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[jwluther]

I'm probably late but ... are games going to be $60 on this thing?

 

[Dreams-Visions]

1080p!

60fps!

PCs with the latest GPUs aren't getting that from every game. Pick one and be happy with it.

If I had to choose, I'd definitely go with 60fps. I'd like to see 60fps as a standard expectation nextgen. It makes such a big difference.

 

[DonMigs85]

It would be nice if this thing can actually render GCN/Wii games at a higher resolution, although I suppose there's a chance that certain 2D elements or overlays might get messed up. So maybe we might just get PS3-like upscaling instead.
Also I really hope we get a 4870 at least, not just a 4770-level GPU. With a 4870 we should be able to get a solid 1080p/60FPS with better effects, higher polygon counts and image quality than Wipeout HD.

 

[Shalashaska161]

Really? The 3d is pretty awesome and the 3ds itself is a pretty good package at the moment. Its only missing more/better games and a few hardware features (i.e. online stuff, eShop). The system itself is very solid and the built in stuff is great.

I kind of regret mine, but my sister has been playing Nintendogs on it a bunch so I guess it's not a total loss. The system itself is fine, there is just nothing to play on it at the moment. That's sort of the curse of all newly launched hardware though.

 

[DonMigs85]

PCs with the latest GPUs aren't getting that from every game. Pick one and be happy with it.

If I had to choose, I'd definitely go with 60fps. I'd like to see 60fps as a standard expectation nextgen. It makes such a big difference.

If the game had a 3D mode that cuts either resolution or framerate in half, which would you prefer?

 

[GDGF]

I'm probably late but ... are games going to be $60 on this thing?

If I was Nintendo I would let companies charge 60 bucks for their games, but keep mine at 50. They used to do this in the SNES days. It would probably piss of a few third parties, though (just like it did back then)

 

[Instro]

PCs with the latest GPUs aren't getting that from every game. Pick one and be happy with it.

If I had to choose, I'd definitely go with 60fps. I'd like to see 60fps as a standard expectation nextgen. It makes such a big difference.

60fps will never be standard, devs will invariably sacrifice framerate for extra shiny effects and shit.

On a related note, that new Tri-Ace engine apparently only runs at 30fps and 720p on the 360/PS3 so that would probably be a pretty great candidate for use on the Wii successor.

 

[watershed]

I kind of regret mine, but my sister has been playing Nintendogs on it a bunch so I guess it's not a total loss. The system itself is fine, there is just nothing to play on it at the moment. That's sort of the curse of all newly launched hardware though.

I agree there aren't many good games on it right now. But because I bought mine with trade in value I figured it was cheaper now than it would be later. Also because of streetpass I end up playing everyday a little anyways. Once OoT hits I will log in some serious hours. That's the only port I'm excited about.

 

[EatChildren]

It's cute seeing people excited over a 60fps standard. Framerate adds so much to a game's presentation (in my opinion), but it's never going to happen. Not on consoles. Develops can and always will push the hardware beyond.

 

[Log4Girlz]

It's cute seeing people excited over a 60fps standard. Framerate adds so much to a game's presentation (in my opinion), but it's never going to happen. Not on consoles. Develops can and always will push the hardware beyond.

Framerate is always the first thing sacrificed in an engine to allow more detail to be displayed. Always.

 

[Nirolak]

Framerate is always the first thing sacrificed in an engine to allow more detail to be displayed. Always.

Followed by anti-aliasing, resolution, vertical sync, and finally anisotropic filtering.

Basically anything related to image quality goes while anything related to effects stays, because enough people sit far enough away from their TVs that they notice image quality reductions the least.

This is also sadly why a large amount of people who have their HDTVs hook them up with SD cables and never realize it.

 

[_Alkaline_]

It's cute seeing people excited over a 60fps standard. Framerate adds so much to a game's presentation (in my opinion), but it's never going to happen. Not on consoles. Develops can and always will push the hardware beyond.

I think the last five games I've completed have all been 60fps. I'm scared of going back.

