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[Ascenion]

If only he was smart enough to check underneath the cathedral in the fifteen years between buying it and Drake coming back.

Alternatively 90% of the conflict could've been avoided if Sam hadn't made up his stupid lie and just convinced Drake to join him and Rafe.

That's part of the anti-thesis. Rafe isn't smart, he just has money. Uncharted 3 makes that second bit impossible. Not to mention given what Rafe says at the end, he'd have betrayed Nate halfway through anyway, dude spent 15 years sipping on ciroc and Drake's Fortune flavored haterade.

 

[rashbeep]

Well Rafe has a massive inferiority complex. You got his motivations down but you missed the point a bit. His interaction with Sully during the auction explains it all. Yeah he's got money but it isn't his money. He wants to get the fast car and the coke but he wants it on his own. So by I'm assuming using his families connections he looks for a massive treasure to make a name for himself so bam Avery.

Spoiler

The main villain issue is while he fails at finding Avery, Nate finds 2 lost cities and El Dorado, but walks away with nothing. Rafe sees that as a waste and begins to feel inferior to Nate thinking he'd have done it better. Lo behold Nate pops back into the Avery search and immediately does his Nate magic and finds it under Rafe's nose further disenfranchising Rafe in his own mind.

Rafe is a great villain because of his bitter resent meant towards himself exhibited through his unwarranted hate for others. Rafe is a damn brilliant character if you can relate. He's truly the anti-thesis to Nate the very opposite of started from the bottom now we here.

Yea, I didn't mind Rafe too much. He felt like a believable character.

Nadine on the other hand..

 

[YankeeDonB]

Well Rafe has a massive inferiority complex. You got his motivations down but you missed the point a bit. His interaction with Sully during the auction explains it all. Yeah he's got money but it isn't his money. He wants to get the fast car and the coke but he wants it on his own. So by I'm assuming using his families connections he looks for a massive treasure to make a name for himself so bam Avery.

Spoiler

The main villain issue is while he fails at finding Avery, Nate finds 2 lost cities and El Dorado, but walks away with nothing. Rafe sees that as a waste and begins to feel inferior to Nate thinking he'd have done it better. Lo behold Nate pops back into the Avery search and immediately does his Nate magic and finds it under Rafe's nose further disenfranchising Rafe in his own mind.

Rafe is a great villain because of his bitter resent meant towards himself exhibited through his unwarranted hate for others. Rafe is a damn brilliant character if you can relate. He's truly the anti-thesis to Nate the very opposite of started from the bottom now we here.

This is a good explanation, and seeing him as a antithesis to Nate does serve the character well.

That doesn't really address my core complaint about the character though -- if his issue is basically affluenza -- he feels inadequate because he hasn't earned anything for himself -- why does this result in a treasure-hunting life of crime? Finding a big treasure is sort of like winning the lottery, most will not interpret it as "earned wealth." Like, I could see Rafe saying "screw you dad, I'm striking out on my own and heading up a tech startup -- I'm going to make my own fortune on my own terms." Or "Dad, give me a part of the business to run wholly as my own and I'll show you my business mettle!" Or "screw this life of toil and industry, I'm going to bum around Cancun and squander my ill deserved wealth in a life of empty hedonism," or whatever. But "I'm going to devote my life to a quixotic pursuit of a likely mythical pirate treasure, and do so in a way that involves self-funding a mercenary army" I just don't get it, and I didn't see enough of Rafe to ever get a sense why that was the path he took.

It's silly pulp, but at least Nate and Sam's fascination with archaeology and treasure hunting have a core connection to their history and personalities as presented.

 

[Gbraga]

If only he was smart enough to check underneath the cathedral in the fifteen years between buying it and Drake coming back.

Alternatively 90% of the conflict could've been avoided if Sam hadn't made up his stupid lie and just convinced Drake to join him and Rafe.

If only Nate didn't ignore the fact that Elena was always adventure-hungry in every game so far, even going as far as pushing Nate to continuing when he wanted to give up in 1 and 2, and instead of lying, told her the truth from the moment Sam showed up, that would avoid all of their conflict, and she would tag along for the whole journey.

I know the game does talk about it in both Sully and Elena's dialogue, but I wish that it just didn't happen. Having them along for the whole game would be so much better :/

Not to mention it would make more sense given the history of the franchise, but whatever.

I missed Chloe too, I wonder if Hennig's game would have her.

The set up for the whole thing is an unjustified and unresolved whopper of a lie, followed by another lie as Nate keeps things from Elena for no reason. Sam is an epic asshole, followed up next by Nate, and its pretty bonkers to think that they live happily ever after when they've killed hundreds for that lie. Throw in the space magic that teleports Elena to the cliffside Nate falls off, and the muddled justification for Nate having to go it alone for his brother in the end because of a short wall, and I really don't get the accolades for the story.

I don't need a great story to enjoy games, but if we're going to pin the success of game upon its stellar story and characters (as this game gets spoken about here) I just don't see it.

Yeah, I agree. It's when you start to sacrifice the game's pacing to tell a story that this kind of shit really gets annoying. It's much easier to not care about those inconsistencies if your overall experience with the game is fantastic, but when it's not, what might seem like a nitpick is actually pretty important.

 

[Creamium]

First big problem I have with U4 is the pacing, which has been discussed at length. The other games had a much better feel for momentum, not dragging individual bits on for too long. There's a lot of focus on traversal in U4, but it's not engaging for long stretches. It's a particularly bad design decision to suddenly have an entire chapter dedicated to that (21) when you're deep in the finale of the game. That's one example, but there are more. I liked ch16 as a unit, but in the context of the game it was a bit poorly placed, coming right after an already slow chapter. I have no problem with less shoot-outs, but replace it with gameplay that's also engaging. The first half of the game is an even bigger offender. I actually enjoyed the second half more, which was more focused and felt like a long tribute to Drake's Fortune.

