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[Always-honest]

wii 2 will be maybe 25% more powerful than ps3/360

Oh thanx for letting us know. At least now we know.

 

[Cosmonaut X]

All internal teams are going to have to undergo a complete toolchain and engine overhaul, there's simply no way around it. Their current development paradigm is an entire decade out of date and for the first year or two Nintendo will be trailing behind their third party counterparts, just as they are on 3DS but this will be to an even more pronounced degree. They'll catch up eventually but don't expect them to even touch the surface of what the hardware is capable of for a couple years after launch at least.

To suggest Retro will even be in the same league as Crytek during the launch period, is simply laughable. Crysis 2 onmax settings in 1080p is the level of quality that Crytek should be hitting at launch, you can't just make the leap from a basic fixed function piipelline to the ultra cutting edge overnight. Its going to take years of research and re-skilling.

Fair points, but are you not making a bit of a leap in assuming that there has been no training or research? I can't imagine that Nintendo's teams have sat on their arses happily churning out work based on GCN and GCN+ engines, completely oblivious to developments in hardware and engine tech elsewhere and making no efforts to keep up - especially when they know they will be making the transition soon enough.

It's true that what little we've seen of Nintendo's 3DS output so far suggests they are a bit behind third parties in fixed function shader use, although most of what we have seen so far is from outside studios - Monster Games/Pilotwings, Vitei/Steel Diver, Grezzo/OoT3D - and the only internally-developed title out right now - Nintendogs - isn't what I would expect to be a showcase for Pica.

 

[1-D_FTW]

It's 2008 tech, so still 3 years newer than what's sitting in PS360. WhatI don't understand why R700 would be even considered, the console should have new technology that has higher performance per transistor (or watt), just scaled in size and clock rate compared to R6850.

Just because something's in the dev kit doesn't mean it's being used in the final version. It just means it has comparable performance to what's being developed. When the new chips start getting manufactured in numbers, they'll swap the dev kits for the final product.

 

[Mr_Brit]

Fair points, but are you not making a bit of a leap in assuming that there has been no training or research? I can't imagine that Nintendo's teams have sat on their arses happily churning out work based on GCN and GCN+ engines, completely oblivious to developments in hardware and engine tech elsewhere and making no efforts to keep up - especially when they know they will be making the transition soon enough.

It's true that what little we've seen of Nintendo's 3DS output so far suggests they are a bit behind third parties in fixed function shader use, although most of what we have seen so far is from outside studios - Monster Games/Pilotwings, Vitei/Steel Diver, Grezzo/OoT3D - and the only internally-developed title out right now - Nintendogs - isn't what I would expect to be a showcase for Pica.

What he said is true, most Nintendo staff won't be familiar with things like SSAO, complex material shaders, global illumination, complex physics, streaming etc. These aren't things that can be taught and implemented company wide in a year, it will take a long time for Nintendo to catch up to third party abilities but luckily they'll probably be rendering at 1080p/60FPS which will help to lessen the gulf as well as possibly shutting out the use of things like GI due to already high rendering costs at 1080p/60FPS.

 

[Cosmonaut X]

What he said is true, most Nintendo staff won't be familiar with things like SSAO, complex material shaders, global illumination, complex physics, streaming etc. These aren't things that can be taught and implemented company wide in a year, it will take a long time for Nintendo to catch up to third party abilities but luckily they'll probably be rendering at 1080p/60FPS which will help to lessen the gulf as well as possibly shutting out the use of things like GI due to already high rendering costs at 1080p/60FPS.

...except that's not what I'm suggesting.

Nintendo's management had to know that at some point post-Wii they would be making the jump to HD development, with all the changes in tech and tools that would entail. However, unlike the kind of half-blind leap typically made when moving from one gen to another they've got several years of other companies' experience and technologies to learn from and I can't imagine they haven't had at least some teams, or parts thereof, doing just that for quite some time.

 

[szaromir]

What he said is true, most Nintendo staff won't be familiar with things like SSAO, complex material shaders, global illumination, complex physics, streaming etc. These aren't things that can be taught and implemented company wide in a year, it will take a long time for Nintendo to catch up to third party abilities but luckily they'll probably be rendering at 1080p/60FPS which will help to lessen the gulf as well as possibly shutting out the use of things like GI due to already high rendering costs at 1080p/60FPS.

1080p? Let's be real, Full HD won't be the ultimate goal in most cases, many Wii games are subSD, so for Wii2 720p will also be a common choice.

