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[stupei]

1. I buy entertainment product
2. Using entertainment product causes me physical pain, though it is not intended to do so.
3. It must be me who's fucked up, not the entertainment product.

Makes sense!

For the record I like the Kid Icarus overall and am on about mission 15 I believe. I play for about half hour every night before I go to bed. The game is clever and I love the witty writing. But ugh, my right hand hurts so fucking bad after just a little playtime. Saying that I should just "suck it up" and stop complaining is absolutely ridiculous. The second that Sakurai realized that sitting at a table and using and extra stand is the most comfortable way to play the game, red flags should have been shooting in the air. The control scheme is unnatural and it hurts my hand. That's really all there is to it.

If you read the article, Sakurai's advice for people whose hands are cramping is that they might be pressing too hard. Not trying to be a dick, but is it possible that's the case? He also advises lighter, flicking movements.

I honestly think his statements weren't intended as, "Suck it up and deal with it, babies," but rather that the game was designed in a certain style and to be played a particular way, so knowing these things might make it more approachable for those who are finding it uncomfortable. Maybe you're already trying those things and it doesn't work for you, but just a suggestion. I know the instinct when first playing the game is to press down on the screen since that's kind of the case with a lot of touch screen heavy games. (Hence why a lot of rhythm games have ruined a lot of screens.)

 

[DocTarHeel]

Thread title is a bit misleading with the quotation marks.

The quote from Sakurai seemed a little off to me. Maybe something was missed in translation, but I've never heard of anyone's stylus-holding hand getting tired from playing the game, but it seems like that is the assumption of Sakurai in the quote. The hand that supports the system is the one that gets fatigued, not the one holding the stylus.

 

[Kokonoe]

Thread title is a bit misleading with the quotation marks.

The quote from Sakurai seemed a little off to me. Maybe something was missed in translation, but I've never heard of anyone's stylus-holding hand getting tired from playing the game, but it seems like that is the assumption of Sakurai in the quote. The hand that supports the system is the one that gets fatigued, not the one holding the stylus.

Actually, It was both for me. I remedied the left hand by using the Hori Wheel controller, but the stylus created discomfort for how you play, for me personally.

Honestly, I myself thought people were exaggerating about the control setup. It was only until I tried it myself with multiple different configurations that I realized this isn't comfortable for me.

 

[Vane_MagicCity]

I didn't say you can't. You can go ahead and compare them. I said they shouldn't be compared, because I think it's pretty dumb. If you want to play most games on Wii, you have to use motion controls. KIU is just one game, you can skip it and play other 3DS games if you want. One game isn't ruining the control scheme of the rest of the library.

Maybe people are complaining to ensure that most 3DS games don't end up with these controls, like most Wii games ended up with motion controls.

 

[Mlatador]

1. I buy entertainment product
2. Using entertainment product causes me physical pain, though it is not intended to do so.
3. It must be me who's fucked up, not the entertainment product.

Makes sense!

For the record I like the Kid Icarus overall and am on about mission 15 I believe. I play for about half hour every night before I go to bed. The game is clever and I love the witty writing. But ugh, my right hand hurts so fucking bad after just a little playtime. Saying that I should just "suck it up" and stop complaining is absolutely ridiculous. The second that Sakurai realized that sitting at a table and using and extra stand is the most comfortable way to play the game, red flags should have been shooting in the air. The control scheme is unnatural and it hurts my hand. That's really all there is to it.

Have you tried using the MK7 wheel? I've heard it helps.

 

[SolarKnight]

like most Wii games ended up with motion controls.

You mean the controls the console was made for in the first place?

 

[Laughing Banana]

Maybe people are complaining to ensure that most 3DS don't end up with these controls, like most Wii games ended up with motion controls.

For someone that "didn't bother picking this game up" you sure do have a lot of things to say about it.

 

[Busaiku]

The quote from Sakurai seemed a little off to me. Maybe something was missed in translation, but I've never heard of anyone's stylus-holding hand getting tired from playing the game, but it seems like that is the assumption of Sakurai in the quote. The hand that supports the system is the one that gets fatigued, not the one holding the stylus.

This is the main problem with people that complain about their hands hurting.

Support the system with both hands!
It will make playing much simpler and far more comfortable.

 

[Neiteio]

For someone that "didn't bother picking this game up" you sure do have a lot of things to say about it.

 

[Vane_MagicCity]

You mean the controls the console was made for in the first place?

That alot of people hate, yes, that's them.

 

[Maedhros]

Isn't the game playable with the face buttons (A, B, X, Y)? I mean, you can control the aim with these, right?

Do you see these people complaining?

