Don't forget what would happen if you asked "What do you do except for harvest materials and survive in NMS?"
"Shut up, you just don't get it, man. Have you even seen Cosmos?"
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I don't find it hard to avoid bad games or getting screwed over by the game industry
- Thread starter SeeNoWeevil
- Start date
Don't forget what would happen if you asked "What do you do except for harvest materials and survive in NMS?"
"Shut up, you just don't get it, man. Have you even seen Cosmos?"
OP bought Street Fighter V, asked short time after what is there to enjoy and made a thread complaining about the server downtimes.
You think so?
And here are multiple examples of how there is no such choir.
Each poster here is an example of why confirmation bias is a thing and how hype culture has became entrenched in gaming circles.
If you pre order a game, basically you're having to tell yourself it's worth it. It becomes almost impossible to then find a rational argument why upon release that decision was flawed. You either double down and defend the game to oblibion, or you cry foul. NMS is a prime example. The most rational discussions I've seen is from people who held off the hype train.
The last post quoted is particularly problematic. They're telling themselves (and others!) that they'll be satisfied with their pre orders. Sure, that sounds fine but leaves no room for self reflection after the fact. What if you aren't satisfied with a game you pre-ordered? Can you even bring yourself to admit you made a mistake? Telling yourself that you only make good decisions limits your ability to actually judge a game critically and to be honest, telling yourself you've enjoyed something is different to actually enjoying it.
Sure, it is possible to have a good strike rate with pre orders, but frankly, given the availability of games digitally nowadays? The risks are worse than the rewards now.
Jeronimo Jones
Member
I agree.
I also find it hard to direct very much anger at someone else for a $60 (or less) purchase that I chose to make.
Something not working is not the same as not liking it, to me. I'm open to different experiences and if I don't like a game, I should choose better next time.
I also find it hard to direct very much anger at someone else for a $60 (or less) purchase that I chose to make.
Something not working is not the same as not liking it, to me. I'm open to different experiences and if I don't like a game, I should choose better next time.
Steve Youngblood
Member
There's nothing inherently wrong with preordering. It is problematic however if you're not prepared to accept that you're taking a bit of a gamble. For one, the game may not be very good. Secondly, the price may come down very quickly post launch. But there are reasons why people may want to be there at launch. If it's a developer you really like, you may just want to show your support. And while consumers shouldn't feel obligated to do that, you're also not a rube if you want to. Another reason is just that some games are an event for people. There's nothing wrong with wanting to be there right at launch.
But yeah, if the idea of getting burned by a $60 purchase not being very good is unacceptable to you, then don't preorder.
But yeah, if the idea of getting burned by a $60 purchase not being very good is unacceptable to you, then don't preorder.
I think the larger problem there is tribalism in the online game community. Everyone picks their masters and how dare you say anything bad about My Favorite Game-Sama. You're spot-on that this mindset bleeds into preorder culture, wherein people will either defend something to their grave or turn a vicious 180 in order to justify their embarrassment at being wrong about a game into something the game makers did to hurt them.
privitsan02
Member
This is very true and I wish gamers would use their power as a consumer more often than not. There is literally no point to preorder a game unless you're getting a hefty discount from it or you have the spare cash to burn on the collectibles. We have so many sources of information compared to even ten years ago now, especially with YouTube and twitch, that it's really difficult to not know if you'll like a game or not before launch and if you even need to preorder. Plus, the games that are being very vague, it's not hard to wait a week after launch to see a consensus.
The No Man's Sky threads have been pretty embarrassing, just like Destiny and I expect the same with FF15. Having some self control can go a long way and stop these companies try forcing preorder bonuses down our throats that barely matter or straight up lying through hype.
Best wishes.
The No Man's Sky threads have been pretty embarrassing, just like Destiny and I expect the same with FF15. Having some self control can go a long way and stop these companies try forcing preorder bonuses down our throats that barely matter or straight up lying through hype.
Best wishes.
You don't find it hard to avoid but you do so anyway.
I admit, I consider laughing.
down 2 orth
Member
I don't get it, did he lose his gamer cred or something?