 

[Mr_Brit]

1080p? Let's be real, Full HD won't be the ultimate goal in most cases, many Wii games are subSD, so for Wii2 720p will also be a common choice.

1080p games are cheaper to make than 720p games as the increased computational load means that you can make less complex games which fits in to Nintendo's strategy of keeping costs low. Making the machine 720p means more expensive to produce games as you can dedicate more power to better effects which increases costs.

Edit: What I mean is that at 1080p as opposed to 720p you are forced to use less complex shaders, textures, lighting effects as your rendering load is higher due to the increased resolution.

 

[Log4Girlz]

1080p games are cheaper to make than 720p games as the increased computational load means that you can make less complex games which fits in to Nintendo's strategy of keeping costs low. Making the machine 720p means more expensive to produce games as you can dedicate more power to better effects which increases costs.

Oh thank god they don't stay with SD resolutions, the costs for producing games would be astronomical!

 

[zoukka]

1080p games are cheaper to make than 720p games as the increased computational load means that you can make less complex games which fits in to Nintendo's strategy of keeping costs low. Making the machine 720p means more expensive to produce games as you can dedicate more power to better effects which increases costs.

Sense, this post makes none.

 

[szaromir]

1080p games are cheaper to make than 720p games as the increased computational load means that you can make less complex games which fits in to Nintendo's strategy of keeping costs low. Making the machine 720p means more expensive to produce games as you can dedicate more power to better effects which increases costs.

Yeah, but it'll depend on the game's goals, Animal Crossing will have simple graphics so it'll be able to run at 1080p, for SMG3 they might go for more sophisticated look, so they won't be able to run it at 1080p. I don't think they'll aim for 1080p and then try to make it look as good as possible at that resolution, instead they'll make it look as they want to and then choose the reolution depending on the graphics fidelity.

 

[Jocchan]

All internal teams are going to have to undergo a complete toolchain and engine overhaul, there's simply no way around it. Their current development paradigm is an entire decade out of date and for the first year or two Nintendo will be trailing behind their third party counterparts, just as they are on 3DS but this will be to an even more pronounced degree. They'll catch up eventually but don't expect them to even touch the surface of what the hardware is capable of for a couple years after launch at least.

To suggest Retro will even be in the same league as Crytek during the launch period, is simply laughable. Crysis 2 onmax settings in 1080p is the level of quality that Crytek should be hitting at launch, you can't just make the leap from a basic fixed function piipelline to the ultra cutting edge overnight. Its going to take years of research and re-skilling.

While I fundamentally agree with you, we should also consider that the next Nintendo console being powerful enough to output at HD resolutions has been public knowledge for two or three years.
So, it's not unreasonable to expect Nintendo to start gearing up their teams a bit in advance for a generational leap. They'll still likely trail behind at first, but probably not as much as one would expect.

 

[Jocchan]

Sense, this post makes none.

I think he means that a Wii-level game rendered at 1080p with some slapped-on AA is cheaper than a PS360-level game at 720p.

 

[Equus Bellator Apex]

Oh thanx for letting us know. At least now we know.

You spelled "thanks" wrong.

 

[brain_stew]

While I fundamentally agree with you, we should also consider that the next Nintendo console being powerful enough to output at HD resolutions has been public knowledge for two or three years.
So, it's not unreasonable to expect Nintendo to start gearing up their teams a bit in advance for a generational leap. They'll still likely trail behind at first, but probably not as much as one would expect.

Of course there will have been some level of preparation but there's still the day job of developing games on 1990s technology. A developer in crunch isn't going to get months off to train up on how to develop for some future platform. The greatest experience comes from actually developing games around this technology and learning the shortcuts and what works best first hand.

Even if some specialised teams have been brewing industry leading technology for several years, that's still only a small part of the problem. The transition will be slow and painful just as it was for everyone else who wasn't on the cutting edge of PC development around 2004. Outside of Capcom, most Japanese studios were still facing this problem until a year or two ago.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

Sense, this post makes none.

"You have to use 100% of the power of your system or your family will spontaneously die, which brings development costs down."

 

[[Nintex]]

Of course there will have been some level of preparation but there's still the day job of developing games on 1990s technology. A developer in crunch isn't going to get months off to train up on how to develop for some future platform. The greatest experience comes from actually developing games around this technology and learning the shortcuts and what works best first hand.

Even if some specialised teams have been brewing industry leading technology for several years, that's still only a small part of the problem. The transition will be slow and painful just as it was for everyone else who wasn't on the cutting edge of PC development around 2004. Outside of Capcom, most Japanese studios were still facing this problem until a year or two ago.

