JordanN
Banned
I don't think Iwata can say "well the Wii U failed but hey, we used our bank money to pay for it!".
If Nintendo can only justify making consoles because they can shed huge amounts of money for it then that's pretty bad.
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IGN: Exactly How Bad is the Nintendo Situation?
- Thread starter BY2K
- Start date
I don't think Iwata can say "well the Wii U failed but hey, we used our bank money to pay for it!".
If Nintendo can only justify making consoles because they can shed huge amounts of money for it then that's pretty bad.
1) Drop the 32GB SKU price by $100; 2) eliminate the 8GB SKU...nobody wants it; 3) Get some damn 1st party/system seller games on shelves = problem solved. This isn't complicated. It's about price point (relative to impending arrival of more powerful next-gen systems) and, most importantly, games. Cover those 2 bases and the Wii U will do just fine as a lesser cost secondary system for many PS4 and Xbone buyers.
Rushersauce
Banned
Yeah, nobody... That's why the 3DS is selling like hotcakes. And that's also why I don't want a 3DS! Oh wait! I want one.
Stop with the stupid hyperboles.
Here's another justification: they have that huge shed of money because they make their own consoles.
If they can make successful hardware, they make money off that and licensing to 3rd parties. Those revenue sources are gone without their own hardware.
One bomba console isn't going to change their mindset, and they could even still turn the Wii U around with a price drop, games, and marketing. It's not having Wii success, but like the Wii by design compete with the next gen consoles. It still has room to succeed.
Estocolmo
Member
But thats how they argue that Nintendo is not doing so bad right now in the OP. Its like, regardless of how failed the Wii U is, Nintendo still has a ton of cash in their deposits!
Nightstick11
Banned
Not really. Wii U is already almost there. Saturn was at 8.8 million and Dreamcast was at 10. It hasn't even been a year at Wii U has 3.5.
MadOdorMachine
No additional functions
It doesn't change the fact that the system is reliant on an expensive irreplaceable controller. By doing this, Nintendo created a barrier for easy access to their system, particularly with children. The design of the Wii U is flawed and not really conducive for the market it's targeting.
If they learn from their mistakes then the money in the bank will keep them in the game to try again. If they don't and do another Wii U, don't bother blowing the cash. You can have a lot of cash in the bank, but if you don't learn from previous mistakes you'll just burn through it.
So if they can't figure out how to make a solid console anymore, then 3rd Party still isn't a bad option.
Well... I mean there's a reason the Saturn and Dreamcast stopped at those numbers. Sega killed them.
The Saturn got to 8.8 million in 2.5 years. The Dreamcast got to 10.5 million in a little over 2 years.
hydragonwarrior
Member
Methinks he's being sarcastic.
Tathanen
Get Inside Her!
In a shareholder Q&A Iwata clarified that the reason they hold a strong cash position is exactly that: to eat up expenses caused when they try something that doesn't work as well as they might've wished. Their strategy as a company is to be disruptive and try new things, and they can't all be huge winners. They can afford the risks, though, because of that cash. It doesn't mean they don't have to right the ship, but that buffer is what allows them to function the way that they do.
JordanN
Banned
This isn't exactly forward thinking going by Nintendo's history of shrinking in the console market (i.e SNES,N64,Gamecube).
It also doesn't help their way of disruptive marketing also means fighting third parties, leaving them the only sole supporters of their system.
If Nintendo wants to go decades making Wii U like systems well, good luck I guess. It will be interesting to see how many people stick around each time.
I think ultimately Nintendo has two general directions they can go with in the console wars. Obviously they are going to stick it out with the wiiU for at least two more years but beyond that who knows. I can see two workable longer term solutions ATM and a third outside approach that could be feast or famine.
Further differentiate from the competition by going with a further low cost console thats priced in the range of impulse buy(something like $150-$250 max)and supported primarily by their own studios and a few partners. Rely on a business model that doesn't need insane volume to generate a profit, that makes Money on every unit sold and keeps development costs within reasonable levels of sales expectations. Basically a box catered to diehards, families and casuals only. Focus on building out from that core audience.
Second, nut up and get into the game with the big boys and start getting with the times for once. Get close to on par with the other two and compete based on quality of software. Make sure your components, disc format, controller(none of this wii-mote, button missing gamecube controller crap), online and everything else aligns itself with the way third parties operate in order to guarantee an easier stream of support. Invest heavier amounts of resources into penetrating the western and European markets with studios focusing on new ips that will build a new fanbase or rejuvinate a fanbase that has since left Nintendo. Think goldeneye and rogue squadron in the n64 era or the numerous ventures in the SNES era that brought exclusive sports titles and such.