 

[MadOdorMachine]

It's cute seeing people excited over a 60fps standard. Framerate adds so much to a game's presentation (in my opinion), but it's never going to happen. Not on consoles. Develops can and always will push the hardware beyond.

It's actually one of the more realistic features to be expected out of Wii 2's performance for third party games. People getting their hopes up for a 2011 release are just setting themselves up for disappointment as well. They've never released a console with such a short timespan after an announcement. Fall 2012 is more than likely when we'll see it.

 

[szaromir]

Followed by anisotropic filtering, v-sync , anti-aliasing and finally resolution.

Fixed.

 

[Zeliard]

Followed by anti-aliasing, resolution, vertical sync, and finally anisotropic filtering.

Basically anything related to image quality goes while anything related to effects stays, because enough people sit far enough away from their TVs that they notice image quality reductions the least.

This is also sadly why a large amount of people who have their HDTVs hook them up with SD cables and never realize it.

Yeah, it's led to many not realizing or understanding the huge gains in visual fidelity that come with pristine IQ. It makes a world of a difference.

 

[overcast]

Why so soon?

 

[EatChildren]

It's actually one of the more realistic features to be expected out of Wii 2's performance for third party games. People getting their hopes up for a 2011 release are just setting themselves up for disappointment as well. They've never released a console with such a short timespan after an announcement. Fall 2012 is more than likely when we'll see it.

It's not really, unless the system is an absolute beast on par with modern PCs (which I seriously doubt it will be). If it is stronger third parties will see if they can crank a little more out of their games.

As long as games are being built as multi-platform with PC included, and are able to scale quite high, they'll be pushed as high as they can at the expense of framerate.

And that doesn't even factor in the dodgy port jobs and poor optimisation we're destined to get.

 

[mj1108]

Why so soon?

So soon? November will be 5 years since the Wii came out.

 

[zoukka]

It's cute seeing people excited over a 60fps standard. Framerate adds so much to a game's presentation (in my opinion), but it's never going to happen. Not on consoles. Develops can and always will push the hardware beyond.

Well if one publisher would enforce it, it would be Nintendo. Won't happen of course.

Nintendo's own IP's are often 60fps keep in mind.

 

[Nirolak]

It's actually one of the more realistic features to be expected out of Wii 2's performance for third party games. People getting their hopes up for a 2011 release are just setting themselves up for disappointment as well. They've never released a console with such a short timespan after an announcement. Fall 2012 is more than likely when we'll see it.

I think a more realistic feature to expect is a solid 30 fps, which is something the vast majority of HD games fail at.

Even then I think that is a fairly optimistic outlook.

 

[Durante]

Fixed.

I was about to do the same. I don't get why so many console developers sacrifice AF first. It should be one of the cheapest of the IQ features and it makes a massive difference in clarity.

 

[overcast]

So soon? November will be 5 years since the Wii came out.

But the other consoles have 2 more years to produce much more powerful tech. Which they will.

 

[Stencil]

Fall 2011 isn't realistic. In business sense it's way too close with 3DS's release and Nintendo doesn't have resources to pump out enough games for both 3DS and Wii2.

But Nintendo is magic.

 

[Nirolak]

But the other consoles have 2 more years to produce much more powerful tech. Which they will.

I'm not sure that matters to Nintendo that much.

I mean, look at the support the GameCube got. That thing was more powerful and much easier to develop for than the PS2, but it didn't seem to help much.

 

[Net_Wrecker]

But the other consoles have 2 more years to produce much more powerful tech. Which they will.

I feel like we're hitting a ceiling, at least on the 360. I don't see how games will get anymore impressive technically 2 years from now while holding a playable framerate. Artistically of course it'll always be possible to make more beautiful games, but there has to be a point where the devs think "Y'know, is it really worth it anymore to put so much time and money into this 7 year old hardware?"

 

[MadOdorMachine]

It's not really, unless the system is an absolute beast on par with modern PCs (which I seriously doubt it will be). If it is stronger third parties will see if they can crank a little more out of their games.

As long as games are being built as multi-platform with PC included, and are able to scale quite high, they'll be pushed as high as they can at the expense of framerate.