I think Nintendo games will look different across the board. So the Wii Sports type of games will still have simple visuals, while they'll go all out with Pikmin, Smash Bros. and Mario. I don't think Nintendo will have as much trouble as other Japanese developers. They probably hired some people to fix this problem and they have some of the best programmers and engineers working for them. They'll probably have teams working on HD tech for a while now, just like during the Project Dolphin days when games like Super Smash Bros. Melee were made in less than a year.

 

[Nirolak]

While I fundamentally agree with you, we should also consider that the next Nintendo console being powerful enough to output at HD resolutions has been public knowledge for two or three years.
So, it's not unreasonable to expect Nintendo to start gearing up their teams a bit in advance for a generational leap. They'll still likely trail behind at first, but probably not as much as one would expect.

The only thing that makes me wonder is the way their 3DS games look.

If they were getting notable amounts of HD experience and education, that knowledge should have bled over to their 3DS titles as well.

I think Nintendo games will look different across the board. So the Wii Sports type of games will still have simple visuals, while they'll go all out with Pikmin, Smash Bros. and Mario. I don't think Nintendo will have as much trouble as other Japanese developers. They probably hired some people to fix this problem and they have some of the best programmers and engineers working for them. They'll probably have teams working on HD tech for a while now, just like during the Project Dolphin days when games like Super Smash Bros. Melee were made in less than a year.

From where though? The West had the CG industry and a PC pedigree. Nintendo has to steal top engineering employees from Japanese firms they have worked at for decades.

 

[From The Dust]

The only thing that makes me wonder is the way their 3DS games look.

If they were getting notable amounts of HD experience and education, that knowledge should have bled over to their 3DS titles as well.


From where though?

isn't console and portable hardware development in two separate departments? but even so they should have been developed under a common theme (for lack of a better word)

 

[Jocchan]

Of course there will have been some level of preparation but there's still the day job of developing games on 1990s technology. A developer in crunch isn't going to get months off to train up on how to develop for some future platform. The greatest experience comes from actually developing games around this technology and learning the shortcuts and what works best first hand.

Even if some specialised teams have been brewing industry leading technology for several years, that's still only a small part of the problem. The transition will be slow and painful just as it was for everyone else who wasn't on the cutting edge of PC development around 2004. Outside of Capcom, most Japanese studios were still facing this problem until a year or two ago.

Oh, sure. We're already seeing this on the 3DS, after all. I just expect at least some of their top-tier teams to catch up faster, since they probably have been preparing for an upcoming generational leap for a while, but of course it will still take time.

 

[Nirolak]

isn't console and portable hardware development in two separate departments? but even so they should have been developed under a common theme (for lack of a better word)

There is some team splitting, but for example, a lot of the people who did Phantom Hourglass and New Super Mario Bros. DS were doing New Super Mario Bros. Wii, so this suggests that they definitely have a notable amount of staff floating between their platforms.

In theory they should be able to share advanced technology between the platforms as well in the same we we see a stripped down version of MT Framework 2.0 on the 3DS, but so far we haven't really seen any signs of that.

I mean, they could just be isolating all their 3DS employees from their HD knowledge, but I just can't really think of a reason why they would do so.

 

[Cosmonaut X]

The only thing that makes me wonder is the way their 3DS games look.

Which 3DS titles are you thinking of, though? They've only released one internally-developed title so far - Nintendogs + Cats - and we've only got in-development shots and footage of titles like Mario Kart 3DS etc.

 

[Nirolak]

Which 3DS titles are you thinking of, though? They've only released one internally-developed title so far - Nintendogs + Cats - and we've only got in-development shots and footage of titles like Mario Kart 3DS etc.

That's also kind of concerning on a different level, since it seems the HD switch might be eating their development bandwidth pretty heavily.

 

[Cosmonaut X]

That's also kind of concerning on a different level, since it seems the HD switch might be eating their development bandwidth pretty heavily.

Well, that's quite possible - the reliance on partners like Grezzo, Monster Games, Vitei and Project Sora for launch/near-launch titles is suggestive.

 

[jax (old)]

You know all this talk about future tech/ nintendo and the west, well, hate to say it but I think the east is still playing catch up. Nothing from Japan beats gears/uncharted etc. In terms of visuals.

But the extra computational grunt will at least deliver current gen console graphics and well.... That might just be enough for nintendo.