....Third outside option. Go all in on having the first mainstreamarketed oculus rift type device for your home out to market in a few years before either Sony or Microsoft begin attempting to capitalize on it.
Further differentiate from the competition by going with a further low cost console thats priced in the range of impulse buy(something like $150-$250 max)and supported primarily by their own studios and a few partners. Rely on a business model that doesn't need insane volume to generate a profit, that makes Money on every unit sold and keeps development costs within reasonable levels of sales expectations. Basically a box catered to diehards, families and casuals only. Focus on building out from that core audience.
Second, nut up and get into the game with the big boys and start getting with the times for once. Get close to on par with the other two and compete based on quality of software. Make sure your components, disc format, controller(none of this wii-mote, button missing gamecube controller crap), online and everything else aligns itself with the way third parties operate in order to guarantee an easier stream of support. Invest heavier amounts of resources into penetrating the western and European markets with studios focusing on new ips that will build a new fanbase or rejuvinate a fanbase that has since left Nintendo. Think goldeneye and rogue squadron in the n64 era or the numerous ventures in the SNES era that brought exclusive sports titles and such.
....Third outside option. Go all in on having the first mainstreamarketed oculus rift type device for your home out to market in a few years before either Sony or Microsoft begin attempting to capitalize on it.
My feeling is Nintendo has a deck of Aces up their sleeve in case things every get really rough.
They only need to periodically release their NES/SNES titles on mobile devices to keep them in the black. They're sitting on a goldmine of ports that could keep the company from financial dire for a very long time.
They only need to periodically release their NES/SNES titles on mobile devices to keep them in the black. They're sitting on a goldmine of ports that could keep the company from financial dire for a very long time.
The level of bullshit in this thread... I should get a pair of your prediction glasses.
I don't think you guys are taking into account the horrible economic situation right now. And we are calling the Wi U a flop when we still have no idea how the PS4 and the Xbox ONE are going to sell. We should just stop jumping into conclusions and wait for how everything unfolds.
I don't think you guys are taking into account the horrible economic situation right now. And we are calling the Wi U a flop when we still have no idea how the PS4 and the Xbox ONE are going to sell. We should just stop jumping into conclusions and wait for how everything unfolds.
Honestly if the ps4 and xbone flop its going to say some serious stuff about the console industry as a whole. And would potentially mean an honest to god dire situation for Nintendo(and eveyone else) then just having a system that has so far flopped. It could signal that consoles and the economics supporting it just isn't a workable model anymore and the industry could crash again, leaving companies like Nintendo without a secondary source of revenue outside of their handheld games.
5 billion in cash wouldn't be enough to repair that kind of damage.
I think we're calling the Wii U a flop as compared to other historical flops; like the Gamecube, Dreamcast and Saturn.
JordanN
Banned
While anything can go wrong for PS4/XBO, using Wii U as a metric seems poor. Wii U gets called a flop because its situation looks dire in every way (games, future, marketing etc).
PS4/XBO are so far immune to alot of those problems, I'll be surprised if they slip anywhere as low as Wii U is, which is suppose to be below the Gamecube.
I think the people at Microsoft & Sony would not go forward with these new systems if they thought they were not going to be more successful than Wii U. Same goes for publishers who probably invested millions of dollars into these consoles expecting a big return later. They should have staff that do their research into what's viable and what's not.
TalesOfWin
Banned
over 5 billion dollars in cash and yet so cheap.
Time to invest in a powerhouse console again.
Time to invest in a powerhouse console again.
BruiserBear
Banned
There is actually a life lesson in all of this to be learned. If you avoid debt at all costs, you're always going to be safer in a financial sense. Nintendo has always been a very conservative company, and that means that even with the Wii U tanking, it's really not that big of a deal for them. They've got a lot of money to rely on to ride out the trouble they're in now.
For some reason, PS3 and 360 are selling a lot better despite being similarly priced.
EatinOlives
Member
Do you think the PS4 and XB1 are going to pull GameCube-like numbers? Because the WiiU is currently below that performance.
EDIT: And we already have plenty of preorder information from Amazon and the like pointing to very healthy launches for both of the consoles.
There is a very tangible enthusiasm gap for the Wii U though, and that has nothing to do with the global economy.
Right now you have more Vita supporters than Wii U supporters on NeoGAF by a country mile for example. The Vita is also actually selling better in key regions than the Wii U despite it's own huge issues and being a $250 handheld.
