Come on, it's not that hard to understand. Sure, "there's piracy anyway" and "not ALL emulator users are pirates". That's obviously correct. But it is undeniably making piracy a whole lot easier and for a much larger audience. Just saying "it's not our responsibility how people use it" is not going to make it OK ethically.
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How 'The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild' Was Almost Instantly Emulated for PC
- Thread starter Kenzodielocke
- Start date
Come on, it's not that hard to understand. Sure, "there's piracy anyway" and "not ALL emulator users are pirates". That's obviously correct. But it is undeniably making piracy a whole lot easier and for a much larger audience. Just saying "it's not our responsibility how people use it" is not going to make it OK ethically.
Peterthumpa
Member
I'm sorry? "Preserving games" is the least of the problems here. I'm talking about potential financial losses (given the Switch's launch) caused by an emulator backed by people that is actively making money to its devs by the means of prioritizing a popular (and extremely recent) game release by Nintendo. If there's no ethical question at least to be thought about here, I must be really disconnected from reality.
CEMU is Wii U emulator, not Switch. Someone who pirates games isn't going to buy brand new hardware on launch.
And if someone pirates it to play, only reliable option is to use modded Wii U. CEMU is still too broken to be played on.
How so?
serenewarfare
Banned
I guess the argument is that if game preservation was really the sole goal, then you would open source all your development because it offers the greatest chance that those tools are always available to be used and developed upon.
I don't agree with that idea, but I think that's the basis of it.
LabouredSubterfuge
Member
Assume there's a lot of Nintendo shareholders posting in here.
petran79
Banned
This would seriously severe the relations of Nintendo with other emulation developers, in case they needed to hire people for their virtual console.
Developers are not pawns.
The WiiU is also so wide open you could drive a bus through the hole in regards to piracy. Anyone who has a WiiU and is inclined towards piracy would be doing so regardless.
LabouredSubterfuge
Member
Peterthumpa
Member
Yeah, but BotW is definitely one of the main reasons to buy a Switch now, especially people who do not own a Wii U (read: a lot). Also, yeah, all my posts are about "we're close to something unusual in the emulator scene". All I'm saying is that if BotW was flawlessly playable by now, I bet Nintendo would definitely do something.
It's not about being a bad person (although one could argue that buying the game is not enough if you don't own the hardware it was intended for since you don't care about "game preservation") but more about CEMU developers actively prioritizing BotW's release to atract more backers - and thus, more money.
Rats Off To Ya
Banned
Holy shit. Literally laughing out loud.
Looking forward to it here too. Nintendo get money, I get to play the apparent GOAT.
I just spent $500 bucks on a Switch, and now I'm pissed because people can play the game with superior graphics and framerate for free. I'm gonna use ethics as an argument, but really I'm trying to justify my purchase.
For reals though, I'm gonna play the shit out of this on PC after I finish it on Switch. Emulation is a godsend, at least until Nintendo can fix the atrocious framerate.
The thing is that they already said they will consider making it open source in the future. And computers that can run Windows and CEMU are not going away in your lifetimes, so that's plenty of time for them to open source it.
And even if they don't do it, there's still decaf, a open source Wii U emulator, and people can build on that instead.
I'm quite fine with having some emulators being closed source early on and the creator's being able to monetize it somewhat to make stable and quick development viable, and eventually one day make it open source.
DraStic on Android is an amazing and paid DS emulator. It's so much more optimized than the open source DesMume on PC. So much that you can even get better performance running DraStic through a Android emulator on PC. My good PC (GTX 970 +4690k) struggles with playing Final Fantasy 4 Heroes of Light when using higher resolutions. Meanwhile my 150$ Chinese smartphone has it running perfectly using DraStic.
I'm really very much alright with closed source in the initial life of emulators. Allows for a more focused work from the main Devs to work up to make a better base, and being able to monetize it somewhat promotes quick and optimized development that wouldn't be quite achieved for hobbyist working on it on their off time. CEMU and DraStic have amazing performance compared to open source alternatives.
Rats Off To Ya
Banned
This is where I'm coming from. Apparently this game is a masterpiece and the limited footage I've allowed myself to see looks surprisingly gorgeous given the hardware.