Cuz if you're going to dig dirt up on a gaffer, which is sleazy in its own right, that's not a very damning charge.
Yup, The hype culture around here is as bad as anywhere as is the negativity against certain games when they either fail to live up to some expectations. NMS is the latest victim of it but it happens constantly here.
I also agree with you about preordering, I will preorder anything I want especially if I can get it cheaper by doing that.
Steve Youngblood
Member
Could you possibly put a modicum of effort into your posts here instead of just taking pithy potshots? What is even your point here? That the OP is a hypocrite and thus his point is invalid?
I pretty much buy games late when they are heavily discounted. I still haven't played some of the most tip rare games like Uncharted 4 and this is coming from a Uncharted fan. I just have the patience to wait. It helps I have a backlog of awesome games to play. The only game I bought day 1 was Street Fighter V and even though that had a cluster fuck launch I wanted it day 1 to be competitive and have no regrets.
Tal Shiar Agent
Member
I preorder and I'll keep preordering forever. I know what I like. Very rarely am I burned. Last time was Killzone Shadowfall. I expected better from Guerrilla and it was a launch title. Didn't even finish the second mission.
Of all of the games I've bought in the last few years, a section of GAF has a hate-on for or were critically panned, but I still enjoy because either people overreach and make mountains out of molehills or I know what I want and expect.
No Man's Sky
Star Wars Battlefront
Godzilla
Off the top of my head.
Of all of the games I've bought in the last few years, a section of GAF has a hate-on for or were critically panned, but I still enjoy because either people overreach and make mountains out of molehills or I know what I want and expect.
No Man's Sky
Star Wars Battlefront
Godzilla
Off the top of my head.
chillybright
Banned
Not really. The hype meter in Gaf sometimes is insurmountably higher than anywhere else.
Wandering Robot
Member
It helps to
1. Know what kind of games you like,
2. Do due research (to your liking--there's a reason people go on blackout),
3. Keep tabs on your money, and
4. Recognize that hype is a marketing tool.
At least for me. I've only preordered a few games in my time. ¯_(ツ
_/¯
1. Know what kind of games you like,
2. Do due research (to your liking--there's a reason people go on blackout),
3. Keep tabs on your money, and
4. Recognize that hype is a marketing tool.
At least for me. I've only preordered a few games in my time. ¯_(ツ
_/¯The fact that people on GAF pre-order games (ANY games) completely invalidates this statement.
NMS, Arkham Knight, SFV and that's just off the top of my head
A different title would have done wonders.
"I don't find it hard to avoid". Apparently it was hard to avoid for him.
And in general, if you are misslead by missleading hype, those responsible for the hype are to blame.
Not the customer.
I think anyone that buys plenty of computer games and yet falls for the hype time and again is at that point demonstrating an unwarranted and incredibly high level of optimism considering games can be up to £60 a go and even more with special editions.
Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.
I understand that some countries like the U.S. incentivise pre-orders with deep discounts, making it fairly risk-free to pre-order, play and trade though. Here it's pointless unless you want the cheap trinkets they sometimes offer with it.
PanicFreak
Member
There is nothing wrong with preordering games.
Steve Youngblood
Member
I don't think that misleading PR should get a free pass. But at some point, I do think that if the consumer finds themselves repeatedly being burned then some of the responsibility falls on them to recognize that they are adults capable of learning from mistakes. These aren't black and white situations where you either have to completely take promotional materials at face value or you have to be 100% cynical and assume everyone is lying. A reasonable person would simply surmise that company faces are there to promote their game. Sometimes they may be deliberately lying, and that's bad. Other times they're being completely sincere and the final product simply falls short of their vision. Either way, things don't always pan out. As adults, we should be smart enough to realize that.
Again, I'm not trying to be some cynical internet tough guy here. People should absolutely be called out for misleading customers. However, I do think that this is a situation where if you find yourself being angered about being mislead again and again then you are partially culpable as well.
Yes, this.
Never preorder, never buy day 1 - it's not worth it, unless it's something you know for certain you will like (like the latest iteration of a franchise that doesn't ever change much).
Try to wait until sales or game of the year editions.
Tal Shiar Agent
Member
...DARKNESS EVERYONE!!!
