PetriP-TNT
Member
Sucks for New Vegas devs
REQUIREMENTS
• Credit on at least one game with an 85+ Average Meta Critic Review Score.
No surprise, Ken Levine always rubbed me the wrong way whenever doing media presentations.
So, now for the questions:
1.) Do you think it's a good idea to hire with a metacritic requirement?
2.) So, their multiplayer component is sounding larger than originally expected (or it's very large in their next title). Any thoughts on what it is?
Sucks for New Vegas devs
sales should matter only...
if metacritic affects sales judge the game from sales...
but sometimes games get low scores and still sell
Yes. It doesn't matter whether it was competence or incompetence that led to the high score. The score doesn't reflect a game's quality, it reflects the amount of free PR the gaming press will muster. It's a matter of staying cost-effective. If this variable can be determined, the in-house ad budget can be extrapolated more easily.[...]
1.) Do you think it's a good idea to hire with a metacritic requirement?
[...]
Sigh...as if a design manager really has that much control over the review scores. PR and Marketing are more than 50% of the fight.
Over on Gamasutra's job boards, an ad recently popped up that has become a topic of debate over the course of the past couple days.
Irrational Games, best known for excellent games like System Shock 2 and BioShock, is looking for a new design manager. Included are several requirements:
"Six-plus years as a game designer." Ok, they're looking for someone with good experience. "Four-plus years of experience managing direct reports." Alright then. "Shipped a minimum of three games from pre-production through ship." Good, good.
"Credit on at least one game with an 85+ average Metacritic review score." Wait what?
So here's the question posed to Gamasutra and Game Developer staff: Should game developers base any of their hiring requirements on Metacritic scores?
(Apparently, Irrational answered the question just a few hours ago -- the company removed the requirement from the job ad as we were formulating this article.)
I can certainly see the appeal of including a Metacritic filter in your hiring process; it'd narrow down the number of resumes you'd have to read to only people who have worked on a critically acclaimed title, like N.O.V.A. 2 (90), Trainyard (90), Pizza vs. Skeletons (90), Sonic & SEGA All-Stars Racing (89), NHL Eastside Hockey Manager 2007 (89), or Pinball FX 2: Marvel Pinball - Avengers Chronicles (88). That way, you don't have to deal with all the folks who worked on games that didn't do so well with reviewers: Saints Row: The Third (84), Crysis 2 (84), Marvel vs. Capcom 3 (84), Fallout: New Vegas (84), Borderlands (84), DOOM II (83), Mario Kart 64 (83), Homeworld 2 (83), Mega Man 9 (83), Superbrothers: Sword & Sworcery EP (83), Rock Band (82), Gradius V (82), S.T.A.L.K.E.R.: Shadow of Chernobyl (82), Brutal Legend (82), Tekken 6 (82), Super Smash Bros. (79)...the list goes on.
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/174829/Ask_Gamasutra_84_Metacritic_need_not_apply.php
Here's what one of the Gamasutra editors had to say about this, which I thought made sense in regards to the requirement from Irrational:
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/174829/Ask_Gamasutra_84_Metacritic_need_not_apply.php
Here's what one of the Gamasutra editors had to say about this, which I thought made sense in regards to the requirement from Irrational:
i think we're making too much of this. it's probably just a way to thin out the possible applicants; i imagine if you worked on Fallout: New Vegas they're not going to say "oh, that didn't break 85 did it? hm, shame. get out." i mean, what else are they going to say to get the same result? "had to have worked on a good game"?
Why would that be a requirement at all? Plenty of talented people get stuck making bad games due to the company they're with. If you can demonstrate telent, it shouldn't matter what you did before and that's what portfolios are for.
If you are the best programmer in the world but you worked on a game that was shitty other than the impeccable programming, Irrational doesn't want you? It doesn't make sense and it's not an appropriate way to weed out applicants in my opinion.
Do you feel people at ILM who work on Avatar or Transformers are incapable of making good animation though?
Because both of those are below 85 on the Rotten Tomatoes score.
