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[More_Badass]

Why would supporting slacker backers natively on their platform be seen as a bad thing, again?

It makes everything clearer and easier for both backers and crowdfunders.

I think he means that people won't see the deadline as urgent, so won't feel the project needs their money within the timeframe? I don't think that's a widely known feature of IGG in the first place, though.

And I mean, ignoring that it's fixed funding.

I think the part that poster isn't aware of is that said option only opens up if the campaign gets funded.

I mean, I understand what it is, but to others, a seemingly endless campaign might turn people off.

 

[NipplesAndToes23]

Right now we're thinking that attack strength is a function of how many Incarnations Ajna has fused with.

Leveling up will give everyone HP and recharge boosts.

Number of attacks will likely be based on weapon upgrades.

Oh so the only stats will be HP and Strength?

Not including the traditional

DEF MAG DEF
MAG maybe Luck?

 

[otaku-asia]

Totally love the ascetics of the game. Full hand-drawn animations for an action RPG is a great achievement. I won't be backing for a number of reasons (2018 release, publisher involved, too high funding goal, etc.) but I will definitely pick it up upon release.

 

[exmachina64]

Totally love the ascetics of the game. Full hand-drawn animations for an action RPG is a great achievement. I won't be backing for a number of reasons (2018 release, publisher involved, too high funding goal, etc.) but I will definitely pick it up upon release.

Indivisible isn't happening if the campaign doesn't succeed.

I'd like to hope this is a case where you didn't read the OP or campaign page carefully enough.

Indivisible will not happen if we don’t hit our goal.

But the cynical part of me thinks that since you won't back it because a publisher's involved and the funding goal is too high, you think it'll be made anyway.

 

[The Yo Tornado]

It is an interesting question though. If Shenmue 3 wasn't transparent enough and Indivisible is considered to be too transparent, where is the line in-between?

 

[otaku-asia]

Indivisible isn't happening if the campaign doesn't succeed.

A lot of times this is just marketing talk, look at what happened to Red Ash. They've made money with Skullgirls and they have publisher support. The game looks great but that doesn't mean I will put down money for it more than 2 years in advance.

If it happens, it's great and I will pick up the game on launch. If it doesn't... well, there's no shortage of games to be honest. Anyway, I wish the devs best of luck with their campaign.

 

[Ravidrath]

It is an interesting question though. If Shenmue 3 wasn't transparent enough and Indivisible is considered to be too transparent, where is the line in-between?

There such a thing as "too transparent?"

Should've cut our game into pieces to get the number down, and figure out what we can make based on the number?

Should've lied about the actual goal and hope to make it up in stretch goals? And then if we just got there, run out of money and not deliver?

Because those are basically the options.

A lot of times this is just marketing talk. They've made money with Skullgirls and they have publisher support. The game looks great but that doesn't mean I will put down money for it more than 2 years in advance.

If it happens, it's great and I will pick up the game on launch. If it doesn't... well, there's no shortage of games to be honest. Anyway, I wish the devs best of luck with their campaign.

I can assure you that we have no Skullgirls money to fund this. And I don't appreciate you basically calling me a liar, either.

505 Games does these sorts of partnerships on most of their products, just usually the developer has money or investors to provide their half of the development costs.

In our case, we didn't have that money lying around, so crowdfunding was the way to get it.

We do not like doing this. We don't want to. It's just the best option we have available to us.

 

[Lackadaisicool]

I think I'm going to throw $60 at this!

 

[The Yo Tornado]

There such a thing as "too transparent?"

Should've cut our game into pieces to get the number down, and figure out what we can make based on the number?

Should've lied about the actual goal and hope to make it up in stretch goals? And then if we just got there, run out of money and not deliver?

Because those are basically the options.

Oh, no, I want to be clear how I absolutely love how transparent you guys are about how the process works and where the money goes. But I'm just wondering if Shenmue 3 is on one end of the spectrum and Indivisible is on the other, and people have problems with both methods is there any route to go that could appease everybody? I don't think so, but I'm curious as to what such a thing would look like.

