Clinton514
Member
I was going to say something similar but didn't bother. We can all sit here all day pretending to know how Konami created the game.Metalmurphy said:
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Installing game every Act (MGS4). Is this a good trend of game loading?
- Thread starter gconsole
- Start date
Zedsdeadbaby
Banned
chubigans said:
Sigh. If it's too hard for you to keep up, don't bother trying to laugh it off. You went into a small ramble about how you'd rather have multiple installs over disc changing as an attempt to argue with why I think people saying installations is a good thing is just fanboyism. I mean, those two aren't even related. So.... what does disc changing have to do with anything? I've not said once I'd rather have multiple discs, I'd rather have one big fat install.
Pureauthor
Member
chubigans said:
It being preferable to multiple discs does not make it a good thing in and of itself, you know.
The only time I could sympathise with MGS4's installs being annoying is if you were intermittently switching between chapters for some reason. It's not like they're placed at innapropriate moments. I played an Act a day, so if they became a nuisance, I'd suggest you're rushing.
The Faceless Master said:
I disagree.
I'm also confused how GAF can say the load times aren't fast.
How long does it take to load a section in Call of Duty 4? About a minute right? And over most of the game, you're in one confined area killing enemies from point to point, spending a lot of time in one area. The area's aren't significantly larger than some of the larger area's in MGS4 (think Act 3 or some spots in Act 2).
I honestly think GAF is being ridiculous. 3 to 5 seconds to load an area or cutscene is a CLEAR upgrade from the 'standard' this generation (which is what, 10 seconds?).
I just don't understand how people can say the install doesn't improve load times.
BoilersFan23
Member
I think part of the reason may be (although I have not researched it) a dual layered DVD has a slower read speed than a single layer DVD. I'm thinking a Dual layered Blu-ray has an even slower read speed than a single layer blu-ray, which may be why we had this.
The Faceless Master
Member
kitch9 said:
Durante said:
that's the docs for a GD-7500, a completely different drive than the GDR-3120L that is in some Xbox 360 consoles.
http://www.xbins.org/nfo.php?file=xboxnfo1488.nfo
(note that the default read speed for games is rated as 12x there)
My only complaint is that I don't have a full install option. I've been going back for Big Boss rank and as such I'm replaying almost every section of the game trying to perfect things. The way it's setup now I'll reload the game instead of going into the next act if I'm not pleased with my performance in the current act... pretty annoying.
Minor complaint though, doesn't change the fact the game lived up to my very high expectations (unlike MGS2).
Minor complaint though, doesn't change the fact the game lived up to my very high expectations (unlike MGS2).
longdi
Banned
mgs4 should be a 10/10 for production quality but for the installing and loading quirk. kojipro really fucked up their streaming engine. mgs3 had a more connected world and it never struggle with loading. the chase scenes in mgs4 was quite momentum breaking.
dont forget mgo, you need to go through another round of loading just to play it.
dont forget mgo, you need to go through another round of loading just to play it.
RockmanWhore
Member
I really don't understand what they were thinking when they come up with the idea with reinstalling stuff at every single act. Why didn't they just make a big install? I haven't played MGS4 yet, but it sound extremely retarded, especially considering that the MGS games usually have tons of replay value.
That's not the "default speed". It's the maximum CAV speed for single layer discs.The Faceless Master said:
PS3's BR read speed is 9 MB/s CLV (over the whole disc)
360's DL DVD read speed is 4.36MB/s - 10.57MB/s CAV (varying from center to outer parts of the disc, average ~7.93MB/s)
Though I'm not 100% sure if DL BR's are slower or not. But since nearly all 360 games from here on out will be DL and very few PS3 games will be DL BR it shouldn't matter much.
Pureauthor
Member
RockmanWhore said:
Read the thread.
I don't mind it at all, but I never had a problem with multiple disc games either. They made me feel like I was getting more "bang for my buck" 
I don't think its either good or bad, its just a different way of storing information/taking advantage of this gen of systems with hard drives.
I don't think its either good or bad, its just a different way of storing information/taking advantage of this gen of systems with hard drives.
Absolutely not. Do any of you have siblings/other people who play on the same console? The problem is horrifically exacerbated by the fact that I was playing MGS4 alongside my brother and we were consistently at different parts of the game. (i.e. each of us has to wait 3 minutes every time we want to play) I literally had over an hour of installing during my MGS4 playthrough. I understand the idea, but, please, at least give us the option to do one big install upfront.