I can understand wanting like AAA experience since that's different than an art game, but a Metacritic score seems to miss what the person actually does.
do you have a better idea? because "must demonstrate talent" isn't it
My suggestion would be someone that knows something about programming go over applicants instead of an HR person. I realize that programming leads or art leads or whatever are very busy but the HR person simply isn't qualified to weed out applicants in these technical fields.
that does nothing to thin out the number of applicants, which is the goal here
your suggestion is just to get a more qualified person to go over the applicants instead of anything that will actually reduce the number. i imagine that Irrational gets SWAMPED whenever they have a job opening
On the plus side if you worked on Resistance 2 you can get this job.
That was my immediate reaction. But surely, there must be ways to communicate that without referencing metacritic.I don't see what's wrong with that, especially since Gamerankings/Metacritic are likely a tighter indicator of future sales than Metacritic for music or movies.
Should Jan Balej hire animators with blockbuster experience to make a feature-length The Little Fish Girl? No, because he has grants and a focus on creating art. Should Pixar? Sure. They push product that needs to meet financial expectations.
Nirolak, as you yourself pointed out, it's likely that the score is not meant to validate how good the game was. Taken in context, it's likely code for, "has managed the sort of blockbuster title that receives high review scores all of the time."
That said, those hiring practices are an unfortunate comment on an artform I really adore. I wish they wouldn't.
Wat?
*looks up on metacritic*
oh no. What a joke. It's like the GTA IV metacritic rating. How did they manage to get 87?
I think it's a way for people with no knowledge of the fields to find someone who is qualified for the job which it doesn't do at all. You could be a terrible programmer and still have worked on an 85+ metacritic game.
I don't know if I should applaud him for doing the work and looking up shit Metacritic got wrong, or shame him for implying that anything below 84 "didn't do so well with reviewers". 8-10 scale in full effect.Patrick Miller said:I can certainly see the appeal of including a Metacritic filter in your hiring process; it'd narrow down the number of resumes you'd have to read to only people who have worked on a critically acclaimed title, like N.O.V.A. 2 (90), Trainyard (90), Pizza vs. Skeletons (90), Sonic & SEGA All-Stars Racing (89), NHL Eastside Hockey Manager 2007 (89), or Pinball FX 2: Marvel Pinball - Avengers Chronicles (88). That way, you don't have to deal with all the folks who worked on games that didn't do so well with reviewers: Saints Row: The Third (84), Crysis 2 (84), Marvel vs. Capcom 3 (84), Fallout: New Vegas (84), Borderlands (84), DOOM II (83), Mario Kart 64 (83), Homeworld 2 (83), Mega Man 9 (83), Superbrothers: Sword & Sworcery EP (83), Rock Band (82), Gradius V (82), S.T.A.L.K.E.R.: Shadow of Chernobyl (82), Brutal Legend (82), Tekken 6 (82), Super Smash Bros. (79)...the list goes on.
do you really think it's more likely that a terrible programmer worked on a "great" game than a great programmer worked on a "great" game? it's an easy way to weed out the bad ones AND reduce the number of applicants, whether you agree with it or not. none of your suggestions do the same. asking for general experience is not the same as asking for experience on a "great" game; you can easily have shipped 5 games over several years for one of those companies that doles out the Wii shovelware
So it's the only way then? I guess they're still doing it in the background then so they're being pretty disingenuous by dropping the requirement like they did.
I don't know if I should applaud him for doing the work and looking up shit Metacritic got wrong, or shame him for implying that anything below 84 "didn't do so well with reviewers". 8-10 scale in full effect.
Also, Sonic & Sega All Star Racing was awesome.
Did they apologize yet?
Then they should've kept it and not wuss into the pressure like they did?For what?
Is their job conditions, they can ask any kind of working experience requisite.
Totally deserved. Doom 1 was the better game by a good country mile. Only good thing about 2 was the double barrelled shotguns, the level design was worse and the whole game was brown.Doom 2 is only 83 what the fuck
Patrick Miller said:I can certainly see the appeal of including a Metacritic filter in your hiring process; it'd narrow down the number of resumes you'd have to read to only people who have worked on a critically acclaimed title, like ....Pinball FX 2: Marvel Pinball - Avengers Chronicles (88).
Why do people think there are hundred of applicants?that does nothing to thin out the number of applicants, which is the goal here
Shawn was hired as an Associate Producer, then learned the tools (Unreal) and became a level designer.didn't irrational hire Shawn Elliott, a journalist with zero dev experience, to be a level designer?
Sigh...as if a design manager really has that much control over the review scores. PR and Marketing are more than 50% of the fight.
New Freedom Force of course.