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[Beren the Empty-Handed]

With regards to Guinan, what were your thoughts on the character? People seem to generally hate Whoopi Goldberg for being too "wholesome," but I always thought she was a competent actress & she was great whenever Guinan had appeared on-screen.

Guinan is an interesting character, and they had to walk a very fine line with her. The concept is great - an ancient alien just along for the ride - but the danger there is to over-rely on them to solve problems. She could have all of the answers, and running to her would be a fast way to solve the plot. Imagine a Wesley where he didn't have to search for the answers. But they used her sparingly, with the reason that she purposefully keeps her distance out of seemingly personal preference. In that regard she's great.

But she's also very one-dimensional. It's true that the part isn't large (for reasons I've already gone over), and what little character development I've seen is great (I, Borg), but there just isn't a lot of personality there. This is probably highlighted by the fact that Whoopi Goldberg is the one playing her. Whoopi has a ton of personality, and is a fairly great actress when playing to her strengths, but she doesn't bring much to the table with this character. Yes, the sage-like character is going to be a bit stiffer than most others, but a truly great actor can add little touches to flesh out that kind of character more. Whoopi doesn't do this, and only plays the character from one angle. This isn't "wrong" or anything like that, but she doesn't add anything either. I'm not saying I'd like to see more Whoopi in Guinan, but I'd like to see more of the portrait than she's painting. Or, she's sticking to the same few colors, and rightly so, but I'd like to see some subtler shades. This is something Brent Spiner as Data excels at, and Patrick Stewart does no matter what he's in. I've got the generals, but I'd like some little details.

 

[Blues1990]

Seconding this. Watch the first episode. It's not that good, but it does tie into the finale, which is amazing.

I was able to watch the episodes that people had recommended me to check out for Season 1, as well as the pilot. Q had irritated the shit out of me, as he's nothing more but a "Cosmic Joker", who does nothing more but acts upon his victims at the most opportune or inopportune times. But, I have already mentioned, I liked that he had to show Picard that he shouldn't be complacent, and that there are some things in the universe that he isn't prepared for. I'm hoping that Q improves as a character, as I'm willing to just read up on the episodes that he appears in.

 

[Frozenprince]

I was able to watch the episodes that people had recommended me to check out for Season 1, as well as the pilot. Q had irritated the shit out of me, as he's nothing more but a "Cosmic Joker", who does nothing more but acts upon his victims at the most opportune or inopportune times. But, I have already mentioned, I liked that he had to show Picard that he shouldn't be complacent, and that there are some things in the universe that he isn't prepared for. I'm hoping that Q improves as a character, as I'm willing to just read up on the episodes that he appears in.

Watch DS9 next, Sisko gets a perfect catharsis moment for Q.

 

[Blues1990]

Guinan is an interesting character, and they had to walk a very fine line with her. The concept is great - an ancient alien just along for the ride - but the danger there is to over-rely on them to solve problems. She could have all of the answers, and running to her would be a fast way to solve the plot. Imagine a Wesley where he didn't have to search for the answers. But they used her sparingly, with the reason that she purposefully keeps her distance out of seemingly personal preference. In that regard she's great.

But she's also very one-dimensional. It's true that the part isn't large (for reasons I've already gone over), and what little character development I've seen is great (I, Borg), but there just isn't a lot of personality there. This is probably highlighted by the fact that Whoopi Goldberg is the one playing her. Whoopi has a ton of personality, and is a fairly great actress when playing to her strengths, but she doesn't bring much to the table with this character. Yes, the sage-like character is going to be a bit stiffer than most others, but a truly great actor can add little touches to flesh out that kind of character more. Whoopi doesn't do this, and only plays the character from one angle. This isn't "wrong" or anything like that, but she doesn't add anything either. I'm not saying I'd like to see more Whoopi in Guinan, but I'd like to see more of the portrait than she's painting. Or, she's sticking to the same few colors, and rightly so, but I'd like to see some subtler shades. This is something Brent Spiner as Data excels at, and Patrick Stewart does no matter what he's in. I've got the generals, but I'd like some little details.

