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Interview with Tales General Producer: "Why Tales isn't just anime bullshit"

Seda

Member
I'm a big tales fan, with Vesperia probably being my favorite and Symphonia up there too. I'm 15 hours or so into Graces f, and I do think the cast of characters is a bit weak.

I don't think Tales should really too change much from it's current style. I would, however, welcome a decent antagonist. I dislike practically all Tales antagonists.
 

Sqorgar

Banned
Aside from graphics the Tales games have made no advancements since the SNES era, that said, I was surprised at how much fun I had playing Abyss 3DS.
Wrong game series. You really want to be trolling with that in the Dynasty Warriors threads. If you want to troll Tales fans, you really need to go for the whole weaboo/animu angle.

Despite its above average gameplay, Graces is pretty anime bullshit.
See? Like this guy. He gets how to troll Tales fans.
 

djtiesto

is beloved, despite what anyone might say
Uhm.....the entire interview isn't long at all. It's just one page and half of it is a "introductory" piece by the writer. You can easily copy and paste and bold the interesting parts.

Also your TLDR part is WAY off. "Fuck off westerners" is QUITE different than:

the games in the Tales series are created first and foremost so they can be enjoyed by Japanese players. Then we give them to players outside of Japan. If we worried too much about what foreign players might think when we were developing them, we wouldn’t be able to take full advantage of our strengths as game creators. That’s our first priority — to preserve what makes the Tales series so great. It’s up to the foreign players whether they like them or not.


The way it should be. All those Japanese developed games with "Western appeal", created for Western audience went so well....

Yup, it's a breath of fresh air to read an interview like this where a Japanese developer isn't talking about how they need to appeal to the west or what have you... probably part of the reason why I think the Tales series is so good. I really wish more Japanese devs would follow this guy's mantra.

Only things I would really change about the series is streamlining the length and giving Sakuraba a kick in his ass so he stops dialing in a soundtrack (TOP had a great soundtrack, the rest of the games has been really forgettable).
 

Sqorgar

Banned
Stopped at "Extremely famous for having strong casts of characters." Because that is fucking false.
Really? I was under the impression that most Tales fans rather like the characters. That's why things like Twin Brave and Radiant Mythology exist.
 

Levyne

Banned
I will echo sentiments on Yuri finally being a good protagonist. And then we get asbel...


Dude seems perfectly reasonable in the interview, dunno why the attitude was added in the OP, it's neither funny nor faithful.

Also I wanted to echo this
 

scy

Member
But when the development schedule makes it possible, we do like to create localized versions for some titles in the hopes that players outside of Japan will hear about the series and get to like it.

:(

C'mon, all. All! At least say you'd like to do them all!
 

Rpgmonkey

Member
Sort of interesting. Mostly because it gives an idea of how they pick one or two Tales games out of a small selection to bring to the West. Not that it hasn't been somewhat obvious for a while now.

Or give us something like FF12 Gambit system.

Innocence DS.

For whatever reason it's nothing more a one-off idea though, unfortunately.

Stopped at "Extremely famous for having strong casts of characters." Because that is fucking false.

Not going to defend their quality, but a large part of the appeal of the series for a number of the fans are the characters. The series has a very common habit of stuffing a bunch of fan-service, shout-outs, and cameos into nearly every game, there's several "ensemble cast" spinoffs, and they do a couple of polls or events every now and then for fans of the characters.
 

Verelios

Member
Only liked tales of mythology.

There's something very wrong with this sentence. Have you played Symphonia? Eternia? Vesperia? Man, today has been blowing my mind.

I hope they expand on the battle system in Graces, but also keeps it going with team Symphonia's system, because I love that too.
 

Danny Dudekisser

I paid good money for this Dynex!
Not going to defend their quality, but a large part of the appeal of the series for a number of the fans are the characters. The series has a very common habit of stuffing a bunch of fan-service, shout-outs, and cameos into nearly every game, there's several "ensemble cast" spinoffs, and they do a couple of polls or events every now and then for fans of the characters.

I honestly don't understand how one could have attachment to Tales characters... The only Tales character I really remember being interesting was Yuri, from Vesperia... but after playing at least half a dozen Tales games, I'm convinced that they just have a random generator of anime tropes that spits out party members for each game. Even with the skits, I don't know how one could find enough personality in the casts to actually give a damn when they show up again in the utterly unnecessary mash-up games.
 

grandjedi6

Master of the Google Search
Aside from graphics the Tales games have made no advancements since the SNES era, that said, I was surprised at how much fun I had playing Abyss 3DS.
I'll accept this line of logic only if you also agree that all FPSs have made little advancement since Goldeneye, aside from graphics.
 