On the other hand, there's the tone of the story, which I felt was an even bigger miss. The approach closely resembled TLOU, and the mistake here was using this influence for a franchise that wasn't a perfect fit for it. TLOU had great introspective moments, but that fit the universe and the characters. The bond Ellie and Joel developed for example, was complexer and cut deeper than anything in the Uncharted universe. From the outset TLOU is way more character-driven, whereas Uncharted was kinda forced in this direction.

This is because Uncharted is -and should be- pure lighthearted pulp, with characters that weren't rounded or complex like Joel or Ellie were, which is fine. As much as I love Nate and Elena, I'm not that interested in their relationship therapy. I realized this when the optional convos in the jeep/elevator chapter didn't do much for me. Don't get me wrong, I love them trying something new, but this was the wrong way to approach it. You can't inject mechanics that worked in TLOU, and expect them to work in a different franchise.

Combine these two points, and you get a game that tries to challenge what makes an Uncharted game (which I applaud), but ultimately fails at it. It was a gamble on two sides, and they lost both times.

I replayed all the previous games when the remastered collection hit, and had a new-found love for Drake's Fortune. That game benefitted from that polish tremendously, and honestly I had a blast playing through it again on Crushing. It was all the more surprising to find then, that I had more fun with any of the games in the Collection than U4. Yes, I'm also crazy enough to put DF above U4. You can degrade that game to a 'shooting gallery' if you want, but it also has slower moments and points of traversal, just shorter and better timed. It also doesn't wear out its welcome, whereas U4 could've used some editing and cutting.

Uncharted 4 showed that Hennig was just better at directing this franchise. I love what Druckmann did in TLOU (which is an understatement, it's one of my all time favorite games), but the experiments ultimately didn't pan out.

 

[Gbraga]

First big problem I have with U4 is the pacing, which has been discussed at length. The other games had a much better feel for momentum, not dragging individual bits on for too long. There's a lot of focus on traversal in U4, but it's not engaging for long stretches. It's a particularly bad design decision to suddenly have an entire chapter dedicated to that (21) when you're deep in the finale of the game. That's one example, but there are more. I liked ch16 as a unit, but in the context of the game it was a bit poorly placed, coming right after an already slow chapter. I have no problem with less shoot-outs, but replace it with gameplay that's also engaging. The first half of the game is an even bigger offender. I actually enjoyed the second half more, which was more focused and felt like a long tribute to Drake's Fortune.

On the other hand, there's the tone of the story, which I felt was an even bigger miss. The approach closely resembled TLOU, and the mistake here was using this influence for a franchise that wasn't a perfect fit for it. TLOU had great introspective moments, but that fit the universe and the characters. The bond Ellie and Joel developed for example, was complexer and cut deeper than anything in the Uncharted universe. From the outset TLOU is way more character-driven, whereas Uncharted was kinda forced in this direction.

This is because Uncharted is -and should be- pure lighthearted pulp, with characters that weren't rounded or complex like Joel or Ellie were, which is fine. As much as I love Nate and Elena, I'm not that interested in their relationship therapy. I realized this when the optional convos in the jeep/elevator chapter didn't do much for me. Don't get me wrong, I love them trying something new, but this was the wrong way to approach it. You can't inject mechanics that worked in TLOU, and expect them to work in a different franchise.

Combine these two points, and you get a game that tries to challenge what makes an Uncharted game (which I applaud), but ultimately fails at it. It was a gamble on two sides, and they lost both times.

I replayed all the remasters when the Collection hit, and had a new-found love for Drake's Fortune. That game benefitted from that polish tremendously, and honestly I had a blast playing through it again on Crushing. It was all the more surprising to find then, that I didn't have as much fun with U4 than any of the games in the Collection. Yes, I'm also crazy enough to put DF above U4. You can degrade that game to a 'shooting gallery' if you want, but it also has slower moments and points of traversal, just shorter and better timed. It also doesn't wear out its welcome, whereas U4 could've used some editing and cutting.

Uncharted 4 showed that Hennig was just better at directing this franchise. I love what Druckmann did in TLOU (which is an understatement, it's one of my all time favorite games), but the experiments ultimately didn't pan out.

Yep, that's it. Completely agree with you.

 

[reKon]

Game offer's top of the genre gunplay/melee combat/level design/A.I. and easily being the best in the Uncharted series....

People who are probably tired of gaming (or just shooters), but don't realize it and trolls flood into a the thread actually saying that the combat gameplay is boring/archaic.

I can understand the bad pacing criticism and too much climbing, but actually say the combat is boring, just LMAO. That's a lazy cricitism and I would love for the people who believe this to explain themselves (using other games as example) because it's utter bullshit.

If you enjoy TPS's and this the combat is "boring" for you, just quit playing TPS's for a while.

 

[QuantumBro]

Game really should've ended with a choice; Drake goes after Sam to find the pirate ships, or Drake leaves with Elena and Sully and is able to have the normal family life. Drake having his cake and eating it too undermines the whole plot.

That's part of the anti-thesis. Rafe isn't smart, he just has money. Uncharted 3 makes that second bit impossible. Not to mention given what Rafe says at the end, he'd have betrayed Nate halfway through anyway, dude spent 15 years sipping on ciroc and Drake's Fortune flavored haterade.

But you see even if he's a complete idiot, it's 15 whole years. Even Drake should've found the cave in the time he was still helping Rafe because it was so obvious. And hell, by the time Drake and Sam get back, Rafe has hired a mercenary group consisting of thousands of people and somehow none of them have found a cave underneath their headquarters. Just poor writing.

And honestly, Sam and Drake were more bad guys than Rafe ever was. He had no problems helping them out with money and connections and all he wanted was a share of the treasure and some acknowledgement that he helped find the treasure.