The Wii U is in terrible shape and the promise of the same franchises that captained the Gamecube to a little over 20M sales changing that isn't particularly strong.
I've said it before, will say it again. One Nintendo platform, handheld with HDMI connectivity, is the way forward. Seed a few key IPs into the iOS/Android market for stupid cash while developing that all-in-one handheld that will let Nintendo fans focus on buying that high profit margin software.
UnlovedJew
Member
I would consider it shocking if both the Xbox One and PS4 are NOT massive successes this holiday. Despite the economics, people have been waiting and saving their money for new consoles for a while. Look at the pre-order numbers. These consoles are already a massive topic of discussion among gamers that don't go on internet forums. It's a matter of how will the Wii U compare price wise and content wise by the time the consoles release.
Yep, Nintendo is the Toronto Maple Leafs of the console realm..
Did you read the article? Nobody knows what future brings but there's no immediate concern even if Wii U was a complete failure.
That's actually a pretty smart idea as well.
And with the growth of mobile processors, in 2-4 years a handheld plug in device could deliver adequate 1080p graphics and solid IQ on HDTVs.
Heck by then you could probably port most wiiU games to the thing pretty easily and start off with a pretty killer launch lineup of new and old titles available day one.
Can Crusher
Banned
Has less money than I thought. They should sell to Disney, then Nintendo would release a console with a bunch of Nintendo and Disney franchises. Money in the bank.
Glorified G
Member
What would ps4 and x1 flopping have anything to do with the wii u's abysmal sales? Ok, instead of one console selling like shit you'll have three instead.
Dacvak
No one shall be brought before our LORD David Bowie without the true and secret knowledge of the Photoshop. For in that time, so shall He appear.
$5 billion in the bank, and roughly another $5 billion in assets? I had no idea they had that much money.
Neff
Member
People will always want Nintendo games. It's something that simply never changes. The question Sony and MS should be asking is will people always want COD, GOW, UC, AC and the handful of other franchises marketable enough to warrant the kind of spending next gen tech invites? Because there isn't going to be much else on those platforms outside of indie games, which current gen can more than ably handle anyway.
I'm genuinely surprised someone else beat them to it and I think it's a big missed opportunity for them.
Can Crusher
Banned
Well I don't know how much money I was expecting them to have to be honest. I always saw Nintendo as the Disney of Videogames. But Disney just bought Lucas and Marvel for like 8 billion dollars, so that's what I considered as "having big time money".
If Nintendo comes out with another blunder like Wii U, they might be in trouble.
EatinOlives
Member
How many people are we talking here? Let's assume the lowest of the low here and go with the GameCube. That was an entire generation's worth of Nintendo games that didn't sit well at all with the company. Yes, it turned a profit, but Nintendo has never been shy about letting its investors know that it wasn't a good performance and they never want to repeat it again.
Given their opinion of the GameCube's performance, Nintendo does not seem to be pleased with only selling to the people who will always buy Nintendo.
Whatever the next consoles sell won't negate how terrible the wiiu is doing
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Well, it's a good thing Sony and Microsoft keep introducing new ips each generation then isn't it?
I'm actually very interested in how Microsoft will proceed in the business.They are also invested in the casual market. You see Minecraft at the top of sales charts, and I think it was an incredibly smart decision for Microsoft to get Minecraft as an exclusive for their console. It's this interplay between the PC and console market that Microsoft has that I wonder if Nintendo can get in on. Perhaps they hope to do the same by partnering up with indie devs and someday having indie exclusives that are hits both on smart devices and then people will want to get the further experience on the console. (I'm hoping for a Nintendo platformer creator)
The casual gamers are using other devices to play their games, but it seems that if a game becomes a favorite on one of those other devices, they are willing to complement the game with the console version. Sony and Microsoft both are about to do this with the bevy of apps that affect their console games, and I think Nintendo needs to find a way to incorporate the internet and their games in a similar manner. Miiverse's creation is a step in the right direction. I mean, Microsoft even made games for the DS, so I think it would be fair for Nintendo to incorporate PCs/ the Internet into their games in bigger ways, or to supplement their games. The casual market may have moved onto their smart devices, so Nintendo needs to get them back somehow.