It's not a good thing and I can't see how some of you can claim that it is. I see why it's necessary though.
This issue also shows just how big a technical achievement GTA 4 is. No installs, one short load time when you boot it up and you're good to go in a game world that's absolutely huge. They could've been lazy and made the game load every time you cross one of the briges between the islands but they didn't.
Maybe Kojima will be able to do something similar in his next game.
This issue also shows just how big a technical achievement GTA 4 is. No installs, one short load time when you boot it up and you're good to go in a game world that's absolutely huge. They could've been lazy and made the game load every time you cross one of the briges between the islands but they didn't.
Maybe Kojima will be able to do something similar in his next game.
MrTroubleMaker
Member
yep, its kind of the same when you do a speed run and multiple play's though, the time really adds uptraveler said:
I didn't mind sitting through these screens on my first play through - but for replays it is really annoying, especially when you wanna jump between different points in the game. Why couldn't they include an option to leave the previous installations on your hd.
Also, these installations prevent the possibility of a demo theater and I guess boss rush mode which is a real let down.
That said mgs4 is up there with smg, mgs3 and re4 in terms of the best games I have played in the last few years
Also, these installations prevent the possibility of a demo theater and I guess boss rush mode which is a real let down.
That said mgs4 is up there with smg, mgs3 and re4 in terms of the best games I have played in the last few years
The Faceless Master
Member
pretty sure that's not the case as a 2x BR is read speed is required for BR movie playback...BoilersFan23 said:
Tain said:
Halo isn't seamless at all. There is a long ass load time when you start it up followed by several short ones in between levels. The levels themselves are seamless though unlike MGS (that's just a game design decision).
EDIT:
@ GTA 4 load time
It's two minutes at most. That's not long at all, especially since the rest of the game is seamless. There isn't even a main menu or something, it drops you right into the game.
radioheadrule83
Banned
traveler said:
This was my exact same situation. My younger brother (he's 21, I'm 24) would play it after me, he'd have to install the earlier act, I'd go on and I'd have to reinstall mine. Its total crap.
Even the GTA install pissed me off. Is Blu-Ray slow or something? Why can't they just load/stream from disc? Do many games do this on Xbox?
The Faceless Master
Member
rfus said:I didn't mind sitting through these screens on my first play through - but for replays it is really annoying, especially when you wanna jump between different points in the game. Why couldn't they include an option to leave the previous installations on your hd.
Also, these installations prevent the possibility of a demo theater and I guess boss rush mode which is a real let down.
That said mgs4 is up there with smg, mgs3 and re4 in terms of the best games I have played in the last few years
I kinda wonder why they didnt just encode all the cinematics in HD video and have them available to watch. They did have 15 GB extra on the disc, after all...
My biggest complaint about the separate installs of MGS4 is that it eliminates a "Theater mode" where you can easily watch every cuscene of the game.
I would have preferred it if Kojima would have gone for one bigger install. I can see why they didn't, though. In the current climate of the console war, I don't want to imagine the bad press a longer more HDD space consuming install would have gotten. Even the GTA IV install warranted a Microsoft press release...
I would have preferred it if Kojima would have gone for one bigger install. I can see why they didn't, though. In the current climate of the console war, I don't want to imagine the bad press a longer more HDD space consuming install would have gotten. Even the GTA IV install warranted a Microsoft press release...
Konami should really ask Sony to lift the 5GB install limit just for MGS4 so they can release a patch for the game that allows us to to choose either to install the whole game or use the default installation method. I just recently replaced my PS3's 60GB HDD to a 320GB one so space is not an issue for me.
I don't mind the act installing, but it's a shame that it wasn't possible to create a full world for every act. The change of zone is too distracting and affects too much to my suspension of disbelief and feeling of immersion. Much better than MGS 3, no doubt, but still far from an ideal situation.
MrTroubleMaker
Member
radioheadrule83 said:
The 360 just uses the HDD for a cache.
People are complaining about this again?
I love the installs @ each act. Some of you have to be losers that honestly have no life or are able to get great gaming sessions(2+hrs) with NO interruptions.
Install comes out after act 1, go give gf attention for a bit, so I dont get bothered with the whole "Your ignoring me for games" bit.
Game has a load screen and I have to press start to continue when its down, awesome, I'm usually on the internet reading something that it helps me instead of pausing as I'm playing.
I love the few mins I'm allowed to breath and take care of other things. Any of you have kids? You dont have to change diapers? Get them a quick snack cuz they are crying and interrupting your experience.
