Beat the prototype last night, overall really enjoyed it. Obviously as everyone has stated there's a really steep learning curve and they throw a lot at you pretty quickly which makes it all worse, obviously this shouldn't be the problem in the final game. I do think it could do a better job of explaining the finer details. I had to figure out a lot on my own by randomly experimenting with the final boss (cause I couldn't beat it so I had to be missing something). There's a lot of depth here that I think is making the demo harder than it should be (what do you mean tiger girl has a healing super and the slow spell?) AKA it's not the good kind of hidden depth. That said, I just complained how it throws a lot at you at once and now I'm saying they should throw more, seems like a problem that can't be helped (in the demo).
Couple questions for Ravi whenever he wakes up.
Is it safe to assume that 3D models in the foreground are all super pre-alpha stuff, and the final game will look way better (like say for example all the outdoor parts)? I guess the 3D assets aren't terrible, I've seen worse, but when they're right next to the gorgeous 2D sprites it looks super jarring to me.
Will there be a move list in the final game? Cause y'know Lab Zero's track record and everything...
I do seriously think a move list would be useful in this game, but then remembering vanilla Skullgirls makes me chuckle
Lastly cause I did actually enjoy myself and I don't want to only be negative, I have to say everything with traversal and exploration was top notch right out of the gate. Dash was good; axe jumping took a second to get used to, but was insanely fun; and the wall jump is perfect, just perfect (tell Mike or whoever that if they change anything with that wall jump I will be super upset). Also while the battle system was obtuse, after about an hour I think I had it, and it is super fun. Also everything that was in 2D was exactly what I expect from Lab Zero, which everyone here knows is some of, if not the best. And the music definitely reminds me of Secret of Mana/SD3, which is good, cause those are some of the best soundtracks ever, and also it fits very well in this game. Also having support for so many controllers in the demo (ctrl+c, ctrl+v skullgirls tech) is very heartwarming when I think about how many huge AAA games can't even support a PS3 controller.
EDIT: As far as switching sides/buttons, that didn't bother me after I got a full party. It confused me a lot when there was only 2 or 3, but once the party was full it seemed fine, I thought of it like a fighting game, so instead of up, down, left, right; it's up, down, forward, backward which seems to be how it works. Do what you want to make it more accessible in the demo, but I actually like it as is.
Just give the option to choose which button corresponds to each character, and whether you want them to flip depending on the side you are coming from. By default you can have maybe you have Ajna on ⭕ running left to right, and then when running right to left put her on ⬜. Each character anr their UI would correspond with their location on the field and automatically flip based on direction.
But then have options to disable flipping if desired, or have a custom mapping of chatacters to and face button you want. That way you can't go wrong.
Tried out the demo. Nice hand drawn art for the characters and some backgrounds. The 3D art wasn't that appealing to me. The controls are good while exploring, and the strikes feel satisfying. The animations and effects are really well done. The music was nice too.
Now, on to the combat system, which I felt was a bit overwhelming. Haven't played Valkyrie Profile, so I don't have in-depth knowledge about this combat system. From playing this prototype, I found it difficult to judge which of my character was getting attacked, and I ended up holding all 4 buttons to defend (which was in itself tricky to do). When the boss does that instant group attack, esp with other enemies around, it is challenging to time the guard. Sometimes if you press the guard immediately as you see the yellow light, and slower monster will attack and I'd miss the timing for their attack.
I am also not sure if attacking together with characters makes any difference compared to attacking individually.
Of course, this is only after playing a quick session, so perhaps I'll get used to the battle system, and be able to read enemy attacks better. Not sure. Will see how this game progresses.
Well, it's super early alpha stuff that is more placeholder than anything
Now, on to the combat system, which I felt was a bit overwhelming. Haven't played Valkyrie Profile, so I don't have in-depth knowledge about this combat system. From playing this prototype, I found it difficult to judge which of my character was getting attacked, and I ended up holding all 4 buttons to defend (which was in itself tricky to do).
Most media outlets refrain from talking about running Kickstarter campaigns these days.There are just too many and there are so many uncertainties that you cant really give too much solid information. You, as a media outlet, are basically pitching another game to your readers that isn't even in full development yet and many outlets have decided to not do that anymore after last year. There are dozens of games actually coming out every month and it's almost impossible to keep track even with them - so they rather talk about those finished (or almost finished) games than spend time on talking about games that could maybe start development at some point.
There is a kickstarter campaign from a german developer for "The Dwarves" running right now and they didn't get a single mention in international media as far as I know. You just can't count on the media to help you pitch your game ideas anymore.