Aeana

Member
I honestly don't understand how one could have attachment to Tales characters... The only Tales character I really remember being interesting was Yuri, from Vesperia... but after playing at least half a dozen Tales games, I'm convinced that they just have a random generator of anime tropes that spits out party members for each game. Even with the skits, I don't know how one could find enough personality in the casts to actually give a damn when they show up again in the utterly unnecessary mash-up games.

Guy is afraid of women, you see.
That's hilarious. And endearing. And JYB.
 

Mxrz

Member
"We're making stuff for Japan first." "This is what Japan likes."

That's understandable. But I always wondered when "What Japan likes" changed from stuff like the old 16/32bit jrpgs into these things today. Seems like they took certain elements and went off the deep end with them, like the younger/animu characters thing.

Credit to this guy for being up front about it, and not doing the usual "We want to make what we want! Don't try to change us! But we also want a billion dollars!"
 

Danny Dudekisser

I paid good money for this Dynex!
"We're making stuff for Japan first." "This is what Japan likes."

That's understandable. But I always wondered when "What Japan likes" changed from stuff like the old 16/32bit jrpgs into these things today. Seems like they took certain elements and went off the deep end with them, like the younger/animu characters thing.

I want to point to 2006-2007 as the drop-off point for Japanese culture in general. They were doing great up until then, and then *whoosh!*

Off a fucking cliff.
 

MechaX

Member
I was expecting more "lol anime" and "wrpg vs jrpg" stuff, but most of this topic so far has just been crazy town stuff like Phantasia's battle system actually stacking up with Graces F, let alone Vesperia, Abyss, Rebirth, Destiny 2, Destiny Remake, Eternia, etc, etc.
 

Link1110

Member
It has regressed. Tales of Phantasia is the best game in the series.

Have you tried playing it any time after Eternia was released? It's pretty unplayable. Maybe if they remade it with a better battle system it would have a shot at that.

The best is either Abyss, Destiny Remake, or Graces F
 

fates

Member
There's something very wrong with this sentence. Have you played Symphonia? Eternia? Vesperia? Man, today has been blowing my mind.

Well, it's possible this person liked to be able to have a customizable hero. I kinda liked the game too, but I got a lot out of the fanservice in it, having Arche around with the ToP battle theme was awesome.

Anyways I'm kinda weird with the series. Phantasia is one of my favorite video games ever. I enjoyed Abyss a lot too. Symphonia... I tried to get into it so many times, but it just never clicked with me. I don't know why. Same for Destiny.

In Destiny's case maybe it's because I'm a sucker for Kosuke Fujishima's character work. Though, I absolutely loved Mutsumi Inomata's Dragon Quest artwork... so I dunno.
 
Seriously, how many people on gaf even played the original snes version with the hilariously awesome fan localization?

It plays nothing like any of the 3d ones o_O.

But yeah I can see the point in which the battle system hasn't really 'evolved' post symphonia.

It might just be me, but I always felt the 2d games were about "You are the main tank/warrior dude who's job is to keep the baddies off your casters". This works pretty well on a 2d plane, but it doesn't work well on a 3d plane at all.

There are tons of battle system tweaks and stuff each game, but the AI apparently aren't programmed for any of this.

Having bosses that can easily 1 hit kill a guy in Graces F, but not have the AI to be smart enough to 'dodge' those moves... is pretty frustrating.

And yeah, Tales characters are a 'mix bag', but there are a ton of them. And the skit system and w/e the one in Star Ocean needs to be in all jrpgs. Best 'innovation' out of this series by far.
 

I'm an expert

Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
This is true for any mainstream Japanese game.. they are always made for the Japanese first and foremost. It just so happened in the 90s there was a big boom for anything Japanese in pretty much every western country and this included games. I think some places like Spain and France are still ga-ga for anything Japanese. Australia was a country that was Japanese-crazy 30-40 years ago with dramas like The Samurai, but now you barely see much interest in Japanese pop culture. The west simply grew out of (up) from the Japanese boom. They are much more critical and less forgiving of stuff that comes out Japan. Not to say there still aren't plenty of fans of Japanese anything, but I have a feeling if FF13 or MGS4 or whatever had been released in 1998 it'd be considered one of the greatest games ever.
 