Interesting. I do agree that Guinan (so far) lacks the subtleties & character moments that the rest of the cast has. (Even Wesley will probably have his moments to shine and to show that he's more than an annoying teenager.) But given how sporadic her appearances were, it's also understandable that she wouldn't have those opportunities to be more than that "strange, old, wise-something". I actually liked that she was an ancient alien that was traveling about and being a simple observer to the on-goings of the universe, which is a nice change for most of the species that have appeared in the series, which are usually hostile or aggressive.

Watch DS9 next, Sisko gets a perfect catharsis moment for Q.

Which episodes does this Sisko tear Q asunder?

 

[BlackClouds]

If you skip season 1 then you'll have no connection to Tasha Yar in Yesterday's Enterprise, which is a top 5 episode in the entire series.

 

[Volimar]

If you skip season 1 then you'll have no connection to Tasha Yar in Yesterday's Enterprise, which is a top 5 episode in the entire series.

One of the best things about Yesterday's Enterprise is the callback it gets later. You don't see that in reset button episodes and Trek did it twice, once with Voyager.

 

[Beren the Empty-Handed]

Interesting. I do agree that Guinan (so far) lacks the subtleties & character moments that the rest of the cast has. (Even Wesley will probably have his moments to shine and to show that he's more than an annoying teenager.) But given how sporadic her appearances were, it's also understandable that she wouldn't have those opportunities to be more than that "strange, old, wise-something". I actually liked that she was an ancient alien that was traveling about and being a simple observer to the on-goings of the universe, which is a nice change for most of the species that have appeared in the series, which are usually hostile or aggressive.

I like Guinan just fine. But there are opportunities for actors to flesh out little pieces of their character while doing business as usual. Guinan being a very old alien has more opportunities for this than most, but Whoopi doesn't attempt to do anything other than deliver the dialogue in largely the same way every time. Time's Arrow, which I just watched a couple of days ago, was a prime opportunity for this, but other than what's in the script, nothing was added. A great actor on top of their game will find those moments, but Whoopi isn't doing it here.

 

[Htown]

Good for you OP, TNG is awesome.

It's a shame you've already started because Max Temkin's guide to TNG in 40 hours is a really good way to go, then going back and watching the rest as you see fit.

disagree

it leaves out too many essential episodes

 

[Wensih]

I too started watching TNG recently. I'm on season 3 now. It's been quite the Trek... Season 3 has a noticeable jump in writing and sets compared to season 1 and 2. My momentum is slowing down though.

 

[foxtrot3d]

Which episodes does this Sisko tear Q asunder?

Sisko is the lead of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine which is the BEST Trek show. Basically, once you're done with TNG you need to hop right on DS9.

 

[Masterphoenix]

I truly love this show and the episode "Measure of a Man" was also one of my favorites, the dialogue, the tension and stress displayed by the characters during the episode was fantastic. I re-watch the series every so often. One of my favorite series of all time.

 

[jb1234]

Which episodes does this Sisko tear Q asunder?

Q only pops into DS9 once, in "Q-Less", early season 1. His appearance wasn't unbearable but I guess everyone involved decided that DS9 wasn't the best fit for the character.

 

[foxtrot3d]

Q only pops into DS9 once, in "Q-Less", early season 1. His appearance wasn't unbearable but I guess everyone involved decided that DS9 wasn't the best fit for the character.

Yeah, they needed him to try and give Voyager some character. It didn't work of course.

 

[jb1234]

Yeah, they needed him to try and give Voyager some character. It didn't work of course.

To be fair, I remember Q's first Voyager appearance to be quite good, the one where the other Q wants to commit suicide.

