phosphor112
Banned
As a game it sucks, but the story was phenomenal. To be honest, it's not super gory, but it's just the context of the situations that make it impactful.
Mind fucking blown, right?
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Is anyone feeling very differently after completing Spec Ops: The Line?
- Thread starter RustyNails
- Start date
As a game it sucks, but the story was phenomenal. To be honest, it's not super gory, but it's just the context of the situations that make it impactful.
Mind fucking blown, right?
Feeling no different. Game itself was very bland I felt, but the head trip aspects of the game were well done and Yager deserves props for making a different type of shooter in this "Me too" generation.
Can't say I picked up on many of the little details others have pointed out in the thread. Some of them are pretty neat, so that's a possible reason to go back and play this on easy at some point I guess (Initial play through was on hard)
Can't say I picked up on many of the little details others have pointed out in the thread. Some of them are pretty neat, so that's a possible reason to go back and play this on easy at some point I guess (Initial play through was on hard)
This is basically my thoughts on the game. Senseless violence yadda yadda people do what they're told in videogames because they want to... play the rest of the game.
N
Noray
Unconfirmed Member
Yes. I was thoroughly impressed with everything the game had to say and went in knowing that the game was essentially a subversion.
dragonbane
Member
Yeah it changed my whole life.
Not really. But it was fun
I'm a bit suprised at the one-and-done agreement overall in this thread. I've seen a ton of praise for it on GAF as well, so it's probably coincidence that the first several posters were unimpressed, but still. I thought more vocal proponents would exist.
Like many others, I was unimpressed. It was a mildly-interesting story (which is more than most games can say), and details like the degradation of the character model were kind of nice. But that's basically it. I don't plan to read the book that was written about it, or anything like that.
Like many others, I was unimpressed. It was a mildly-interesting story (which is more than most games can say), and details like the degradation of the character model were kind of nice. But that's basically it. I don't plan to read the book that was written about it, or anything like that.
I know what you mean. It's on purpose. There's more to it, trust me.
I'm not saying put down Vanquish or BD to play it, but you should get around to finishing it. It's a 4 hour game, it's not that much of an investment. You should at least just finish it so you can have a valid opinion rather than a snap judgment on a game that does not respond well to snap judgments.
I just did my 3rd playthrough of the game last week (1 sitting, 3 hours) and noticed many details I missed out on even the second.
throwawayname
Member
Nope.
Tummi Gummi
Member
Same. Finished the game and was like...OK? I didn't think any of the plot twists were very effective, I didn't find any of the characters particularly memorable or compelling, and the "subversion" didn't say anything insightful or clever, it merely made the same observation that everyone with the ability to mentally compartmentalize has already made themselves.
Cut off from all that, it was probably the worst cover shooter I've played in my life, which is a hell of an achievement. But I guess it was meant to be shit in order to satirize shit games, so...yay?
If people liked that about it, fine. I can't objectively defend Alan Wake for doing something similar with pulp crime/horror - I just thought one worked and the other didn't. *shrug*
jim-jam bongs
Member
I was already there honestly. Great game though.
Even I wasn't aware of some of this. This post is the first time I've ever noticed the trigger finger.
Prophet Steve
Member
Holy shit, I also did not notice almost all of this.
DanteRavenkin
Member
After hearing about how good this game was, I finally played it when it was up on PS+. I went from start to finish in ONE SITTING. This game was so amazing to me, not just because it pulled off some of the craziest bullshit in a game, ever. But because it did something different. Like Bioshock 1, it took genre/gaming conventions and turned them on their heads.
And to the OP, I hear you about that game messing you up. I'm pretty good with dealing with death of all sorts (I've worked as a mortician and coronor's assistant) but what happened in that game got to me. I live with a professional counsellor/therapist, and she said I was displaying indications of mild PTSD (Flashbacks and such). If that's the case, I have a truly renewed concern for all the world's veterans.
That is some serious detail that I did not notice my first time through. I'll pay more attention on the second runs.
Also, given the topic at hand, how odd that your name is Phosphor....
And to the OP, I hear you about that game messing you up. I'm pretty good with dealing with death of all sorts (I've worked as a mortician and coronor's assistant) but what happened in that game got to me. I live with a professional counsellor/therapist, and she said I was displaying indications of mild PTSD (Flashbacks and such). If that's the case, I have a truly renewed concern for all the world's veterans.
That is some serious detail that I did not notice my first time through. I'll pay more attention on the second runs.
Also, given the topic at hand, how odd that your name is Phosphor....
It's still above average, though.
