Truth! An amazing game. Just goes to show that gamers are impossible to satisfy
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If Chapter 51 was completed, would MGS5 be your GOTY?
- Thread starter Tabris
- Start date
Truth! An amazing game. Just goes to show that gamers are impossible to satisfy
semiconscious
Member
first post. seriously, afa the 'story' goes, it wasn't so much a matter of quantity as quality. even more go-nowhere melodrama wasn't gonna help anything. for me, by the time zero
was dead
...Pretty much.
It would've been nice, but wouldn't have changed the broader issues I had with the game. Namely: it was a bad story, clumsily executed.
But then there's the clumsy gameplay choices that hampered what was otherwise a smooth core system. And the bland repetition in rather uninteresting and feature-deficient (not to mention wholly unnecessary) open world environments. Just didn't have that "MGS" feel of quality to it.
Haha, okay, sure.
Little Monser
Banned
I really need to try and finish this game...
40 hours in and I'm still like on Mission 20 something !
I guess I'm just running out of patience with this game :/
40 hours in and I'm still like on Mission 20 something !
I guess I'm just running out of patience with this game :/
Lowlander2
Banned
I hated Chapter 1 as it was; adding more might have made the ending better, but it wouldn't have fixed the godawful pacing problems.
Moon_frogger
Member
It is my game of the year. Nobody complained when metal gear solid 2 had a ton of cut content. That's just game development. I didn't need to know what happened to eli, that could have been for another game or spinoff. Metal gear solid v completes the circle for all intents and purposes. It ends in outer heaven, which is about a fan service conclusion as one could ask for. People always bitch about metal gear games. Boo hoo, you didn't get the game you wanted. Oh, except 4 for which was complete fan pandering and guess what....people just bitched about that. I say screw the fans and their shallow expectations and entitlement. Nothing wrong with leaving unanswered questions.
Also, I'd like to address the 'repetitive' complaint. These people are either unimaginative or played a completely different game. 'All you do is sneak around, gather Intel and rescue people' hahaha, that's what you do in every metal gear game. This one just has more of it. Every single mission in the game except the hard mode remixed ones has some unique hook, setup and excecution. Not to mention you can tackle them in completely different ways and have the mission scripting dynamically react to whatever you do. It's a type of mission design that hasn't really been done before. It's like the next logical step up from deus ex, except with an even wider avenue of approach. Simultaneous scripted events playing over large sections of the world that affected and altered by your actions. This is why mgsv is game of the year. It moves the action genre forward by leaps and bounds. People call it repetitive are insane.
Also, I'd like to address the 'repetitive' complaint. These people are either unimaginative or played a completely different game. 'All you do is sneak around, gather Intel and rescue people' hahaha, that's what you do in every metal gear game. This one just has more of it. Every single mission in the game except the hard mode remixed ones has some unique hook, setup and excecution. Not to mention you can tackle them in completely different ways and have the mission scripting dynamically react to whatever you do. It's a type of mission design that hasn't really been done before. It's like the next logical step up from deus ex, except with an even wider avenue of approach. Simultaneous scripted events playing over large sections of the world that affected and altered by your actions. This is why mgsv is game of the year. It moves the action genre forward by leaps and bounds. People call it repetitive are insane.
Not everyone is happy when they receive a game that's unfinished, repetitive and lacks story. Amazing, right?
Evolved1
make sure the pudding isn't too soggy but that just ruins everything
For me MGSV isn't even in the discussion. That game fell apart after the first act, and didn't even have a third. It went nowhere, meant nothing, and just ended. Even the characters were nothing. Quiet was the only character with an arc. For this reason, she, in my view, was the actual silent protagonist and it was stupid. And too often cringey.
semiconscious
Member
yeah, i eventually hit that same 40 hr point, & proceeded to just non-stop story mission my way to the end. i mean, i'd really enjoyed myself, but by then i was sorta wearing down
...There is a lot that I've been satisfied with this year personally; MGSV just didn't do it for me, despite being one of my most anticipated titles.
Mr Waluigi
Banned
ryanofcall
Member
No chapter 2 was the problem, not the solution.
SolidusDave
Member
That GAF backlash.
I can list things I would like to be different in that game but it's definitely my GOTY, Mission 51 or not.
No clue if this is another vocal minority thing but it would be so awesome if it wins GAF GOTY just to have another MGS4 situation But there are some strong contenders this years so probably not.
