Vane_MagicCity
Banned
So why not dual analog? The game supports the CPP but not dual analog, that's crazy since the main purpose of the CPP's existence is dual analog.
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In defence of Kid Icarus's Controls. Sakurai: "You doing it wrong."
- Thread starter chickdigger802
- Start date
So why not dual analog? The game supports the CPP but not dual analog, that's crazy since the main purpose of the CPP's existence is dual analog.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
Again: why haven't people with this attitude been griping that Microsoft won't let them play every Xbox shooter with KB/M since that is "obviously the standard for playing shooters" according to the expert gamers?
This is kind of a conspiratorial stretch. The context in the Iwata Asks made it sound as if Aonuma's team was not equipped to use M+ well, and considered dropping it. And the Wii Sports members were brought in to share design knowledge and tech. The jaunty phrasing from the Eguchi is the typical stuff you hear from Japanese developers relating their stories.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Hahahaha honestly I'm slowly starting to say: "Hey, it's Vane", but I feel generous.
Good thing the developer didn't say that!
Actually I agree on options - I was just simply laughing at your stance on how dual sticks are somehow magically superior (especially that attempt to make "one side" sound so innocent). Of course, I can see the posts changing into "how come I can't win with dual analog set-up" and such. But hey!
Good thing the developer didn't say that!
Actually I agree on options - I was just simply laughing at your stance on how dual sticks are somehow magically superior (especially that attempt to make "one side" sound so innocent). Of course, I can see the posts changing into "how come I can't win with dual analog set-up" and such. But hey!
Alright let's put this to bed already. If you aren't holding it like this:
you're doing it wrong.
No stand, no legs, just stick the bottom-right corner of the system in your right palm, so it rests on the bottom-left corner of your palm. Curl stylus around to success. This is how I played Metroid Prime Hunters, and it works just as fine for Kid Icarus.
(Warning: may not work with baby-hands.)
You don't need to wrap all your remaining fingers around the stylus.
I just use my thumb and index finger.
As the numerous user pictures in this thread show, you don't need the stand. I play with the stylus controls, I play holding the system in front of my face without the stand, I play with 3D all the way up, and it plays just fine. The controls are wonderful. If you need to balance the system, rest it on your palm, your pinky or hell, even your leg. This isn't rocket science, for chrisssakes. It took longer to learn and grow comfortable with dual analog back in the day than it did this control scheme, and this control scheme is functionally superior, absolutely.
Much ado about nothing, I say, and people skipping because of this overblown bullshit are missing a modern-day Nintendo classic packed full of fantastic characters, moments and awesome production values. Instead they should open their mind and not expect to be a master of a new scheme right from the first minute. Then they can actually ease themselves into learning the game's unique rhythm and see just awesome the controls are, which is to say VERY awesome. Hell, sometimes I boot up the game for the sheer joy of moving the camera, it's that fun.
And word to the wise: Max out horizontal and vertical aiming speed on land and in the air, and max out reticule stopping speed. You barely need to "swipe" the screen in this fashion. Super-precise for righties and lefties. Easy. Effortless. And then the ground game will begin to show its depth, especially in multiplayer, which is incredibly addictive, btw.
Much ado about nothing, I say, and people skipping because of this overblown bullshit are missing a modern-day Nintendo classic packed full of fantastic characters, moments and awesome production values. Instead they should open their mind and not expect to be a master of a new scheme right from the first minute. Then they can actually ease themselves into learning the game's unique rhythm and see just awesome the controls are, which is to say VERY awesome. Hell, sometimes I boot up the game for the sheer joy of moving the camera, it's that fun.
And word to the wise: Max out horizontal and vertical aiming speed on land and in the air, and max out reticule stopping speed. You barely need to "swipe" the screen in this fashion. Super-precise for righties and lefties. Easy. Effortless. And then the ground game will begin to show its depth, especially in multiplayer, which is incredibly addictive, btw.
I don't get it.
You complain that IN THEORY you THINK Nintendo forced developers to do something they didn't want to do with the control scheme.
You're also very upset that Sakurai wasn't interested in precisely what you want from the control scheme in his game and... wish Nintendo had forced him to include it?
Baller. PhD
Banned
The one that came with the system. If the game needs to be played with something else then that should have been included in the box along with the stand.
If you need several accessories to properly control a game without pain...
Nope. Sorry. Other people can do it. You can't. Learn how they do it and do it. Failure's on you.
UncleSporky
Member
SolarKnight
Member
Did you miss his quote about that same subject that was posted in this thread?
Vane_MagicCity
Banned
Saying something six times convinces me.
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
I need a full sized stylus to play ANYTHING on the DS. Again, I have large hands. Instead of bitching and moaning in this thread, why don't you just say "hey, that's not a bad idea. Thanks thetrin!"
Why shake your fist at people who will never meet or listen to you, when you can just fix the fucking problem and MOVE ON WITH YOUR LIFE.