I want a launch metro if prime4 game with sick visuals and I might consider. Third party stuff, I'll still with the ps3/x360 til their next gen consoles come along

 

[maeh2k]

it's not unreasonable to expect Nintendo to start gearing up their teams a bit in advance for a generational leap. They'll still likely trail behind at first, but probably not as much as one would expect.

I don't think Nintendo will just try to go head-to-head with the competition on the tech side.

Just because they have a powerful console that can do HD graphics, I don't see them spending 100 million on a game with the scope of GTA or give Link a voice or something crazy ^^

Maybe they don't even need to. Their IPs tend to not go for a photorealistic look and I'd imagine most of them would work very well even without cutting-edge graphics techniques. The 3rd parties will have the technology and will (ideally) bring it to the Wii 2.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

I agree, $250 DS is much more surprising than even a $399 console would be. Especially since it's basically coming with both a console and some kind of NGP tablet type device. There is a lot of perceived value in that if they market it right. $250 DS just looks like 3D iteration of DS/DSL/DSi/DSXL.

See ShockingAlberto see?!

 

[Wolves Evolve]

Nothing from Japan beats gears

I think this is probably false, judging by the fact its totally false.

 

[mandiller]

Does anyone else thing there is a high probability the Wii vitality sensor will be incorporated into the grip of the Wii 2's controller, i.e. you just need to hold the controller firmly for it to measure your pulse.

Imagine playing L4D2 on it and the AI director ramps it up everytime you get relaxed

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Everyone seems to care more about hardware than software, which is crazy.

Well, sure, we could talk about all the software rumors and what we make of those design decisions. Like...?

I just can't see Nintendo releasing a console that's over $300. It doesn't sound like them.

Five years ago one could say the same, but using $200.

do you guys really think that nintendo would make their next console equally priced/just $50 more than the $250 dollar handheld they have on the market?

That I don't think is a big deal. N64/GBC, GCN/GBA, Wii/DS have been within $50 of each other a lot. Probably could say the same for older systems, but I don't have such clear memories of pricing of 15+ years ago.

So guys, the rumored spec now: the R700, and what seems like an overclocked 360 CPU and probably at least a gig of ram: can someone explain what this will translate to graphically?

Will it be able to do current 360/PS3 level graphics at 60 FPS, 1080P?

I imagine that would vary quite a bit depending both on where you choose to guess the GPU/CPU will actualy fall, and which X360/PS3 game you're using as the starting point for comparison.

 

[wsippel]

Well, sure, we could talk about all the software rumors and what we make of those design decisions. Like...?

I can make a few up if you want? The Samaritan demo we saw wasn't actually running on a PC, it was running on a Café prototype devkit and the game will be a launch title published by Nintendo. Also, the World Ends With You 2 will be announced at E3 and will also be a Café exclusive, the combat system will make full use of the touchscreen. Retro is working on an open world Metroid Prime in which Samus is actually bounty hunting for once, and Grasshopper will of course show a first teaser for No More Heroes 3.

 

[[Nintex]]

I'll be shocked if we don't get to play Sonic Generations on Stream in November. I wonder if third parties will be able to announce games in advance when Nintendo makes it official that the system is coming(possibly on monday). That way they could show that they're serious on third party support this time.

 

[Plinko]

Does anyone else thing there is a high probability the Wii vitality sensor will be incorporated into the grip of the Wii 2's controller, i.e. you just need to hold the controller firmly for it to measure your pulse.

Imagine playing L4D2 on it and the AI director ramps it up everytime you get relaxed

I still think there will be finger "holsters" over top of the triggers.

 

[Azure J]

Well, that's quite possible - the reliance on partners like Grezzo, Monster Games, Vitei and Project Sora for launch/near-launch titles is suggestive.

Project Sora is Nintendo as much as Retro is. Which brings up a pretty interesting point, does anyone else feel as though Nintendo might start really expanding again and acquiring folks who can both jive with their developer philosophies as well as handle the increased workloads producing for HD will be in the future?

 

[MadOdorMachine]

You know all this talk about future tech/ nintendo and the west, well, hate to say it but I think the east is still playing catch up. Nothing from Japan beats gears/uncharted etc. In terms of visuals.

But the extra computational grunt will at least deliver current gen console graphics and well.... That might just be enough for nintendo.