The set up for the whole thing is an unjustified and unresolved whopper of a lie, followed by another lie as Nate keeps things from Elena for no reason. Sam is an epic asshole, followed up next by Nate, and its pretty bonkers to think that they live happily ever after when they've killed hundreds for that lie. Throw in the space magic that teleports Elena to the cliffside Nate falls off, and the muddled justification for Nate having to go it alone for his brother in the end because of a short wall, and I really don't get the accolades for the story.

I don't need a great story to enjoy games, but if we're going to pin the success of game upon its stellar story and characters (as this game gets spoken about here) I just don't see it.

If only Nate didn't ignore the fact that Elena was always adventure-hungry in every game so far, even going as far as pushing Nate to continuing when he wanted to give up in 1 and 2, and instead of lying, told her the truth from the moment Sam showed up, that would avoid all of their conflict, and she would tag along for the whole journey.

I know the game does talk about it in both Sully and Elena's dialogue, but I wish that it just didn't happen. Having them along for the whole game would be so much better :/

Not to mention it would make more sense given the history of the franchise, but whatever.

I missed Chloe too, I wonder if Hennig's game would have her.

Elena doesn't feel human in this with the way she doesn't care that she's treated by shit by Drake the whole game. It also felt weird that her and Sam were BFF by the end of that game.

 

[ghibli99]

When I played through and finished it at launch, I thought it was one of the best games of the generation. I left so much undone, and like TLOU, I figured I'd go right back to it, ratchet up the difficulty and collect everything, get trophies, etc., but I have absolutely zero desire to do so.

I'm not entirely sure why that is. I guess I don't like the combat, traversal, and discovery anymore (I prefer those things in TR), there's no skills/crafting (which contributes to the feeling of growth), and at the end of the day, I realize I played it mainly for the visuals, technology, and story.

Having experienced those (and the time that has passed between UC3 and this), I just don't see the point anymore in going back. Still very happy I played it, but it's not something that compelled me to replay it.

Contrast this with Ratchet & Clank, which absolutely hooked me for the plat, and was a blast probably 95% of the time I was doing so.

 

[Ascenion]

This is a good explanation, and seeing him as a antithesis to Nate does serve the character well.

That doesn't really address my core complaint about the character though -- if his issue is basically affluenza -- he feels inadequate because he hasn't earned anything for himself -- why does this result in a treasure-hunting life of crime? Finding a big treasure is sort of like winning the lottery, most will not interpret it as "earned wealth." Like, I could see Rafe saying "screw you dad, I'm striking out on my own and heading up a tech startup -- I'm going to make my own fortune on my own terms." Or "Dad, give me a part of the business to run wholly as my own and I'll show you my business mettle!" Or "screw this life of toil and industry, I'm going to bum around Cancun and squander my ill deserved wealth in a life of empty hedonism," or whatever. But "I'm going to devote my life to a quixotic pursuit of a likely mythical pirate treasure, and do so in a way that involves self-funding a mercenary army" I just don't get it, and I didn't see enough of Rafe to ever get a sense why that was the path he took.

It's silly pulp, but at least Nate and Sam's fascination with archaeology and treasure hunting have a core connection to their history and personalities as presented.

I just assumed off the bat given the auction again, and what we know about Sully and the general crowd , that Rafe's inheritance was less than legal to begin with. You don't just wind up in a massive crowd of rich criminals bidding on stolen merchandise worth millions. Couple that with Marlowe and Lazarevic and it makes sense. Rafe wanted a name in the underground and the spotlight. I think this is also implied with the epilogue.

Spoiler

Looking at Rafe Nate and Elena go the straight and narrow so Cassie won't/can't become Rafe, keep her away from that life and those people. Teach her values and passion. A Rafe is very easy to create with sterotypical rich parents.

Game really should've ended with a choice; Drake goes after Sam to find the pirate ships, or Drake leaves with Elena and Sully and is able to have the normal family life. Drake having his cake and eating it too undermines the whole plot.



But you see even if he's a complete idiot, it's 15 whole years. Even Drake should've found the cave in the time he was still helping Rafe because it was so obvious. And hell, by the time Drake and Sam get back, Rafe has hired a mercenary group consisting of thousands of people and somehow none of them have found a cave underneath their headquarters. Just poor writing.
.

I attribute that to the suspension of disbelief. You've got the wrong items and the wrong direction and you're down a brain. This was really Sam's baby not Nate or Rafe. Rafe also lacks the inquisitive background of the Drakes. Coupled with frustration and rage I can easily see him taking 15 years off and on. I don't belief it constant. As for Nate after the prison break I just don't think his heart was ever really in it anymore. So he likely wasn't giving it his all.

 

[Kal-El814]

The pacing of U4 is lousy, the enemy variety is lousy, Sam is incredibly well-acted but has a lousy personality, Nate treats Elena like she's lousy (including burning her like he did in DF, despite being married to her now and barely knowing her then).. etc. The list goes on.

And it's a bummer, because the few combat areas that are open, filled with grass, grapple points and enemies... that's as fun as Uncharted combat has ever been, and I found them really enjoyable.

Then after one of those bits there's a flashback to young Drake in an old woman's house, featuring the most boring gameplay in the series by a huge margin, bothering to tell the backstory of a character that changes nothing, and explains the origin of Nate's name, as if anyone ever cared about that at all.

It's a wildly bipolar game.

 

[Fredrik]

I think for an Uncharted 5, it will need to take cues from the modern action-adventure trend of being semi open-world, and giving treasure finding an immediate meta reason to exist, like unlocking perks or something, if they go that far. Incentivize exploration, they make big beautiful worlds that the game can't wait to rush you through in search of the next bridge Nathan will hang onto for dear life (but we know he'll be OK)

I hope they let Nathan rest now, I Love Uncharted but I don't want to see Uncharted 5, the story has the perfect ending now. I guess they could make a new story with... well, you know who, no more spoilers... but they really don't need to and I don't want them to. GOTY 2016 is a nice enough way to end this saga.

