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[HF2014]

I don't know if I really liked PS3 and XB360 that much, or what. However if I could play those games, especially from digital library, on the new consoles I would really enjoy that. I know with different chip sets, processors, etc that prevented this from being practical.

Playing games from last 10 years on new system would have been stellar.

Edit - Added comment: If MS, with Windows 10 and new DEV kits, can get Apple iOS and Android Apps to convert easily to Windows OS, and they can deploy these to phones, PCs, and XB1, why can't they make it available to developers to easily convert their 360 games? Especially Live Arcade?

Bye backward compatibility, welcome remaster era.

And people are just too dumb to realize that. Im dumb myself, bought back Dark Souls 2 remaster, Resident Evil Remaster.

But i swear to god i wont buy anymore remaster games. Its over for me. Hey i play them before,i got good memories about em, lets innovate for god sake. But it seem that this current gen is totally lacking that. PS Now is an insult.The PS4 is powerful enough to run all old games, they just make you believe it cant. In fact, Playstation better innovate this year with E3 by showing great exclusive, cause i got a feeling it will show up on craiglist or whatever selling site if it doesnt. Thanks god there is the WiiU for some good exclusive and got backward compatibility ( you have to repay still... ), because so far, one year owning my PS4, it isnt used as my PS3 was.

 

[Garnox]

See I traded in my 360 to the MS Store to knock off an extra $100 for the One I purchased.

Mind you it was the Arcade model with only a memory card. I spent $200 on it brand new, so for me to get half of that back on a system that for me was 6 years old was a smart business venture.

I do have some games on my old HDD I wish I could play for the One. I could technically still get those games on my Wii U or PS3 but I'd prefer not to double dip.

So if BC was to present itself in some capacity I'd be a happy camper.

 

[Incitemaybe]

I'd have a ps4 at this point if it was backwards compatible.

I def don't like having too much connected to the TV. I really really wish I could move my digital games over and still be able to play my Ico/SOTC disc on a ps4.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

Sony and MS had 3 options:

1) release a console with no BC to keep it as powerful and cheap as possible.

2) release a console with last gen components that would have added to development costs and price of the console. It's likely a minimum of $100 would have been added to the cost of each console.

3) release a BC console with last gen components but gimp current gen components to kept them at their current prices.

Option 1 is clearly the best choice.

 

[TheAdmiester]

But... Mercenaries runs terribly on Xbox 360? It freezes on the Chinese missions? How far into the game were you able to get?

Well, that is a major problem that I suppose makes it worse, but I thought the China areas were unstable on the original?

I can get through the whole game as long as I leave the Pyongyang Airport area very fast when I get a China mission. Supposedly it's a weird sound file that it tries to play sometimes that the game doesn't handle, it just hangs. But what I meant was that most of the time it runs at 60FPS, whereas on the original it seemed to chug along at times.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

Sony and MS had 3 options:

1) release a console with no BC to keep it as powerful and cheap as possible.

2) release a console with last gen components that would have added to development costs and price of the console. It's likely a minimum of $100 would have been added to the cost of each console.

3) release a BC console with last gen components but gimp current gen components to kept them at their current prices.

Option 1 is clearly the best choice.

4) release the software emulation solutions they already have working to allow access to all existing titles. Work with publishers who are already rereleasing titles to get around lack of backwards compatibility to sell an "upgrade" DLC to an existing digitally owned title rather than expect someone to rebuy the entire thing all over again. Maybe eat those fees themself if they're a platform holder and doing that.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

4) release the software emulation solutions they already have working to allow access to all existing titles. Work with publishers who are already rereleasing titles to get around lack of backwards compatibility to sell an "upgrade" DLC to an existing digitally owned title rather than expect someone to rebuy the entire thing all over again. Maybe eat those fees themself if they're a platform holder and doing that.

I assumed that most GAF posters had some understanding about the difficulty of emulation.

Unfortunately this statement shows that you clearly know nothing about emulation.

There is no possible way that a PS4 could emulate a PS3 through software emulation and have it perform at an acceptable level it at all. The architectures are too radically different. Same with 360 and X1.
That was never going to be possible..

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

I assumed that most GAF posters had some understanding about the difficulty of emulation.

Unfortunately this statement shows that you clearly know nothing about emulation.

There is no possible way that a PS4 could emulate a PS3 through software emulation and have it perform at an acceptable level it at all. The architectures are too radically different. Same with 360 and X1.
That was never going to be possible..