Quoting because I didn't see an answer.

 

[Anteo]

I'm here to tell you that me, someone who had never played a Shooter in a Dual Screen setup, got the Ground controls as soon as I landed in the first chapter. So yes Sakurai, they are doing it wrong.

After finishing that stage I couldn't belive how can people struggle with it. And I played it on my way home on the car (my dad was kind enough to pick me up that day)

 

[Vane_MagicCity]

For someone that "didn't bother picking this game up" you sure do have a lot of things to say about it.

Yeah, you're right.

The controls are great and this game is the best game ever made.

There, everyone happy?

 

[Lonely1]

Yeah, you're right.

The controls are great and this game is the best game ever made.

There, everyone happy?

I am, this game is awesome.

 

[Ysiadmihi]

Maybe people are complaining to ensure that most 3DS don't end up with these controls, like most Wii games ended up with motion controls.

I'm sure it goes no deeper than people wanting everything to be dual analog because they don't want to stop believing that it's the be-all end-all of control schemes.

 

[DocTarHeel]

Quoting because I didn't see a answer.

Yea, you can move the reticle with ABXY, though I personally never tried it.

 

[dreamer3kx]

I tried playing this on the go today and failed, have to play sitting down on comfy couch with 3ds pretty much on stomach.

 

[Vane_MagicCity]

I'm sure it goes no deeper than people wanting everything to be dual analog because they don't want to stop believing that dual analog is the be-all end-all of control schemes.

That must be it but we all know that touch controls are superior and the sooner everyone realizes that and we can get rid of buttons and analog sticks, the better off we will all be.

 

[Lonely1]

That must be it but we all know that touch controls are superior and the sooner everyone realizes that and we can get rid of buttons and analog sticks, the better off we will all be.

Lol, strawman much?

 

[Thoraxes]

I never have any hand fatigue while playing, and I never use the stand.

You can't poop and play with the stand.

 

[The Technomancer]

That must be it but we all know that touch controls are superior and the sooner everyone realizes that and we can get rid of buttons and analog sticks, the better off we will all be.

Dude what? For this specific game buttons and a stick complemented by a touch screen are better then two sticks. There is no-one here saying that touch controls are universally superior, or even that Kid Icarus shouldn't have used buttons. So, in summary,

 

[Maedhros]

Yea, you can move the reticle with ABXY, though I personally never tried it.

So why dual analog can't be implemented? I know that some people play it that way, are these people complaining the game is too hard/impossible to play?

 

[Laughing Banana]

Yeah, you're right.

The controls are great and this game is the best game ever made.

There, everyone happy?

I will be sure to follow your example of entering threads about games I haven't played or tried yet and then make dozens of complaining posts about them. That would be swell, don't you think? Especially when everyone else is doing the same.

I am sure NeoGAF would become a much better place if everyone is doing that.

LOL, only when I am being sarcastic. I'll be serious now.

Anyway, I concede that most people here like the controls well enough and that everything I said about this game is 100% wrong.

What a bloody drama queen.

 

[Vane_MagicCity]

Lol, strawman much?

LOL, only when I am being sarcastic. I'll be serious now.

Anyway, I concede that most people here like the controls well enough and that everything I said about this game is 100% wrong.

 

[Electivirus]

You can't poop and play with the stand.

Clearly, you haven't really tried!

 

[massoluk]

I play this game on the subway standing with my back against the wall just fine. Use both hands to hold the 3DS people, right hand pinky under your 3DS.

 

[Kokonoe]

I don't see how you could think that DA wouldn't be worse for the game unless you only played the first couple of stages. The pace just requires the spinning camera and fast aiming of the stylus. I mean that honestly, I don't understand where you're coming from.

The setup causes me discomfort, therefore it is not quite optimal for me. And as stated above, there is a configuration that's similar to dual analog sticks. I was able to shoot fine, buttons were uncomfortable as well though.

So why dual analog can't be implemented? I know that some people play it that way, are these people complaining the game is too hard/impossible to play?

I don't understand either.

 

[CrunchyFrog]

I still don't understand why Nintendo stopped including these standard with all ds systems:

I logged so many hours of MPHunters using that thing, worked perfectly, no need for crab claw nonsense.

 

[Anonymous Tipster]

Thread title is ludicrous, as not only is that not a quote, but it implies a combative tone that couldn't be further from that of the article.

Pretty lame, OP.

 

[Thoraxes]

Clearly, you haven't really tried!

Challenge accepted.

 

[Vane_MagicCity]

I will be sure to follow your example of entering threads about games I haven't played or tried yet and then make dozens of complaining posts about them. That would be swell, don't you think? Especially when everyone else is doing the same.