The scenario design is interesting and it's nice to play a shooter where the enemies aren't bullet sponges. There is some weight to the fighting, it's easy to die and it's easy to kill.
Squad mate AI is generally good if you give them proper orders.
Cover feels a bit wonky, but I was actually replaying Gears this weekend and realized I had fonder memories of Gears than what is really the case, which painted Spec Ops in an odd light for me when I first played it. Many of the issues with the controls and mechanics of a cover-based TPS that I have with Spec Ops can are also in Gears that I just forgot about over the last 6 years.
It doesn't do anything new for the genre, gameplay wise, but it's still more than competent on the level of the other heavyweights of third person shooting. But people expect more in 2012 than they were playing in 2006, I get that.
RustyNails
Member
FunkyPajamas
Member
Pretty much. If the gameplay was above average, I'm glad I don't play too many shooters. It was horrible. Story was ok. I'm usually a sucker for crazy plot twists but The Line's had practically no impact on me.
The attention to detail was pretty cool though.
electricpirate
Member
It's made me much more conscious of what certain games are actually saying about me, both intentionally and unintentionally. I mean, I haven't stopped playing my fun little power fantasies, but I recognize the tropes much more quickly. Fundamentally, though, I think I was impressed. The impact the games story had on me couldn't have been accomplished as effectively in other mediums, so that's pretty cool.
It did remind me how much I hate covershoots too, but that's neither here nor there.
It did remind me how much I hate covershoots too, but that's neither here nor there.
Most shooters are horrible, yes. My opinion that Spec Ops' gameplay is above average speaks more to how poor the quality of this generation has been than how good Spec Ops is.
Pretty much. I did not feel sick.. especially during the final moments you can fire your weapon.
One of the best games I ever played on Story alone, first game ever that makes me question some stuff outside of the game itself, like for example making me think what I would do in a real life situation if I was there, completly forgot it was game and instead thought it was a real story somehow for a moment.
This game devs are into somethign great.
This game devs are into somethign great.
Flame Lord
Member
Spec ops didn't really make me feel much of anything. Even at that scene I just though "Well damn." and moved on.
Edit: Though I did feel a little something at that part where
Edit: Though I did feel a little something at that part where
it looked like you'd have to gun down the angry crowd of civilians.
i think the most important thing spec ops did was convincingly shatter the gameplay-narrative divide. it's not a game with a story, it's a game that is a story. it is wrong to talk about them as though they are discrete entities, and that is something i think only a few conceptual indie games have done to date
TheJollyCorner
Member
love this post... and the game.
Yeah, I don't disagree with that. Not too many shooters I've enjoyed purely for the gameplay this gen.
I knew some spoilers about Spec Ops, and it was horrifying seeing what was happening, enough that I ended up just quitting the game. I think it's really powerful, but I just don't want to do or experience some of the stuff that happens in the game, the same way I have no desire to see Stalingrad, even though it's arguably one of the most powerful films ever made.
I think a lot of your reaction depends on whether or not it happened to hook you, which I've seen in other games.
For me, Heavy Rain was a super powerful game, because I just bought into it in the first scene and I was along for the ride. I have friends who played it and just make fun of it.
I played half of Ico with one friend who was like "this is the most moving game experience you'll even have," then finished it with another who kept yelling "get over here, Stella!" anytime I summoned Yorda.
I think a lot of your reaction depends on whether or not it happened to hook you, which I've seen in other games.
For me, Heavy Rain was a super powerful game, because I just bought into it in the first scene and I was along for the ride. I have friends who played it and just make fun of it.
I played half of Ico with one friend who was like "this is the most moving game experience you'll even have," then finished it with another who kept yelling "get over here, Stella!" anytime I summoned Yorda.
phosphor112
Banned
Messofanego
Banned
This is not a LTTP thread where I give a semi-review or something, even though I finished the game last week. It's about recollecting your thoughts on the game's impact. I mentioned in the Spec Ops thread a week ago that I finished the game, and it really affected me so much that I want to pause gaming for a while.
I don't know. I don't think even Apocalypse Now or any other psychologically mindfuck war movie made me feel this way. It put a whole new perspective on what essentially is press-x-to-shoot polygons in a videogame. For example, I did NOT need to execute any member of the 33rd that was groaning in pain after being shot by me. But I did. Because I was becoming a monster and I couldn't realize it. It didn't start out that way. In the first few hours I was like, poor sod. I won't execute you. I only shot you for self defense but now that you're incapcitated, I don't have a problem with you. My beef is with Konrad, not you.