I didn't say for PS3; PS1 and PS2 titles are possible entirely through software.
It is very likely Xbox titles on the Xbox One are also possible entirely through software.
I own PS1, PS2 and Xbox titles through digital ownership that are unplayable on the PS4 or Xbox One.

In the case where a game like Sleeping Dogs or GTAV has literally just been ported to new platforms, digital owners on the previous platform should be entitled to pay a reduced fee "upgrade DLC" to get access to the 'new' version rather than rebuy again from scratch.

 

[Nosgotham]

Love my wiiu for this reason.
I would not have sold my ps4 if it had BC

Backwards comparability is a big deal. When you have 15 systems, space becomes very valuable

 

[Dragon Puncher]

I would LOVE if I could play my ps3 ps+ games on ps4, but other than that it isn't really that big of an issue. I'm probably never going to buy a ps3 game again.

 

[foxuzamaki]

Need to hug my Wii U, wii, and DS.

 

[jaundicejuice]

I would actually be using my PS4 a lot more if it had built in backwards compatibility and then I wouldn't have to have two power hungry devices plugged in at once. Love that about the Wii U and 3DS.

 

[pelicansurf]

I just want to be able to play PS1/PS2 games on the most recent PS console.

 

[Jingo]

You have backwards compatibility, its called remasters.

 

[foxuzamaki]

You have backwards compatibility, its called remasters.

Oh God, stop right there.

 

[Ge0force]

You have backwards compatibility, its called remasters.

This. Thanks to the success of remasters, no future console shall have BC.

The lack of BC is one of the reasons why I buy most multiplatform games for pc.

 

[Grady]

Could have been possible on ps4 but they got greedy with the idea of game streaming rereleases . And now psvue for 50 bucks which means certain tv apps which are cheaper such as sling will never be available for it. Its funny to see how xbox tries to say they are all about the games now and ps4 is slowly focusing on being an all in one entertainment center. That being said i still love my ps4 and still think i made the right choice.

 

[Cheeseman Battitude]

The lack of BC is one of the reasons why I buy most multiplatform games for pc.

I'm much more strict on this now because so many of the last gen games eventually came to PC. The only multiplatform games I've got for the PS4 so far are Ubisoft to avoid setting up a Uplay account. Just don't want ANOTHER thing to log into.

 

[Petrae]

I just want to be able to play PS1/PS2 games on the most recent PS console.

"...and, thanks to the power of streaming and PlayStation Now, you'll soon be able to do just that." - Sony PR

 

[jimi_dini]

I assumed that most GAF posters had some understanding about the difficulty of emulation.

Unfortunately this statement shows that you clearly know nothing about emulation.

It seems he knows that Sony is emulating PS1+PS2 on PS3 fully through software, otherwise those PS2 digital downloads wouldn't work on Non-BC-PS3s. For PS2 only some games work, but they do work.

Which brings us to his point.

Why the fuck are they not releasing those emulators on PS4? You can excuse PS2 emulation missing, because maybe they used JIT emulation and because of that it's super complicated blah and Sony a huge corporation can't get it working within 2 or 3 years whatever, but PS1 software emulation is even on PSP/Vita. There is no excuse. Except them announcing PS Now PS1+PS2 at some point in the future.

"...and, thanks to the power of streaming and PlayStation Now, you'll soon be able to do just that." - Sony PR

I guess they wait for the right moment. And probably use some bullshit on top. Like "See here, PS Now. PS1 + PS2 games available now!!! With trophies!!! Which would have been impossible when using emulation!!! Only possible via the power of the cloud!!! Rent them now!!!".

What's even worse is that I'm quite certain that this would work. Add trophies and the typical gamers will eat it up. "What? Checklists for those old games? Now that's a reason to play them"


What's really funny about all of this is that I bought quite a few games on PS2 simply because I assumed that Sony would pull another PS2 and implement perfect hardware compatibility. When I noticed that this wouldn't happen (I'm from Europe, Sony shat on us even at PS3 release day), I actually rebought those games on Gamecube (Prince Of Persia games, TimeSplitters, etc.). I wouldn't have expected Nintendo out of those 3 companies to pull that. And not only did they do that, they did it again for Wii U.

 

[FleetingFlowAir]

I like Backwards Compatibility because if I happen to get a system Day 1, I can fall back on playing older games until the new games release, which is good when there aren't many games out for me to be interested in buying. I did this for my Wii U and 3DS before and that's how I continued using them until the Holidays came.
It certainly baffles me how the PS4 still doesn't have PSOne games on the store or even Backwards Compatibility of its own kind. PSNow doesn't count, by the way.