I just want to play the best possible version of BotW that I can. Fuck me, right?
Seriously, I was thinking last night that I should just drop the Wiiu version and play something else while CEMU gets more stable. But realistically that will probably take a long time so now I'm not sure what I want to do.
Bloodborne I had issues with too because of the performance, Breath of the Wild is like ten times worse on Wiiu.
masterkajo
Member
Well, my copy is still sealed and I will keep it in my shelve until CEMU allows me to play BotW in 4k on my PC. I have waited this long for this game so what is a few months more to experience it the best way possible?
Rats Off To Ya
Banned
If this year was less stacked and the Switch was a more intrinsically compelling platform then maybe I'd be willing to compromise. But, like, I still have Horizon to finish up, then Persona, Nier, Mass Effect, and whatever other recent games I've been waiting to play until I get a 1080 Ti.
In all honesty it doesn't feel all that different than waiting for a PC port. That's something I've grown accustomed to.
Agreed. In a dearth of good games waiting would suck. But right now? Waiting has never been easier.
Muskieratboi
Member
"Almost instantly emulated"...
Wow, what a clickbait title
But regardless, I'm frankly amazed at how far Cemu has come in such a short timeframe.
Major Kudos to the team.
I'm expecting BOTW to be properly playable by the 1.8.0 milestone in a couple months.
Till then, they fixed Bayonetta, so That's where I'm gonna be!
Wow, what a clickbait title
But regardless, I'm frankly amazed at how far Cemu has come in such a short timeframe.
Major Kudos to the team.
I'm expecting BOTW to be properly playable by the 1.8.0 milestone in a couple months.
Till then, they fixed Bayonetta, so That's where I'm gonna be!
Huh. I've not fought many Moblins as yet, so maybe I just haven't witnessed it. I'll keep my eyes open. Docked or portable?
As a software engineer, I do find the whole process fascinating.
Also as a software engineer, as long as people have, like, bought all the software in question, I don't particularly see why it's really any of my business how someone actually ends up playing it. I mean, it's not for me - I don't have nor particularly have nor otherwise need to have the required level of PC hardware for this, and I'm quite content with the Switch version honestly - but if you are set up for this, more power to you.
Also, if one game which was also released on a legacy platform being emulated means that the Switch is long term doomed, then Nintendo have bigger issues here than Zelda being emulated.
Looking forward to 4K screenshots.
Also as a software engineer, as long as people have, like, bought all the software in question, I don't particularly see why it's really any of my business how someone actually ends up playing it. I mean, it's not for me - I don't have nor particularly have nor otherwise need to have the required level of PC hardware for this, and I'm quite content with the Switch version honestly - but if you are set up for this, more power to you.
Also, if one game which was also released on a legacy platform being emulated means that the Switch is long term doomed, then Nintendo have bigger issues here than Zelda being emulated.
Looking forward to 4K screenshots.
Rats Off To Ya
Banned
This is a good point and I wonder if some of the apprehension around Cemu has to do with insecurity about the Switch's success. I wasn't a Gaffer at the time but I'm willing to bet people here weren't nearly as riled up about Skyward Sword running on Dolphin day one.
Smooth Operator
Member
You need a 9999$ PC
Ritzboof
Member
i wouldnt say that. if the game is optimized, any standard beast could probably run it with flying colors. its also apparently especially CPU intensive (which is pretty common for nintendo stuff, i think), so higher and higher resolutions have minimal impact on the games actual performance. i spent about $1000 on my PC and i think its far more than enough
that said, am i the only one thatd be more than satisfied with playing at 1080p?
also pretty disappointed to be reminded that a real WIIU will be required to rip BOTW for use with CEMU. i wouldnt sleep right knowing i didnt pay money for such an intense product, and id hate to buy one just to justify downloading a random copy intended for pirating
petran79
Banned
Unfortunately in a lot of cases rips done by experts are much better than what you'd achieve. Eg they optimize file structure access, correct various errors, add region patches etc
Sometimes they are even better than official discs (eg Dreamcast)
martino
Member
Capitalism and everything is a "loss of income" need to stop. You can't claim people emulating the game don't own a copy or would have bougth one if they go illegal solution.