 

[Blues1990]

I too started watching TNG recently. I'm on season 3 now. It's been quite the Trek... Season 3 has a noticeable jump in writing and sets compared to season 1 and 2. My momentum is slowing down though.

I'm glad that I'm able to check out this series, as it's pretty awesome (so far). I'm usually more of a Fire Fly kind of guy, but I'm enjoying it.

Sisko is the lead of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine which is the BEST Trek show. Basically, once you're done with TNG you need to hop right on DS9.

Q only pops into DS9 once, in "Q-Less", early season 1. His appearance wasn't unbearable but I guess everyone involved decided that DS9 wasn't the best fit for the character.

Okay, thank you for the info. Here's hoping that he's a bit more bearable in the future. Though, until Deep Space 9 appears on Netflix, I have limited options to watch it.

Yeah, they needed him to try and give Voyager some character. It didn't work of course.

I keep hearing that Star Trek: Voyager is....unwatchable. If it's true, how so?

 

[jb1234]

I keep hearing that Star Trek: Voyager is....unwatchable. If it's true, how so?

Nah, that's hyperbole. Voyager has its fair share of good episodes and even a bunch of great ones. It's just very unevenly written and it doesn't remotely take advantage of its concept. While DS9 (airing at the same time) got increasingly more serialized, with a large supporting cast, Voyager was content to be a more action-packed TNG-lite, primarily standalone episodes where the species of the week plot is wrapped up by the end.

If that's all you want, it can be a lot of fun, depending on the episode you're watching.

 

[Krejlooc]

One of the best things about Yesterday's Enterprise is the callback it gets later. You don't see that in reset button episodes and Trek did it twice, once with Voyager.

I thought that was ridiculous. And it never gets really resolved, does it?

I recently watched the whole series for the first time and really enjoyed it. TNG is great, but I couldn't get into any of the other shows. So many people recommended DS9 to me, but it's nothing like TNG.

The last episode, "All good things," is excellent and one of my favorite "last episodes" of any series.

 

[TheYanger]

DS9 IS on netflix

 

[BorkBork]

I keep hearing that Star Trek: Voyager is....unwatchable. If it's true, how so?

Voyager is TNG with less likeable characters, a less capable cast, worse execution, playing with ideas TNG has mined to death already. It's watchable - there are a few good episodes - but it won't bring anything new to the table.

 

[siddx]

I'm glad that I'm able to check out this series, as it's pretty awesome (so far). I'm usually more of a Fire Fly kind of guy, but I'm enjoying it.





Okay, thank you for the info. Here's hoping that he's a bit more bearable in the future. Though, until Deep Space 9 appears on Netflix, I have limited options to watch it.



I keep hearing that Star Trek: Voyager is....unwatchable. If it's true, how so?

Calling Voyager unwatchable is hyperbolic nonsense. The kind of statement people on the internet love to make because the more definitive and unyielding your statement is the more important you feel, like some kind of king making a declaration.
There are many good episodes of voyager, and there are many entertaining episodes. There are of course some bad ones, and a handful of downright awful ones. But it's like a hybrid of TNG and DS9 that might not be perfect but certainly has it's moments. It is very much worth watching if you enjoy star trek.

If you are dying for more trek after all that, start looking into the novels as well. In the last 10 or so years, they started getting all the authors on the same boat so that almost all the novels coming out share the same timeline and universe so it feels more cohesive and like you are truly reading the further adventures of all the characters you watched.

 

[thetrin]

Go back and watch Season 1, specifically "Conspiracy". You can't miss the following:

- Stop motion bug aliens crawling into people's ears.
- Riker high kicking an old man in the face
- Riker and Picard exploding a man's head with their phasers.

Conspiracy is one of the most un-TNG TNG eps I've ever watched. It's worth it purely for the bizarre spectacle.

I am sad that those aliens never ever showed up again in TNG (or in any other series).