Most media outlets refrain from talking about running Kickstarter campaigns these days.There are just too many and there are so many uncertainties that you cant really give too much solid information. You, as a media outlet, are basically pitching another game to your readers that isn't even in full development yet and many outlets have decided to not do that anymore after last year. There are dozens of games actually coming out every month and it's almost impossible to keep track even with them - so they rather talk about those finished (or almost finished) games than spend time on talking about games that could maybe start development at some point.
There is a kickstarter campaign from a german developer for "The Dwarves" running right now and they didn't get a single mention in international media as far as I know. You just can't count on the media to help you pitch your game ideas anymore.
This is understandable, but with all the preparation Lab Zero have done for this project, this one really deserve an exposure. Ah well, this is sucks :/
Most media outlets refrain from talking about running Kickstarter campaigns these days.There are just too many and there are so many uncertainties that you cant really give too much solid information. You, as a media outlet, are basically pitching another game to your readers that isn't even in full development yet and many outlets have decided to not do that anymore after last year. There are dozens of games actually coming out every month and it's almost impossible to keep track even with them - so they rather talk about those finished (or almost finished) games than spend time on talking about games that could maybe start development at some point.
There is a kickstarter campaign from a german developer for "The Dwarves" running right now and they didn't get a single mention in international media as far as I know. You just can't count on the media to help you pitch your game ideas anymore.
Rock Paper Shotgun, Kotaku, Destructiod, Polygon, and other sites write about Kickstarters. For example, RPS did articles on Home Free, Everspace, and others
So after playing I actually think fights should be consistently on one side even more, lol. The difficulty is unnecessarily compounded by trying to figure out each char's moves in addition to their button placement switching. I was sort of getting used to it by the end. Little wonky with that.
Not sure you're supposed to be able to attack enemies after they die? Seemed like that might have been a bug, unsure.
As an additional thing, I would like to see when enemies are getting ready to attack, because right now I'm currently just waiting until they attack, blocking and then attacking. I think it would make my actions a bit more dynamic if I could see when they were able to attack so I can judge when to use my own attacks (without being able to see their gauge the same way I see my allies' gauges, it's hard to judge).
Yeah personally I think the best solution would be having the characters always be on the right side and the enemies always on on the left with the transition from the platforming simply being your characters quickly hopping into position. It will slow down the transition slightly, of course, but I feel like it's the only sensible solution compared to a visual mismatch of positions and buttons. Barring that, I would very much prefer having the same button correspond to the same character always.
Played through the demo again and had a much better time since I started using L1. Killed the boss the first time through, and my characters were at full health after the fight.
I noticed that I was paying all my attention towards the ATB bar, and some attention towards the yellow flash for when enemies were attacking. I feel this takes away from the experience of just enjoying the combat animations, the enemy animations, the moves, etc. Not sure if slowing down the ATB would help or not.
I will echo the part about fighting always on the same side. Coz currently, your character buttons change (Circle changes to Square etc), but your R1 and L1 stay the same. It's just confusing. Always fighting on the same side with the same configuration would make it a lot better.
I noticed that I was paying all my attention towards the ATB bar, and some attention towards the yellow flash for when enemies were attacking. I feel this takes away from the experience of just enjoying the combat animations, the enemy animations, the moves, etc. Not sure if slowing down the ATB would help or not.
Me too, maybe if there were more visual markers on the characters? I found eyes pretty much glued to the bottom side of the screen through most fights, which was a shame.
I backed this, and so can you! Whoever you are, reading this.
Really though, I got a chance to sit down and watch the trailer, and it looks really fun. I'm rooting for this to be a success, even if it looks a little rough right now.
Looks interesting, but I'll wait for the Linux prototype. The Linux version being released at a later unspecified date makes me a bit wary anyway. It's great if they do have a prototype for all platforms because that would mean they are actually already developing for all platforms, rather than porting the finished Windows version.
But will the final Linux/Mac/Windows versions release on the same day? Skullgirls for Linux only just released a week ago. I'm glad they brought it to Linux, but I'm not backing a project if I have to wait 2 years extra. I'll rather just get it when it's actually out on Linux.
After replaying it I must say I'm on the side of people that wants pause between turns. I mostly play RPG as a relaxing thing, taking time to prepare actions and stuff. So as fun as the battle system is in Indivisible, it requires me to be way too much concentrated. Checking who's gonna get hit needs you to have reactions, having timing not to miss my combos too. Adding life and meter management to the already demanding battle system feels there's too much and I wonder if long sessions (the way I play RPG most of the time) will not be too demanding?
I backed anyway because outside of this, I want to play this game and want you to succeed.
Loving the shape of the controller in the prototype. If only it had six face buttons.
Also pressing a key to restart the controller detection is genius. Too many times I had to restart a game because I forgot to plug the controller first. Infuriating when it takes like five minutes to load.