I am sure NeoGAF would become a much better place if everyone is doing that.



What a bloody drama queen.

Drama queen?

I am simply admitting to being wrong. If you think I am doing it for attention, then don't us both a favor and don't draw attention to it.

You ever been wrong? You ever been man enough to admit it?

 

[Mlatador]

That alot of people hate, yes, that's them.

A lot of people who have become too fucking lazy to adapt to things and try. God forbid you have to tweek some settings here and there to make it work nicely, even if it means you miss out on a superior gaming experience (in the case of some Wii FPS for example).

Even if you play Kid Icarus offline only, the game is designed to be used with the stylus. The Enemies are fast, and the game just controls better, which means, you as a gamer, once you've practices a litte, will have much better control of the character you're playing. Aiming is way smoother, faster and much more precise. Why would anyone not prefer that??

 

[GrotesqueBeauty]

I haven't played the full game, but I strongly disliked the control scheme during the demo. I consider the fact that it comes with a stand a tacit admission that the control scheme is at odds with the way 3DS is designed. It also says something when a developer has to explain the most basic elements of how to play their game. As a portable game I see there being a number of problems. A big one is that playing the game on the go without a stable base requires supporting the system with one hand while applying pressure to it from the opposite direction with the other hand. While it's nice that stylus controls mean aiming is speedy and intuitive, the overall ergonomics of it are a result of bad design imo. Sure, you can play in a certain setting with the system set up a certain way and achieve good results after practicing, but that doesn't seem very practical or accessible for a portable game. Also, there was no reason that KI had to be a shooter to begin with. It sort of bugs me that the franchise finally got rebooted, but with a genre swap. Kinda frustrating, especially since Sakurai obviously has the chops to make a great platformer with shooter elements but decided to go off on a tangent. The other bummer is that even if you give credit to KI for its strengths, the fact remains it would have worked just as well (probably better) on Wii. The IR pointer is just as deft as a stylus, and the ergonomics are about a million times better.

And the Smash Bros comparison is bad imo. It's comparing game designelements to control input. I never had a problem with Smash Bros. mechanically, even before I wrapped my head around its play style. Sure, it can take some retraining if you're used to traditional fighters like SF and MK, but not because holding the controller feels awkward and unintuitive.

 

[Ysiadmihi]

I still don't understand why Nintendo stopped including these standard with all ds systems:

http://i.imgur.com/xtrpW.jpg

I logged so many hours of MPHunters using that thing, worked perfectly, no need for crab claw nonsense.

It was incredible for aiming (seriously, Hunters is the best controlling FPS I have played that isn't on PC) but goddamn did it scratch screens terribly. I'm pretty sure that's why they stopped including it.

A stylus that you can wrap around your thumb works almost as good though.

 

[Vane_MagicCity]

A lot of people who have become too fucking lazy to adapt to things and try. God forbid you have to tweek some settings here and there to make it work nicely, even if it means you miss out on a superior gaming experience (in the case of some Wii FPS for example).

Even if you play Kid Icarus offline only, the game is designed to be used with the stylus. The Enemies are fast, and the game just controls better, which means, you as a gamer, once you've practices a litte, will have much better control of the character you're playing. Aiming is way smoother, faster and much more precise. Why would anyone not prefer that??

Well see, with the Wii I have to play with the curtains drawn because sunlight messes up the motion controls. I like sunlight so I don't care for that restriction. See, it isn't just about telling it that the sensor bar is "Below the TV" or turning the sensitivity up, it's about having to close the curtains on a nice, sunny day.

 

[TyRaNtM]

If technically, you are able to play with both Circle Pad as cursor and move the character (but in separate configurations), now with the latest 3DS firmware, they can just do a DLC in this game, just to able to play with both Circle Pad to move the character with one Circle Pad and the cursor with the other, and viceversa in the same configuration.
I don't know why IGN didn't asked this.

 

[sml_x]

Lots of hate in here for the stand, but personally it saved the game for me.

I'm a lefty, and I wrestled through the first 5 levels without the stand. The flying sections were awesome, and not that difficult control-wise, but the ground sections were so aggravating that I put the game down and just figured that it wasn't for me. Hand pain was part of it, but more annoying was that the system was moving around so much that I was constantly going back and forth between 3D and blurrytown. In the heat of battle you kind of deal with it, but cumulatively I think it just wore me down. Turning the 3D slider down felt like giving up, if that makes any sense.

A week later I tried it with the stand just for kicks and it was like I was playing an entirely different game. Now it's probably my favorite Nintendo game of the past few years.