 

[Moonlight]

A lot of times this is just marketing talk, look at what happened to Red Ash. They've made money with Skullgirls and they have publisher support. The game looks great but that doesn't mean I will put down money for it more than 2 years in advance.

If it happens, it's great and I will pick up the game on launch. If it doesn't... well, there's no shortage of games to be honest. Anyway, I wish the devs best of luck with their campaign.

I don't know why Red Ash is being used as this incredible precedent all crowdfunds by this point onward should be judged by when the shadiness of those circumstances comes down specifically to Comcept. It's hardly an epidemic.

Your scenario of 'project about to fail suddenly rescued by a publisher' doesn't actually happen very often, if at all, and you have to understand how silly it must seem to suggest a second publisher/major investor will suddenly fly in and cover Lab Zero's side of the development costs.

 

[otaku-asia]

Your scenario of 'project about to fail suddenly rescued by a publisher' doesn't actually happen very often, if at all, and you have to understand how silly it must seem to suggest a second publisher/major investor will suddenly fly in and cover Lab Zero's side of the development costs.

I don't think it's silly. A lot of bigger developers use Kickstarter as a means to minimize their risk, increase product awareness and build up an early fan base. They have already invested a significant amount of money into their product and won't just cancel it because of a failed crowdfunding campaign. Red Ash could have been one of those examples...

 

[mStudios]

Why not Kickstarter?

 

[More_Badass]

I don't think it's silly. A lot of bigger developers use Kickstarter as a means to minimize their risk, increase product awareness and build up an early fan base. They have already invested a significant amount of money into their product and won't just cancel it because of a failed crowdfunding campaign. Red Ash could have been one of those examples...

Besides Double Fine, Red Ash, and Shenmue, what "bigger developers" have used KS? Even when it's a spiritual successor, it's still an independent team

The scenario you're talking about is relatively rare. Most gaming KS are small indie debuts

 

[Moonlight]

I don't think it's silly. A lot of bigger developers use Kickstarter as a means to minimize their risk, increase product awareness and build up an early fan base. They have already invested a significant amount of money into their product and won't just cancel it because of a failed crowdfunding campaign. Red Ash could have been one of those examples...

Yeah, but the thing is that Lab Zero isn't one of them. They're not even that big among indie devs.

I'm not entirely clear where your point is, though. Lab Zero already has a partner that they've been entirely open about having from the beginning of the project, and have been totally clear on exactly how much money that partner is putting into the project and what their responsibilities are. Besides that, Lab Zero used their own money to create the prototype, not 505's. If they secretly had the money to make this project a reality (on top of the publisher they've already courted), I seriously doubt they would have left it up to crowdfunding. And like, if that were true, Skullgirls must have been way more successful than I thought.

You're concerned about the project being 'rescued' last minute when the circumstances don't allow that, when the case you cite is an exception to a general precedent among other crowdfund campaigns, and in spite of the fact that money doesn't just come from nowhere. I don't mean to shame anyone for not backing the project, but this scenario you're suggesting isn't a justified one.

 

[hosannainexcelsis]

Oh, no, I want to be clear how I absolutely love how transparent you guys are about how the process works and where the money goes. But I'm just wondering if Shenmue 3 is on one end of the spectrum and Indivisible is on the other, and people have problems with both methods is there any route to go that could appease everybody? I don't think so, but I'm curious as to what such a thing would look like.

There's no way to please everyone, especially on the Internet.

Besides Double Fine, Red Ash, and Shenmue, what "bigger developers" have used KS? Even when it's a spiritual successor, it's still an independent team

The scenario you're talking about is relatively rare. Most gaming KS are small indie debuts

Shenmue III isn't from a big developer; it's being made by Ys Net, which is a small development company founded by Yu Suzuki. They're just licensing the IP from Sega.

 

[HellBlazer]

Why not Kickstarter?

As already answered multiple times by Ravi...

They [IGG] take a smaller cut and pay out faster. And we have past success with them, and because of that they're giving us a lot of additional PR and campaign support that we could never get from Kickstarter.