Anyway, once you get to Season 3, you're in for some great eps. I do feel like TNG relied too heavily on the "weird thing happens to the crew of the Enterprise!" plots (and it's more noticeable when you marathon the series), but they're still fun.

 

[Novocaine]

There's some strange episode combos, or lack of combos on that list.

Recommends "Descent", but not "Datalore" or "Brothers", so the viewer would have no clue who Lore is.

Recommends "Ship in a Bottle", but not "Elementary, Dear Data".

Recommends "Ensign Ro", but not her final episode.

Recommends "Rascals" and "The Game" instead of just about anything else.

I don't disagree that it leaves out some good/important episodes. But it does include most of them and at the same time leave out a lot of fluff. Considering that the series is 180? episodes long I do think it's a good starting point for a newcomer to the series and much less daunting than the prospect of having to go through7 seasons. But I would suggest that anybody who does go through the list and enjoy it to go back and watch the entire series in order.

 

[alexandros]

Best of Both Worlds
All Good Things...
The Innter Light
Tapestry
Darmok
Yesterdays Enterprise
The Measures of a Man
Chain of Command
Lower Decks
Q-Who

 

[radcliff]

I also support watching select season 1 episodes:

Encounter at Farpoint- you will definitely appreciate and understand the finale more

Naked Now- something happens to Data that is referenced a few times in episodes and one of the movies

Where no one has gone before- start of a story arc

Datalaore- introduces recurring character and start of a story arc

11001001- introduces a character that will return in a very interesting way in a very good later episode

Skin of evil- sets ups a major story arc that continues throughout the series

Conspiracy- one of the darker tng episodes

Neutral zone- introduces romulans and foreshadows a much more menacing foe

 

[Cpt Conifer]

Poor Miranda Class. The cannon fodder of the Federation.

LOL!!!

Also just have to add my vote for season 1. One of the funniest moments ever is when they straight-up admit that people will be using the holodeck for porn in the 24th century, in a series of scenes with Riker in "1001101". His dialogue is priceless when he's instructing the holodeck on the type of woman he wants. I don't know, I just thought it was kind of ballsy and I was shocked because I watched TNG as a kid and then went back a few years ago and saw a lot of S1 that I missed.

I also loved the episode where everyone got infected with a virus that made them drunk. (Crusher and Picard ROFL, also scenes with Riker).

Also I don't know what season this was but I thought Patrick Stewart's acting was amazing in the episode about torture.

 

[Volimar]

Also I don't know what season this was but I thought Patrick Stewart's acting was amazing in the episode about torture.

 

[industrian]

One of the funniest moments ever is when they straight-up admit that people will be using the holodeck for porn in the 24th century

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lobo3c0NFg

 

[Htown]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lobo3c0NFg

hahaha I forgot that one

 

[dragonyeuw]

At the end of the day, there are references in later seasons and the movies that will fly overhead if you miss the early stuff. It just comes with the territory. I think there's a lot of crap in season 7 but I wouldn't recommend someone not seeing it. It's like any other long running series, just take the good with the bad.

 

[Dictator93]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lobo3c0NFg

I somehow missed this all these years. Fantastic.

 

[foxtrot3d]

Voyager is TNG with less likeable characters, a less capable cast, worse execution, playing with ideas TNG has mined to death already. It's watchable - there are a few good episodes - but it won't bring anything new to the table.

Perfect description of Voyager and DS9 IS on Netflix OP.

 

[LakeEarth]

I think a lot of the Voyager hate comes from the unrealized potential of the show's concept. The first couple of seasons touched upon this (new aliens, resource management issues, mixed crew in-fighting) but most of it is forgotten after a while.

 

[industrian]

I somehow missed this all these years. Fantastic.

I watched TNG when I was a kid and didn't notice a lot of stuff like this.

 

[Sephzilla]

I think a lot of the Voyager hate comes from the unrealized potential of the show's concept. The first couple of seasons touched upon this (new aliens, resource management issues, mixed crew in-fighting) but most of it is forgotten after a while.

