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Insomniac Games responds to the QTE criticism in Spider-Man for PS4
- Thread starter almostjuliuscaesar
- Start date
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
I would recommend actually reading what I just said instead of just looking at the pictures.
Patience my friend, they said an extended demo is coming after E3, when you ask? ¯\_(ツ
_/¯
Allonym
There should be more tampons in gaming
Except that no one who is being critical of Insomniac can really name what Insomniac could've done alternatively for that scene if they had omitted the QTE's. How can you complain and say "they should've done something different", when they themselves can't accurately convey a way to do that with their own thoughts and choose to instead hide behind the excuse of "well, I'm not a game designer". I'm not saying people can't critique the game but if you are and say such and such could've been done so much better, at least share your thoughts of how to do that and offer up some suggestions.
I love Insomniac's work, and this is the ideal answer. Hand-wringing about QTEs is silly after a statement like this. The game could have its own problems, but the section was was chosen for its stage presence, and they have a history of output that shows they have a strong sense of what players enjoy.
Primethius
Banned
Because making it all gameplay is unreasonably naive from a game dev perspective.
And I like QTEs, so I got no issue here.
Northeastmonk
Gold Member
That scene would piss people off even if it wasn't a QTE because people complain about trial and error 😁
Could you imagine someone reloading that scene if they had to do it all manually? They'd be like, "this sucks" or "why can't I skip this?". lol just a thought I had
Could you imagine someone reloading that scene if they had to do it all manually? They'd be like, "this sucks" or "why can't I skip this?". lol just a thought I had
giancarlo123x
Banned
You think they're going to show something they're probably saving for another big event on a random Monday because of the vocal minority of crybabys?
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
I just did on the last page.....
Hi, PS4 owner, I didn't really like the look of the QTEs. Not everyone who isn't a fan of very video gamey looking QTEs are xbox fanboys. To me they look very video gamey juxtaposed against the otherwise incredibly realistic lighting work. I feel that modern games have become much better at hiding this by making the QTEs stick out way less. And since these were all based on the web, instead of a flashing colored circled, they could go with the symbol for webs and for the large part, people would know what to press.
Like what they do in Uncharted.
this to me is preferable over the obvious video game color coding if there's no option for them to auto complete.
BassForever
Member
E3 is the one time of year that gaming has the most eyeballs on it
Sony and Insomniac put out a trailer that people who only casually follow the hobby watch, this trailer gave enough people a bad impression of the final product that insomniac had to put out statements clarifying that the trailer is representative of a small portion of the game. If so many people were misinformed then the trailer did a poor job conveying what the full game will actually be like. Not everyone pays attention to gaming as much as we do.
Most of the complaints against QTEs are not against how long they last, it's about how frequently they occur. If each QTE lasted 1 second and there was a 35 seconds total in 9 minutes of gameplay, it would be annoying as hell. That's an extreme example, but the point is that length of time the QTE lasts is not really the complaint.
Exactly. People will put what they see ahead of everything else.
flintstryker
Banned
I mean it should have been obvious that it wouldn't be a setipece fest on one hand but on the other I hate demos like this, better show stuff that is more representative of the actual game you'll be playing the vast majority of the time
you mean popular opinion time..I totally agree with you. nothing worse than me leaning back in my chair expecting to enjoy an awesome cutscene...and then suddenly button prompts show up.
It's not really about the specifics of moving like a tank. It's more about the disconnect created when a character can do things in a cutscene that the character can't do when the player is in control. I don't know if that's the case in Spider-man.
But they did...
I've played it a bazillion times. They barely ever come up.
But if RE4 is your idea of "severely compromised" (sounds like people who say a game is "unplayable" and "broken" when a frame drops), I don't know what to tell you.
That is true, but I don't think that casual viewers are the ones complaining. They're probably the ones who don't even really know what QTEs are and just thought the game looked awesome.
Yeah but i hope that extended demo is even more than what they showed at E3 behind closed doors because press impressions afterwards they said they didn't really show much more.
I really hope that extended gameplay demo is more like one of those MGSV gameplay presentations, those were absolutely fantastic. Show lot's of gameplay, explain the mechanics etc. just give us a side mission or so.
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
As far as I've seen only ones making a big deal about it are ppl like us. Go watch some casuals enjoy the gameplay demonstration. Probably don't even know it's called a Qte
Shifty1897
Member
I would point to other games that manage to incorporate normal game mechanics into the set pieces, like Uncharted, OR if you are going to have QTEs, use them sparingly and only for something that absolutely couldn't have been done with a game mechanic instead. I don't have a problem with them per se, but I do think this part of the game had one or two too many.