 

[Omega]

I think I just "think" I miss backwards compatibility. On other consoles when I had it, I pretty much never used it.

Those other consoles actually had new games to play and not definitive* editions

 

[Petrae]

It certainly baffles me how the PS4 still doesn't have PSOne games on the store or even Backwards Compatibility of its own kind. PSNow doesn't count, by the way.

PlayStation Now is a better money-making vehicle for Sony than the formerly-standard "buy once and own it" model. Make it possible for consumers to play older games, recoup money spent on streaming games investment, and get consumers to keep paying to play the games instead of a one-time $5-$10 fee for consistent revenue.

I don't at all expect original PlayStation game emulation or game sales. Not anymore. Look to the cloud.

 

[onipex]

I don't miss it because I support the systems that have it just like I support the systems that don't charge me to play online. As soon as Nintendo catches up with modern gaming I'm either done with gaming or moving to PC gaming. Hell might move to PC gaming anyway and keep Nintnedo systems around for Kart, Smash, and Splatoon like fun.

 

[BigWeather]

This. Thanks to the success of remasters, no future console shall have BC.

The lack of BC is one of the reasons why I buy most multiplatform games for pc.

Yup, that + the Alpha turned me to 100% PC gaming. Regret having the PS4 now, though hopefully there'll be something exclusive to it that I end up enjoying.

 

[REDSLATE]

Well, that is a major problem that I suppose makes it worse, but I thought the China areas were unstable on the original?

I can get through the whole game as long as I leave the Pyongyang Airport area very fast when I get a China mission. Supposedly it's a weird sound file that it tries to play sometimes that the game doesn't handle, it just hangs. But what I meant was that most of the time it runs at 60FPS, whereas on the original it seemed to chug along at times.

Nope. The game is supposed to play flawlessly. There weren't any significant flaws originally.

If you have to go out of your way in an attempt to keep the game from freezing/crashing, then it most definitely doesn't run better than it would on original hardware. My understanding of 360 compatibility is that it basically upscales the picture and adds anti-aliasing. I don't think it offers any benefit to framerate (it likely diminishes it due to being emulated).

 

[Boombox On]

I didn't say for PS3; PS1 and PS2 titles are possible entirely through software.
It is very likely Xbox titles on the Xbox One are also possible entirely through software.
I own PS1, PS2 and Xbox titles through digital ownership that are unplayable on the PS4 or Xbox One.

Emulating the PS1 perhaps, but emulating the PS2 and Xbox' would be a daunting task for processors running at such low clock speeds.

 

[TheAdmiester]

Nope. The game is supposed to play flawlessly. There weren't any significant flaws originally.

If you have to go out of your way in an attempt to keep the game from freezing/crashing, then it most definitely doesn't run better than it would on original hardware. My understanding of 360 compatibility is that it basically upscales the picture and adds anti-aliasing. I don't think it offers any benefit to framerate (it likely diminishes it due to being emulated).

Framerate is definitely, definitely better. I think Mercenaries was a rare occasion of a game that ran uncapped, but due to the hardware of the original Xbox, ran around 30. On 360 it runs a bit better than that cap, so it runs at 60 a lot of the time.

 

[jroc74]

Lack of backward compatibility is one of the main reasons I haven't purchased any of the current-gen consoles. I simply don't have the space for it, and won't support that business model. I really don't buy into the "different processors and chipsets" excuse to play older games.

I can assume just for porting games.....from iOS to Android...yea mobile.... The ones that run a different overall chipsets than iDevices usually struggle early on to never running as good unless major changes are made..that chipsets do make a difference. Angry Birds when it first got ported over ran better on an older Droid 1 vs more recently released phones at that time. Main difference was the chipset in the Droid 1. I know other factors played a part....but chipsets were an issue.

I assumed that most GAF posters had some understanding about the difficulty of emulation.

Unfortunately this statement shows that you clearly know nothing about emulation.

There is no possible way that a PS4 could emulate a PS3 through software emulation and have it perform at an acceptable level it at all. The architectures are too radically different. Same with 360 and X1.
That was never going to be possible..

Look at Apple. They also eventually dumped PowerPC and went with Intel. Dont know the details but when they did that....the hackingtosh project was born. And it would not have been possible if they stuck with Power PC. Apple going with Intel allowed them to do some things with MS and their software that probably wouldn't have been possible or harder if they stuck with PowerPC. Boot Camp is one example. People shouldn't underestimate the differences in chipsets. For the hackingtosh project AMD vs Intel makes a difference.