Weird, because most Tales games have struck me as being anime bullshit/ filled with anime cliches. Not that I have anything against it, just saying.
 

7Th

Member
When you’re trying to come up with a global strategy, it’s tempting to use gameplay or artistic expressions that can be easily accepted outside of Japan as well. But as I said earlier, the games in the Tales series are created first and foremost so they can be enjoyed by Japanese players. Then we give them to players outside of Japan. If we worried too much about what foreign players might think when we were developing them, we wouldn’t be able to take full advantage of our strengths as game creators. That’s our first priority — to preserve what makes the Tales series so great. It’s up to the foreign players whether they like them or not.

This is the best answer a Japanese developer has ever given to the ridiculous "global appeal" dilemma. Everyone else needs to learn from these guys.
 

Dark Schala

Eloquent Princess
Sorta surprised by some people saying that the series hasn't changed since Phantasia and that's straight-up false. It still uses the LMBS but with changes depending on the game you're playing. Playing multiple versions of Phantasia has made me realize that the evolution of the LMBS throughout the series since then has made the overall system better. Phantasia SFC is just all barebones, and it isn't really my style, I guess. I never liked Phantasia GBA since it was inferior to the PSX version of Phantasia.

NDX version of Phantasia does this thing where it removes the pause when spells are cast, but otherwise there aren't a lot of changes. Pause removal is a change for the better but it still doesn't make the combat very great.

With that said, Phantasia was my first Tales game and it never got me invested in the series at all. It wasn't until I'd played Symphonia after Phantasia and Destiny that I sort of started to like the series. I'd played Destiny Remake and Rebirth after that, and those hit it out of the park for me. Became a fan after I'd played those, even though Rebirth probably has one of the most hilariously bad narratives in a game I've played. Rebirth, Destiny R, Destiny 2, Hearts, and Graces are probably the best examples of evolution of the series' LMBS in general. Most of those are Udo games too.

I don't play the games for the characters or the story, but moreso for the battle system. So in a way, I somewhat understand the assessment that the characters or narratives generally aren't amazing, or are generally, er, fluffy. I don't think people will find that all Tales games will be to their liking at all since every game focuses on a different theme and has a cast to try to fit that theme while continuing to add as much Tales series fanservice in the game as possible. Many people seem to like Vesperia (well, the first two-thirds of it) partially because of the theme of justice, and Yuri's character in general; I suppose because of this, people became more invested in the game not necessarily due to being able to relate to the characters, but rather having a character who was different from the norm. I do wonder if Tales will take that approach again. It wouldn't be bad if they did.

Sort of interesting. Mostly because it gives an idea of how they pick one or two Tales games out of a small selection to bring to the West. Not that it hasn't been somewhat obvious for a while now.
Yeah, that's what I was thinking as I read through the interview. And those one or two Tales games tend to be the more story-driven games out of the series as opposed to the battle-driven ones. I'm still a little surprised they released Graces here, to be honest. I thought they would've gone ahead and released Xillia for consistency between the eastern and western markets. Also, I had a hunch that people here might like Xillia better in terms of narrative and cast...

Innocence DS.

For whatever reason it's nothing more a one-off idea though, unfortunately.
It's too bad that the dungeons aren't very good.

Then we give them to players outside of Japan. If we worried too much about what foreign players might think when we were developing them, we wouldn’t be able to take full advantage of our strengths as game creators. That’s our first priority — to preserve what makes the Tales series so great. It’s up to the foreign players whether they like them or not.
Good answer. I like that.
 
Combat > Character Building > Characters > Music > Story

There, now we know how to enjoy a good Tales game.

Tales games are fun and should stay the way they are, but maybe with better music. Sakuraba said he'd try something new next time, so we'll see.

Graces...Graces, Graces, Graces. It's like an anti-Sakuraba OST, from Sakuraba, if that's possible. Where's the thirty-second notes? Where are the rapid time changes? Buh.

I don't believe anime has to do with this. It's pretty much pure bullshit. Asbel might just be one of the worst main characters this generation.

If described, the plot and character development doesn't sound bad, but how they did it was sooooooooooo clumsy. Asbel slips back into that confortable wangsty bounce-back mode far too often. Bad voice direction, too.
 
Destiny remake? Destiny 2? Hearts? Rebirth? Graces?....

Then again we didn't get most of those titles in English.

yeah... if you go technical I guess... but you still pretty much dial in the same combo for every fight and waste life bottles to bring back up your dead AI on bosses.