I personally find it difficult to believe that IGG is the problem. That doesn't mean it's not, but I think we did put together the kind of campaign everyone says they want, so it's sort of hard to accept that the funding platform would be the deciding factor.

 

[mStudios]

As already answered multiple times by Ravi...

My b. On Mobile and haven't read the whole thread yet.

 

[Beats]

Some cool pixel art by Paul Robertson:

https://twitter.com/probzz/status/652327363393400832

 

[Ravidrath]

Besides that, Lab Zero used their own money to create the prototype, not 505's.

Incorrect - the prototype was funded by 505 Games. If we're not funded they will not get that back, unless we sign with another publisher, who will have to pay it back to them.

Games are expensive to make, and it's increasingly common for publishers to invest in prototype to try and save more money in the longrun.

So spending less than 10% of the budget in order to reduce their potential bill by half and finding out if the product is viable is actually a very sound business decision.

 

[Moonlight]

Incorrect - the prototype was funded by 505 Games. If we're not funded they will not get that back, unless we sign with another publisher, who will have to pay it back to them.

Games are expensive to make, and it's increasingly common for publishers to invest in prototype to try and save more money in the longrun.

So spending less than 10% of the budget in order to reduce their potential bill by half and finding out if the product is viable is actually a very sound business decision.

Oh, sorry. Somehow I thought I read that you used your own money for the prototype.

 

[Blood Diamonds]

Incorrect - the prototype was funded by 505 Games. If we're not funded they will not get that back, unless we sign with another publisher, who will have to pay it back to them.

Games are expensive to make, and it's increasingly common for publishers to invest in prototype to try and save more money in the longrun.

So spending less than 10% of the budget in order to reduce their potential bill by half and finding out if the product is viable is actually a very sound business decision.

I just wanna say that I like Skullgirls and think it's a great game

Spoiler

beowulf forever

It must be a pain in the ass having to reply to the same shit over and over again and dealing with people thinking you have a magical "skullgirls money" chest and are just baiting for a big publisher with the campaign. It's not much but I backed $5 dollars, I really hope you guys get to make this awesome game and you're awesome at your job ravi

 

[Ravidrath]

"Indivisible" sounds pretty fraction-y, right?

Someone want to go into the Frog Fractions 2 thread and get them all to play it looking for clues?

 

[charlequin]

Well I mean, anything can still happen.

Sure. I don't want to be too predictive here. I phrased myself the way I did purposely; it's certainly possible for this project to succeed from here out, but it would involve an inflection point that materially shifted the level of support being achieved.

I personally find it difficult to believe that IGG is the problem. That doesn't mean it's not, but I think we did put together the kind of campaign everyone says they want, so it's sort of hard to accept that the funding platform would be the deciding factor.

I think it's inaccurate to look at IGG vs. Kickstarter as if it's a superficial distinction, as if it's Pepsi drinkers who are obviously going to buy Coke if that's all that's available. There are real differences that affect people's decision-making here.

Kickstarter has a very good and reliable reputation (important for something people perceive as inherently a little sketchy like crowdfunding.) It's a place many people already have an account (just the friction of signing up somewhere new and entering payment information is a big deterrent to many people.) It's a site a lot of well-heeled crowd-funders already visit regularly, which dramatically improves discoverability, and which is sending out emails to all those people who already signed up. (Its userbase is apparently around 3 million people, which is nothing to sneeze at.) It has an external ecosystem of stuff that IGG doesn't (the obvious thing that comes to mind is Kicktraq.) Kickstarter has exactly one funding model, and no customer confusion about it.

Maybe most significantly, Kickstarter pledges are collected at the end, which means anyone can cancel a pledge no-harm-no-foul earlier during the campaign -- IGG locks you in and makes you talk to a CS rep to get a refund if you really want to cancel. Even though the vast majority of people don't cancel their pledges, the ability to do so helps ease people in to pledging money to this type of campaign -- when it's not easy to reverse a pledge, people are going to be more reticent to pledge in the first place. All of this stuff goes into people's thought processes when they make a call on buying into a campaign like this.

