SatoAilDarko
Member
Are there any other examples of character overviews like the following that aired on ESPN2/U and Disney XD:
Interesting to see them.
Interesting to see them.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
If fighting games want to be mainstream esports, they need less fanservice
- Thread starter DrArchon
- Start date
Riposte
Member
Capcom currently has both.
Yup. Widowmaker's pants might as well be painted on.
JensenBeeswax
Member
Custom tournament uniform DLC packs. Have all characters wear professional looking jerseys. Put branding and sponsors on them. Done.
Deft Beck
Member
That'd remove a lot of their recognizability.
Megawarrior
Member
Zangief got censored too. No skin allowed apparently.
Would it really though? You can identify most characters just by their profile. Even more so with hair and special moves they do. They don't even have to be jersies. Could make them gi, tank tops, etc.
That's just the costume Itazan uses
I recall Bayonetta and Fox getting them as well, not sure if every character used in top 8 did though. I don't remember how many there were for SFV, but I believe Zangief may have gotten one.Are there any other examples of character overviews like the following that aired on ESPN2/U and Disney XD:
Interesting to see them.
Raging Spaniard
If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
Doesnt seem to be a problem when some half naked popstar is twerking on national tv.
I put the blame on ESPN, I think the designs are fine
I put the blame on ESPN, I think the designs are fine
Deft Beck
Member
How a fighting game character dresses is as much a part of their character as their profile, animations, etcetera. Would you want Bayonetta in a plain colored jersey?
I don't see the problem. We got DLC "school" outfits (and way more) making no sense whatsoever with many characters, so any argument against "tournament" outfit is moot anyway.
Nope, and that's just what I said. It doesn't even have to be a jersey.
So does forcing them to wear formal evening attire instead of their default outfits. Would make more sense in a tournament setting, on a tournament stage, for them to have a tournament outfit.
That's being a bit obtuse since I'm sure you know what I mean by topless, though
Anyway, regarding Cammy's mod - that's the actual sad part about this. We are robbed of potentially super cool designs because every SF female has to pass the Brazzers test. Can you imagine if that was the case for male fighters? Urien thongs being the norm + bulge bouncing, extreme close ups, and fighters generally acting as if they were male strippers?
I'm a straight male, and that'd be awesome.
Would it really though? You can identify most characters just by their profile. Even more so with hair and special moves they do. They don't even have to be jersies. Could make them gi, tank tops, etc.
That's just the costume Itazan uses
No it will look like crap, keep it in sports game let fighting games be fighting games.
Gief was wearing his bearskin costume and completely covered up the entire top 8. Dhalsim was his default outfit, but in his default outfit he wears shorts that extends to his knees, rather than wearing tight gym shorts.
Though I ain't complaining. The bearskin costume is Gief's coolest costume tbh.
Megawarrior
Member
God I miss Anna.And a tentacles costumes designed by a hentai artist:
Totally not on SFV level...
Yeah, but I imagine that most of straight men would think it's "so gay", ridiculous or embarrassing lol
I mean, I remember that I read someone saying that he was bothered by the pants of Ed's Battle Costume because they were "too tight". So if some men complain for something like that already, welp.
She's always been that:
Edit: Beaten, it was posted much earlier.
Agreed. Rake in that TnA tax.
SatoAilDarko
Member
God I miss Anna.
My main. Best Williams sister.
Yea, good thing developers aren't keeping the interest of homophobes and those who seeing a shirtless man make them question their sexuality in mind while designing those, isn't it?
I couldn't care less about what anyone who'd say the words "that's so gay" as a complaint thinks or feels.
And a tentacles costume designed by a hentai artist:
Totally not on SFV level...
Is it the default costume though?
I think this is the important thing: default costumes should be for all ages while dlcs or other ones can go wild. Only way to please everyone imo.
Uh sorry, I don't think I understand what you're saying. What do you mean?
(I suppose it was sarcasm, but I'm genuinely asking heh)
BudokaiMR2
Member
So sexualized and full of fanservice....
That's a silly argument to say that normal sports overtly sexualize women to any degree or extent that video games in general do. The women in beach volleyball choose what they wear, and their attire has a functional purpose. The models in fighting games do not. What they wear is chosen for them by the designer. Show me a female who battles on the front lines in a war or fights wearing clothes like Cammy or Laura. Even female UFC fighters wear clothing that is functional.
Some of y'all would be straight shook to know how many fanservice heavy designs are created by female artists.
There isn't anything actually less 'functional' about most of their costumes in comparison to the stuff the male fighters wear. Less functional would actually mean something like the alt costume for Cammy in the OP. Unless you actually believe a loose fitting party dress and heels are conducive to martial arts.
If that's the case I don't know what to say besides point out that opinions can actually be wrong.