RichiRamjag
Member
I wonder who actually saw the vid and who is regurgitating what they've read elsewhere.
Hendrick's
If only my penis was as big as my GamerScore!
Don't see how changing the symbol makes any difference.
People should already understand that E3 press conference trailers/demos are more about making visually engaging presentations (which often means showing some set piece moments that don't have the player in control 100% of the time, relying on more scripted stuff than the overall game will etc.) than showcasing the intricacies & all aspects of gameplay. Even then, the demo showed enough of non-QTE stuff that relied on fluid one-on-many combat, making use of the environment, snappy traversal & stealth etc. that had very little QTEs.
Lol. The game got tons of Best of E3 nominations & wins. The reception was far from negative. The only negative people are the very, VERY small vocal minority of negative nancies that pick everything apart and nothing is ever good enough and QTEs killed their dogs and not understanding the context of anything etc.
CJY
Banned
Yep, I am comparing them. There is fundamentally zero difference and simply comes down to how they are designed. QTEs and combo sequence difficulties and complexities are on a spectrum. Certain QTEs: more complex, certain combos: less complex, and they may meet in the middle. One is neither better than the other. A QTE could have multiple command prompts that are even more complex than a combo in a fighter, the point is, is down to design. Nothing wrong with QTEs as a concept.
Another example, take a look Gears of War, the reload mechanic there where you hit reload at just the right time to get a quick reload. That by definition is a QTE, but it's well designed and integrates well into the gunplay and gameplay.
Of course it can be argued if it's a bad implementation of QTE, but to want to be completely rid of them, is again, absolutely absurd.
55571542coolbeans
Neo Member
It was the minute of the climax of the gameplay, you can forgive people for remembering the part you are designed to remember the most. Not everyone analyses or even rewatches trailers and demos over and over, the gameplay/chase built up to the crane and then went down in energy from there.
the irony is, atleats for me....i cant watch what happens because i filter the information for the buttonpress...
oldergamer
Member
I recall Ryse getting a ton of flak for QTE's despite the fact it doesn't really have any. I'm not a fan of QTE's at all, it takes the enjoyment from watching a cinematic away for me. Partially why I didn't like the telltale batman as much as i was hoping.
People keep bringing in Uncharted and Nathan Drake is not Spiderman. If you want to make him a regular human...sure look at uncharted. But Spiderman isn't and Uncharted isn't the template for Spiderman.
The casual viewers think it looks sick
Gravy Boat
Member
RE4 is full of QTEs. There's a boss fight that's literarily a series of QTEs for about 10 minutes. Your memory isn't great.
I said I still loved the game, so they didn't ruin it for me. I just know I would have enjoyed it more if they weren't there. I'm not expecting you to tell me anything, I'm just saying that I don't like QTEs and see them as a negative mark against any game that uses them heavily. It's fine to disagree with me, I'm not trying to convince you of anything.
autoduelist
Member
There is a time and place for QTE. Very limited gameplay during cutscene type events [boss battles, etc] keeps immersion, and allows the developer to create events that simply couldn't exist otherwise. I mean, sure, they could try to shoehorn every fight into the standard moveset of the rest of the game, but sometimes it's nice to be able to have a move so [visually and acrobatically] complex in the boss fight that only a QTE could do it. Or, imagine the 'save the love interest vs save a bus full of people' decision... having the player make a spit second decision during a cutscene by pressing l1 or r1 is fine.
QTE isn't bad as a rule. It can be done badly, sure. But if done right, it can give both the player and the developer far more opportunity for solid gameplay and story.
Allonym
There should be more tampons in gaming
You shouldn't have to kiss people's asses to get a few more sales. If the person had said the same thing but in a more polite manner, like "hey I'm concerned that the game will feature an abundance of QTE's, is there something you can share with me and other concerned fans to alleviate this fear?" then that would warrant a nice response, but the don't get full of yourselves thing is an asshole thing to say and so they get an asshole response.
But I get your point, not only are they representing themselves, they are also representing Marvel and the Spider-Man brand. I don't think Insomniac would miss that one person and that wouldn't necessarily kill the public image/relations. Just my opinion.
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
Yea ppl are really confusing a vocal minority message boards to the overarching public.