 

[duckroll]

It's a site a lot of well-heeled crowd-funders already visit regularly, which dramatically improves discoverability, and which is sending out emails to all those people who already signed up. (Its userbase is apparently around 3 million people, which is nothing to sneeze at.) It has an external ecosystem of stuff that IGG doesn't (the obvious thing that comes to mind is Kicktraq.)

I feel that this is probably the most significant thing. Looking at it as a funding platform brand is a mistake. Instead the question is really about "how can I reach the most amount of like-minded people in the fastest way" and the answer when it comes to crowdfunding is Kickstarter. It's not because most of the people using Kickstarter are fanboys who won't use any other platform, but rather that if you aren't on Kickstarter, many of these people won't even hear about the project at all.

 

[Nilaul]

I would had backed it for WiiU version.

Don't really want to play on my laptop (It needs to stay clean for work).

 

[Alex_Mexico]

I might had backed it for WiiU version. Don't really want to play on my laptop (It needs to stay clean for work).

The game's coming out until 2018. By then the WiiU will be as irrelevant as the OG Wii is today. It makes no sense to release this in what will probably be a 2-year-since-dead console.

It's a long way for 2018. If you think you'll probably own a PS4 or XB1 by then you can pledge now.

 

[Nilaul]

The game's coming out until 2018. By then the WiiU will be as irrelevant as the OG Wii is today. It makes no sense to release this in what will probably be a 2-year-since-dead console.

It's a long way for 2018. If you think you'll probably own a PS4 or XB1 by then you can pledge now.

Oh... I see. I completely forgot about that fact.

 

[Captainbob]

I'm so sad the campaign doesnt get more attention and funding. It was already discussed but I also think the main reason is Indiegogo. Even though they provide you a larger cut, additional PR and campaign support etc I'm rather convinced the game would do better on Kickstarter.
Skullgirls succeeded on Indiegogo because it was a fighting game, not because of this type of game in itself, but because of the Fighting Game Community behind it. The niche aspect of the genre actually worked as a strenght, it made this project remarkable and you already had an existing community eager to back this kind of game. A lot of hype surrounded the game and people went to Indiegogo and create an account specifically to back it.

I think it's inaccurate to look at IGG vs. Kickstarter as if it's a superficial distinction, as if it's Pepsi drinkers who are obviously going to buy Coke if that's all that's available. There are real differences that affect people's decision-making here.

Kickstarter has a very good and reliable reputation (important for something people perceive as inherently a little sketchy like crowdfunding.) It's a place many people already have an account (just the friction of signing up somewhere new and entering payment information is a big deterrent to many people.) It's a site a lot of well-heeled crowd-funders already visit regularly, which dramatically improves discoverability, and which is sending out emails to all those people who already signed up. (Its userbase is apparently around 3 million people, which is nothing to sneeze at.) It has an external ecosystem of stuff that IGG doesn't (the obvious thing that comes to mind is Kicktraq.) Kickstarter has exactly one funding model, and no customer confusion about it.

Maybe most significantly, Kickstarter pledges are collected at the end, which means anyone can cancel a pledge no-harm-no-foul earlier during the campaign -- IGG locks you in and makes you talk to a CS rep to get a refund if you really want to cancel. Even though the vast majority of people don't cancel their pledges, the ability to do so helps ease people in to pledging money to this type of campaign -- when it's not easy to reverse a pledge, people are going to be more reticent to pledge in the first place. All of this stuff goes into people's thought processes when they make a call on buying into a campaign like this.

I agree, and I would add that it's actually far easier to give money though Kickstarter, at least from my experience. I'm not really familiar with Indiegogo it's only the second project I back on it, but I was once again forced to give money via Paypal, I wasnt given the option to pay direcly by card. I rarely use Paypal, so I had to find back my account, then link my card, to finally be able to back the project. Once again I'm not familiar with Indiegogo so I dont know if that's standard procedure, but not everybody wants to mess around with Paypal.