As for Naughty Dog I hope they'll start completely new game series now. The Last of Us 2 will probably happen but after that I hope they get to explore something new to them, not crash or jak etc. After seeing the indoor details and everyday clutter in the epilogue I hope they'll try something more ordinary than ruins and tombs etc. Their lead characters are always too skinny too imo, tall skinny/muscular macho guys and skinny girls with few curves, so I hope they try something else with that too next time, they seriously need to give the characters some meat on their bones. But whatever they do I know I'll still be there day 1, ND is one of the most consistently brilliant devs around on consoles.

 

[YankeeDonB]

I just assumed off the bat given the auction again, and what we know about Sully and the general crowd , that Rafe's inheritance was less than legal to begin with. You don't just wind up in a massive crowd of rich criminals bidding on stolen merchandise worth millions. Couple that with Marlowe and Lazarevic and it makes sense. Rafe wanted a name in the underground and the spotlight. I think this is also implied with the epilogue.

Spoiler

Looking at Rafe Nate and Elena go the straight and narrow so Cassie won't/can't become Rafe, keep her away from that life and those people. Teach her values and passion. A Rafe is very easy to create with sterotypical rich parents.

If that is indeed the case, it would certainly make me more sympathetic to the character.

Basically affluenza crossed w/ being a criminal scion. Definitely potentially interesting. Would have been nice to have more time with Rafe to get a better handle on him. Without that, I'm still left w/ an overriding sense of a bland and mostly one-dimensional character.

I suppose that's my core criticism of the game -- I was happy w/ the ratio of shooting and other stuff. In U2 I got tired of enemy waves right quick. But I would have been a lot happier if the balance of the other stuff in U4 was tipped much more heavily to character interaction and cutscenes, and less to traversal. The game felt rooted in characterization and character interaction, but there wasn't actually that much of it given the length (and much of what there was, particularly during traversal, seemed like filler). And with everything so well rendered and acted, I find myself less inclined to paint in the missing bits than w/ a less cinematic and less linear presentation.

 

[pr0cs]

On a technical level uc4 is amazing but story wise the game really falls apart.
I missed the supernatural aspects all the other games had.
No real character progression (socially, spiritually, etc)
Absolutely unforgivable game mechanics (you can't join me by climbing this wall because there isn't a way but somehow I magically have a rope that will carry me swinging around like spiderman)... WTF
It is a real shame, probably my biggest disappointment thus far this gen because after TLOU I figured uc4 would be amazing.

 

[Cheat Code]

Easily the worst of Naughty Dog's modern output. You can tell how cobbled together it was after the Naughty Dog exodus.

 

[Rival]

I enjoyed uncharted 4 and thought it was fun but I would put it firmly behind 2,3, and tlou. I just won't remember much about it other than it was really pretty. I thought rise of the tomb raider on PC was a way better game.

 

[HueyFreeman]

ive been an uncharted fan since naughty dog quietly released the initial trailer for their new "project big" which turned into UC. I remember following it closely when game informer did a big spread on it.

And the thing I was excited for? Exploration in a big open environment, and platforming. The combat was always secondary to me, so as the series evolved and the focus came to be on the "set pieces" that fans and reviewers are so focused on mentioning and judging the game on the basis of, I was understandably a bit disappointed. So UC4 is truly the game I always wanted UC to be - to me, I feel like ND finally listened to what a group of us having been saying from the beginning. The series beating heart is in adventure, not in gunplay. UC4 for my part nails that. The pacing is perfect as an large adventure with ebbs and flows and highs and lows. The discussion about the pacing being horrible I feel like is mostly coming from people who want more "set pieces" - this being the apparently agreed upon term. To me, that's not what the series original purpose and strength was, and the Straley/druckmann combo did a phenomenal job of crystallizing it soriginal strengths with UC4: story, exploration, adventure, platforming.

Suck it, Set-piecers.

 

[Lingitiz]

Easily the worst of Naughty Dog's modern output. You can tell how cobbled together it was after the Naughty Dog exodus.

I don't get the sense that it was cobbled together. It feels polished and fully realized, I just feel like the game overall gets pulled in lots of different directions. Like others have said, the combat is the best in the series but there's just too little of it. Also on harder difficulties it completely falls apart and plays unbalanced and frustrating. Action setpieces are also way too few and spaced far apart.

The platforming is dated and they did not do enough to it to make it have any sort of weight or tension. It's worse this time around because this one has the most platforming of any game in the series. There are too many slow walking sequences too.

It all comes down to pacing, but I think with other games we generally complain about rushed characterization or contrived story points to get a fast conclusion. Instead, UC4 runs a little too long and with too much expository filler, getting up it's own ass at times. I don't get the sense they didn't make the game they wanted to make. It's just that the one they did is not exactly what I want out of a UC game, despite it being still great overall.

 

[AudioEppa]

Going into Uncharted 4 I didn't know what to expect beyond amazing graphics, but surprisingly the approach they took by slowing it down with a more emotional narrative, rather than just a few quick lines and back into action was welcomed to me as a gamer who's bored of that formula.

We get plenty of open world / make your own adventure games and games where the storytelling is just ok enough, but with the last of us and most recently with uncharted 4, the extra push within the narrative is what highlights what could have easily been another video game where you shoot people, until the next location where can shoot even more people, or break their neck. Going in U4 I didn't want to play anything like the previous games, because naughty dog overall has improved since U3 originally on the market, playing it recently it's a great game, better then 1&2.

To wrap up my post, this is how naughty dog should continue with all of their games going forward, of course they going to listen to all the feedback with each game being judged on different aspects. But in my heartfelt opinion, since the last of us naughty dog has created it's own special lane within video games, which has inspired other developers to bring something more to their games, of course not every developer will take that influence upon their title, but clearly there's a huge audience that wants a deep narrative to give them a reason to be invested.

It's fun having your head held, especially by naughty dog lol

Can't wait for U4 story dlc.