Staying in the dark for games (even movies) for me is half the excitement - the other being the actual playing/viewing of it...from there I can judge for myself and not be surprised of the promise/lack of - 'from the hype train' to hands on comparison.
Hey, I get that most people don't have deep pockets to NOT care less about buying a bomb, they need reviews and LP's - I'm one of them, but I choose not to participate because I want to experience it for the first time - just like they (the reviewers) did. I may have "wasted money" doing so, but I have a job, and for myself, this hobby is worth me approaching it from the perspective of a pioneer. I can draw my own conclusions thank you.
Staying in the dark for games (even movies) for me is half the excitement - the other being the actual playing/viewing of it...from there I can judge for myself and not be surprised of the promise/lack of - 'from the hype train' to hands on comparison.
Hey, I get that most people don't have deep pockets to NOT care less about buying a bomb, they need reviews and LP's - I'm one of them, but I choose not to participate because I want to experience it for the first time - just like they (the reviewers) did. I may have "wasted money" doing so, but I have a job, and for myself, this hobby is worth me approaching it from the perspective of a pioneer. I can draw my own conclusions thank you.
Yes. I'm intensely conservative in my buying habits and benefited from my brother's largess as a child. I played and enjoyed a lot of games I wouldn't have played otherwise. I'm trying to be more liberal with my purchases as I can't depend on that anymore, but my buying habits make it hard to break into, say, indie gaming where my knowledge base is incredibly low.
VlaudTheImpaler
tl;dr
Exactly this.
Also, You don't see anyone making threads on the opposite of this thread like, I think more people should be outraged about NMS or something. I haven't seen any threads made to be a jab at the people who are having fun playing the game like this one seems to be a jab at the people who are fed up with the way the industry has been handling things recently.
I personally am just in this for the consumer. I can't help it if some fanboys hop on the train because that is inevitable. I can guarantee that there are just as much or even more fanboys defending the game/devs as well. It's inevitable. The smartest thing to do in situations like this is to try to be as unbiased as possible and use your wisdom to find the root of the problem and those who are genuine.
I don't think it hurts you that I and a whole lot of others are wanting to set the bar higher for the industry in order to create a better one in the end for everybody and are actively pursuing that.
SeeNoWeevil
Member
There was absolutely no way of knowing Capcom were going to start taking the servers down for increasingly lengthy maintenance. But yeah, I did feel a little burnt with SFV. I never said I can avoid 100% of the shittyness. For the most part though, it's not rocket science to dodge most of it.
Rotch Crot
Banned
I disagree. I feel like GAF is gullible as hell. I cold tell No Man's Sky was a turd from a mile away, yet half of GAF fell for it anyway. And it''s definitely not the first time I've seen it happen.
Bolivar687
Banned
The GAF hype for The Division was unlike anything I've seen anywhere else on the internet.
People were getting bullied into pre-ordering the collectors edition.
100 % of the people can not avoid being burned 100 % of the time. Just like you. Not rocket science.
If it is one of the same customer falling for one and the same lies by one and the same company? I coul see that.
But distrusting an entire industry all the time and never falling for it?
Won't happen. At one point someone missplaces trust.
brandonh83
Banned
I feel like I usually know what I'm getting. I wasn't too hyped for No Man's Sky and didn't really read into all the "promises" and what not, and enjoyed the game. It isn't great, but gave me some good adventure/exploration feels. It's a game I'll revisit here and there.
I only pre-order if I'm super confident or am buying absolutely no matter what.
I only pre-order if I'm super confident or am buying absolutely no matter what.
Pewpewlazors99
Member
Don't pre-order: The thread
GAF has gotten worse on this front over the years. Despite what others want to say.
By far not the worst forum on the internet but seeing this thread only a few weeks after NMS comes off really tone deaf. That and the countless people defending their pre-order habits.
If by "getting into" you mean a probability much greater then 0 that reality will not match expectations, then yes.
Consumer
Member
Threads like these won't change peoples' minds or make them smarter consumers for having read your insight. I'll still wait many months to buy games cheap, and others will still preorder games and mindlessly jump on the hypetrain.