I can list things I would like to be different in that game but it's definitely my GOTY, Mission 51 or not.
No clue if this is another vocal minority thing but it would be so awesome if it wins GAF GOTY just to have another MGS4 situation
But there are some strong contenders this years so probably not.RyanardoDaVinci
Member
Hell no.
Negatives:
- Mission structure.
- 70% of the "main" missions are filler BS that hardly have anything to do with the story.
- The story is not good and there's just too little of it.
- Everything about Quiet.
- Stupid unskippable, forced helo rides.
- SHUT THE FUCK UP MILLER!!!
- SPEAK THE FUCK UP SNAKE!!!
- Shoving FOB microtransactions all up in your business.
- BS online storage shit.
- I can't play the way I want to play because Snake's stupid fucking horn gets longer and he gets covered in blood because demons and metaphors and symbolism and deepness....
Positives:
- It's a dream to play/control.
- Open world is nice but it is too empty, needed more wildlife.
Second largest disappointment in the franchise, after MGS4. It's wonderful to play but all the other shit gets in the way and bogs down everything you do. I put over 120hrs into Ground Zeroes; I've probably barely put half of that into MGSV.
Negatives:
- Mission structure.
- 70% of the "main" missions are filler BS that hardly have anything to do with the story.
- The story is not good and there's just too little of it.
- Everything about Quiet.
- Stupid unskippable, forced helo rides.
- SHUT THE FUCK UP MILLER!!!
- SPEAK THE FUCK UP SNAKE!!!
- Shoving FOB microtransactions all up in your business.
- BS online storage shit.
- I can't play the way I want to play because Snake's stupid fucking horn gets longer and he gets covered in blood because demons and metaphors and symbolism and deepness....
Positives:
- It's a dream to play/control.
- Open world is nice but it is too empty, needed more wildlife.
Second largest disappointment in the franchise, after MGS4. It's wonderful to play but all the other shit gets in the way and bogs down everything you do. I put over 120hrs into Ground Zeroes; I've probably barely put half of that into MGSV.
TatteredHat
Member
No, while I am really enjoying myself with the game I could never rightfully give GOTY to a game that feels so unfinished.
Besides, Bloodborne and The Witcher 3 both came out in 2015, it never really stood a chance.
Besides, Bloodborne and The Witcher 3 both came out in 2015, it never really stood a chance.
I'm 80 hours in, at Mission 23, been playing for 2 months, and it's still my GOTY. Best 80 hours in video games I've had in years.
I don't really care if the game sucks after this point. If Kojima promised me the universe, but only delivered a galaxy, he still delivered a fucking galaxy. Even if he couldn't give me the whole universe, it is still a fuck-ton more content and gaming bliss than the backyard that most other game studios have given me this year.
.
I don't really care if the game sucks after this point. If Kojima promised me the universe, but only delivered a galaxy, he still delivered a fucking galaxy. Even if he couldn't give me the whole universe, it is still a fuck-ton more content and gaming bliss than the backyard that most other game studios have given me this year.
.
SlipperyFishes
Banned
Dude. You literally repeat more missions than play new ones in Chapter 2. I don't give a shit if they are under tougher conditions like "stealth only"
That shit was repetitive.
The best thing about this game - and if you disagree I'm going to ignore you - is the track "Rides a White Horse"
That music is just fucking epic, and should be Track of the Year if nothing else.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
It was my GOTY up until Mission 23 actually. Keep on playing and you'll realize why it's frustrating to see how badly mismanaged and incomplete the last dozen or so missions are. It's definitely the top 3 of the year.
The game doesn't feel that repetitive imo when you play it using the variety of options the game gives you to approach a scenario. I've visited the same outposts several times but my increasing arsenal of weapons and tactics keeps it interesting.
Corpsepyre
Banned
Already my GOTY alongside The Witcher 3. EP 51 won't change that.
Mr Waluigi
Banned
Those missions are optional though, if you're going to complain about them then complain about animal capture too.
i disagree about the music track, "afghanistan's a big place" is my track of the year
SolidusDave
Member
Good thing then that you don't have to do a single one of them to progress.
barneystuta83
Member
On the one hand it was my 'game' of the year. Probably the best 'game' in the Metal Gear series.
It did all the 'game' stuff superbly.
