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[OléGunner]

I'd like to see you nerds code a sky crane crashing into a building and have the player save it in free gameplay, no qte.

Yall some lames.

Real challenge for the devs definitely.
I think it's easier to pull of in Uncharted (relatively speaking, I know making games is hard!) because his move set isn't as acrobitic or complex as Spidey.

I like how they give control to the player still in the collapsing building leading onto the helicopter fight which is a cool cinematic sequence for instance.
So yeah I don't mind a few QTE's sprinkled in for the really crazier bits.

 

[StarPhlox]

Insomniac has earned more than enough goodwill IMO to overcome what I thought was a weak showing at E3. Less spectacle and more "real" gameplay would have done a lot of good PR for them.

 

[Disgraced]

The best use of QTEs are contextual actions, imo. I.e. mash out of this grab, beat the fuck out of this, survive this torture. In set pieces I don't hate them but I tend to agree it's sort of lame in an action game like this where you probably could make the set traversable and playable, albeit without some of the granduer. It's always more impressive to actually control it.

 

[BlackBuzzard]

Insomniac has earned more than enough goodwill IMO to overcome what I thought was a weak showing at E3. Less spectacle and more "real" gameplay would have done a lot of good PR for them.

Its not even a weak showing its the most viewed trailer at E3 by millions. Neogaf is a vocal minority.

 

[ActWan]

The hyperbole over those QTEs is fucking insane. It already became a meme at this point

 

[vivekTO]

You can really tell when someone is just looking at the pictures and not the text behind those pictures...

Fix your post, Even i can't tell if the picture is the problem u are highlighting or the solution you are providing, although looking at your post its the later, i think, but still idk how it will solve the problem. maybe come up with better Example, cause right now I don't know what are you actually proposing.

 

[Son Of Sparda]

I don't mind the QTEs shown in Spider-Man and I've said it before that my problem with the demo is something else, but I don't think it's fair to laugh at the criticism of having too much QTEs or downplaying them.

The problem with this kind of QTE (the crane one in particular) is that, they just get in your way of enjoying the set piece without really adding anything of worth to it. The tension that comes from failing a QTE in a scene like that and then having to replay it all over again, makes you more cautious about the button prompt and as a result you'll pay much less attention (if any) to what is actually happening in that scene besides the fact that you have to do a QTE.

Now, that's not to say that all QTEs in that demo were bad. I actually like the one where you had to aim at the helicopters separated tail. That one was more interactive. But the usual buttons appearing on the screen at quick succession ones, imo don't really add anything to the game.

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

Insomniac has earned more than enough goodwill IMO to overcome what I thought was a weak showing at E3. Less spectacle and more "real" gameplay would have done a lot of good PR for them.

Plz don't mistake this place as the mass opinion far from it. Enthusiast may wanna see 10 minutes of free roaming swinging but on stage where you are catching the publics eye you go big. Simple

 

[Sande]

That part in Spidey isn't even a QTE. The symbol just shows what you will attach to if you webzip, and seems to always be there when you're looking at something you can zip to. It's part of the regular gameplay. The Uncharted one, on the other hand, is a QTE.

That Uncharted gif is QTEs done right. You press the contextually correct button for the action you're taking. The exact same scenario could be recreated in regular gameplay by jumping off a cliff with a rope attachment point nearby. You'd have to press L1 in time or you'd die.

Spider-man does the same thing, to an extent. Triangle seems to be the universal "shoot web here" button that has specific predetermined points of interaction. So far so good. Where it falters a bit though is by having longer stretches where pressing the on screen prompt is ALL you can do, like with the falling crane.

 

[Seventy70]

I'd like to see you nerds code a sky crane crashing into a building and have the player save it in free gameplay, no qte.

Yall some lames.

Ever play Just Cause? Have the player aim at one point, press button to shoot web, hold, move to second point and release? Spider-man has tons of potential physics-wise with the web slinging. I really hope the final game is more dynamic and sandboxy. I was disappointed with what they have shown so far though.

 

[Crossing Eden]

I'd like to see you nerds code a sky crane crashing into a building and have the player save it in free gameplay, no qte.

Yall some lames.

Or like they did with the building moment, give the player much more limited control over spiderman for a brief time. He's running in a straight line on those sky cranes before while the QTE prompt "loads."

 

[Hibiki Kurosawa]

I think that's just patently absurd. I'm not trying to defend QTE as I believe sometimes they are done badly... but I think if anything, the phraseology of "QTE" needs to die, because if you break it down, every press of a button in certain genres of games are QTEs. Take Fighters for examples, you need to input a series of commands in quick succession to make your character do something.