But that's OK; it's necessary for the gaming economy. We need these people to be our 'beta testers' and buy games when they're initially broken or lacking in content, so that days/weeks/months later we can buy a better version of the game for a fraction of the price (or skip it entirely if it's that bad).
So yeah, I don't mind having Guinea pigs to get duped and you shouldn't either. And besides, like others have said, most of NeoGAF are smarter than that.
But that's OK; it's necessary for the gaming economy. We need these people to be our 'beta testers' and buy games when they're initially broken or lacking in content, so that days/weeks/months later we can buy a better version of the game for a fraction of the price (or skip it entirely if it's that bad).
So yeah, I don't mind having Guinea pigs to get duped and you shouldn't either. And besides, like others have said, most of NeoGAF are smarter than that.
You would think that, but yeah, NMS.
Also there was a thread about Overwatch summer loot boxes that had me shaking my head. It was if people were powerless to resist buying limited-time cosmetic items for a game, and Blizzard was some sort of super villain for putting them in.
I simply can't relate.
OP: I'm with you.
More_Badass
Member
I've been writing about games for three years now, both on a blog and for various sites. You dont have to play everything you got a review copy for. To be fair. Why did you come to hate it?
How is it tone deaf? Is it really so much to say that maybe, just maybe, people should take a little accountability for allowing themselves to get so excited over things they know very little about? That they should take a step back sometimes before they jump in screaming "Game of the forever, Day 0"? And why exactly shouldn't the people who have gone out their way to make sure that they are not burned by the game they pre-order defend themselves? If you have a reasonable idea of what you're getting in to, and want to enjoy the game when it comes out, pre-ordering is perfectly fine.
That implies that I, you, or whoever, shares the exact same expectations of every single game, which is obviously not true. It's not as black and white as you'd like to make it out to be.
AwesomeMeat
PossumMeat
I mean yeah... NMS was a bust but that Star Citizen though. CHOOOO CHOOOOO.
I remember buying games for the NES based on the art on the boxes that weren't even screen shots. I think we've come a long way since then. Mostly people just want a place to bitch about stuff and that place is the internet.
I remember buying games for the NES based on the art on the boxes that weren't even screen shots. I think we've come a long way since then. Mostly people just want a place to bitch about stuff and that place is the internet.
Given that the opening post kind of gives off a "wake up sheeple" vibe I think it's a fair call-out. Doesn't mean OPs point isn't valid or it's not worth discussing, but maybe it could have been presented differently?
Steve Youngblood
Member
I honestly think it's useful to try to delineate between different consumer mindsets. I think it's erroneous to assume that consumers can always avoid getting hyped up about something. It's going to happen at times where you have good reason to expect a game to be good and wind up disappointed. If during the development cycle misleading promotional materials were utilized to oversell what the game was going to be, then I do think there's grounds for grievance. But here, we're talking about relatively isolated incidences.
In the opening sentence of the OP, I sort of gathered that this is in response to what I sort of regard is the perpetual outrage. Joe Consumer has a lot of bones to pick with the current state of the industry and isn't afraid to let everyone know how much he hates modern practices. There's this sort of defeatist attitude I see all the time from people that lament how things are now and yearn for the golden era of yesteryear. And I understand why this attitude is getting called out.
When you see people act as though Big Publisher has us over a barrel because they know we need to play the hottest new release, it takes all agency away from us as consumers who have all the power in the world to simply not buy stuff. Now that doesn't mean that we have to be hard on ourselves when we earnestly buy into the hype occasionally. However, if you're frequently buying into the hype and frequently being disappointed as a result, it sort of falls on you to stop getting on the hype train every time something shiny and new is dangled in front of you.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
Yeah, no way in hell that is true.
If you know first hand that a game sucks that means you bought it and were duped. The fact that people here are the first ones to complain about it means they were the first ones to get swindled.
Really? My impression is that the "fake trailers --> hype --> preorder" cycle is super strong here on GAF.
You can never be certain a game won't burn you because you can never be 100% certain making a decision with incomplete knowledge. Which you are doing anytime you pre-order. Made worse in the age of such a broken gaming media feedback loop that time and again has done a poor job educating readers and holding companies accountable.