Can we nitpick at the prototype already? I liked how you could remap the controller buttons to who you see fit, but it only remaps the platformer gameplay. The combat phase should be remapped too. IE I'm using a Saturn controller and mapped Jump to C and Action to B, as it should be (and Action 3 and 4 to Y and Z), but during the combat the face buttons weren't in the same order as the heroes: the down (B) button activated the left hero, the right (C) button played the bottom hero, etc.
Also the axe to climb walls is cool, but dammit if it has a massive delay! I need to press Action as soon as I jump or else I will just miss the climb entirely.
Played through the prototype again this morning. I'll probably run through it a couple more times before the campaign is out. It's really fun, even nostalgic going back to the Valkyrie Profile battle system. It's been too long since a game used it.
Me too, maybe if there were more visual markers on the characters? I found eyes pretty much glued to the bottom side of the screen through most fights, which was a shame.
And... I don't think Up/Down work for selecting? For exactly the reason you specified. But I could be wrong. Possible it's just kind of confusing because the enemies are spread out in 3D and you have to select them only with left/right, giving the impression it's also moving up/down?
I'll check again later. Could just be me being a klutz because I was playing at 2am. Lol. Especially in larger groups, I had issues with the targeting staying on an enemy. Another reason could be that sometimes weaker enemies die mid-combo and I didn't notice so it resets to the main target. >_<
I would also say I really liked the semi- real time combat. I didn't feel the need to pause or anything like that. I just wish it was more obvious what was going on without turning to the UI.
Man I played the prototype and I'm not convinced. The combat is kind of tedious really. The indiegogo page says something doing combos using the different attacks but I have no idea what they're talking about. As far as I could tell, doing the up attacks did the most damage with no drawbacks so that's the only thing I ever used. If someone could explain to me what I'm missing here that would be swell.
EDIT: Also I'm not a fan of the "humor". Shaman lady says she's saving our butts. That's the kind of lame line that makes me feel like I'm not part of the target audience or something.
Targeting works with Left/Right buttons, and I don't really have problem with this control scheme. The problem is with restricting your targeting to only when you're not attacking. Perhaps they should let you set the target at any time you want. If people are committed, they can attack the previous target, while the people with new actions go toward the new target.
Ok, I finally had time to play through the whole prototype last night using a controller and it was really great. As I said before, the exploration feels great. I'm digging combat too, I'm even fine (and perhaps prefer) the buttons switching sides depending on how you approach so maybe make it something you can toggle? I was doing well until I got to the boss, then I got wrecked. I beat it in the end. Obviously the actual game isn't going to ramp up that fast, but I think it helped some identify some of the issues I had with the combat system.
Targeting enemies is difficult. I personally never had an issue where I targeted the wrong enemy, but in that boss fight everything is going so fast that even spending a second retargeting can be dangerous. Maybe try something like the Tales Of games, where you hold down a trigger which pauses the action while depressed and only allows you to change targets while its held. This would prevent people from accidentally targeting the wrong enemy while giving players the time to intelligently target.
I'll also agree with some of the other impressions that the whole fight I was watching my character's bars with one eye and trying to use the other to watch for enemy tells. I barely got to watch any of the animations during the boss fight. Regarding player character meters there needs to be a way to tell how many actions a character has by looking at them. Maybe a small dot over their head for each action? And I think enemies could really use something like an ATB bar. All too often I would go to attack only to find I'm blocking because one of the several enemies in the boss battle decided to attack. There's already an obvious way to tell when you're being attacked, but it happens so often and quickly in the boss battle it can be hard to know when you can actually attack. If there were something like ATB bars I could look and say, "Oh, there's five guys about to attack. Better hold off on trying any attacks until they finish."
I think an option that changes the meter speed for both enemies and allies is also a good idea and would make the game more accessible to RPG players who are usually more accustomed to having time to consider their moves.
As an artist, I really love the character designs much more than in skull girls. Going to try out the demo today and if I turn out to really like it, I might donate from 15 to 30 bucks. Also, how the hell did you get the composer from Secret of Mana?
Also the axe to climb walls is cool, but dammit if it has a massive delay! I need to press Action as soon as I jump or else I will just miss the climb entirely.
I'm not sure I get what you mean by this... You don't need to manually hit jump, though, you can just let go of the axe button and she'll go up, if that's what you're struggling with.
Man I played the prototype and I'm not convinced. The combat is kind of tedious really. The indiegogo page says something doing combos using the different attacks but I have no idea what they're talking about. As far as I could tell, doing the up attacks did the most damage with no drawbacks so that's the only thing I ever used. If someone could explain to me what I'm missing here that would be swell.