And that has gotten me through pretty much all Tales games.
 

Bebpo

Banned
So many trolls in this thread, jesus christ. Namco should just leave Tales in Japan if this is what they get for bringing them over.

Tales has advanced A TON over the years. Go back and play Phantasia Full Voice on PSP (based off the most advanced Phantasia PSX version), it plays like shit, is missing all the great gameplay sub-systems, and the character development and storyline depth pale in comparison to modern games.

Tales keeps advancing and pushing the combat, the character growth systems (though sometimes a title goes a step back and then another one goes forward again here; looking at you titles-usage), the character development. The only place where it hasn't really advanced is in storytelling and that's mainly because some of the games have ok plots and some have bad ones. At least with Graces/Xillia they've advanced in cutscene direction.

I'm not even as big of Tales fan as I used to be. I dropped Xillia and still haven't played ToI-R much, but it's a good series and one of the FEW jrpg franchises that keeps putting out quality games.

And the combat is the best real-time combat you're going to get. Especially with Graces (begrudgingly the 2nd or 3rd best is probably Star Ocean 3, even though I hate the combat in that game). If your AI characters are dying all the time, then you didn't learn how to play the game correctly. Tales gives you the MOST control over your party in battle compared to any other realtime rpg. You can set their AIs, you can command them to do something instantly, and you can switch between them and directly do something at any time. Complaining about Tales AI is so 2001.
 

Sqorgar

Banned
Weird, because most Tales games have struck me as being anime bullshit/ filled with anime cliches. Not that I have anything against it, just saying.
Saying that Tales is anime bullshit/filled with anime cliches is like saying Mass Effect is filled with space marine cliches. It's true, but it's a gross simplification.

One thing I think a lot of people don't understand is that Japan is a different culture. The tropes that inspire them and fill them with heartfelt confidence and admiration, we may look at as shallow and stupid because we don't have the same background or day to day living experiences. The Tales games do not choose to work outside of the tried and true tropes, but that's okay. Skyrim didn't either. There's nothing wrong with genre works.

You either like it or you don't, but I think it's unfair to blame a Japanese RPG for being too Japanese RPG-y. Personally, of the anime bullshit JRPGs out there, I think the Tales games have a particular style and substance that puts them well above 'generic', even when compared against other Tales games.

Tales has advanced A TON over the years. Go back and play Phantasia Full Voice on PSP (based off the most advanced Phantasia PSX version), it plays like shit, is missing all the great gameplay sub-systems, and the character development and storyline depth pale in comparison to modern games.
It's becoming increasingly obvious that Tales games now occupy the same Western respect threshold as the Dynasty Warriors games. Fans can go into infinite detail about the differences between various iterations - even between different ports of the same game - while the rest of the people just go "meh, they are all the same" (because they played two of them and they were more similar to each other than any other game, and therefore, all the games in the entire series must be identical).
 
It's becoming increasingly obvious that Tales games now occupy the same Western respect threshold as the Dynasty Warriors games. Fans can go into infinite detail about the differences between various iterations - even between different ports of the same game - while the rest of the people just go "meh, they are all the same" (because they played two of them and they were more similar to each other than any other game, and therefore, all the games in the entire series must be identical).

To be fair, besides minutia's in combat system (which you can just spam an effective combo and beat most games) the rest of the 'game' does follow a similar 'path' each game in terms of story progression/setup, world design, character tropes, skits, etc. It really isn't that much different from your typical CoD title for people that aren't die hard fans. Heck there are even different 'dev teams' that each have their pros and cons.
 
This is a guy I can get behind. In an era of Japanese development where some big names choose to jump ship and ape the West, I love seeing Japanese developers confident not only in their games, but in their market and fans.

The Tales series has been developed with Japanese players in mind, so achieving success in Japan is a major goal for us. But when the development schedule makes it possible, we do like to create localized versions for some titles in the hopes that players outside of Japan will hear about the series and get to like it. While Japanese consumers remain a priority for us, as long as certain conditions are met, we do plan to continue releasing localized versions of our games for our fans outside of Japan.

So you mean...a game can be a huge success for a developer/publisher even if it doesn't acheive mainstream success in the US?

It is true that the number of teenage JRPG players is higher in Japan than elsewhere, but I wouldn’t say that teenagers are the main audience overall. We think of people in their late teens and early twenties as being the main audience for JRPGs. As for the issue of young protagonists in JRPGs, this is just my personal opinion, but characters in Japanese anime have traditionally been relatively young, so having grown up watching this kind of anime, I think we Japanese don’t feel that having young protagonists in JRPGs is particularly unusual.