Along with that stuff, Voyager also has the worst written captain in the franchise. Janeway is someone who, within the logic of the franchise's universe, should have never made it to the captain's chair with how inconsistent and irrational she is. Ironically, she's perfect corrupt Admiral material.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

Along with that stuff, Voyager also has the worst written captain in the franchise. Janeway is someone who, within the logic of the franchise's universe, should have never made it to the captain's chair with how inconsistent and irrational she is. Ironically, she's perfect corrupt Admiral material.

Yeah after Rodenberry leaving and the success of the more militaristic DS9 Star Trek really went into a schizophrenic death spiral of increased grittiness mixed with the old idealism.

 

[hobblygobbly]

Along with that stuff, Voyager also has the worst written captain in the franchise. Janeway is someone who, within the logic of the franchise's universe, should have never made it to the captain's chair with how inconsistent and irrational she is. Ironically, she's perfect corrupt Admiral material.

Janeway is what ruined Voyager for me entirely. I'm not sure if it was ever due to bad writing or 100% intentional. Either way, it being intentional just doesn't suit Star Trek any ways in my opinion. You could probably have such a character as a form of an antagonist or something and did some sort of plot surrounding that if you want a show to explore out of the box with Star Trek. I think with better writing though they could've made Janeway an actual anti-hero which could've actually been interesting as well. Anti-heroes can carry a show very well, Gaius Baltar in BSG for example. Janeway was the real sore thumb of that show.

 

[dragonyeuw]

Along with that stuff, Voyager also has the worst written captain in the franchise. Janeway is someone who, within the logic of the franchise's universe, should have never made it to the captain's chair with how inconsistent and irrational she is. Ironically, she's perfect corrupt Admiral material.

I have to admit I twitched when I saw 'Admiral' Janeway giving orders to Picard in Nemesis.

 

[DrForester]

Along with that stuff, Voyager also has the worst written captain in the franchise. Janeway is someone who, within the logic of the franchise's universe, should have never made it to the captain's chair with how inconsistent and irrational she is. Ironically, she's perfect corrupt Admiral material.

Not to defend Janeway, but I'd still put her above Archer. Janeway at least occasionally had her moments. Archer was just outright incompetent.

 

[jb1234]

Along with that stuff, Voyager also has the worst written captain in the franchise. Janeway is someone who, within the logic of the franchise's universe, should have never made it to the captain's chair with how inconsistent and irrational she is. Ironically, she's perfect corrupt Admiral material.

It's interesting because despite how badly written she was, I always found the character very watchable. Kate Mulgrew really deserves more credit than she gets.

(As opposed to say, Scott Bakula, a terrific actor who was never really able to make Archer a charismatic character.)

 

[Fox Mulder]

I keep hearing that Star Trek: Voyager is....unwatchable. If it's true, how so?

It's not, just has some shit episodes and fails to fully utilize its concept. Not surprising the show runner later expanded on the ideas with BSG.

I know people that really love it, but it's best saved for later after you see some of the other series.

 

[jb1234]

It's not, just has some shit episodes and fails to fully utilize its concept. Not surprising the show runner later expanded on the ideas with BSG.

Ron Moore had very little to do with Voyager.

 

[Robert Williams]

Go back and watch Season 1, specifically "Conspiracy". You can't miss the following:

- Stop motion bug aliens crawling into people's ears.
- Riker high kicking an old man in the face
- Riker and Picard exploding a man's head with their phasers.

Conspiracy is one of the most un-TNG TNG eps I've ever watched. It's worth it purely for the bizarre spectacle.

I am sad that those aliens never ever showed up again in TNG (or in any other series).

Anyway, once you get to Season 3, you're in for some great eps. I do feel like TNG relied too heavily on the "weird thing happens to the crew of the Enterprise!" plots (and it's more noticeable when you marathon the series), but they're still fun.

"Conspiracy" is my favorite star trek.