Bottom Line: Saying QTEs need to go means that you want games to cease to exist as a medium. Maximal Absurdity.

Eeeeeh, that's a stretch. The only genre you can really use this argument for is rhythm games.

 

[Sn4ke_911]

You can really tell when someone is just looking at the pictures and not the text behind those pictures...

lol i read your text but somehow misunderstood it, sorry... and you know what? i agree with you.

I have nothing against QTE's but please make it less videogamey like you said, not a bling bling bling and then press X thingy.

 

[LurkerPrime]

Saying essentially, "QTEs are part of the most spectacular moments in the game and, don't worry, our core gameplay loop is better!" isn't really a great defense. I'd prefer they enhance their gameplay loop to work during such critical moments, instead.

Like, straight up: give the "spectacular" part of the spectacular Spider-man to the player.

 

[Servbot24]

There were at least 2 parts where you had to run away from a boulder, which were entirely QTEs. Del Lago was almost entire QTEs, and almost all boss fights had a decent focus on QTEs (Like El Gigante, cutting the exposed parasite). The minecart part had a bunch too.

I haven't played the game in 6 years maybe, so I know I'm forgetting some, but they were very frequent. RE4 is famous for its QTEs.

Some of those seem like different categories of QTEs. I'm thinking of them as in basically watching a cutscene where button prompts appear sometimes and if you miss them the cutscene will branch to a different path. In the case of cutting El Gigante's parasite for example, it's really just a prompt for a unique cutting animation that only works in that context after the standard gameplay you have to execute to expose the parasite. Continuing that path of what a QTE is you could reach parries in WindWaker. So I'd be curious to know where the line is drawn.

 

[Sesuadra]

There you go.

QTE in set pieces only.

Much better than just sitting and watching a cutscene.

I rather watch a cutscene actually.

 

[chrisPjelly]

I dunno, I kind of hate how this implies that this will be a thing for every important cinematic missions. And yeeesh at some of the snarky "people complaining about QTEs are fanboys" posters in this thread that are shocked at people even daring to criticize a game that THEY WANT TO BUY THEMSELVES. Come oooooon guys, you KNOW the aversion a lot of people have towards QTEs, ESPECIALLY long sequences that aren't even context sensitive to the actual controls. Games like the Order 1886, Spiderman 3, a lot of Japanese games last gen, and even God of War 3 got railed on for being QTE fests. Again, I trust Insomniac to make the core gameplay loop great stuff, just hoped they would've taken a more Uncharted approach with providing a better level of control in these setpieces.

 

[Soul of the Beast]

Sure but the game isn't one big QTE. Everyone has a different idea of QTEs obviously, hell, someone said RE4 is one big QTE and that is bull dooky.

Some believe a game that has any button prompts on screen whatsoever qualifies as QTE heavy. While others that see it only in cutscenes is not QTE heavy.

The point is that it doesn't matter. Whether there are a little or a lot, people will still either love it, like it or hate it.

That I can agree, I think in the end it all comes down to how fun it is. It's true that games can still be fun and good with QTEs.

RE4 does have more QTE than any Resident Evil fans expected back in the day, and yet it is one of my favorite gaming experience of all time. I almost forgot about that.

God of War games are also very fun to replay over and over again, because the QTE are made fun too. I especially love the ones on the PSP made by Ready At Dawn (ironic I know).

I guess the game can be fun if the gameplay and QTE are mixed just right.
Hell, I guess QTE can be fun if they made it fun.

There's however one QTE that I really don't like in the E3 showcase.

Come on, that's just dumb.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Fix your post, Even i can't tell if the picture is the problem u are highlighting or the solution you are providing, although looking at your post its the later, i think, but still idk how it will solve the problem. maybe come up with better Example, cause right now I don't know what are you actually proposing.

Dude I typed:

To me they look very video gamey juxtaposed against the otherwise incredibly realistic lighting work. I feel that modern games have become much better at hiding this by making the QTEs stick out way less. And since these were all based on the web, instead of a flashing colored circled, they could go with the symbol for webs and for the large part, people would know what to press:

followed by an actual picture of said symbol. Maybe I should've included a picture of the flashing symbol to indicate.

How is that not succinct?

lol i read your text but somehow misunderstood it, sorry... and you know what? i agree with you.

I have nothing against QTE's but please make it less videogamey like you said, not a bling bling bling and then press X thingy.

Basically QTEs in general aren't inherently some evil thing, it's just that since we live in a time when games have gotten so good at making them less distracting and natural feeling.

 

[RoadHazard]

I would recommend actually reading what I just said instead of just looking at the pictures.