In 2015 though, especially a big AAA game, it needs a story. While there are some exceptions to the rule, they are rarely big budget games.
It is no surprise to see Life is Strange and Her Story topping some lists. They are all about the story and have limited 'game' in them. Certainly not in the traditional sense.
MGS V is a fantastic sandbox. The endless options to take out enemies, you can sneak or go loud, or even call in your buddies.
A huge varied weapon set, AI that countered how you played, and a series of side op missions. Many were a challenge, particularly if you wanted to 100% stealth.
It just completely messed up the story, pacing, and rushed the ending. Overall, it wasn't a 'bad' story. Just told very poorly.
If it had been told more effectively, it may have topped a few of the lists.
It did all the 'game' stuff superbly.
In 2015 though, especially a big AAA game, it needs a story. While there are some exceptions to the rule, they are rarely big budget games.
It is no surprise to see Life is Strange and Her Story topping some lists. They are all about the story and have limited 'game' in them. Certainly not in the traditional sense.
MGS V is a fantastic sandbox. The endless options to take out enemies, you can sneak or go loud, or even call in your buddies.
A huge varied weapon set, AI that countered how you played, and a series of side op missions. Many were a challenge, particularly if you wanted to 100% stealth.
It just completely messed up the story, pacing, and rushed the ending. Overall, it wasn't a 'bad' story. Just told very poorly.
If it had been told more effectively, it may have topped a few of the lists.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
Those variety of options couldve been 'options' from the get go for all missions. They needed to add the ability for you to play any mission any way you like, rather than splitting it into subsistence and stealth only missions that you're forced to do again to progress the story. Give every mission more replay value that way without looking cheap. Hell, the only mission that made sense to repeat was 'The Man Who Sold The World', and even that could be treated a little differently. It doesn't feel like a coherent and progressive story when that happens.
I think the game is pretty overrated in terms of the options it gives you. A lot of the tools are just variations on the same kinds of weapons - past MGS games might've had less overall, but there were more interesting things to play around with. Also being able to use supply drops kills any tension in the gameplay imo. Without any real penalty except for using GMP no less - guards will seriously react to the slightest thing but they don't do anything when a parachute appears out of nowhere to drop down items for you?
Add to that the shitty story (the game doesn't need to be story focused, but that doesn't mean sucking all the life out of it) and bland, empty world and, yeah. Not exactly one of my favorites, but still does a lot of things well. It's like the best disappointing game I've ever played.
Add to that the shitty story (the game doesn't need to be story focused, but that doesn't mean sucking all the life out of it) and bland, empty world and, yeah. Not exactly one of my favorites, but still does a lot of things well. It's like the best disappointing game I've ever played.
It is an utter masterpiece of gameplay with a giant amount of content - but with weird/terrible pacing and a tiny amount of story in comparison to the gameplay/missions. Remember the gameplay itself is amazing and that's why critics love it. Like, they all played the same game we did (though not to the same depth in most cases) and the vast majority of them really rated it.
It's basically the ultimate infiltration simulator, which is why I love it and it's almost my GotY. I can boot it up and make up my own spy/action movie and it's always amazing.
Find it really hard to understand people who think the gameplay or open world is bad. The level design is god-tier and every mechanic is amazing. If YOU play the game only tranquing every guard from afar, that's not THE GAME's fault. You can play MGSV in countless ways and they're all flawlessly executed.
And MGSV's open world is not an open world which is meant to be particularly great on its own merits. It's an open world which enables infiltration gameplay in a completely holistic way, and it doesn't really come into its own until you try to get all optional objectives on missions and/or you're in the later Side Ops.
If they could patch the mission variations into being an option for any mission that would allow it, that would be awesome.
Laziness is the only explanation for why that isn't the case. It couldn't have taken that much time.
RevolverRoden
Member
"Game is repetitive" always males me laugh. "Go in, gather Intel, extract target."
In that case, Bloodborne is repetitive. All you do is get to a new stage, fight enemies, kill boss.
In that case, Bloodborne is repetitive. All you do is get to a new stage, fight enemies, kill boss.
Wasnt there a rumor they were going to patch that in? Well, not a 'toggle' for the variant modes, but a lot more of them.
On PC i have it modded so EVERY mission is Subsistence style with no gear except Fulton, and honestly 9/10 of the levels are way better like that. Proper MGS OSP gameplay.
It's largely their fault.