Then the infamous. And you get to the area where civvies were holed up, and thatWhite Phosphorous scene happens. Shit is nightmare fuel. It kept haunting me throughout the weekendhalf burned woman with her kidI know it wasn't real, but what the fuck, how can my mind not reconcile that everything was just pixels and fake ass crap. It's worse at night when you're trying to sleep and that image keeps popping up in your head. Didn't necessarily feel "miserable", but it really drove home the point of actions having consequences, especially when you don't see the full picture.
I did NOT think there were civvies in the area, I did not even consider it. But Walker and Adams bitched out Lugo, only guy who was talking sense at the moment. And I was siding with them, not Lugo. I didn't feel the need to do it, but I wanted it to be done. Feels bad. The journey of Spec Ops: The Line was so powerful that when I got to the final revelation part, I felt ill... Nothing more, nothing less.I was nothing but Don Quixote. Fuckity fuck. Only part where I had a strong disconnect with Walker's actions was the water tanker part. I wasn't sure that taking those out will help solve anyone's problems. I don't know what Yager had in mind and if I should be mad at them for forcing me to go through the game's choices and making me feel like shit or congratulate them for making a game that affects your shit.All the massacres and decisions just for my quixotic adventuresLugo getting violenty lynched because of your stupid actions, and Adams going out in a hail of bullet glory to save your dumb ass also made me feel like shit. They were my buddies and I made them do crazy shit and get them killed because I wanted more.
I don't want to play games for a while even though I had Bioshock infy on preorder. Haven't claimed it yet because I need a few more days to clear my mind off that crazy shit from Spec Ops.
Yup, this game has been stuck in my head since last year. Can't play shooters without this game reminding how much better it contextualized of what you're doing in those types of games. Huge impact on me personally, and I guess it can have an effect on soldiers who play it too (antitrop was in the military) because one of the themes is PTSD.
If your game is trying character development (Tomb Raider) but is not showing it in-game so there is a disconnect, learn from the adaptive dialogue and animations of The Line.
RustyNails
Member
You got it. The devs really cracked open the dark side of military shooter genre and I hope they get to revisit it again.
Game was good but I'm glad I waited until it was $10. The decisions didn't impact me as much as I thought they would and the actual gameplay was simply good and not outstanding or extraordinary. I would personally give the game an 7.8 score. Good for a play through but certainly not a $60 title in my opinion.
Jigolo
Member
The games story I fucking loved. So intense. Gameplay and graphics not so much. Gameplay was clunky and getting behind stuff was a drag sometimes. Hit or miss. Graphics, jaggies, jaggies everywhere (PS3).
Actual campaign though 10/10. It was incredible. If only the other 2 aspects of the game were better this would be one of the best games this gen.
Actual campaign though 10/10. It was incredible. If only the other 2 aspects of the game were better this would be one of the best games this gen.
Booker Dewitt
Member
Can't say the story or its themes worked well for me, but I do give the developers credit for at least trying to deliver a message. Even if its just a large dose of cynicism about a genre of games that I don't think people take that seriously to begin with, despite what developers say in interviews.
I never bought the reasoning behind the gameplay being mediocre as intentional though, that just seems like an attempt to excuse faults.
I never bought the reasoning behind the gameplay being mediocre as intentional though, that just seems like an attempt to excuse faults.
edgefusion
Member
Yeah, it's almost like killing tons of people isn't supposed to be fun or something, I dunno.
toastyToast
Member
The gameplay was pretty enjoyable with KB+M. I tried fiddling for at least 20 minutes to get a good stick sensitivity but it never stopped feeling like shit. The encounter design was solid and there were a few interesting scenarios thrown in.
Game gets a bad rap. I did not think in anyway that it was a shit game to play.
To address the OP, the game didn't have a profound affect on me or anything. I pondered about it fir a couple days, posted in that huge LTTP thread and went about my business. It hasn't changed my view on the macho shooter genre. I never cared for it that much anyway
Game gets a bad rap. I did not think in anyway that it was a shit game to play.
To address the OP, the game didn't have a profound affect on me or anything. I pondered about it fir a couple days, posted in that huge LTTP thread and went about my business. It hasn't changed my view on the macho shooter genre. I never cared for it that much anyway
not_so_special
Banned
its a good game,but just that
if you wanna get moved go and read some things that happened and still are happening on the real world
afganistan,congo,school of the americas,el salvador,nicaragua,ruanda,etc
if you wanna get moved go and read some things that happened and still are happening on the real world
afganistan,congo,school of the americas,el salvador,nicaragua,ruanda,etc
Which is altogether a shame, because the art style makes it one of the better entries in the Unreal Engine 3 lineup. It doesn't hold a candle to Bioshock Infinite, but nothing does.