I don't really agree that default costumes should be for all ages regardless of context (who the character is and what it is that they do, what game it is and by extension the age group that the product is actually being marketed toward, etc.). I do, however, agree that there should be no shortage of variety in outfits to suit various moods, tastes, and occasions. I can also see how it can be awkward to the point of taking the player out of the experience if nearly every character has a sexy or otherwise racy default outfit, even if that would seem unlikely based on background and/or characterization.
This can also be a factor: a character's most popular outfit won't always necessarily be the default, and could just as well be included as part of the base game rather than locked behind a paywall (an example of this would be Marie Rose's second outfit in DoA5, which definitely would not fly on a network like ESPN compared to her far more tame default).
I recall a poster on here talking about his wife complaining about the lack of fan service
Just pointing that it's a good thing developers aren't listening to those guys:
And keep releasing those kind of costumes.
Even if I disagree that most straight men would think this way.
Ah alright, sorry, I kept reading your sentence and for some reason, I couldn't understand it clearly lol (English isn't my native language, that's probably why).
Well, it's just an assumption, I could be wrong. Sometimes, a very vocal minority can be so toxic.
SENPAIatLARGE
Banned
We should be moving toward fanservice equality between all genders, not taking it away.
Mostly all fan service focused female designs end up looking stupid af. The focus of character designs should be to make the character look as amazing as possible without having the singular focus of going to absurd lengths just to make a design overly sexualized, which seems to be the case for several female characters in fighting games and reflects poorly on the genre as a whole.
Why, though? Why is the natural evolution of fighting games softcore porn? Why should every fighting game have sexual pandering? It's just, even though I'm gay, I wouldn't like it if all males in fighting games were overly sexualized strippers - that'd suck! I don't want to bang Dhalsim FFS.
Annoying to see so many 'Americans are prudes' comments on Neogaf. Is this the new 'men are sexualized too' response?
I don't think it's too much to ask to try to class up fighting games and ask for a higher tier of character design and storytelling. The shlocky, lowest common denominator approach that so many fighting games take is becoming grating. Like, if you want to play a fighter you also have to put up with tons of otaku baiting costumes and stupid characterizations.
Sexy can be done well. It HAS been done well. But I'd rather have an interesting cast of characters with varied designs than half the cast being some form of sexy Halloween costume.
I'm not an outsider, man, I've got fighting game tattoos! I just grew up and am tired of the same old crap.
I get that everyone wants to turn this into some kind of warped 'sex positive' conversation, but it really has less to do with hatred of sex and more to do with expecting a certain level of class and depth that fighters haven't been delivering. I don't want to be constantly pandered to. Sometimes I want to empathize or relate to the characters. Sometimes I want to watch original and interesting characters that aren't just leaning into their sexiness in exchange for proper design.
I don't think it's too much to ask to try to class up fighting games and ask for a higher tier of character design and storytelling. The shlocky, lowest common denominator approach that so many fighting games take is becoming grating. Like, if you want to play a fighter you also have to put up with tons of otaku baiting costumes and stupid characterizations.
Sexy can be done well. It HAS been done well. But I'd rather have an interesting cast of characters with varied designs than half the cast being some form of sexy Halloween costume.
I'm not an outsider, man, I've got fighting game tattoos! I just grew up and am tired of the same old crap.
I get that everyone wants to turn this into some kind of warped 'sex positive' conversation, but it really has less to do with hatred of sex and more to do with expecting a certain level of class and depth that fighters haven't been delivering. I don't want to be constantly pandered to. Sometimes I want to empathize or relate to the characters. Sometimes I want to watch original and interesting characters that aren't just leaning into their sexiness in exchange for proper design.
Rabid Dwarf 76
Member
Very interesting point. I wonder how different the art world would be if the classic painters had chosen not push boundaries or paint nudes for fear of offending the sensibilities of their day. Why is it okay for the art world and not video games?
Yeah, but for some characters, it seems like sex appeal is the only principle and overarching focus and whatever the other 11 principles are probably thrown in the gutter. Appeal also varies person by person. For me, this is appealing:
And this just makes me question why she's intentionally showing her thong outside her pants. It's like the dumb trend of guys that intentionally show their boxers with their pants pulled down to their knees.
Chingachgook
Banned
Thank god for this feature. So tired of American culture silencing other cultures creativity. It's ok to be offended, I'm offended too by many many times, but that my problem.
Enjoy life a little, laugh a little more, eSports is not the FGC and the FGC will never be boring or prudish like ESPN or Disney.
It's a bit sad selling out will most likely happen, from Capcom to players selling out, i don't blame them i would too, we all need hard cash. However I don't pretend that white-washing the characters, making them safe, well it going to be more boring, and that's sad.
Banana Aeon
Member
plasmawave
Banned
>Admitting to getting off to Ryona.