And that doesn't even factor in the dodgy port jobs and poor optimisation we're destined to get.

I don't play a lot of PC games but something like Crysis 2 which looked like crap on PS3 ran beautifully on my PC (3GHz Core 2 Duo, GeForce GTS 250 & 2GB ram) at max settings with a better framerate and higher resolution. That's what I expect out of Wii 2 at the most. If it does more, I'll be pleasantly surprised. I expect the next Xbox or Playstation to have the massive leap in graphics and be able to run something like Crysis 1 at max settings, 1080p & 60 fps as a minimum.

 

[Graphics Horse]

Part of it depends if it's looked on as launching first or last. Nintendo hasn't launched first since, ...NES?

 

[Zeliard]

I expect the next Xbox or Playstation to have the massive leap in graphics and be able to run something like Crysis 1 at max settings, 1080p & 60 fps as a minimum.

You should probably dial those expectations down a few notches.

 

[wsippel]

1080p!

60fps!

Well, maybe the source made a mistake and meant Radeon 7000, not 700.

 

[Nirolak]

Well, maybe the source made a mistake and meant Radeon 7000, not 700.

Aww hell yes.

 

[Corky]

Well, maybe the source made a mistake and meant Radeon 7000, not 700.

Well when it comes to pcs and 60fps@1080p, max settings, more often than not you're left at the mercy of the software, i.e the games, with regards on how well it runs.

Take DA2, you could have the best rig in the world but given the conditions even said rig would fall to it's knees because of something being broken and/or unoptimized.

edit : what I'm trying to say is that if you have a uniform hardware spec / performance across the userbase ( i.e consoles ) then it might not be totally outrageous to except 60fps and 1080p.

 

[MadOdorMachine]

You should probably dial those expectations down a few notches.

Or people shouldn't lower their standards. Crysis came out almost 5 years ago and it's still the benchmark for PC graphics. If they can't achieve that as a minimum on a next gen system, quite frankly I have to wonder what the point in upgrading is.

 

[Instro]

Aww hell yes.

32MB?! Awwwww yea

 

[wsippel]

Aww hell yes.

Southern Islands of course. But that would be funny, too.

 

[Plywood]

Aww hell yes.

http://www.abload.de/img/51jbm6k762l2ppp.jpg

32mb? Pfft, no dev is ever gonna use all of that.

 

[brain_stew]

Depends on which team.
Retro will likely go nuts with a new engine that fully utilizes the hardware.
EAD1 will probably use modified engines (which they've been doing for decades anyway) and polish them to a gleaming shine like always.

All internal teams are going to have to undergo a complete toolchain and engine overhaul, there's simply no way around it. Their current development paradigm is an entire decade out of date and for the first year or two Nintendo will be trailing behind their third party counterparts, just as they are on 3DS but this will be to an even more pronounced degree. They'll catch up eventually but don't expect them to even touch the surface of what the hardware is capable of for a couple years after launch at least.

To suggest Retro will even be in the same league as Crytek during the launch period, is simply laughable. Crysis 2 onmax settings in 1080p is the level of quality that Crytek should be hitting at launch, you can't just make the leap from a basic fixed function piipelline to the ultra cutting edge overnight. Its going to take years of research and re-skilling.

 

[kpx0]

R700 is already outdated.....

 

[brain_stew]

PCs with the latest GPUs aren't getting that from every game. Pick one and be happy with it.

If I had to choose, I'd definitely go with 60fps. I'd like to see 60fps as a standard expectation nextgen. It makes such a big difference.

Anything from a 4870 and up can acheive that in a competant multiplatform release at the same quality settings. Unless developers crank up the quality and effects for their Wii 2 releases then achieving those two things in tandem shouldn't be much of an issue in a closed box, even if we end up with something around the 4770 mark. If developers are going for cheap ports, then its logical that framerate and resolution are the areas thatt will initially benefit, as they can both be upgraded without any extra investment.

 

[Blutonium]

R700 is already outdated.....

That's why they'll make tons of money with this thing. And I'm going to help them get it.