Everybody is different, and for those who don't need the stand, more power to you. But for those on the fence, don't let it scare you away.

 

[Lonely1]

Well see, with the Wii I have to play with the curtains drawn because sunlight messes up the motion controls. I like sunlight so I don't care for that restriction. See, it isn't just about telling it that the sensor bar is "Below the TV" or turning the sensitivity up, it's about having to close the curtains on a nice, sunny day.

But I can't play with dual analog on my Ps3 because my Ps3 is downstairs and I'm up here. So, I guess stylus aiming has to do.

 

[vanty]

That someone's stylus hand can get hurt playing this blows my mind. What the fuck are you doing with your hands? Not sure about all this claw crap either, I hold the system in my left hand the same way I hold it playing any other game. Doing something different just for Kid Icarus doesn't make sense.

 

[Vane_MagicCity]

But I can't play with dual analog on my Ps3 because my Ps3 is downstairs and I'm up here. So, I guess stylus aiming has to do.

How does you putting your PS3 downstairs compare to Nintendo designing a system that can be interrupted by sunlight?

 

[Laughing Banana]

Drama queen?

I am simply admitting to being wrong. If you think I am doing it for attention, then don't us both a favor and don't draw attention to it.

You ever been wrong? You ever been man enough to admit it?

Alright, I apologize, because my impression of that post is that you are being unnecessarily dramatic for the sake of being dramatic.

Still, you complaining so much about a game that you yourself haven't played is... real silly.

 

[GrotesqueBeauty]

That someone's stylus hand can get hurt playing this blows my mind. What the fuck are you doing with your hands? Not sure about all this claw crap either, I hold the system in my left hand the same way I hold it playing any other game. Doing something different just for Kid Icarus doesn't make sense.

May I ask how old you are?

 

[chickdigger802]

Y'all just need to train like in sports. Add a weight on it and train those wrist muscles

Unless y'all telling me that sports suck if you don't get it right away ;P

 

[KenOD]

I have no problems myself with the controls. Spinning it like a globe, equating it to old arcade games that used trackballs , works for me as does the stand or laying it my knee as I'm sitting keeps it stable. It was uncomfortable when I was trying to grip the system like any standard DS/3DS game being played however and that lies my problems.

I just don't find the 3DS as a thing to hold on it's own all that great. It's easy to ignore for short play through and playing games as normal, but try anything different and it's problems (as I see them) just come out.

 

[bomma_man]

I refuse to play anything that doesn't let me use an intellivison controller.

Why won't someone think of traditional controls

 

[Vane_MagicCity]

Alright, I apologize, because my impression of that post is that you are being unnecessarily dramatic for the sake of being dramatic.

Still, you complaining so much about a game that you yourself haven't played is... real silly.

I go by the reviews and the complaints about the controls kept me from buying it. I have wasted too much money on bad games. I guess the reviewers may have been too critical because so many people here swear by the controls.

I won't buy it though until I rent it to try the controls for myself. This thread has been very educational.

I do still stand by what I said about Nintendo forcing the control scheme for the last 3 Zelda games and all three of those games will eventually be traded in. I love Zelda and so I have held on to them so far but sooner or later I will sell them. They will be the first Zelda games I have ever gotten rid of.

 

[Lonely1]

How does you putting your PS3 downstairs compare to Nintendo designing a system that can be interrupted by sunlight?

Because, unlike my 3DS, my Ps3 can't come up with me and Sony designed it that way.

 

[jokkir]

I still don't understand why Nintendo stopped including these standard with all ds systems:

I logged so many hours of MPHunters using that thing, worked perfectly, no need for crab claw nonsense.

I have no idea where mine went

 

[Tathanen]

I actually saw a video on the Nintendo channel about this. It may have been Iwata asks. This is the key part:

Obviously, Aonuma-san eventually came around and brought MotionPlus back into the game, but not without a little help from Katsuya Eguchi, developer of Wii Sports Resort. "Mr. Eguchi came to me and said, 'Look at all these things you can do with Motion Plus, why wouldn't you use this in a Zelda game? It would be strange not to!'"

He was being pushed to use motion controls. I have had this in mind throughout this whole thread. He didn't want them but was "pushed" into it. If he had refused, the pushing may have become an order.

Uh, let's go back to this for a second and be clear: at no time did Aonuma want to do Skyward Sword "without motion controls." The only sticking point was whether they would use MotionPlus or not. This is not a valid example to further your agenda.

 

[Vane_MagicCity]

Because, unlike my 3DS, my Ps3 can't come up with me and Sony designed it that way.

I still don't follow.