It seems he knows that Sony is emulating PS1+PS2 on PS3 fully through software, otherwise those PS2 digital downloads wouldn't work on Non-BC-PS3s. For PS2 only some games work, but they do work.

Which brings us to his point.

Why the fuck are they not releasing those emulators on PS4? You can excuse PS2 emulation missing, because maybe they used JIT emulation and because of that it's super complicated blah and Sony a huge corporation can't get it working within 2 or 3 years whatever, but PS1 software emulation is even on PSP/Vita. There is no excuse. Except them announcing PS Now PS1+PS2 at some point in the future.

I will agree about that in regards to the PSP and Vita. I will agree about PS1 games not being emulated on the PS4. But PS2 and PS3 on PS4....I think that is wishful thinking for some folks, especially with them going to x86 and also not using Intel. Hardware and software emulation. I wonder do some realize when Sony went from hardware to software emulation on the PS3...the compatibility list got smaller....not larger....

Even looking at something like Dolphin....the compatibility list and the FAQ pretty much spells it out. Its not as easy as some think. AMD vs Intel makes a difference here too.

 

[REDSLATE]

Framerate is definitely, definitely better. I think Mercenaries was a rare occasion of a game that ran uncapped, but due to the hardware of the original Xbox, ran around 30. On 360 it runs a bit better than that cap, so it runs at 60 a lot of the time.

I don't know, man. From what I recall, it chugged pretty hard at some points. Emulation takes a lot of power. Considering the aforementioned freezing, the risk:reward just isn't there.

 

[Randolph Freelander]

If either of the PS4 or Xbox One had BC, I'd probably own one of them right now. Since they don't, I might never. Tough break, but I'm just one consumer, not a big deal in the grand scheme of things.

 

[EmptySpace]

It was $600! That's just a poor price point no matter how you put it.

From my personal experience bc has always been important, especially among parents. Back when my coworkers kids were little, if they were asking me about a game system, "does it play the old games", always came out. I was literally just at Best Buy picking up Splatoon, and a mother was looking to buy her son an Xbox One. Guess what she asked the clerk? Does it play the Xbox 360 games.

It's easy to assume that since these systems sell so well, it's proof that people don't care about bc. That's simply not true. The sad fact is you have no choice. If your kid really wants that new Playstation or Xbox, you're not going to tell them no because it doesn't play the old games.

so you want a cheap console that has bc.

we don't exactly live in fantasy la-la land or something.

yes, people don't give a shit about bc. even if all ps3s had ps1 bc, i rarely even see people from an enthusiast gaming website like neogaf talk about playing ps1 discs on their ps3s, let alone the world outside of gaf where there were 80+ million ps3s.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

I used to like the console bakcwards compatibility when they would try to make the games look and run better. I like PC backwards because they do this usually, and the games should get better and better depending on hardware and mods. Though like old console games, no amount of new paint will make me want to play through some of my old PC games that I have collected.

 

[Wensih]

I think one of the biggest failures of this generation is the lack of foresight/hindsight in not unifying their online marketplace. It's one thing to have physical media not be compatible with the new generation, but digital media being non-compatible creates a whole new problem on consoles.

I'm glad I was extremely wary of buying digital media from console's marketplaces because I would feel extremely screwed if I was unable to access this content in the future.

 

[NinjamicWZ]

Original PS3's three generations of compatibility was pretty damn amazing.

 

[koopas]

Original PS3's three generations of compatibility was pretty damn amazing.

I still have mine and use it all the time. Its bloody awesome.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

I have two PS3s with BC, one the original PS3, and the other the software bc PS3. I never crossed a game that didn't work on the software bc PS3 and recently used it to play Timesplitters 2 for a bit (man the aiming in that game is bad to go back to).

 

[ZombiePlatypus]

THANK YOU WiiU.

Complete goddamn shame the other systems dropped the ball here. Less incentive to get the PS4 sooner rather than later.

 

[SilverArrow20XX]

I sure miss it. I don't replay games all that often, but I regularly buy old games that I never got around to playing. I'm still buying PSX and PS2 games to this day. It didn't bother me much last generation since I used my 60GB backwards compatible PS3 for all that, but nowadays I'd rather play on my PS4. My PS3's hard drive is stuffed and the controllers are worn out, and I'd like more space under my TV. I had to remove my 360 and my Wii from my setup due to lack of room, so now I have to move consoles around if I want to play 360 or Gamecube games.