Spec Ops on PC is a gorgeous, vibrant, hauntingly beautiful game.
To be honest, I'm trying to post about Spec Ops less (I might have gone overboard with it in one of the recent BioShock Infinite threads). This thread is going to drag me back in, though
The thing that stuck with me the most about the narrative in this game was the way in which game mechanics were actually integral to the storytelling. In most games, there are notably distinct components of "gameplay" and "plot," with the plot usually looking like it was stapled onto the gameplay as thin justification for what you're doing. In Spec Ops, what you are doing is critical to the emotional responses that the game wants to get out of you. I'll use spoiler tags for a handful of examples below:
The turret sequence.
A direct criticism of similar sequences in other games, Spec Ops uses what's normally a fist-pumping power fantasy setpiece to show just how deranged Walker has become. Tearing apart the radio tower and killing everyone inside of it just for revenge, against the protestations of Walker's squad, made me feel worse than the phosphorous scene did.
The evolution of execution commands and in-combat dialogue.
As the game proceeds, the core gameplay loop of shooting people is relatively constant, but gradual changes in how it plays out gives fighting a significantly different feel towards the end. When you have Walker issue squad commands in an increasingly bloodthristy manner, or have him pull off increasingly unnecessary executions on his enemies, you realize how farcical it is to call people that are doing this kind of stuff en masse the "good guys."
PTSD
The sequences with the flashing lights and the mannequins attacking Walker are designed to throw the player off balance and make them shoot erratically at a target that doesn't make much sense. As it becomes harder to differentiate the "real" targets from Walker's hallucinations, it further drives home how damaged Walker has become and how pointless his mission has become.
As an aside, it's disheartening to hear that someone earlier in this thread dismissed the idea of a book being written about a game as being inherently pretentious. Quality of that specific book aside, the fact that people are becoming more interested in long form criticism and analysis of games is very welcome to me. There is a lot more that can be written about games beyond the rote "should I buy this or not?" purchasing guide angle that reviews take. If anything, this practice would be more common if there were more high budget games that had something resembling a message or a theme (beyond "chosen one, ancient alien technology, save universe").
There is a lot more to this game beyond "plot twists" and "violence is bad."
There's no denying the value of actually being aware of real world events. At the same time, fiction has often been an effective way to start conversations and potentially change the way that people feel about things. There are obvious examples of this that had political and social ramifications (like Uncle Tom's Cabin), and there are examples of this that Spec Ops drew some inspiration from (Apocalypse Now, Heart of Darkness).
NinjaCatfish
Member
The game alone was pretty great, but I didn't quite 'get it' until I read through Killing is Harmless, and listened to that GameSpot podcast where they interviewed one of the writers.
It played a part in how I found Uncharted 3 disappointing I'm sure. Was so difficult to play and not be completely conscious of the fact that I was playing an everyman who is a mass murderer. In previous Uncharted games it just didn't affect my enjoyment so much, I didn't even think about it beyond the 'lol he killed everyone' joke afterwards, but after The Line, the firefights in U3 just felt a little off.
It played a part in how I found Uncharted 3 disappointing I'm sure. Was so difficult to play and not be completely conscious of the fact that I was playing an everyman who is a mass murderer. In previous Uncharted games it just didn't affect my enjoyment so much, I didn't even think about it beyond the 'lol he killed everyone' joke afterwards, but after The Line, the firefights in U3 just felt a little off.
Dance Inferno
Unconfirmed Member
Just because you didn't appreciate what it was doing doesn't mean we're pretending to like this game, or that we're pretending that the game affected us on an emotional level. This game didn't do anything for you, fine, that's the way you experienced it. A lot of us were profoundly (there's that word you hate) affected by the game's narrative.
Takamura-San
Member
revolverjgw
Member
I appreciated what they did with the story but it had absolutely no effect on my outlook on anything going forward. I'll remember it as a solid, unremarkable shooter with an above-average story and a cool setting.
You are not playing as an Everyman in Uncharted, not by a longshot
well this seems like a spoiler thread. So Hell no. Many shot in the air to get the civs to scatter. I just shot at the ground close to their feet because the way my mindset was going 'my Walker' was just tired and wanted it all to stop.
I find the story more impactful overall if you slaughter all of them.
I think it extends the "sane to crazy" arc of Walker. Does it not?
Takamura-San
Member
Interesting....
It felt odd shooting them, for some reason I didn't see any other alternative.