You can play differently, but that's something the game discourages. All the information the game feeds you is that playing lethally is the wrong way to play. That's like saying 'Well, you can play Uncharted without using the cover system' - sure, it's an option, but it's also an option the design of the game discourages.
I didn't consider it incomplete. I just assumed the Eli narrative thread ended on a cliffhanger. _(ツ
What happened to your hand?
Not at all. Don't appreciate the strawman argument re Uncharted either. Totally facetious comparison.
1. Every mission can be replayed an infinite number of times, and with complete ease. There is literally an infinite amount of guards. They arent finite. So it doesnt matter if you play lethally. Hop in the ACC and choose the mission again if you want to do it again while Fultoning some guys.
It's YOUR choice to play non-lethal only. The game straight-up enables you to play however you want because there is always another chance to Fulton - And always another chance to load a mission and go psycho with an LMG. You will never reach an "end" where you cannot fulton anyone else.
2. There's a difference between 'punishment' and 'incentivisation'. MGSV does the latter.
You are incentivised to play non-lethal. You are not punished for playing lethal. There are a couple of missions (i can think of two) where it's definitely helpful to have good R&D. But in those cases, see point 3.
3. Even if you realise you need more guys, you aren't "stopped" by the game in getting more. It actually takes very little time to "grind" for more soldiers. Its not even "grinding" really. When you go into the open world with the specific goal of getting more guys, you can level your departments hugely within 45 minutes. I've done this and met my requirements in one session after lots of lethal play/botched missions.
Seriously, the game is set up so you can play however the fuck you want with no repercussions.
I suppose one's personal time is the only really good argument i can think of against this fact. That is, if you dont have much play-time in your life and want to finish the game effeciently, then yes, Fultoning is the way to go. But again, that's not the designer's limitation - it's yours.
Also Fultoning IS very addictive, on a strategic level, so indeed it CAN sometimes feel like that's the "only way" to play.
In these threads there are consistently people defending the game and claiming its their choice for GOTY.
While the game controls great and looks great I can't comprehend this. If you have any affiliation with the story of Metal Gear, any interest whatsoever, it's nothing but a disappointment. The narrative is hardly there and so weak compared to its predecessors.
While the game controls great and looks great I can't comprehend this. If you have any affiliation with the story of Metal Gear, any interest whatsoever, it's nothing but a disappointment. The narrative is hardly there and so weak compared to its predecessors.
You can play however you want much in the same way you can self-impose a playstyle in most games.
Certain ways of playing are discouraged via things outside of the gameplay. 'I won't use an airstrike because that limits the rank I can get'. The ranking system impedes on the freedom of play; yeah, you can play however you like, but some ways of playing are discouraged, and others are encouraged, and not by the gameplay itself.
The Fulton system skews the game towards non-lethality. It isn't presented as some optional component of the game. Yeah, you can choose not the Fulton people, sure, but the Mother Base system discourages that. It gives you stuff for filling your base with staff, and so you decide to fill your base with staff, and killing people doesn't help you to fill your base with staff.
So yeah, the game lets you play in any way you want, but to say that is to say very little. There is a playstyle than is heavily encouraged by the design of the game.
But more specifically to your points, SomTervo.
1) You can play any Uncharted game as many times as you want.
2) You are punished for playing lethally with a slower Mother Base progression and things like 'Demon Points', which reduce your Hero Score, which means that you get less high-ranking volunteering staff.
3) Just because you can grind Fultoning staff doesn't mean that's what most players will choose to do over playing the game whilst simultaneously Fultoning staff. Grinding would be the strange thing to do.
Certain ways of playing are discouraged via things outside of the gameplay. 'I won't use an airstrike because that limits the rank I can get'. The ranking system impedes on the freedom of play; yeah, you can play however you like, but some ways of playing are discouraged, and others are encouraged, and not by the gameplay itself.
The Fulton system skews the game towards non-lethality. It isn't presented as some optional component of the game. Yeah, you can choose not the Fulton people, sure, but the Mother Base system discourages that. It gives you stuff for filling your base with staff, and so you decide to fill your base with staff, and killing people doesn't help you to fill your base with staff.
So yeah, the game lets you play in any way you want, but to say that is to say very little. There is a playstyle than is heavily encouraged by the design of the game.
But more specifically to your points, SomTervo.
1) You can play any Uncharted game as many times as you want.