?

I read it. You talk about QTEs QTEs QTEs, and then proceed to show a screenshot of something that is not a QTE.

 

[KageMaru]

I didn't think the QTE's in the demo were bad, I just hope there aren't a lot of set pieces or boss fights with them in it.

 

[Bladelaw]

Put me in the camp that prefers cutscenes to QTE. I don't care how relevant they are it feels more like a "hey player are you still there?" check at worst, and a reflex test at best. Either figure out how to do the scene with the systems in place, or animate it all pretty so I can enjoy the show and not hunt for the icon to press the right button. Press X to not game over is the worst.

This shit's been bugging me since God of War and RE Umbrella Chronicles cemented how much I hate this mechanic.

I'm glad the game isn't a "QTE Fest" and I'm still hyped to play it but these parts won't be why.

 

[Gravy Boat]

Some of those seem like different categories of QTEs. I'm thinking of them as in basically watching a cutscene where button prompts appear sometimes and if you miss them the cutscene will branch to a different path. In the case of cutting El Gigante's parasite for example, it's really just a prompt for a unique cutting animation that only works in that context after the standard gameplay you have to execute to expose the parasite. Continuing that path of what a QTE is you could reach parries in WindWaker. So I'd be curious to know where the line is drawn.

The line is when you take something and make it binary. Are you doing this specific action, or not? If you are, you pass. I can choose when to parry in WindWaker, I don't get to choose wether or not I want to run away from that boulder in RE4. If you're going to make me do something, don't restrict my control for cinematic reasons, especially when it means needing to 'replay' what is essentially a cutscene over and over until I get it right. At least give me the option to just turn them off and enjoy it as a cutscene.

Or get more creative and come up with set pieces that don't require taking control away from the player.

 

[Lights and Waves]

Tbh I'm not crazy about QTE. I kinda like sitting back and watching a cutscene after a good amount of taxing gameplay.

 

[RoadHazard]

That Uncharted gif is QTEs done right. You press the contextually correct button for the action you're taking. The exact same scenario could be recreated in regular gameplay by jumping off a cliff with a rope attachment point nearby. You'd have to press L1 in time or you'd die.

Spider-man does the same thing, to an extent. Triangle seems to be the universal "shoot web here" button that has specific predetermined points of interaction. So far so good. Where it falters a bit though is by having longer stretches where pressing the on screen prompt is ALL you can do, like with the falling crane.

Sure, but that screenshot isn't of such a part. It's of Spidey swinging and zipping through the city, and the round indicator shows where he can zip to.

Makes it less jarringly video gamey. The less noticeable and natural feeling it is the less it takes me out of the scene. And the less it distracts from the visuals the better. There's literally an exact moment like this in the trailer:

more this:

, which looks sleek and modern,

and less this:

which looks very obviously videogamey by comparison.

Yes, and that second part wouldn't be possible to do in regular gameplay. They'd have to scrap it, make it much less intense, or make it a cutscene. They chose to add some interaction to it.

 

[vivekTO]

Dude I typed:


followed by an actual picture of said symbol.

How is that not succinct?

.

Ok lets talk about the last part of the gameplay, Where Spidey is in First person mode and had to do the r1,r2 trigger (now i am not saying this is a good qte). but how do flashing/changing symbol will tell gamer to Respond in that situation. I think you will need something To initiate it.The only solution i can think of Other than QTE , is completely removing that section, which i can agree upon.

 

[Sn4ke_911]

?

I read it. You talk about QTEs QTEs QTEs, and then proceed to show a screenshot of something that is not a QTE.

Nah i think understood it. He wants the QTE symbols to look more like this:

instead of this:

 

[Crossing Eden]

?

I read it. You talk about QTEs QTEs QTEs, and then proceed to show a screenshot of something that is not a QTE.

Actually no, I proceeded to talk about how I don't like the presentation of the QTEs juxtaposed against the photo realistic graphics and I would prefer instead, that the devs adopt a more modern approach. By instead going for minimalism and relying on player intuition

To me they look very video gamey juxtaposed against the otherwise incredibly realistic lighting work. I feel that modern games have become much better at hiding this by making the QTEs stick out way less. And since these were all based on the web, instead of a flashing colored circled, they could go with the symbol for webs and for the large part, people would know what to press:

Sure, but that screenshot isn't of such a part. It's of Spidey swinging and zipping through the city, and the round indicator shows where he can zip to.



Yes, and that second part wouldn't be possible to do in regular gameplay. They'd have to scrap it, make it much less intense, or make it a cutscene. They chose to add some interaction to it.