EmCeeGramr
Member
Well pointing out more relevant historical precedent before didn't seem to grab your attention because it got in the way of your conspiracy theory.
(also what I posted six times was fact, not opinion, so there's nothing to "convince" you of there)
Vane_MagicCity
Banned
I never said I wished Nintendo had forced him to use dual analog.
Karsticles
Member
You make it sound like it's possible to disagree without being ignorant.
If you don't think you can play Kid Icarus without the stylus, then you are either ignorant, or a moron for ignoring the facts that people are feeding you.
That's how I felt when I played Mario the first time. I was like "what is this running and jumping crap? Why isn't the game playing for me like it should be?"
Video games involve a bit of effort, even a bit of work. This is the case for every single good video game ever made.
Baller. PhD
Banned
Oh I see. I guess I missed the part where I was supposed to have to work for my fucking entertainment. I mean Jesus, have you guys forgotten why you play games in the first place?
But I guess I'm just a big baby!
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
Also, one other thing:
The existence of this thread (and those like it) proves KI:U is fundamentally flawed in the same way that six years of gamers bitching all over the Internet about the Wii proves motion controls are inherently bad and never should have been invented.
Take that as you will.
The existence of this thread (and those like it) proves KI:U is fundamentally flawed in the same way that six years of gamers bitching all over the Internet about the Wii proves motion controls are inherently bad and never should have been invented.
Take that as you will.
I love you guys. But this is crazy:
My pinky, joint and wrist all hurt just looking at that.
your pinky is the strongest finger in your hands. Doing this also makes it so you're 'lifting' half the weight from both sides instead of pulling down on the edge. Main reason why people complain of wrist pain when they're grabbing only w/ one hand is because they're essentially making their holding hand the fulcrum of a long bar. Should have learned on the first physics/statics class that that's an inefficient way to keep mass balanced.
Okay, so then you're fine with dual analog not being in the game and don't wish to force its inclusion. Cool, problem solved!
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
I dunno. I just use the stand and a pen-sized stylus. No issues here. Then again, I usually play at my desk. I can see why the stand would piss people off, but the game DOES come with a free stand. It's not like it costs extra.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
It did make you notice it.
What the fuck? So if a group of people on a message board complains that Dark Souls is an excruciatingly difficult game, then it is a failure of game design, right?
And why do I mention that game, because like Icarus, it takes a lot of time to master it, but some people will never do it and therefore they blame the game.
Oni Link 666
Member
It's amazing how almost 2 months later people are still arguing about the controls.
Also, I think it's quite disrespectful to put quotation marks around something Sakurai didn't actually say.
Also, I think it's quite disrespectful to put quotation marks around something Sakurai didn't actually say.
Vane_MagicCity
Banned
No really, I am convinced that some developers are arrogant enough to screw up the controls so bad that they need to include another piece of hardware to make them work for everyone and then tell everyone that they are doing it wrong.
I no longer believe Nintendo forced this control scheme, that gets Nintendo off the hook. I do believe that Nintendo has forced the control schemes in the last three Zelda games but that's a different topic.
As others have said, having the stand as a pack in is admitting the controls aren't very good and having a pack in stand for a handheld game. That is insane but atleast Nintendo is off the hook.
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
No, you see, because no one should work for their entertainment. Everything should be given to us.
Vane_MagicCity
Banned
Sure, I won't be buying it so fuck it. Isn't it interesting though that YOU are offended that people want that OPTION?
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Exactly.
By that logic pretty much every video game out there are all failures of game design.
The amount of emotions and hyperbole this thread has released is worth the spectacle though.
Vane_MagicCity
Banned
5+ years after the Wii launched, people still don't like motion controls. Now that 2 months doesn't seem like much time does it.
UncleSporky
Member
I like how since the complainers are so dead set on the stand being an admission of horrible controls, yet the stand is not required for comfortable play, they're essentially arguing that a free bonus should not have been given out so as not to admit how bad the game is.
I earnestly believe that there'd be 50% less bitching if no stand had been included. People would've dealt with it and enjoyed the best game Nintendo's put out in years.
I earnestly believe that there'd be 50% less bitching if no stand had been included. People would've dealt with it and enjoyed the best game Nintendo's put out in years.
SolarKnight
Member
How is the stand proof of anything in the first place? Honestly, I've never even seen it as anything other than just Nintendo trying to please a vocal group of people that were complaining about their game without having even played it.
Seconded
Vane_MagicCity
Banned
I see it differently. You know what a conservative company Nintendo is. They don't just throw in stuff for free for no reason. Hell, the Pokewalker costed an extra $5.
I don't have a XBOX, but If I had you would see me being the first to complain about that.
The problem with KI:I isn't the game, I think the controls are better suited for the simplistic and fast paced type of game that KI:U is. The controls are not confortable to be played without a specific position or without the stand.
And confort is a big deal for me. If my hand cramps because the 3DS has a shitty form to play these kind of games, I prefer not even playing. I didn't played any of the games that used a similar control scheme on the DS.