You are always taking a risk on pre-orders. In an age of instant digital downloads, day one discounts and large supply there are very few reasons to pre-order. Hell, I would even argue there are not very good reasons to buy a game in the first month of its release given the growing propensity for bugs and performance issues that are more and more prevalent.
Even agreed upon games of the generation like The Witcher 3 ended up being damn near unplayable on launch for a not insignificant number of people and even for those that could, updates greatly improved the base game that would of made it a better experience for anyone with the patience to wait. Yet you have posters in this thread exhausting blind allegiance to whatever they do next and ready to drop $60 down for a pre-order. Only weeks after the NMS debacle.
Hardcore gamers really are almost addict like in their approach to getting their next fix.
PeakPointMatrix
Member
I counter this with the majority of comments shitting on the game coming from people who didn't actually play it or were hoping for it to become a target of tar-and-feathering for whatever reason.
It has well earned reasons for being dressed down, but the over abundance of "what a disaster" "what a shit game" "what a mess" eclipsing comments from actual players is undeniable.
You should know if a game is for you before you buy it. It really isn't hard nowadays. Any game i was let down by were games I took a chance on knowing damn well it may not be for me.
but yet countless times, you see "THEY LIED TO US ALL" posts about things that should have been known already (with some exceptions of course).
NMS is unfortunate for sure tho. I never saw the appeal personally but holy shit.... but now perhaps people will learn to not be suckered by super ambition until it is proven to be legit.
but yet countless times, you see "THEY LIED TO US ALL" posts about things that should have been known already (with some exceptions of course).
NMS is unfortunate for sure tho. I never saw the appeal personally but holy shit.... but now perhaps people will learn to not be suckered by super ambition until it is proven to be legit.
Incendiary
Banned
Since you called out my post specifically as problematic, I feel I need to respond here.
First, I preordered No Man's Sky. I had not been hyped for the game, I wasn't particularly invested in it, but I did feel that it was a game that actually lived up to it's standards it would be best played on Day One to be a part of the community in discovery (much like Souls games are Day One purchases for the same reason). So with the information I had, putting down a preorder and being able to play it on the first day seemed like a reasonable idea. Knowing what I know now, would I have pre-ordered it? Probably not. But I did get a good amount of playtime out of it, I streamed it on twitch for my friends and had fun talking about it with them as I was playing it. Is it a top 10 game for me this year? Nah. Do I think it was a bad choice to preorder it? Yeah, probably. Do I regret my decision? Nah, it is what it is.
Second, you seem to be generalizing anybody who preorders anything into this giant massive blob of people who suddenly throw all rational thought out the window because they knew they wanted something in advance. I'll preorder an album from a band I know I love or a book from an author that I know I enjoy reading. Is sometimes the album shitty and not as good as other albums? Yup. Is the book sometimes not as good as previous books? Definitely. Does me pre-ordering them because I'm familiar with their work mean I am immediately going to defend my purchase to the death just because I pre-ordered it? Fuck no.
Do you know how many people pre-ordered Star Wars tickets last year just because they wanted to see it opening weekend? Do you think every single one of these people defended the movie 100% completely and didn't look at it critically due to some pre-order influenced Stockholm Syndrome? Doubtful.
There's this view that pre-ordering is some sort of video game exclusive phenomenon and gamers are some sort of addict waiting for their next pre-order fix. It's not. How many iPhone 7s are on pre-order right now do you think? Yeah, the "pre-order bonus" is kind of a video game exclusive thing but you weren't talking about that, you were talking about the games themselves. And I never pre-order to get a specific skin or level or stupid shit like that - I only pre-order if I want the game itself.
I'm capable of learning from mistakes, too, since you implied I think I only make good decisions. I pre-ordered Brink way back when and man was that a mistake. So I didn't pre-order Overwatch because I wanted to make sure a multiplayer-only game had decent console community support and wouldn't die out after two days. See how I thought critically? See how I don't defend Brink as some sort of shining bastion of gaming?
I am perfectly capable of choosing what I want to pre-order because I'm an adult with disposable income and know what I'll enjoy. The only time I regret pre-ordering something is if I never use it.