The second part would absolutely be possible, give the player incredibly limited control for that segment where he's running forward, (left stick), and then use the web sling prompt instead of the glowing X.

Ok lets talk about the last part of the gameplay, Where Spidey is in First person mode and had to do the r1,r2 trigger (now i am not saying this is a good qte). but how do flashing/changing symbol will tell gamer to Respond in that situation. I think you will need something To initiate it.The only solution i can think of Other than QTE , is completely removing that section, which i can agree upon.

I also agree that that looked goofy. Because Spiderman somehow slows down in mid-air. But if the webs are controlled with the triggers, (there's a prompt constantly telling the player to perch with them), then it's not that goofy. It's a bit jarring to suddenly go to FP, but it's possible to create a set piece where the player has to mash a button and instinctually knows what to press.

 

[Oathbreaker]

That was pretty obvious!

 

[travisbickle]

You can really tell when someone is just looking at the pictures and not the text behind those pictures...

The second image is a QTE because you have to time the press of the button to when it centers on the X, and the visual provides a "countdown" reference.

The first image isn't a timed event, it's proximity sensitive actions, like the fighting in this game, or batman, or yakuza.

You can't switch the icons because their design is fundamental to their action.

 

[Lifeline]

I mean it's the section of the game they decided to show off. So you can't blame people for extrapolating this from what they chose to show off. Glad to see that it won't be a prominent part of the game though.

It was less than a minute of a 8 minute demo they showed off. They never showed the QTE being part of the actual gameplay, just the moments that would've been cutscenes instead.

 

[Theslammer]

Unpopular opinion time.

I wish Insomniac also add an "auto QTE" option for the game for accessibility, similar to how Capcom added an auto QTE option in Resident Evil 6. If it's a 'set piece block buster' moment. I'd rather eliminate the 'miss and repeat' aspect that usually plagues these kind of QTE's completely to enjoy the set piece in it's full glory.

It's not miss-and-repeat apparently. Missing QTEs will alter the scene from some early impressions I saw (either Beyond or Kinda Funny).

 

[RoadHazard]

That I can agree, I think in the end it all comes down to how fun it is. It's true that games can still be fun and good with QTEs.

RE4 does have more QTE than any Resident Evil fans expected back in the day, and yet it is one of my favorite gaming experience of all time. I almost forgot about that.

God of War games are also very fun to replay over and over again, because the QTE are made fun too. I especially love the ones on the PSP made by Ready At Dawn (ironic I know).

I guess the game can be fun if the gameplay and QTE are mixed just right.
Hell, I guess QTE can be fun if they made it fun.

There's however one QTE that I really don't like in the E3 showcase.

Come on, that's just dumb.

That's my favorite one, lol. It clearly uses the same buttons you use for shooting webs in regular gameplay, so it should feel natural. It just gives you a different perspective on the action for a few seconds.

 

[Soul of the Beast]

Nah i think understood it. He wants the QTE symbols to look more like this:

instead of this:

Where's your Snake avatar, Sn4ke-san?

 

[Markitron]

RE4 is full of QTEs. There's a boss fight that's literarily a series of QTEs for about 10 minutes. Your memory isn't great.

Full of QTE's?

2 boulder dash's
Tied up with Luis
Chief Mendez Fight
Knight Corridor
Salazar encounter
Giant Statue Run
Krauser Fight
It Fight
Laser Corridor

I'm sure I'm missing a few but a 15-18 hour game with 10-15 QTE's is hardly what I would consider to be full of them. And that fight is nowhere near 10 minutes.

 

[Sn4ke_911]

Where's your Snake avatar, Sn4ke-san?

Dead like the MGS series.

 

[veloxStrix]

I've actually never been bothered by QTEs ever, provided they are actually functional. I'd like to believe, like most people tend to, that the majority of people actually agree with me and don't care but it's hard to really prove that.

 

[RoadHazard]

Actually no, I proceeded to talk about how I don't like the presentation of the QTEs juxtaposed against the photo realistic graphics and I would prefer instead, that the devs adopt a more modern approach. By instead going for minimalism and relying on player intuition

The two screenshots you posted make it seems like you're comparing them and saying the Uncharted example is a QTE done right, while the Spidey one is a QTE done wrong. But the Spidey one isn't even a QTE.

Maybe you meant to highlight it as a positive example, but in that case you need to try to bring your points across better in your posts. I'm not the only person who was confused.

 

[Gravy Boat]

Full of QTE's?