 

[RespectThySole]

First big problem I have with U4 is the pacing, which has been discussed at length. The other games had a much better feel for momentum, not dragging individual bits on for too long. There's a lot of focus on traversal in U4, but it's not engaging for long stretches. It's a particularly bad design decision to suddenly have an entire chapter dedicated to that (21) when you're deep in the finale of the game. That's one example, but there are more. I liked ch16 as a unit, but in the context of the game it was a bit poorly placed, coming right after an already slow chapter. I have no problem with less shoot-outs, but replace it with gameplay that's also engaging. The first half of the game is an even bigger offender. I actually enjoyed the second half more, which was more focused and felt like a long tribute to Drake's Fortune.

On the other hand, there's the tone of the story, which I felt was an even bigger miss. The approach closely resembled TLOU, and the mistake here was using this influence for a franchise that wasn't a perfect fit for it. TLOU had great introspective moments, but that fit the universe and the characters. The bond Ellie and Joel developed for example, was complexer and cut deeper than anything in the Uncharted universe. From the outset TLOU is way more character-driven, whereas Uncharted was kinda forced in this direction.

This is because Uncharted is -and should be- pure lighthearted pulp, with characters that weren't rounded or complex like Joel or Ellie were, which is fine. As much as I love Nate and Elena, I'm not that interested in their relationship therapy. I realized this when the optional convos in the jeep/elevator chapter didn't do much for me. Don't get me wrong, I love them trying something new, but this was the wrong way to approach it. You can't inject mechanics that worked in TLOU, and expect them to work in a different franchise.

Combine these two points, and you get a game that tries to challenge what makes an Uncharted game (which I applaud), but ultimately fails at it. It was a gamble on two sides, and they lost both times.

I replayed all the previous games when the remastered collection hit, and had a new-found love for Drake's Fortune. That game benefitted from that polish tremendously, and honestly I had a blast playing through it again on Crushing. It was all the more surprising to find then, that I had more fun with any of the games in the Collection than U4. Yes, I'm also crazy enough to put DF above U4. You can degrade that game to a 'shooting gallery' if you want, but it also has slower moments and points of traversal, just shorter and better timed. It also doesn't wear out its welcome, whereas U4 could've used some editing and cutting.

Uncharted 4 showed that Hennig was just better at directing this franchise. I love what Druckmann did in TLOU (which is an understatement, it's one of my all time favorite games), but the experiments ultimately didn't pan out.

Excellent post. Chapter 16 had me laughing at how bad it's placement was. It eventually turned to anger, but I couldn't help but laugh that they would place a young Drake chapter after a chapter that was solely downtime and a playable cutscene.(Nadine fight) Not to mention the entire chapter 12-16 section is pretty damn slow to begin with. Chapter 12 is entirely traversal and the dumb puzzle Nate says the answer to before you even start it. Chapter 13 was plagued by it's dull first half that featured nothing but traversal. There wasn't even anything interesting storywise aside from that note to break the monotony. Chapter 14 was mostly downtime with the big fight tacked on at the end and leads to the aforementioned chapter 15 which was also slow. The game's momentum was at a crawl when they threw chapter 16 at us when it should've been ramping up after that story bit. I mean I thought that the game had to pick up at some point. The first third of it was already plodding.(tbh though, in hindsight I actually like that section more than 12-16) Atleast it wasn't just climbing in a big green jungle zone and they were quicker.

Chapter 21 wasn't a good idea either. We already had way more climbing than what was needed and yet they placed a chapter of nothing but climbing in the penultimate chapter of the game. There's way too much start and stop with this game unlike Uncharted 2 where the downtime was actually a refreshing break from the action. Here it just becomes expected and mind numbing. We don't need more downtime following downtime sections.

One thing that really stood out to me was how they placed the boat shooting sequence at the start of the game. It felt out of place and wasn't memorable. I would've liked to see it placed in it's proper chapter(13) right after we see that badass impending storm, but instead we're treated to more climbing

Also, they tried to staple on elements from TLoU onto the Uncharted DNA and it just doesn't work well in this universe. Ellie is a much better companion than Sam and the setting gives the game way more tension so the quiet moments never feel dull. You also have better reasons to explore with the scavenging.

Uncharted is at it's best as lighthearted pulp with Nate wisecracking throughout, not this dreary crap. I'm sorry, but the characters are a little too one note and underutilized for me to give a damn.(like who actually feared for Nate's marriage, Druckmann wasn't going to break them up in the final game) Why is there so much climbing instead of more time with the villains or Sully or Chloe or anyone but Sam?

The only character other than a Nate with a real presence is Sam who just sucks. That's why my favorite chapters(aside from 11) were when Elena gets back and the game starts allowing some fun. Not 19 though. That chapter had some terrible design. Way too many exploding mummies.

 

[Neiteio]

Excellent post. Chapter 16 had me laughing at how bad it's placement was. It eventually turned to anger, but I couldn't help but laugh that they would place a young Drake chapter after a chapter that was solely downtime and a playable cutscene.(Nadine fight) Not to mention the entire chapter 12-16 section is pretty damn slow to begin with. Chapter 12 is entirely traversal and the dumb puzzle Nate says the answer to before you even start it. Chapter 13 was plagued by it's dull first half that featured nothing but traversal. There wasn't even anything interesting storywise aside from that note to break the monotony. Chapter 14 was mostly downtime with the big fight tacked on at the end and leads to the aforementioned chapter 15 which was also slow. The game's momentum was at a crawl when they threw chapter 16 at us when it should've been ramping up after that story bit. I mean I thought the game has to pick up at some point, right? The first third of it was already plodding.(tbh though, in hindsight I actually like that section more than 12-16) Atleast it wasn't just climbing in a big green jungle zone and they were quicker.