If they provided a popular control scheme (Dual Analog), you wouldn't be seeing most of these complaints here. There are people who don't care about being the best on the game, they just want to play it the way they like it.
chickdigger802
Banned
It was the stand that was the issue????
I thought we were suppose to wrap the trading cards around our finger and the stand to make it comfortable!
Ah darn.
Oni Link 666
Member
I don't think the controls of a system should be compared to the controls of a single game. KIU has a bunch of options to play with, and if you didn't find something you could use then you should have just moved on. All this arguing about CPP and shit was old before the game even came out. This is the second time Sakurai has said they didn't have time to support it and people are still going on about it.
Vane_MagicCity
Banned
That would have to be part of the patch. You patch the game to accomadate certain controls and that includes slowing it down if necessary and it's something they could have done when they added the CPP support in the first place.
I'm offended by the lack of consistency in your argument.
Either you think Nintendo is badgering developers into doing things they don't want to do or you think developers should be badgered into doing things you want.
Or you think Sakurai was forced to design a game around a control style he didn't want, allowed to include alternatives, but prevented from including one particular alternative that he desperately wanted but was forbidden from using.
But that would be crazy, and so I'm confused.
It's possible that maybe Sakurai made the game he wanted to make and you aren't happy with that. It's fine if you don't like it or want to buy it, but it's weird to criticize Nintendo because you assume they might be telling developers what they should and shouldn't do with controls when that is precisely what you are definitely doing.
Vane_MagicCity
Banned
...and yet the CPP is supported.
Do tell me why we can't compare the controls of a system to the controls of a game.
MikeE21286
Member
el oh el Sakurai
just be quiet, the controls are obtuse at best.
just be quiet, the controls are obtuse at best.
SolarKnight
Member
No? They already have about 100 difficulty levels, if they want to slow the game down, then choose a lower level >__>
Isn't the game playable with the face buttons (A, B, X, Y)? I mean, you can control the aim with these, right?
Do you see these people complaining?
UncleSporky
Member
Well whatever you think, I'll take the opposite stance.
All that work because of dual analog zealots? Can't say it seems like a good use of resources tbh.
50% less bitching.. Come on man, this isn't you. With or without the stand things just weren't ideal.
Baller. PhD
Banned
1. I buy entertainment product
2. Using entertainment product causes me physical pain, though it is not intended to do so.
3. It must be me who's fucked up, not the entertainment product.
Makes sense!
For the record I like the Kid Icarus overall and am on about mission 15 I believe. I play for about half hour every night before I go to bed. The game is clever and I love the witty writing. But ugh, my right hand hurts so fucking bad after just a little playtime. Saying that I should just "suck it up" and stop complaining is absolutely ridiculous. The second that Sakurai realized that sitting at a table and using and extra stand is the most comfortable way to play the game, red flags should have been shooting in the air. The control scheme is unnatural and it hurts my hand. That's really all there is to it.
2. Using entertainment product causes me physical pain, though it is not intended to do so.
3. It must be me who's fucked up, not the entertainment product.
Makes sense!
For the record I like the Kid Icarus overall and am on about mission 15 I believe. I play for about half hour every night before I go to bed. The game is clever and I love the witty writing. But ugh, my right hand hurts so fucking bad after just a little playtime. Saying that I should just "suck it up" and stop complaining is absolutely ridiculous. The second that Sakurai realized that sitting at a table and using and extra stand is the most comfortable way to play the game, red flags should have been shooting in the air. The control scheme is unnatural and it hurts my hand. That's really all there is to it.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
So I guess I can take it that the OP title is just for fishing replies? Comments like this are hilarious though.
To which you go back to your argument of "the game should have been made with dual analog in mind". Stuff like that just doesn't get *fingersnap* patch like some sort of magic.
The CCP was more for lefties actually. They're pretty much dead-set in giving that control scheme.
Vane_MagicCity
Banned
Let me clarify for you.
The controls suck and that is a matter of opinion but it is shared by enough people that Sakurai had to tell everyone that they are doing it wrong.
The stand is proof that someone at Nintendo or Sora knew the controls were problematic.
Nintendo has forced touch and motion controls into their own games, this is a Nintendo game (Sora is majority owned by Nintendo and they also published) so I theorized that maybe they forced the control scheme here. I have since changed my mind about that. However, I do believe that dual analog should have been added to this game and it wasn't Nintendo who refused to do it, but Sakurai.
I truly don't understand this attitude that Nintendo would never tell it's own devs what control scheme to use. Who do you work for to that you don't get orders from higher up?
Oni Link 666
Member
I think you know I meant CPP support for dual analog controls.
I didn't say you can't. You can go ahead and compare them. I said they shouldn't be compared, because I think it's pretty dumb. If you want to play most games on Wii, you have to use motion controls. KIU is just one game, you can skip it and play other 3DS games if you want. One game isn't ruining the control scheme of the rest of the library.