I want a launch metro if prime4 game with sick visuals and I might consider. Third party stuff, I'll still with the ps3/x360 til their next gen consoles come along

I don't think Nintendo will go for Uncharted level visuals. One thing that struck me about Uncharted were how detailed the animations were. I would love to see a Zelda game like that, but most eastern devs don't seem to go for that. Even something that has detailed animations like Bayonetta seems to be more stylized. It's just a different style all together. High budget western games tend to go for a realistic look whereas Japanese developers don't seem to mind going for exaggerated fantasy visuals as much. I think that suits Nintendo well and I would fine seeing something with Dolphin visuals in full 1080p and 60fps as the rule rather than the exception for their first party games.

 

[Azure J]

Nintendo's has been pretty good about animations and 60FPS before anything else for a while. That post of yours MadOdorMachine made me remember one of the Iwata Asks on Mario Galaxy stating that the programmer/engineer responsible for that really wanted that to happen due to the level of animations they wanted to use in the game/series. I wouldn't put it past Nintendo to work and get that much right before anything else.

 

[Cosmonaut X]

Project Sora is Nintendo as much as Retro is. Which brings up a pretty interesting point, does anyone else feel as though Nintendo might start really expanding again and acquiring folks who can both jive with their developer philosophies as well as handle the increased workloads producing for HD will be in the future?

I thought Sora was a 70/30 split between Nintendo and Sora Ltd, so not quite the same as Retro...

 

[Azure J]

I thought Sora was a 70/30 split between Nintendo and Sora Ltd, so not quite the same as Retro...

Oh, I counted them as more Nintendo than "random helping hand" is what I meant by my post. You're right though, I almost forgot about that.

 

[Jocchan]

I don't think Nintendo will just try to go head-to-head with the competition on the tech side.

Just because they have a powerful console that can do HD graphics, I don't see them spending 100 million on a game with the scope of GTA or give Link a voice or something crazy ^^

Maybe they don't even need to. Their IPs tend to not go for a photorealistic look and I'd imagine most of them would work very well even without cutting-edge graphics techniques. The 3rd parties will have the technology and will (ideally) bring it to the Wii 2.

Which is not what I said. Using modern shaders doesn't imply going for a photorealistic look or going head to head with the competition.

 

[[Nintex]]

Just a thought, what if Zelda Skyward Sword on Stream looks like the E3 2010 renders they used for the trailer. Like this:

 

[MadOdorMachine]

Nintendo's has been pretty good about animations and 60FPS before anything else for a while. That post of yours MadOdorMachine made me remember one of the Iwata Asks on Mario Galaxy stating that the programmer/engineer responsible for that really wanted that to happen due to the level of animations they wanted to use in the game/series. I wouldn't put it past Nintendo to work and get that much right before anything else.

I think I remember reading/seeing that it takes Drake running a minute and a half before the motions are repeated. I would love to see that in a Zelda game. I know Nintendo had mo-cap before a lot of other developers. They've certainly got experience doing it and given Zelda's long development cycles, maybe we will see something at that level of detail. I'm just so used to them being ultra conservative that I don't expect it.

 

[Plinko]

I think I remember reading/seeing that it takes Drake running a minute and a half before the motions are repeated. I would love to see that in a Zelda game. I know Nintendo had mo-cap before a lot of other developers. They've certainly got experience doing it and given Zelda's long development cycles, maybe we will see something at that level of detail. I'm just so used to them being ultra conservative that I don't expect it.

Not to try and derail the thread, but isn't this exactly why dev costs are skyrocketing? Do we really NEED a minute and a half worth of unique running animation? 99.9% of people playing probably won't notice it at all. It just seems useless.

 

[MadOdorMachine]

Not to try and derail the thread, but isn't this exactly why dev costs are skyrocketing? Do we really NEED a minute and a half worth of unique running animation? 99.9% of people playing probably won't notice it at all. It just seems useless.

When it takes Link 10 minutes to run across a field I'm not going to lie, it would be nice. Actually, I completely forgot about a Nintendo game that really surprised me with animations - Metroid: Other M. They really did an outstanding job on how fluid the motions connected. Now I'm starting to get my hopes up and I'm thinking about physics and Pikmin.

 

[Nessus]

The only thing that makes me wonder is the way their 3DS games look.

If they were getting notable amounts of HD experience and education, that knowledge should have bled over to their 3DS titles as well.

To be fair, of their DS games we've seen:

Kid Icarus, which doesn't seem to be a big budget title, a bit on the experimental side with odd controls and hugely contrasting gameplay styles, for a franchise that hasn't seen a game in over 20 years and wasn't that big to begin with. It's also being made by Project Sora, not one of Nintendo's core teams.