Chapter 21 wasn't a good idea either. We've already way more climbing than we needed in this game and yet they placed a chapter of nothing but climbing in the penultimate chapter of the game. There's way too much start and stop with this game unlike Uncharted where the downtime was actually a refreshing break from the action. Here it just becomes expected and mind numbing. We don't need more downtime following downtime sections.

One thing that really stood out to me was how they placed the boat shooting sequence at the start of the game. It felt out of place and wasn't memorable. I would've liked to see it placed in it's proper chapter(13) right after we see that badass impending storm, but instead we're treated to more climbing

Also, they tried to staple on elements from TLoU onto the Uncharted DNA and it just doesn't work well in this universe. Ellie is a much better companion than Sam and the setting gives the game way more tension so the quiet moments never feel dull.

Uncharted is at it's best as lighthearted pulp with Nate wisecracking throughout, not this dreary crap. I'm sorry, but the characters are a little too one note and underutilized for me to give a damn.(like who actually feared for Nate's marriage, Druckmann wasn't going to break them up in the final game) Why is there so much climbing instead of more time with the villains or Sully or Chloe or anyone but Sam?

The only character other than a Nate with a real presence is Sam who just sucks. That's why my favorite chapters(aside from 11) were when Elena gets back and the game starts allowing some fun. Not 19 though. That chapter had some terrible design. Way too many exploding mummies.

A note on the boat section at the start of the game: Neil said in an interview that they debated whether to open the game that way. Apparently the original draft opened with the flashback at the orphanage.

Honestly, I think they should've opened with the orphanage as they had originally planned. I understand the idea is to assure the audience there is action in the game, but that boat sequence sticks out like a vestigial organ.

It doesn't make me wonder, "How did they end up in that situation," since they've been in similar situations countless times before. Riding a boat away from some pirates doesn't have the same intrigue that a train derailment in the Himalayas does. One is an over-the-top situation (UC2's train derailment) while the other is standard stuff for adventure movies (a boat chase).

The boat chase could be cut out entirely (or at least relocated to Ch. 12 going on Ch. 13) and the game would be better for it.

 

[RespectThySole]

If that is indeed the case, it would certainly make me more sympathetic to the character.

Basically affluenza crossed w/ being a criminal scion. Definitely potentially interesting. Would have been nice to have more time with Rafe to get a better handle on him. Without that, I'm still left w/ an overriding sense of a bland and mostly one-dimensional character.

I suppose that's my core criticism of the game -- I was happy w/ the ratio of shooting and other stuff. In U2 I got tired of enemy waves right quick. But I would have been a lot happier if the balance of the other stuff in U4 was tipped much more heavily to character interaction and cutscenes, and less to traversal. The game felt rooted in characterization and character interaction, but there wasn't actually that much of it given the length (and much of what there was, particularly during traversal, seemed like filler). And with everything so well rendered and acted, I find myself less inclined to paint in the missing bits than w/ a less cinematic and less linear presentation.

Agreed with the bolded.

Also, I don't agree that it was implied in the epilogue. Seems like wishful thinking especially with how Sam ends the game continuing to chase after Nate's past glory with Sully. They just didn't want her to get involved in 'dangerous' adventure like they did in the past. I doubt it has much do with her becoming Rafe. His circumstance is completely different and the decision was made long before she came into play anyway. Hell, the whole adventure problem is a retread from 3 to begin with. I think that poster is reading too much into it. It's more about not becoming Nate than Rafe.

A note on the boat section at the start of the game: Neil said in an interview that they debated whether to open the game that way. Apparently the original draft opened with the flashback at the orphanage.

Honestly, I think they should've opened with the orphanage as they had originally planned. I understand the idea is to assure the audience there is action in the game, but that boat sequence sticks out like a vestigial organ.

It doesn't make me wonder, "How did they end up in that situation," since they've been in similar situations countless times before. Riding a boat away from some pirates doesn't have the same intrigue that a train derailment in the Himalayas does. One is an over-the-top situation (UC2's train derailment) while the other is standard stuff for adventure movies (a boat chase).

The boat chase could be cut out entirely (or at least relocated to Ch. 12 going on Ch. 13) and the game would be better for it.

That definitely would've been a better intro. I'd have no problem with it being completely cut.

 

[ioriyagami]

I thought Uncharted 4 was better than any of the previous games, so...*shrug*

 

[Langdon Alger]

The story was too serious and there was too much of it. And there wasn't enough gunplay.

 

[Ascenion]

If that is indeed the case, it would certainly make me more sympathetic to the character.

Basically affluenza crossed w/ being a criminal scion. Definitely potentially interesting. Would have been nice to have more time with Rafe to get a better handle on him. Without that, I'm still left w/ an overriding sense of a bland and mostly one-dimensional character.

I suppose that's my core criticism of the game -- I was happy w/ the ratio of shooting and other stuff. In U2 I got tired of enemy waves right quick. But I would have been a lot happier if the balance of the other stuff in U4 was tipped much more heavily to character interaction and cutscenes, and less to traversal. The game felt rooted in characterization and character interaction, but there wasn't actually that much of it given the length (and much of what there was, particularly during traversal, seemed like filler). And with everything so well rendered and acted, I find myself less inclined to paint in the missing bits than w/ a less cinematic and less linear presentation.

That is a major issue. So much of Rafe is seemingly left up to interpretation. Which masks his actual strengths as a character. I love subtle story telling but ND went overboard. Rafe has a great villain inside him you just have to look, which shouldn't be the case.

Agreed with the bolded.

Also, I don't agree that it was implied in the epilogue. Seems like wishful thinking especially with how Sam ends the game continuing to chase after Nate's past glory with Sully. They just didn't want her to get involved in 'dangerous' adventure like they did in the past. I doubt it has much do with her becoming Rafe. His circumstance is completely different and the decision was made long before she came into play anyway. Hell, the whole adventure problem is a retread from 3 to begin with. I think that poster is reading too much into it. It's more about not becoming Nate than Rafe.