 

[Ravidrath]

Look, people are free to think what they well about our choice of platform, but discussing it ad nauseam isn't productive.

We did this, we're stuck with it for now, so... why belabor the issue? On every page. Over and over.

I also don't really get the sense that most of the people complaining about it would be contributing, either?

 

[More_Badass]

Look, people are free to think what they well about our choice of platform, but discussing it ad nauseam isn't productive.

We did this, we're stuck with it for now, so... why belabor the issue? On every page. Over and over.

I also don't really get the sense that most of the people complaining about it would be contributing, either?

Mainly because we're really excited about Indivisible and want to see such an awesome project succeed

Maybe I'm cynical but I follow crowdfunding closer than most people (been maintaining the annual crowdfunding/Kickstarter/IGG threads for two years) and basically if I see a project on IGG, I expect failure and get surprised if it's funded. I've seen a lot of promising projects on IGG.

 

[Ravidrath]

Mainly because we're really excited about Indivisible and want to see such an awesome project succeed

Maybe I'm cynical but I follow crowdfunding closer than most people (been maintaining the annual crowdfunding/Kickstarter/IGG threads for two years) and basically if I see a project on IGG, I expect failure and get surprised if it's funded. I've seen a lot of promising projects on IGG.

Obviously we want this project to succeed, too.

And while it's great that people are concerned on our behalf, I just don't see how armchairing about the platform is really going to help us get there?

Sending tips to outlets and YouTubers that haven't covered us yet would be a lot more productive, for example. We're doing as much press outreach as we can, but a lot of people asking gaming sites or YouTubers that haven't covered the campaign yet would be a lot more useful.

 

[mStudios]

The fact that IGG takes the money immediately and not after the campaign is over, are making people not to pledge, Kickstarter takes the money after. A lot of people can pledge now (even if there is no money in the account) and put the money later on, when it reaches the goal.

I'm going to support this project as soon as possible, it looks pretty dope.

 

[SolarPowered]

The easiest way to handle the requests and questions from people who don't read the OP is to just leave them for mass quotes per page. They're not worth the energy to tackle one at a time.

Mainly because we're really excited about Indivisible and want to see such an awesome project succeed

Maybe I'm cynical but I follow crowdfunding closer than most people (been maintaining the annual crowdfunding/Kickstarter/IGG threads for two years) and basically if I see a project on IGG, I expect failure and get surprised if it's funded. I've seen a lot of promising projects on IGG.

It's extremely demoralizing to make an issue out of it repeatedly just days (or in the case of this thread hours) into the campaign, especially when closing a campaign and restarting it on another site still costs money (thousands!?). This isn't an attack on you in particular, but if you put yourself in their shoes you have to admit that you'd find said opinion extremely annoying if it were being directed to you again and again like this. I felt similarly about the campaign since I saw the minimum goal and IGG, but there will be plenty of time to discuss the issue farther into the campaign or even afterwards if worse comes to worst. At this point the whole KS issue has a stench similar to port begging, but it's a lot more harmful when a developer actually bothers to engage with us and has to deal with the same argument ad nauseam. My bad if it sounds like I'm attacking you. This is more of a general post for anyone to read, but I suspect that people who don't read the OP or anything else will probably miss this post too.

 

[Ravidrath]

The fact that IGG takes the money immediately and not after the campaign is over, are making people not to pledge, Kickstarter takes the money after. A lot of people can pledge now (even if there is no money in the account) and put the money later on, when it reaches the goal.

I'm going to support this project as soon as possible, it looks pretty dope.

While I understand the consumer side of that, it has fucked a few KS projects before, which is I think is why IGG does it this way.

For example, there have been situations where a KS just barely makes its goal, and then a bunch of pledges don't go through and the campaign retroactively fails.

At this point the whole KS issue has a stench similar to port begging

I almost made this exact comparison in my post.

 

[mStudios]

While I understand the consumer side of that, it has fucked a few KS projects before, which is I think is why IGG does it this way.

For example, there have been situations where a KS just barely makes its goal, and then a bunch of pledges don't go through and the campaign retroactively fails.