2) You are punished for playing lethally with a slower Mother Base progression and things like 'Demon Points', which reduce your Hero Score, which means that you get less high-ranking volunteering staff.
3) Just because you can grind Fultoning staff doesn't mean that's what most players will choose to do over playing the game whilst simultaneously Fultoning staff. Grinding would be the strange thing to do.
BRocknRolla
Member
It wasn't the only major problem, but it did contribute to bumping it down on my top 10.
Damerman
Member
this.
Rhazer Fusion
Member
Seems like a lot of the new/younger MGS players appreciate MGS5 more than the older fans who grew up on the game and followed it in it's entirety since the very beginning or from earlier games. I've been following MGS since the beginning and I personally liked the more linear/cinematic/shorter approach of the older games, but new players tend to lean more towards the open world structure. I think what happened was they wee making a MGS game that appealed more to mainstream gamers instead of pandering to the fans of the previous games. Some things worked really well in MGS5 like the gameplay and graphics, then some things really didn't work like the repetitive missions that have no relation to the story, open world seemed pointless and barren to me, lack of epic boss fights which to me are a staple of the franchise, lack of cinemas, Chapter 2 being incomplete, etc. I mentioned this before, but I think what happened was they tried to get a 10 hour game and stretch it out into a 50 hour game which is the equivalent of getting a 2 hour movie and changing it into a 10 hour movie without adding any new, unique content. I also think they should of cut out Chapter 2 entirely and implemented the exclusive missions and content including the hidden Quiet one into Chapter one and ended the game with the Sahelanthropus boss fight at least.
Langdon Alger
Banned
Because I don't care about video game stories. MGS5 is my GOTY because of the gameplay, which is incredible.
Plague Doctor
Member
Chapter 2 would have to have been a legit complete chapter (definitely a third new map) without repetitive missions and then, yeah I could have seen it as a GOTY contender.
1. Still not the same. If you want a certain weapon while playing mission 11 of an Uncharted game, you cannot, within the same playthrough, go back to mission 4 and get it, then return to mission 11. In MGSV if you're on Mission 45 and you decide you need to fulton more and get a better gun, you can – without breaking your 'playthrough' – go and play mission 24 for it then return with your better gun.
MGSV is an unusual game in that the missions don't need to be played in a linear fashion. It's not about the fact you can replay the whole game as a playthrough. It's about the fact you can impact where you are up to at any time by going back to an earlier mission - and your activities on said earlier mission will impact your current progress (eg fultoning people). Within your playthrough, missions/structure/time isn't linear.
2. As I said, slower MB progression is moot because you can stretch your resources out via the infinitely replayable, time-parallel earlier missions – however Demon Points is very valid. That is the only mechanic which punishes you, moving forward, for lethal play.
However, I'd argue it isn't something which impacts gameplay at all. I had 80 hours in the game before I heard about Demon Points, and not knowing about them, they had literally 0 impact on my playing experience. The game barely even mentions them.
3. You're not wrong, but you're still putting the onus on the players there. "It's not what most players will choose to do". That means nothing from the design perspective, because the designers built the option into the game. It's not the designers' fault that players didn't mess with the mechanics more and try other options they created.
This is a lot like saying "I played GTAV but I don't like driving in games so I chose not to drive the entire game and it was shit running everywhere." Ignore the actual mechanics in that example – obviously facetious design-wise – my point is the designers made it so that you have all these options, but because the player chose to play using only one of these options, they didn't like it – and that is not the designer's fault. In your line of rhetoric, you'd be saying something more akin to "they made the map so big that you have to drive everywhere even though the driving mechanic is really boring".
That analogy's losing it a bit – but my point again is that incentivising a certain playstyle/mechanic doesn't make it the only valid playstyle/toolset. The game is structured so that you can muck around with the other ones and there are no repercussions (bar the aforementioned Demon Points which are still a pretty nebulous/empty threat).
For the record, I played most of the game non-lethal and fultoning everything, and STILL thought the game was a masterpiece of gameplay with lots of variation and dynamic gameplay. Then, once Mission 47 was complete, I went back and full-lethalled lots of missions, for fun.
And it was amazing. Nothing in the game stops you from doing that while you're playing through it first-time.
Yeah, pretty much.
It takes a substantial hit for me the way things are: it's like a 5/10 in my mind and not a game I try to think about pretty much at all.
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