That's how I got to that conclusion. On a basic level Rafe is just Nate with money. Both were looking for their own legacies while still being overshadowed by the legacy they were born into. Both have an inability to truly let things go.

Spoiler

Nate in the epilogue looks to be really well off. Cassie's got the money at that point and seems to be very much like her father. It's a stretch but I still think Nate knowing Rafe could've take that lesson back with him too.

 

[Alienous]

I liked Rafe. He's a short-tempered, spoiled rich kid treasure hunter. He's the kind of self-obsessed person I could imagine having the desire and resources to mount an expedition, not for the sake of history, but for the credit of the discovery. He's really all I could have asked for as far as an Uncharted villain goes; he isn't just a brute, he has a valid perspective (being that Nathan Drake could have left this discovery alone), he has parallels with the protagonist, and is somewhat sympathetic in that he just isn't talented enough to pull off the thing he so desperately wants to define himself by.

Of all the new charaters I think he integrated into the story the most seamlessly, aside from the 15 years of not doing much of anything.

 

[Kaswa101]

I can understand the shift in tone not being for everyone.

Personally I found some of the character-driven moments in UC4 more memorable than any of the previous games' action set pieces

.

 

[RespectThySole]

^

Spoiler

Eh I don't think they're remotely near Rafe level of well off though. I mean they didn't get that much treasure.

That's an interesting way of putting it though. My head cannon still has UC3's version of Nate's beginnings as I refuse to acknowledge the crock in chapter 16.

The difference is that Nate isn't doing it for the glory (he just loves adventure), but Rafe is. Even if we accepted your viewpoint of them being two sides of the same coin, it doesn't really excuse how little screentime he and Nadine get. That's a mere footnote.
---
Game needed serious editing. It feels really padded out. Why is it so long anyway? None of the characters have a lot of screentime except Sam and there's way less combat percentage-wise in comparison to the previous games so it's length solely serves the purpose of adding more useless climbing and exploration. Doesn't make any sense as those elements aren't engaging enough to justify it.

 

[LoveCake]

I don't think it was the best in the series, just didn't feel or play as good as Uncharted 3 for me.

 

[gamerMan]

I don't think the game is bad, it's just that the formula that Naughty Dog is using is starting to get old after 5 games. When viewed In a vacuum, it's probably the best Uncharted game.

With the earlier games, the concept of making the narrative the central focus was fresh and new. It was easier to overlook the flaws and barely interactive gameplay.

In Uncharted4, the formula is played out. It's kind of like Rhythm-Action Games. After the 3rd Rock Band, nobody cared anymore. This genre that Naughty Dog created is on its deathbed.

 

[reKon]

I don't think it was the best in the series, just didn't feel or play as good as Uncharted 3 for me.

Lol? On what planet...?

 

[mr_chun]

I must be some sort of weirdo, because Drake's Fortune and A Thief's End are my two favorite entries in the series.

I've said before in threads here that Drake's Fortune spoke to me because of the mostly singular setting -- it wasn't concerned with being overly grandiose and diverse. Instead, it offered us the opportunity to become just as intimate with the island as any character. I loved that about the game, and remember it fondly.

A Thief's End was definitely on the other end of that scale, but had enough throwbacks to the original game that it won my heart. I also enjoyed the pacing, getting to take my time and explore. I spent more time than most on my first playthough -- over 17 hours.

 

[BiggNife]

This thread is making me lose my faith in the gaming community.

You're losing faith in the gaming community because some people don't like an Uncharted game?

Holy shit, grow up. Of all the things to be upset over.

 

[Toni]

I don't think it was the best in the series, just didn't feel or play as good as Uncharted 3 for me.

I'm sorry, but it absolutely plays better than UC3.

 

[Emu-Fred]

Uncharted 4 is one of those games that I love but would NOT play a second time.

While the main story wasn't intriguing, what kept me going was the lore/story of how the pirates had to do crazy shit just to get to libertalia and then the mutiny later on.

That's where the story was at.

 

[rhino4evr]

Just finished.

I find it funny, because it seems like they tried to appease the critics of the uncharted series, instead of making a game for the people that fell in love with uncharted in the first place.

There are no real "soilder waves" like in the past, and the game actually encourages you to use rather weak stealth mechanics to better your odds. The problem is that the combat is way more fun then stealth and traversal gameplay.

The game isn't set piece after set piece like Uncharted 3 was. Instead you'll find yourself climbing , and climbing, and climbing. These sections go on for way too long without gunplay.

My biggest issue? No super natural element. Now this has often been a criticism of the past games (and I for the life of me can't figure out why). this is supposed to be "Indiana Jones" which features plenty of "magic" and "fantasy". It's not real life. The lack of "ghost pirates" actually adds to the lack of enemy types. The end level is just traversal with an almost QTE type final boss. Despite the game being the longest in the series, my first thought was "that's it"?

It wasn't , but the epilogue was literally a repeat chapter with a slight twist.


I enjoyed the game, but I also think it has the least replayable story mode in the series history. If they make another one. Please bring back the shootouts, and the action set pieces.

 

[ComputerBlue]

Very good game, least favorite in the series. Horrible pacing, lack of memorable set pieces, mediocre soundtrack, written around Sam instead of Nate, no supernatural elements. Plus other things, it just wasn't as good and it worries me with TLoU2.

 

[AEREC]

Game was alright, I enjoyed the story and characters but the game was way longer than it should have been and it got pretty boring at times. I keep seeing it being referred to as a walking simulator and I kinda agree thats a pretty apt description. The combat scenarios were so few and far between and generic, I actually got annoyed when I had to go through them.

I have no desire to replay this game. Good ending though.

For me:

UC2 > UC1 > UC4 >>>>>> UC3

 

[Arkeband]

Just finished.

I find it funny, because it seems like they tried to appease the critics of the uncharted series, instead of making a game for the people that fell in love with uncharted in the first place.