Well, I can't tell you what to / not what to do, since I'm not experienced as you in the crowdfunding world. However, one of my friend had issues already and what I stated before was one of the reason on why the project failed on IGG. People don't like to see their money gone from the account if the project hasn't reach their goal. This is not from a developers point, but from a consumer point of view.

All I can say is to wish you luck and hope you reach (even, surpass!) the goal, since the game looks pretty great and beautiful! I'll do my best and spread the word in those popular Spanish video games forum, it might help a little!

 

[FataIChoice]

Really tempted for the $250, I love the art and was a fan of the Mechafetus artblog, still wish I could get Jonathon's SMT1 print (the demon one, not the grape juice one), any word on what the print will be of?

Also, will there possibly be an option for posting unframed in a tube? I fear the cost of shipping a framed print to Australia may outweigh the cost of having it framed locally. Though maybe doing that becomes too much of an issue with shipping the other items.

 

[Cmagus]

Have you guys considered doing a small contest for the campaign like a fan art contest or something that could potentially get more people involved? Having people participate in something like that could possibly help spread the word.

I'll up my pledge to the $250 mark next week when I get paid I would really like the plushie and framed giclee print.

 

[Ravidrath]

Have you guys considered doing a small contest for the campaign like a fan art contest or something that could potentially get more people involved? Having people participate in something like that could possibly help spread the word.

I'll up my pledge to the $250 mark next week when I get paid I would really like the plushie and framed giclee print.

Have a lot of that kind of thing coming up, just takes a little time to plan out.

 

[Kikirin]

I haven't played the prototype yet, but my wallet is yours. Still need to decide on a contribution amount though.

 

[Ravidrath]

We're accelerating the Incarnation reveals to one every $50k!

This is Thorani, whose hair produces a purifying water that she uses to wash away evil.

 

[Gbraga]

YES

How do you pronounce her name?

 

[Moonlight]

We're accelerating the Incarnation reveals to one every $50k!



This is Thorani, whose hair produces a purifying water that she uses to wash away evil.

She looks great. :0

Hopefully we get our next reveal very soon!

 

[TheOGB]

We're accelerating the Incarnation reveals to one every $50k!

This is Thorani, whose hair produces a purifying water that she uses to wash away evil.

Nice!

Holy hell, if she made her hair wet and whipped someone with it...

 

[Tinfoilhatsron]

We're accelerating the Incarnation reveals to one every $50k!



This is Thorani, whose hair produces a purifying water that she uses to wash away evil.

Aw that's pretty damn cool.

 

[SpaceCadetKeon]

YES

How do you pronounce her name?

I'm guessing Thor-Ah-Nee.

 

[Meia]

Payday today, so backed at the $60 level. Been wanting to since the last thread popped up. Interesting MC design had me intrigued already, but weapon skills effecting exploration? Hell yes.

 

[Ravidrath]

Payday today, so backed at the $60 level. Been wanting to since the last thread popped up. Interesting MC design had me intrigued already, but weapon skills effecting exploration? Hell yes.

Thanks so much for your support!

 

[Moonlight]

Is it possible to 'gift' tiers to people? Like paying for a handful of 30 dollar tiers separately and distributing them with as minimal amount of fuss as possible or is that unfeasible with IGG?

 

[NEO0MJ]

Nice that you're revealing incarnations faster. Hopefully that boosts interest. Sometimes people can get excited thanks to that character that really clicks with them.

 

[Ravidrath]

Is it possible to 'gift' tiers to people? Like paying for a handful of 30 dollar tiers separately and distributing them with as minimal amount of fuss as possible or is that unfeasible with IGG?

Hmm.

I think you'd need to just get multiple tiers for yourself, and then distribute the codes when you get them from the HB?

Nice that you're revealing incarnations faster. Hopefully that boosts interest. Sometimes people can get excited thanks to that character that really clicks with them.

Yeah, characters are our strong suit, so shouldn't back.

Don't have enough to get us all the way to $1.5M yet, but the artists are working on more.