So...It's not some sick sexual perversion? Just a cultural preference? Who'da thunk.

When you’re trying to come up with a global strategy, it’s tempting to use gameplay or artistic expressions that can be easily accepted outside of Japan as well. But as I said earlier, the games in the Tales series are created first and foremost so they can be enjoyed by Japanese players. Then we give them to players outside of Japan. If we worried too much about what foreign players might think when we were developing them, we wouldn’t be able to take full advantage of our strengths as game creators. That’s our first priority — to preserve what makes the Tales series so great. It’s up to the foreign players whether they like them or not.

I'm bolding this entire paragraph because I feel it's the most important part of the entire interview, and something I've been spouting in threads like these for ages. Japanese developing for Japanese. Seeking success in Japan is a legitimate business model. If some in the West catch on, good for them. If not, then these games simply aren't for you.

...

This interview made up my mind on whether or not to buy Graces f. There. Bought.
 

udivision

Member
Or any japanese game.

Along with several variations of

"(Insert name here)..."

"At this rate..."
"You don't mean that technique, do you?"
"That guy..."

This is a guy I can get behind. In an era of Japanese development where some big names choose to jump ship and ape the West, I love seeing Japanese developers confident not only in their games, but in their market and fans.



So you mean...a game can be a huge success for a developer/publisher even if it doesn't acheive mainstream success in the US?



So...It's not some sick sexual perversion? Just a cultural preference? Who'da thunk.



I'm bolding this entire paragraph because I feel it's the most important part of the entire interview, and something I've been spouting in threads like these for ages. Japanese developing for Japanese. Seeking success in Japan is a legitimate business model. If some in the West catch on, good for them. If not, then these games simply aren't for you.

...

This interview made up my mind on whether or not to buy Graces f. There. Bought.

But if it gets to the point where none of the japan-o-centric games come over, then I think we still lose.
 

Moodkip

Member
i've never enjoyed the Tales games for the stories/characters. no matter what way you spin it, it really is typical anime bullpoop.


I honestly don't understand how one could have attachment to Tales characters... The only Tales character I really remember being interesting was Yuri, from Vesperia... but after playing at least half a dozen Tales games, I'm convinced that they just have a random generator of anime tropes that spits out party members for each game. Even with the skits, I don't know how one could find enough personality in the casts to actually give a damn when they show up again in the utterly unnecessary mash-up games.

^^ this basically describes how i feel about the scenario presentation of Tales games. 1 dimensional characters, predictable plot twists, just nothing particularly outstanding at all.

having said that, i absolutely adore the series for the gameplay alone, i would even place it in my top 3 favorite rpg series. i wish there were more jrpg's like it, if for nothing else because we would get more of them localized (curse you scamco!).
 
Really? I was under the impression that most Tales fans rather like the characters. That's why things like Twin Brave and Radiant Mythology exist.
It's not an impression . With so many spin off and cross over the characters are the most liked things between fans.. How to explains 7 radiant games ,twin brave , Versus and 3 "Tales of fandom" otherwise ?

This is a guy I can get behind. In an era of Japanese development where some big names choose to jump ship and ape the West, I love seeing Japanese developers confident not only in their games, but in their market and fans.



So you mean...a game can be a huge success for a developer/publisher even if it doesn't acheive mainstream success in the US?



So...It's not some sick sexual perversion? Just a cultural preference? Who'da thunk.



I'm bolding this entire paragraph because I feel it's the most important part of the entire interview, and something I've been spouting in threads like these for ages. Japanese developing for Japanese. Seeking success in Japan is a legitimate business model. If some in the West catch on, good for them. If not, then these games simply aren't for you.

...

This interview made up my mind on whether or not to buy Graces f. There. Bought.

I agree with you A tales of that would try to appeal to the west would be a clear fail in my book .. the serie is great for what it is ..and they shouldn't change that approach

It's becoming increasingly obvious that Tales games now occupy the same Western respect threshold as the Dynasty Warriors games. Fans can go into infinite detail about the differences between various iterations - even between different ports of the same game - while the rest of the people just go "meh, they are all the same" (because they played two of them and they were more similar to each other than any other game, and therefore, all the games in the entire series must be identical).

NOt when different teams are making those games and are clearly different in term of gameplay ..Even to the untrained eye , the difference between Graces & Abyss is enormous..
 
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