Add to this emulation is a niche thing (even more when you need high end hardware to make it work)...you can't seriously speak of meaningfull losses if you keep that capitalism logic.
Also add playable emulation will probably take month and is highly cpu bound so it's not garante to work at decent framerate anytime soon, if you get the whole info...
So, dunno if you are deconnected from reality but you seems a little too much into emotion on the subject.
Wii U
You only really need a decent CPU, such as perhaps a i7-4770K, which is almost four years old at this point. The GPU requirements are very minimal.
No, they're not. People upload 30fps videos at 60fps to get a better bitrate out of youtube.
If the people looking into emulating the game are saying that it's only likely to ever get to 30fps, I'm going to guess there's something in the specifics of the games physics implementation that is tied to the games frame rate that would be non-trivial to adjust. Even if the cutscenes are unlocked, this doesn't mean that the game wouldn't start to get weird and wacky as soon as you start interacting with things outside of a scripted context.
Completely ignorant question:
My buddy and I split a copy of the Wii U version so when we decide to replay the game in a few years (both playing on Switch now) we'll be able to do it through CEMU. Am I able to get a rip of my purchased copy somehow or will I have to download the files?
My buddy and I split a copy of the Wii U version so when we decide to replay the game in a few years (both playing on Switch now) we'll be able to do it through CEMU. Am I able to get a rip of my purchased copy somehow or will I have to download the files?
LordRaptor
Member
It's not just that, it is that collaborative efforts towards a goal generally result in better quality software faster, particularly where interested parties have highly specialised knowledge that can be introduced without prerequisite generalised knowledge (for example someone who is an expert in rendering techniques and shaders can work on just the renderer).
The argument against closed source projects is that they suck the oxygen out of the environment, and always have done. If CEMU works fine, why not spend your efforts on something that doesn't, rather than reinventing the wheel and remaking CEMU 'the right way'.
e: also - of course - it provides transparency that you are not doing anything surreptitious like data harvesting or bitcoin mining, are not using copyrighted materials like a leaked SDK, and are not breaching GPL
Oops! Hadn't even crossed my mind as a possibility.Wii U
Lister
Banned
I think they might lose out on a few hundred thousand hardware sales (that's tops really IMHO), but gain millions, upon millions in software sales.
Software sales direct from their own PC store >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> profits from hardware.
Or are you saying EVERYONE who buys a nintendo platform is a PC gamer too? I doubt any significant portion of people buying a Switch are PC gamers. But I could be wrong.
Lister
Banned
I linked to a youibe video earlier in the thread of someone playing Mario Kart at 4K 60 fPS with an i5 and a mid range GPU.
So more like a $700 PC.
Crimsonclaw111
Member
You can download some homebrew to an SD card and dump the game over wifi. It's simple but it takes a long time.
kiunchbb
www.dictionary.com
You must also think that it is unethical for someone to transfer songs from their CD to phone. Everyone should just rebuy their collections in iTunes.
The software they sell can be purchased agnostic of the hardware they sell. Just because they have designed the software to work on their hardware doesn't make it ethically wrong to run the software on your own separate hardware. Once you've purchased the software, you've fulfilled your moral obligation to the company needed to utilize that software how you see fit.
The CEMU developers are working to provide a better alternative to the people who buy these games. If Nintendo's business success is dependent on exclusive use of their hardware to play their software, and others are working to provide a better alternative hardware such that people don't need Nintendo's specific hardware, that is a flaw in Nintendo's business plan, not a flaw in the morals of the emulator developers. You gave them the money they asked for for the game, you don't owe them anything more past that point.
Edit:
I'm playing on WiiU and have seen the same thing happen once. It's weird!
coughlanio
Member
I bought a Switch and Zelda, but I'm looking forward to trying this out in CEMU. Does that make me a pirate?
Napalm_Frank
Member
The police are on their way.
KojiKnight
Member
So you own a Wii U (necessary to dump the game) and a physical or digital copy of the Wii U game?
If you don't, and you download a WUD, then yes you are a pirate.
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