulate Wii U, let alone Switch, but that's not the point).

 

[Ritzboof]

ive managed to unplug from BOTW streams by giving it enough time for them to stack up into a daunting backlog, so i think im ready for BOTW to be playable in like a year. the amount of money and support theyre getting is making me hopeful, though. my mind would be blown if its working by summer, let alone like one month like some people are making it seem

is there some place where i can read about progress?

 

[wazoo]

Always the same discussion with emulators.

I have no problems with people buying the game and playing it with CEMU.

Reality check: if it happens, most people out there will download the game and play it without any fees. Maybe not on GAF but we are not the market.

 

[Erasus]

Emulation of PS2/Gamecube/Wii is soo good! Playing those games in 1080p and above is a great experience when HD remasters are unavailable!

Dont care about ethics, they are corperations! They dont need forum warriors to fight for them.
If I have the game on console imo I can rip the ISO and play in an emulator.
I know legally I cant but its not like people get caught for it lel

 

[Spyder_Monkey]

Emulation of PS2/Gamecube/Wii is soo good! Playing those games in 1080p and above is a great experience when HD remasters are unavailable!

Dont care about ethics, they are corperations! They dont need forum warriors to fight for them.
If I have the game on console imo I can rip the ISO and play in an emulator.
I know legally I cant but its not like people get caught for it lel

It's like a 12 year old wrote this after discovering emulation for the first time.

 

[Ritzboof]

I know legally I cant but its not like people get caught for it lel

downloading ISOs without actually owning the product is the illegal part. youll be hard pressed to get busted, but youre not supposed to talk about that stuff

 

[dsk1210]

downloading ISOs without actually owning the product is the illegal part. youll be hard pressed to get busted, but youre not supposed to talk about that stuff

I like how you left out the sentence from before that, the one where he says if i have the game on console I dont see a problem with ripping it.

 

[Ritzboof]

I like how you left out the sentence from before that, the one where he says if i have the game on console I dont see a problem with ripping it.

i was clarifying that that wasnt whats illegal. youre allowed to have a backup for the software you buy. either way, talking about not getting caught for illegal things isnt really something you do, and in the world of emulation its generally assumed for legal reasons that you got your ISO from a physical copy that you legally own