This is going to sound overly harsh, but since you asked:
They could make a game that's fun and compelling all the way through instead of taking 99% of control away from the player at the most epic climactic moments and making you watch a cutscene of the character doing the cool thing because the gameplay systems in place can't handle it. They could make the writing support the gameplay instead of the other way around.
That's the Kaiser knife fight right? That's the only major one in a boss fight I recall, the rest were just stuff like tapping A to push back a knife or something.
Soul of the Beast
Member
It's not dumb if it helps the developer improve the game.
Whether it's making the QTE less obvious, more fun or just get rid half of it, either way it's good.
Pre-release criticism (reasonable ones of course) is healthy for any game's development. Look at how DOOM evolve into one of the best game of 2016! The devs listened to people's feedback, even though most people called it ''nerd whining''.
Last thing Insominac want is to see everyone being super positive about the game only to see the game released and be seen as a disappointment. (*cough* Evolve *cough*)
Allonym
There should be more tampons in gaming
Hmm, that's fair. I thought about it and there were ways for them to accomplish a similar scene but I think it'd have to be far less chaotic, with some things being completely omitted and this likely wouldn't have made for a nearly as entertaining demo.
Your opinion is just that, an opinion and it's ok that you don't feel that the scene in question didn't look fun. This stuff is all subjective. Personally, I thought it looked exhilarating and I'm questioning if regular, average citizens would die if Spider-Man had failed to stop the tail end of the chopper. I'm wondering would that have any impacts for Spider-Man later I to the game, like Jameson slamming Spider-Man in the news and if citizens and civil servants be as receptive of him. Maybe there's more to it than just a QTE.
AndrewDean84xX
Banned
The cynical part of me thinks a lot of the defense of QTE is due to the game being exclusive.
travisbickle
Member
Should have gone with mandatory Move-controller web swinging, that would have calmed the critics.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Makes it less jarringly video gamey. The less noticeable and natural feeling it is the less it takes me out of the scene. And the less it distracts from the visuals the better. There's literally an exact moment like this in the trailer:
more this:
and less this:
which looks very obviously videogamey by comparison.
Hi, PS4 owner, I didn't really like the look of the QTEs. Not everyone who isn't a fan of very video gamey looking QTEs are xbox fanboys. To me they look very video gamey juxtaposed against the otherwise incredibly realistic lighting work. I feel that modern games have become much better at hiding this by making the QTEs stick out way less. And since these were all based on the web, instead of a flashing colored circled, they could go with the symbol for webs and for the large part, people would know what to press.
Like what they do in Uncharted.
this to me is preferable over the obvious video game color coding if there's no option for them to auto complete.
That Spidey screenshot isn't even from a QTE dude. You don't have to swing to that water tank.
Lil'DigiOp
Member
I'd like to see you nerds code a sky crane crashing into a building and have the player save it in free gameplay, no qte.
Yall some lames.
Yall some lames.
Primethius
Banned
Okay. I'm confused as to how I missed the point in this being called a QTE fest given what we saw. Don't need examples as we have actual footage and timing breakdown.
The term QTE fest was wholly inappropriate within the confines of what was shown, distaste for QTEs aside.
Gravy Boat
Member
There were at least 2 parts where you had to run away from a boulder, which were entirely QTEs. Del Lago was almost entire QTEs, and almost all boss fights had a decent focus on QTEs (Like El Gigante, cutting the exposed parasite). The minecart part had a bunch too.
I haven't played the game in 6 years maybe, so I know I'm forgetting some, but they were very frequent. RE4 is famous for its QTEs.
My argument would be find better ways to do big set pieces. If you can't code a sky crane crashing into a building and having the player save it in free gameplay, then come up with a different set piece.
InsaneTiger
Member
Sure but the game isn't one big QTE. Everyone has a different idea of QTEs obviously, hell, someone said RE4 is one big QTE and that is bull dooky.
Some believe a game that has any button prompts on screen whatsoever qualifies as QTE heavy. While others that see it only in cutscenes is not QTE heavy.
The point is that it doesn't matter. Whether there are a little or a lot, people will still either love it, like it or hate it.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
You can really tell when someone is just looking at the pictures and not the text behind those pictures...
Northeastmonk
Gold Member
Ninja Warrior it or jump off sky crane onto the ground, walk around the cars piled on the street, jump over construction, maneuver around the building, and then finally get to the objective that has stopped due to the player taking 5-6 minutes in order to travel there, and then activate the scene by pressing a button. Lol yeah just give me the QTE