2 boulder dash's
Tied up with Luis
Chief Mendez Fight
Knight Corridor
Salazar encounter
Giant Statue Run
Krauser Fight
It Fight
Laser Corridor

I'm sure I'm missing a few but a 15-18 hour game with 10-15 QTE's is hardly what I would consider to be full of them. And that fight is nowhere near 10 minutes.

You're forgetting the Del Lago fight, which was almost entire QTEs aside from the harpoon throwing. It's a lot more than most other 15-18 hour games have, especially at the time.

 

[Puruzi]

Yea ppl are really confusing a vocal minority message boards to the overarching public.

Yep, becoming pretty silly at this point

 

[Drey1082]

It's insomniac, I'm not overly worried

Agreed. While that demo being qt event heavy was a bit disappointing, we have to remember that this is one of the best studios out there. Their last action game, sunset overdrive, was great. I have no doubt this will be as well.

 

[ComradeZero]

People won't read this and will continue to complain unfortunately. Twitter turns people into whiny brats.

I'm sure the game will shut them up for good though lol. Looks amazing.

 

[Seventy70]

Its not even a weak showing its the most viewed trailer at E3 by millions. Neogaf is a vocal minority.

I thought was a weak showing

People are allowed to have their own initial impressions. The defense for this game is awfully knee-jerk. Maybe people are just reacting on how they feel based on what they saw? It's neither right or wrong to have an opinion.

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

I've actually never been bothered by QTEs ever, provided they are actually functional. I'd like to believe, like most people tend to, that the majority of people actually agree with me and don't care but it's hard to really prove that.

I doubt many ppl are the first thought running thru someone's mind isn't o look at that a Qte game is a fail, it's holy crap this looks so good it's like I'm playing the movie
Source:Watching casuals react to Spider-Man PS4

Actually had no idea ppl were making a big deal out of it until I logged online Day after e3

 

[Soul of the Beast]

That's my favorite one, lol. It clearly uses the same buttons you use for shooting webs in regular gameplay, so it should feel natural. It just gives you a different perspective on the action for a few seconds.

If they could remove the big blue prompts it would be a lot more brilliant.

 

[Sande]

Sure, but that screenshot isn't of such a part. It's of Spidey swinging and zipping through the city, and the round indicator shows where he can zip to.

That's right. That mechanic works like the rope in Uncharted 4. I was speaking about the demo in general and not specifically what Crossing Eden (mistakenly?) linked.

Yes, and that second part wouldn't be possible to do in regular gameplay. They'd have to scrap it, make it much less intense, or make it a cutscene. They chose to add some interaction to it.

I definitely wouldn't call it less intense. I've seen enough well made action scenes and QTE snooze-fests to always side with the former.

 

[Timeaisis]

The point isn't that the setpiece makes the QTE not a QTE, it's that because the QTE occurred in the context of a setpiece it is ostensibly not a major component of normal gameplay.

Yeah, I get it. We will just have to see. And I still think it's a non answer.

 

[WrenchNinja]

I mean it's the section of the game they decided to show off. So you can't blame people for extrapolating this from what they chose to show off. Glad to see that it won't be a prominent part of the game though.

I mean, yeah, you can blame people for being dumb and ignoring everything else from the demo.

 

[Crossing Eden]

The second image is a QTE because you have to time the press of the button to when it centers on the X, and the visual provides a "countdown" reference.

The first image isn't a timed event, it's proximity sensitive actions, like the fighting in this game, or batman, or yakuza.

You can't switch the icons because their design is fundamental to their action.

That's exactly the reason why i'd want it changed in the first place instead of a random button...I press the web button outside or inside the set piece and Spiderman does the web. That's the nature of QTEs for the most part these days. I would trust the player under pressure to know, "oh that's the symbol for web swinging" compared to "oh that's...X..(which has a different function than web slinging cause circle and triangle were both used there?)"

Nah i think understood it. He wants the QTE symbols to look more like this:

instead of this:

 

[Zen_Arcade]

Then you'd sit there and just watch a cutscene.

Yall really make a big deal over the small shit. 95% of that demo was you controlling the character. Then you had a small QTE sequence to stop a crane and Heli from falling.


Seriously people complaining about this are really digging deep.

Most people don't care about QTE's. They didn't car about em in God of War, MGS Rising, and it won't be an issue here.

Honestly I'd rather just watch the cutscene if me not pressing the buttons results in a game over. Because otherwise a mistake just results in replaying an unskippable cutscene (Which is typically frowned upon and seen as bad game design in itself). It's not like QTEs are particularly engaging or fun.

If you're going to give me a sequence that is already 99% spectacle you might as well just go all the way so me accidentally pressing triangle instead of cross doesn't result in me having to watch what is essentially a cut scene again.