There are no real "soilder waves" like in the past, and the game actually encourages you to use rather weak stealth mechanics to better your odds. The problem is that the combat is way more fun then stealth and traversal gameplay.

The game isn't set piece after set piece like Uncharted 3 was. Instead you'll find yourself climbing , and climbing, and climbing. These sections go on for way too long without gunplay.

My biggest issue? No super natural element. Now this has often been a criticism of the past games (and I for the life of me can't figure out why). this is supposed to be "Indiana Jones" which features plenty of "magic" and "fantasy". It's not real life. The lack of "ghost pirates" actually adds to the lack of enemy types. The end level is just traversal with an almost QTE type final boss. Despite the game being the longest in the series, my first thought was "that's it"?

It wasn't , but the epilogue was literally a repeat chapter with a slight twist.


I enjoyed the game, but I also think it has the least replayable story mode in the series history. If they make another one. Please bring back the shootouts, and the action set pieces.

Ghost pirates would have been so lame. Why would you ever want that?

 

[Jobbs]

I found the game absolutely dreadfully insufferably dull. An absolute slog. I didn't care for the story or characters and the gameplay was tedium and boredom. I give it a 5/10 and only that high on the strength of its production . As a game it's terrible.

 

[Bishop89]

I found the game absolutely dreadfully insufferably dull. An absolute slog. I didn't care for the story or characters and the gameplay was tedium and boredom. I give it a 5/10 and only that high on the strength of its production . As a game it's terrible.

Have you played the previous games?

 

[Messofanego]

Have you played the previous games?

That shouldn't matter on his opinion of the characters. You'll find this thread is unanimous on how uninteresting the new characters are.

 

[tr1p1ex]

It's disappointing because it just doesn't advance the game part of gaming. The only improvements that stick out to me are the graphics, sound and voice acting.

It's also way too long. They could cut out 4 hours and the only thing you'd miss was repeating what you've already done 10x over.

 

[YankeeDonB]

That is a major issue. So much of Rafe is seemingly left up to interpretation. Which masks his actual strengths as a character. I love subtle story telling but ND went overboard. Rafe has a great villain inside him you just have to look, which shouldn't be the case.

Yeah, I definitely take your point. If Rafe were a character in a 16 bit RPG or something I think I'd have been more inclined to spend the energy looking. Maybe that's unfair, but I think it's the burden of verisimilitudinous visuals and acting in games.

 

[system11]

OP was a little disappointed for the exact reasons I was more impressed with this latest outing - better story development and more exploration.

 

[Omnistalgic]

Well Rafe has a massive inferiority complex. You got his motivations down but you missed the point a bit. His interaction with Sully during the auction explains it all. Yeah he's got money but it isn't his money. He wants to get the fast car and the coke but he wants it on his own. So by I'm assuming using his families connections he looks for a massive treasure to make a name for himself so bam Avery.

Spoiler

The main villain issue is while he fails at finding Avery, Nate finds 2 lost cities and El Dorado, but walks away with nothing. Rafe sees that as a waste and begins to feel inferior to Nate thinking he'd have done it better. Lo behold Nate pops back into the Avery search and immediately does his Nate magic and finds it under Rafe's nose further disenfranchising Rafe in his own mind.

Rafe is a great villain because of his bitter resent meant towards himself exhibited through his unwarranted hate for others. Rafe is a damn brilliant character if you can relate. He's truly the anti-thesis to Nate the very opposite of started from the bottom now we here.

well said...I think UC4 had hands down the best villain, and I also don't get what was wrong with Nadine? She seemed very strong, and very sensible about everything at the end, after the way Rafe treated her, I saw that coming and it was very justified. All of them (Sam, Nate, Rafe) were somewhat obsessed.

 

[Omnistalgic]

That shouldn't matter on his opinion of the characters. You'll find this thread is unanimous on how uninteresting the new characters are.

Ummm what? This thread is obviously attracting like minded individuals lol. Where is this unanimous "uninteresting" characters coming from?

Let's ignore the awards, critical reception, official threads, user reception and praise and just say everyone thinks the same way.

There's plenty of people including myself that feel this is the best uncharted. Also I think some users really should take their time with the game and not just try to beat in 2-3 sittings. this is definitely a game to wander around in.

 

[Omnistalgic]

^

Spoiler

Eh I don't think they're remotely near Rafe level of well off though. I mean they didn't get that much treasure.

That's an interesting way of putting it though. My head cannon still has UC3's version of Nate's beginnings as I refuse to acknowledge the crock in chapter 16.

The difference is that Nate isn't doing it for the glory (he just loves adventure), but Rafe is. Even if we accepted your viewpoint of them being two sides of the same coin, it doesn't really excuse how little screentime he and Nadine get. That's a mere footnote.
---
Game needed serious editing. It feels really padded out. Why is it so long anyway? None of the characters have a lot of screentime except Sam and there's way less combat percentage-wise in comparison to the previous games so it's length solely serves the purpose of adding more useless climbing and exploration. Doesn't make any sense as those elements aren't engaging enough to justify it.

Couldn't disagree more...I found the constant shooting and generally being in a bunch of on rail moments in UC3 off putting. The climbing in UC4 is actually fun and I love looking at the gorgeous visuals. Just about every encounter is also very fun and the ramp up to the end is the best in the series. The vertical combat is amazing.

 

[Bishop89]

That shouldn't matter on his opinion of the characters. You'll find this thread is unanimous on how uninteresting the new characters are.

I think it does. Not having played the first 3, how could you have any kind of connection and empathy to the main cast?

 

[thebadmoodvivi]

It's undeniably an impeccably crafted and paced game and worthy of its consensus distinction of being the best looking game ever made. I suppose I can sympathise with those who came in with expectations based more on the bombast of previous entries (largely absent here) than the predictably low key character centred drama that Druckmann was always likely to bring following TLOU