I'd certainly buy a dongle that lets me play PSX/2/3 games on my PS4, or lets my Xbone play Xbox and 360 games.

 

[ViolentP]

THANK YOU WiiU.

Complete goddamn shame the other systems dropped the ball here. Less incentive to get the PS4 sooner rather than later.

While BC is certainly an incentive, it is a secondary feature for me when purchasing a console. Sadly, it's also the reason my WiiU has been collecting dust for almost a year now.

 

[Gren]

I never really cared about BC until I bought a condo. Now that storage space is a premium for me, I value both BC & digital distribution as a means of keeping down the clutter.

 

[Golicz]

Oh God, stop right there.

Remember when the PS2 was backwards compatible & also had built-in options to slightly 'improve' PS1 games' graphics? Good times.

Now we're supposed to get excited for re-masters with better framerate & resolution... so for those who weren't born yesterday, it's a bitter pill to swallow.

 

[Halabane]

Need to hug my Wii U, wii, and DS.

Yup. Nintendo takes a lot of crap but one thing they have nailed is backwards compatibility.

The remaster of Zelda was worth it plus it was hard to buy. Some of the other remasters where in the same boat in not being able to get a copy of the game. I hope they continue with that.

 

[Chabbles]

Now that both systems have more standard pc like specs, i hope BC becomes a thing with every system going forward, if they stick with a similar architecture... But on the PS4/5 side, would adding BC conflict with sony wanting to push and grow psNow ?, and have that as their BC solution for the future.

 

[DarkConfidant]

Software BC is already working. Sony just hates us

Spoiler

but loves our money

.

 

[Wavebossa]

Remember when the PS2 was backwards compatible & also had built-in options to slightly 'improve' PS1 games' graphics? Good times.

Now we're supposed to get excited for re-masters with better framerate & resolution... so for those who weren't born yesterday, it's a bitter pill to swallow.

But that was pretty much the start of BC and it was never something that was guaranteed in the gaming industry previously.

However, as console architecture begins to resemble PC architecture more and more, internal emulation will become easier (and not require dedicated emulation hardware).

I'm just pointing out, this isn't something that has been around since the beginning of gaming or anything.



SNES had no BC to NES
N64 had no BC to SNES
GC had no BC to N64
Wii had BC to GC
Wii U has BC to Wii

PS2 had BC to PS1
PS3 had BC (at launch) to PS2
PS4 has no BC to PS3

Xbox360 has BC to Xbox
Xbox1 has no BC to Xbox360

 

[macewank]

4) release the software emulation solutions they already have working to allow access to all existing titles. Work with publishers who are already rereleasing titles to get around lack of backwards compatibility to sell an "upgrade" DLC to an existing digitally owned title rather than expect someone to rebuy the entire thing all over again. Maybe eat those fees themself if they're a platform holder and doing that.

5) Don't put BC in the console, monetize gamer's desire to play old titles by re-selling them for near-full retail price as a current-gen remaster. Profit heavily. Never do BC again.

 

[Corronchilejano]

However, as console architecture begins to resemble PC architecture more and more, internal emulation will become easier (and not require dedicated emulation hardware).

Even though that is technically correct, in reality neither Sony nor Microsoft is very interested in mantaining BC of any sort, since it's costly and doesn't drive much sales.

SNES had no BC to NES

The SNES was going to be compatible with the NES but it was scrapped due to high costs. In fact, that's why its processor speed is on the slow side.

 

[Chastten]

I like it on my 3DS, but barely use it on WiiU. Never used it on X360 either.

Come to think of it, I liked and used it quite a bit on GBA and DS as well. I think I smell a pattern here.

 

[Zubz]

how dare you beat me

*hugs 3DS*

It's going to be sad when the NX comes along. But yeah, that was one of those big wall-banger moves that had me unwilling to jump into the current gen of gaming. I mean, I know it emphasizes new product over old, so it makes good business sense, but it's too good of a feature to drop, in my opinion.

For every system I've ever owned that was backwards compatible (Barring the PS3), I immediately got an older game to play on it. Even if the launch library is abysmal, I always bought some older games along with a new console because it felt like there was a strong library from the start. I mean, I'm pretty sure I only had 2 PS2 games for the first year or so of the console's life, but the 10 or so PSX games I got with it stopped me from caring at all.