No one plays @ night? Gf going to sleep and you'd like a quickie before she knocks out. Thank you for "Press Start" or install.
This shit is stupid, it caters to both sides of the spectrum. Arguments can be made for either side, shit like this should be closed.
I love the installs @ each act. Some of you have to be losers that honestly have no life or are able to get great gaming sessions(2+hrs) with NO interruptions.
Install comes out after act 1, go give gf attention for a bit, so I dont get bothered with the whole "Your ignoring me for games" bit.
Game has a load screen and I have to press start to continue when its down, awesome, I'm usually on the internet reading something that it helps me instead of pausing as I'm playing.
I love the few mins I'm allowed to breath and take care of other things. Any of you have kids? You dont have to change diapers? Get them a quick snack cuz they are crying and interrupting your experience.
No one plays @ night? Gf going to sleep and you'd like a quickie before she knocks out. Thank you for "Press Start" or install.
This shit is stupid, it caters to both sides of the spectrum. Arguments can be made for either side, shit like this should be closed.
The Faceless Master
Member
that only counts when it's capcom.Tieno said:
CrunchinJelly
formerly cjelly
I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not.oneHeero said:
That is never a good sign.
GTA4 is not any techincal achievement over MGS4.
Both games work in different ways. Every time you boot up GTA4 you have like a two minute load up time. Beyond this, GTA4 takes up 3GB+ install on an 8GB game and still has the initial 2 minute boot up. MGS4 takes about a 4.5GB install on a 30GB game.
Having said this, I would prefer one straight up install. I didn't know about the Sony 5GB TRC, so I'm disappointed to hear you have to install every time you want to play but whatever. Act 4 takes two minutes and Act 5 one minute for install so you really only have two acts with a 3 minute install.
Installing is a good thing. The only problem is the PS3 hdd isn't big enough for full scale installs so there are some restrictions. When the X720 and PS4 are out with their 500GB+ hdds it will be nice to do full installs.
I partially agree with Tycho. If all these PS3 games were to have huge installs they could have shipped the system on DVD with a massive hdd (500GB). Have a couple install discs and a gameplay disc if needed. But I also like hi def movies so I'm happy blu ray is included. Blu Ray with a 500GB hdd would be the best, and knowing I can replace my PS3 hdd for relatively cheap helps.
Both games work in different ways. Every time you boot up GTA4 you have like a two minute load up time. Beyond this, GTA4 takes up 3GB+ install on an 8GB game and still has the initial 2 minute boot up. MGS4 takes about a 4.5GB install on a 30GB game.
Having said this, I would prefer one straight up install. I didn't know about the Sony 5GB TRC, so I'm disappointed to hear you have to install every time you want to play but whatever. Act 4 takes two minutes and Act 5 one minute for install so you really only have two acts with a 3 minute install.
Installing is a good thing. The only problem is the PS3 hdd isn't big enough for full scale installs so there are some restrictions. When the X720 and PS4 are out with their 500GB+ hdds it will be nice to do full installs.
I partially agree with Tycho. If all these PS3 games were to have huge installs they could have shipped the system on DVD with a massive hdd (500GB). Have a couple install discs and a gameplay disc if needed. But I also like hi def movies so I'm happy blu ray is included. Blu Ray with a 500GB hdd would be the best, and knowing I can replace my PS3 hdd for relatively cheap helps.
It's fucking lame and one of my biggest complaints with the title. Now, if installation at each act was the solution to allow seamless play throughout each act, start to finish, I would be okay with it, but it isn't. You still have to load each and every time you enter a new area, before each cutscene, and often several times during what should be intense action sequences. It absolutely harms the immersion.
What makes it more egregious is that other titles are capable of pulling of similar sequences without chopping up the action. Imagine the jeep chase in Uncharted if after every third enemy you killed, the game needed to load. But guess what, it's a one shot chase, start to finish. Oh, and it's probably one of the best graphical sequences on consoles to date.
Loading sucks. It should be minimized. And if installs are going to be used as the method to curtail frequent loads, then they should, you know, curtail frequent loads.
What makes it more egregious is that other titles are capable of pulling of similar sequences without chopping up the action. Imagine the jeep chase in Uncharted if after every third enemy you killed, the game needed to load. But guess what, it's a one shot chase, start to finish. Oh, and it's probably one of the best graphical sequences on consoles to date.
Loading sucks. It should be minimized. And if installs are going to be used as the method to curtail frequent loads, then they should, you know, curtail frequent loads.