EDIT: Also I'm not a fan of the "humor". Shaman lady says she's saving our butts. That's the kind of lame line that makes me feel like I'm not part of the target audience or something.
The best moves aren't necessarily the ones that do the most damage. They have more wind-up and more cooldown, don't give you as much meter, or don't hit as much enemies or knock them in the air or anything else. Of course the combat is going to seem boring, because you actually slow the game down a lot if you do nothing but spam the 'strongest' moves, since the way you actually maximize is by chaining the right moves together in the right contexts. For example, Razmi's down attack is ostensibly a really underwhelming and weak poke, but it applies a potent slow debuff that can be stacked twice, which cripples an enemy's action bar regain. Tungarr's down attack is powerful, but doesn't have nearly as much AoE (any?) as his Up Attack, and therefore isn't useful against mobs. Ajna has a really powerful two-step axe attack, but her action gauge would be slower to recharge than if you used her neutral attack.
If you're not experimenting with attack chains and combos, you're not really utilizing the mechanics as intended.
The best moves aren't the ones that do the most damage. They have more wind-up and more cooldown, don't give you as much meter, or don't hit as much enemies or knock them in the air or anything else. Of course the combat is going to seem boring, because you actually slow the game down a lot if you do nothing but spam the 'strongest' moves, since the way you actually maximize is by chaining the right moves together in the right contexts. For example, Razmi's down attack is ostensibly a really underwhelming and weak poke, but it applies a potent slow debuff that can be stacked twice, which cripples an enemy's action bar regain. Tungarr's down attack is powerful, but doesn't have nearly as much AoE (any?) as his Up Attack, and therefore isn't useful against mobs. Ajna has a really powerful two-step axe attack, but her action gauge would be slower to recharge than if you used her neutral attack.
If you're not experimenting with attack chains and combos, you're not really utilizing the mechanics as intended.
Do the effects on your action bar stack or is it decided by the last move? If I do up square and then neutral square with Ajna, what happens with my action meter?
People are having problems keeping up with which character should block? Guys, just look at your characters all the time, and press the button a second after someone flashes red. You'll be able to see their life and ATB gauges easily too. The super meter is kinda irrelevant, the numbers pop up easily in peripheral vision and you'll quickly know that after X attacks/blocks you got 1 bar anyway.
I'm gonna have to make some time to play the prototype before backing (since I've never played VP before, just heard great things), but if I was financially irresponsible enough to back the $60 tier for Bloodstained I can't see myself not doing the same here.
I was really hyped for Skullgirls back in the day, and even though I enjoyed it a ton I fell off it pretty fast (even though I did back the IGG when that happened), so I should probably pick up 2nd Encore sometime soon too. Y'all do some great work, and I'm looking forward to seeing what you do here.
Basically, walljumps are intended to be primarily horizontal, and axe jumps are meant to be primarily vertical. They were too close to one another in the initial implementation, so we tuned them to better distinguish them.
Equipment isn't really going to be a huge thing in this game - you'll have strong weapon and armor upgrades, but there will only be like 4-5 for each character. You'll get the upgrades from exploring - basically, think Weaponite and Armorite chunks (names I made up), instead of Missle Expansions and Energy Tanks, which you turn into your Inner Realm blacksmiths to upgrade. Higher upgrades might require you to complete a short quest.
And I don't think we'll ever do GCFs or SRKs, haha. We have fighting game roots, but we want this to still be accessible to RPG players. Sure, there's Sabin's Blitzes, but... yeah.
That's quite the obscure non sequitur. Not sure why you would compare this to a fan-translated turn-based SNES RPG that's like Earthbound with a job system.
Damn, so the Art Compendium is essentially all of the work assets that went into making the final product? I'm such a sucker for such. You really should make that more clear because now I consider that tier really great value. Will make sure to upgrade my pledge asap.
Just finished my second playthrough and it took me even longer than the first. The tips people gave about axe use to kill the slime enemies without having to go into battle mode was extremely useful too. Just swinging the axe a couple of times kills them and there is no need to go into battle mode for such weak enemies. Razmi's slow spell is also nearly as useful as her heal. The main boss barely gets to do anything if you time her slow spell right.
The one thing I didn't was that dashing basically puts Ajna in MK star mode. Can't wait to try that against some actual enemies later on. I'm definitely going to need a couple more tries before I feel feel like I've got the whole prototype (and the secrets!) figured out.
Can you top up a fund at a later date to go up a reward tier? I really want that statue and am considering spreading the funding over multiple paydays.
Can you top up a fund at a later date to go up a reward tier? I really want that statue and am considering spreading the funding over multiple paydays.
What's the experience with indiegogo funding development? Is it erratic like Kickstarter's? Or is it incremental with more people backing it in the end?