 

[Eteric Rice]

I kind of regret mine, but my sister has been playing Nintendogs on it a bunch so I guess it's not a total loss. The system itself is fine, there is just nothing to play on it at the moment. That's sort of the curse of all newly launched hardware though.

Mine is sitting in it's cradle, waiting for June.

It waits. :O

 

[cw_sasuke]

R700 is already outdated.....

 

[szaromir]

R700 is already outdated.....

It's 2008 tech, so still 3 years newer than what's sitting in PS360. WhatI don't understand why R700 would be even considered, the console should have new technology that has higher performance per transistor (or watt), just scaled in size and clock rate compared to R6850.

 

[Kilrogg]

Followed by anti-aliasing, resolution, vertical sync, and finally anisotropic filtering.

Basically anything related to image quality goes while anything related to effects stays, because enough people sit far enough away from their TVs that they notice image quality reductions the least.

This is also sadly why a large amount of people who have their HDTVs hook them up with SD cables and never realize it.

Following the point you made, what's actually sad is that companies pushed HDTVs for their image quality so hard without realizing why people wanted them in the first place. I won't blame people for not realizing what apparently wouldn't have much of an impact on their experience anyway.

 

[wsippel]

It's 2008 tech, so still 3 years newer than what's sitting in PS360. WhatI don't understand why R700 would be even considered, the console should have new technology that has higher performance per transistor (or watt), just scaled in size and clock rate compared to R6850.

I don't think it'll be an off-the-shelf part, so I guess it's possible AMD spent two years modifying the GPU - creating a PowerPC based Fusion APU or something.

 

[brain_stew]

It's 2008 tech, so still 3 years newer than what's sitting in PS360. WhatI don't understand why R700 would be even considered, the console should have new technology that has higher performance per transistor (or watt), just scaled in size and clock rate compared to R6850.

Every generation after that haas to add full support for the DX11 API which trades transistors for an increased featureset. If Nintendo don't feel that increased featureset is beneficial then it makes sense that they'd use the most efficient DX10.1 GPU on the market as the initial base and optimise for efficiency from there. Whatever part they choose is going to be customised and die shrunk anyway.

 

[Always-honest]

But the other consoles have 2 more years to produce much more powerful tech. Which they will.

fine. Wii is allready 10 years behind on tech. time to catch up a bit.

 

[wsippel]

Every generation after that haas to add full support for the DX11 API which trades transistors for an increased featureset. If Nintendo don't feel that increased featureset is beneficial then it makes sense that they'd use the most efficient DX10.1 GPU on the market as the initial base and optimise for efficiency from there. Whatever part they choose is going to be customised and die shrunk anyway.

I noticed that. There was an unusually huge increase in transistor count from R700 to Evergreen. Typically, the transistor count increased by 30% - 50% per generation, but at that point it was more than 100%. I guess a lot of that had to do with DirectCompute? I don't think Nintendo would care about that.

 

[duk]

wii 2 will be maybe 25% more powerful than ps3/360

 

[DonMigs85]

I noticed that. There was an unusually huge increase in transistor count from R700 to Evergreen. Typically, the transistor count increased by 30% - 50% per generation, but at that point it was more than 100%. I guess a lot of that had to do with DirectCompute? I don't think Nintendo would care about that.

Yeah, the 5870 essentially doubled its SP count over the 4870.

 

[szaromir]

Every generation after that haas to add full support for the DX11 API which trades transistors for an increased featureset. If Nintendo don't feel that increased featureset is beneficial then it makes sense that they'd use the most efficient DX10.1 GPU on the market as the initial base and optimise for efficiency from there. Whatever part they choose is going to be customised and die shrunk anyway.

OK, makes sense then.

I don't think it'll take Nintendo years to catch up to competition, they can look at 10 years of programmable shader based games and decide what would work best for them. Obviously Animal Crossing etc. will still be fugly, but something like Super Mario Galaxy 3 to truely shine and look much better than its competition (like Sonic Generations etc). I don't expect Nintendo realistic artstyle, so they won't be competing with DICEs of the world.