Some serious self projecting going on here.
Steve Youngblood
Member
I don't know. I'm still kind of scratching my head here just in that I feel like nothing meaningful really needs to be sacrificed to mitigate these types of concerns. To me, only two things are really of consequence.
1.) When the design team is creating the game, are they concerned at all about potential mass esport auidences? Should they be?
2.) Assuming that the answer to number one is "yes," is such sex appeal integral to the competitive core of the title.
I ask these questions in earnest. If the answer to both questions in question one is "no," then we're done. They make the game they want, and I guess it's on TOs to sort this stuff out in rulesets if need be. If the answer to number two is "yes," then I guess you just punt it back to the objectors and say "fuck you. Don't like it there's the door."
But personally? This really just seems like something where a compromise could be so easily made if there's any willingness at all to implement it. Esports is a growing thing right now. I think we're still kind of figuring out where it's headed and just how big it might be. Whether or not it needs cable companies like ESPN or Disney XD is sort of beside the point that these experiments are just kind of indicative of the fact that this type of competition is exploding. Maybe to some people that's not a good thing. I think it's very cool.
Anyway the problem is just that if you are willing to concede that certain configurations aren't Disney XD-friendly (which is just one way of saying not particularly PG), then the problem just becomes that handling these kinds of things ad hoc is kind of clumsy. Even if you say it's on ESPN/Disney or EVO to handle this kind of thing in advance, I think adding "appropriate costumes" to the ruleset isn't exactly the easiest endeavor. I honestly think this is something probably better handled at the game design level. Part of what makes gaming such a great hobby to me is the interactivity of it and how things can be customized such that you and I can be playing the same game and the game you're playing is almost completely different than the game I'm playing. So have PG-mode or EVO top 8 mode or whatever you want to call it and take the guesswork out of it.
I'm rehashing a point I made earlier, but I honestly think that this could have beneficial implications outside of just the once a year this comes up for stuff like airing events on kid-friendly cable stations. I have kids. My oldest is 5 and isn't really competent enough at games just yet for any fighting games to really click with him just yet (even Smash, he just gets frustrated and prefers stuff more like LEGO games and Minecraft), but it's on my radar what games I can play with him. And even though I'm not particularly great at fighting games I still like playing them and look forward to playing them with my kids at some point.
I do think it would be kind of nice to just have some central point to be able to tone down sexy fanservice and even violence. I'm not some hypocrite that thinks that boobies are bad but Mortal Kombat decapitations are a-okay. I'm really not very keen on exposing him to overly violent content either. I think options would be a good thing towards tailoring the experience to what the end user wants without impacting the core gameplay.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
It used to be a problem. Women were required to wear bikinis up until 2012.
So sexualized and full of fanservice....
That's a silly argument to say that normal sports overtly sexualize women to any degree or extent that video games in general do. The women in beach volleyball choose what they wear, and their attire has a functional purpose. The models in fighting games do not. What they wear is chosen for them by the designer. Show me a female who battles on the front lines in a war or fights wearing clothes like Cammy or Laura. Even female UFC fighters wear clothing that is functional.
Honestly I'd expect the usually liberal GAF to have a better response to this but I guess when well liked games and franchises are involved things are different.
I watched SFV top 8 with my gf and she said she enjoyed it a lot more than she expected to, as the game was really easy to understand and had more flash than Melee (which is my favorite fighting game). She specifically pointed out the outfits of all the female characters other than Chun Li though and said she thought it was bullshit that women have to suck it up and put up with female characters being explicitly designed for the male gaze if they want to play the game, not to mention the really toxic environment for women in the community. We both agreed that the fact that every tournament is a sausage fest regardless of what game is being hosted is indicative of a problem that should be attacked from all sides, but the only way that can happen is if the game to begin with creates a better experience for women to enjoy without feeling alienated.
I watched SFV top 8 with my gf and she said she enjoyed it a lot more than she expected to, as the game was really easy to understand and had more flash than Melee (which is my favorite fighting game). She specifically pointed out the outfits of all the female characters other than Chun Li though and said she thought it was bullshit that women have to suck it up and put up with female characters being explicitly designed for the male gaze if they want to play the game, not to mention the really toxic environment for women in the community. We both agreed that the fact that every tournament is a sausage fest regardless of what game is being hosted is indicative of a problem that should be attacked from all sides, but the only way that can happen is if the game to begin with creates a better experience for women to enjoy without feeling alienated.
One the person wasn't asking if women create fanservicey designs. They do, I know some , i'm related to one, she's my cousin. But she'll tell you that even though she does that, she still wants varity in character designs and more practical character designs in video games, comic ect.
So can we stop using the excuse of " well a woman drew a sexy lady that one time so its totally ok" because its not an argument.