Zelda and Star Fox 64, which are self-styled "remasters" not full-on remakes, more akin to Perfect Dark XBLA than, say, the Resident Evil remake on GameCube, and aren't even being made by Nintendo; Zelda at least is being handled by a company called Grezzo, whom I hadn't even heard of until it was announced.

Pilotwings, which wasn't made by Nintendo (made by Monster Games) and seems somewhat budget conscious, reusing a lot of assets apparently to make it out in time for the 3DS launch.

And Steel Diver, a very low budget fleshing out of an original DS tech demo that's been around for years.

About the ONLY game we've been shown that is being internally developed at Nintendo and should have a substantial budget and a core team working on it is Mario Kart.

And yeah, the Mario Kart screenshots have looked pretty bad, though there has been fairly positive response from people who've seen the game in motion, apparently locked at 60fps. We also haven't seen anything on the game in months, so there is a chance they'll tighten up the graphics before it's released.

I dunno, I think we have to wait a while to really be able to judge Nintendo's competency with modern graphical effects like shaders, etc.

And of course, even Mario 3DS won't be the best game to base our comparisons on because it's being made by Tokyo EAD, one of only 2 Nintendo studios (along with Retro) known for actually pushing hardware and producing exceptional graphics. It wouldn't be fair to use one of Nintendo's best teams to try and establish a baseline of graphical quality we can expect.

I think when we see what the Zelda team (who make amazing games, but often have muddy textures, low poly models, etc., even when compared to their contemporaries) can do with Nintendo's new hardware (3DS and Stream) we'll finally have a reasonable idea of what they are capable of.

 

[WrikaWrek]

Just a thought, what if Zelda Skyward Sword on Stream looks like the E3 2010 renders they used for the trailer. Like this:

Am i supposed to be in awe?

 

[nincompoop]

PCs with the latest GPUs aren't getting that from every game. Pick one and be happy with it.

If I had to choose, I'd definitely go with 60fps. I'd like to see 60fps as a standard expectation nextgen. It makes such a big difference.

What decade are you living in? Modern GPUs are so powerful these days that they're hardly even bottlenecked by resolutions up to 1080p. Of course you have bad developers who will always choose effects over framerate, but if the GPU is at least as powerful as a 4770 then I guarantee that Nintendo's games (other than Zelda, which they refuse to let run at a good framerate for some reason) will run at 1080/60 no problem.

 

[Cosmonaut X]

Pilotwings, which wasn't made by Nintendo (made by Monster Games) and seems somewhat budget conscious, reusing a lot of assets apparently to make it out in time for the 3DS launch.

Actually, Pilotwings surprised me with the use of some neat graphical effects - the water on the cavern walls, and the reflective effects on the jetpack being particular standouts. It's obviously locked into the Wii X style, but there are some nifty touches on top of the simple art style.

 

[1-D_FTW]

Does anyone else thing there is a high probability the Wii vitality sensor will be incorporated into the grip of the Wii 2's controller, i.e. you just need to hold the controller firmly for it to measure your pulse.

Imagine playing L4D2 on it and the AI director ramps it up everytime you get relaxed

That's how I imagine it's going to be incorporated. If they can't do naturally and unobtrusively, it's not worth doing.

 

[Cosmonaut X]

That's how I imagine it's going to be incorporated. If they can't do naturally and unobtrusively, it's not worth doing.

Mm. If you're going to use the readings ingame, I'd imagine you want to avoid interrupting the flow of a game - and potentially "spoiling" the feedback - by asking a player to put on a device. Could certainly be a reason why the VS disappeared - perhaps it made more sense to incorporate it into something the player holds all the time, rather than a dongle they have to be asked to put on or remove.

 

[wsippel]

Mm. If you're going to use the readings ingame, I'd imagine you want to avoid interrupting the flow of a game - and potentially "spoiling" the feedback - by asking a player to put on a device. Could certainly be a reason why the VS disappeared - perhaps it made more sense to incorporate it into something the player holds all the time, rather than a dongle they have to be asked to put on or remove.

That would be my guess as well. The idea always sounded interesting, but the proposed implementation made it useless.

 

[bj00rn_]

Sounds a bit weaksauce for a brand new console design.

Also, had a Dreamcast with VMU, and that concept was completely useless (Loved the Dreamcast itself though), so I don't get the Wii2 controller, by experience I'm not at all interested in looking at my controller while playing.

Hoping for better news when we get to know more.