 

[IAmRandom31]

I started binge watching this awhile ago and man the first time Warf did his little roar thing I couldn't stop laughing for 5 minutes. Was so bad.

 

[AgeEighty]

DS9 IS on netflix

Yeah, I don't get why people keep saying it isn't. Countries outside the US, perhaps?

It's on Amazon Prime, too.

 

[soco]

My view of Dr Pulaski has changed a lot over the years. As a person, I like Dr Crusher much better. However, Dr Crusher as a character only really made made very few episodes interesting. Her biggest contribution was similar to Troi, in that they were adding more of a human perspective to many of the conversations.

Pulaski, however, was part of this second season push to challenge a lot of ethical issues about Data, and ultimately make him seem more human. In general, I came to appreciate the way she pushed the other characters. It was a very different way of adding humanity to the rest of the cast.

 

[soco]

Yeah, I don't get why people keep saying it isn't. Countries outside the US, perhaps?

It's on Amazon Prime, too.

Depending on the device you watch it on, the Prime version is better quality. The Netflix version, unless they fixed it recently, is interlaced and looks terrible when scaled on devices that don't properly deinterlace it (xbox360).

 

[Krejlooc]

Deep Space 9 was everything I hated about space sci-fi dramas - trying to be dark and gritty and have long story arcs about battles I don't give a damn about. Everything I loved about TNG - the sense of exploration, how the enterprise was supposed to be this pinnacle achievement of mankind exploring space in the name of arts and science as opposed to a dingy space station used to fight proxy wars, the "peace over war" mantra - was thrown out the window.

TNG -> Dragonball, DS9 -> Dragonball Z.

 

[Not]

Not a foolproof idea skipping S1, OP. Tasha Yar is a great fucking character

 

[AgeEighty]

Depending on the device you watch it on, the Prime version is better quality. The Netflix version, unless they fixed it recently, is interlaced and looks terrible when scaled on devices that don't properly deinterlace it (xbox360).

Agreed. I've been watching recently on Prime and the quality is fairly good for SD. Man, do I ever wish those Blu-ray remasters would happen, though.

Deep Space 9 was everything I hated about space sci-fi dramas - trying to be dark and gritty and have long story arcs about battles I don't give a damn about. Everything I loved about TNG - the sense of exploration, how the enterprise was supposed to be this pinnacle achievement of mankind exploring space in the name of arts and science as opposed to a dingy space station used to fight proxy wars, the "peace over war" mantra - was thrown out the window.

TNG -> Dragonball, DS9 -> Dragonball Z.

You're way off base about several things here.

One, DS9 was never trying to be "dark and gritty"; even during its most dramatic periods there were always plenty of light moments and comedy. I would argue that Voyager was far guiltier of this, especially during the "Year of Hell" episodes and anything to do with the Borg and Species 8472. There was more character drama, but it's wrong to conflate that with "grittiness". And good quality character drama was one thing I always felt was missing from TNG. I loved the cast, sure, but several of its main characters were rarely given anything to do but deliver expository technobabble.

Two, at no point did DS9 throw the vision of Star Trek out the window, unless you believe that the wars against the Klingons and Romulans back during the Original Series did the same. The Federation was meant to be a utopia, but its rival space empires never were. War has always been a staple of the series, or else there'd be no show. Nor were the principles of Starfleet ever broken during the series. The closest DS9 came to this were the Maquis defections—which started in TNG, not DS9—and Section 31, but even that I would argue is barely a smudge on what the Federation represents.

I vehemently disagree that TNG and DS9 were polar opposites of one another; I think they dovetailed quite nicely. And it's certainly possible to enjoy both for what they did. I'm glad there was a series that explored a different side of life in the Federation, rather than just another one that tried to re-do TNG with a slight twist and much worse writing (Voyager).

 

[Error]

PSA: TNG is in HD on Netflix, watching first season now. Thank you based netflix.