The difficulty in hoping for an indie developed "killer app" to propel the sales of a full fledged console lies in the differences between the business model of console development and development in an i0S type environment or even one of the online stores on the consoles. I maintain that consumers still view such games, generally priced from F2P to 15 dollars, as "extras" to their respective hardware. They are impulse buys that people purchase to use on a piece of hardware (eg. iphone, iPod, iPad, PC) that they already bought for another purpose. The ubiquity of the hardware also drives sales of these games. It remains to be seen if a game like Angry Birds or Minecraft will be enough to drive the sales of a full priced console when consumers can already buy those games elsewhere without spending any additional money
Beyond that, I think Nintendo's chief difficulty in tapping this market is the same difficulty they have been having since the GameCube era: their increasing isolation from western game development, both console and PC. I get the sense that Nintendo currently is a somewhat over managed, overly centralized, Japanese focused company. Further, I get the sense that the thinking of Nintendo's current leadership with regard to third parties was largely cemented during the N64 era. During that time Japanese third party support was almost nonexistent but Western third parties actually had a fairly healthy presence. Everything since then strikes me as somewhat of an overreaction to that.
As for Microsoft, the XBOX line always was somewhat of a Trojan horse to eventually "capture the living room" in the form of a set top "do everything" box. The XBONE is actually a culmination of that vision. So in a way Microsoft also was always about finding an expanded audience for their product. However, unlike Nintendo, Microsoft is largely trying to expand their audience by offering features other than gaming, rather than expanding the audience for gaming itself.
What? Are we supposed to reveal ourselves in what Team we are? And you counted them all?
The vita is selling """""""better""""""",, and this a losely losely better, because they released their "hits, None of them selling more than 500k WW (AC 600k ok) and if you wanna buy it , you can get it for 150. Ist also a year longer on the market and ist a handheld, which gives it the "boost" from Japan over the WII U.
Look, i am not saying the wii u Situation is great, ist terrible we all know and realize that, even the #teamvita and #teamwiiu dudes. But i am still more more optimistic, that Nintendo will sell triple and quadruple of the Units, the vita can ever dream of to sell. WII U has sold only 1.5 Million less, despite the Vitas year Advantage and Mario and Zelda are coming.
Lets just wait and fjioödsfnsdjönfsönföasndfdasönf #TEAMVITA RULEZ
They did make the Virtual Boy.
I'm sure they have experimented with VR already, but can't get the performance as well as the mass market price. We have to wait for Oculus Rift to actually be in the market to see if its really going to be a success.
Manmademan
Member
If the xbone and ps4 end up selling anywhere NEAR wiiu levels, we would be looking at an industry collapse that made the crash of 84 look like a walk in the park.
Activision, EA, Ubisoft, Square Enix etc would cease to exist overnight.
There's no indication of a game market collapse of this magnitude. and as for the economic argument, the economy was MUCH worse in 07 and 08. if the sales of any console were affected, it would have been Wii/ps3/360.
current consoles can't use that as an excuse.
Steve Youngblood
Member
I think most everybody understands that. The rest just amounts to wishful thinking from fans who simply want Nintendo out of the hardware business, and analysts that may or may not actually understand this industry well.
Neff
Member
Nintendo's GC showing was rather weak imo. But like you say, it was still profitable. Nintendo is the only company that can keep its RRPs day one fresh, for years, and have them continue to sell. It's really quite unusual, especially in today's industry, but that's the power of Nintendo's ancient, beloved franchises and family-friendly formula.
It is, but sadly I don't think Lost Odyssey 2 is going to get a greenlight anytime soon. You can count the number of commercially safe Sony/MS franchises on both hands.
Nintendo will support the Wii U for the standard 4-5 years and hope it turns around, if it doesn't they may have to really think hard for their next console idea.
In the mean time their strategy seems to be "release games people want". It's making me want a Wii U, so I guess it's working. I'm literally waiting to see what kind of price drops/bundles are coming up this holiday season.
Also, I bet if the Wii U does die an early death people will look back on it fondly. That always seems to happen as long as the console has a handful of good games, and the Wii U already has that (if nothing else).
In the mean time their strategy seems to be "release games people want". It's making me want a Wii U, so I guess it's working. I'm literally waiting to see what kind of price drops/bundles are coming up this holiday season.
Also, I bet if the Wii U does die an early death people will look back on it fondly. That always seems to happen as long as the console has a handful of good games, and the Wii U already has that (if nothing else).
Canis lupus
Member
What number are you talking about when you say WiiU will sell triple or quadruple of Vita units? WiiU will do none of that, it will never cross Gamecube/N64 sales. Just the previous quarter WiiU only shipped a pathetic 160k worldwide. Mario and Zelda will be popular and sell systems no doubt, they were even popular on Gamecube selling between 5 to 10m units.
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