Ding ding. Plus those "you should feel bad" moments were ham-fisted and stupid.
I didn't feel any different for going through the game. I just felt indifferent to the whole thing. The gameplay didn't help when Suicide Mission and FUBAR kill you in two seconds for popping out of cover to try to even aim at a person before firing.
Exactly the same here. I really didn't want to do it but I couldn't compute any other way, maybe it's from playing the role of Walker a little too well.
Which is altogether a shame, because the art style makes it one of the better entries in the Unreal Engine 3 lineup. It doesn't hold a candle to Bioshock Infinite, but nothing does.
Spec Ops on PC is a gorgeous, vibrant, hauntingly beautiful game.
I think the fact that the licensed soundtrack is one of the best of the generation goes unnoticed by a lot of people.
They went for a completely different feel than Call of Duty and Battlefield and it was flawless.
No other war game uses fucking Jimi Hendrix on the main menu. That's something.
but the death of Lugo is a big enough deal that it could cause a shift in Walker's mindset.
As a player playing that sequence just made me feel incredibly sad rather than angry and I acted accordingly. I think the game gives the player enough agency to decide, not if Walker is going crazy or not that's going to happen anway, but at least what kind of madness Walker is descending into.
My Walker either shot himself or dropped his gun at the end sequence as well. I didn't bother to go for the full "Welcome to Dubai" ending.
To be honest, I'm trying to post about Spec Ops less (I might have gone overboard with it in one of the recent BioShock Infinite threads). This thread is going to drag me back in, though
The thing that stuck with me the most about the narrative in this game was the way in which game mechanics were actually integral to the storytelling. In most games, there are notably distinct components of "gameplay" and "plot," with the plot usually looking like it was stapled onto the gameplay as thin justification for what you're doing. In Spec Ops, what you are doing is critical to the emotional responses that the game wants to get out of you. I'll use spoiler tags for a handful of examples below:
The turret sequence.
A direct criticism of similar sequences in other games, Spec Ops uses what's normally a fist-pumping power fantasy setpiece to show just how deranged Walker has become. Tearing apart the radio tower and killing everyone inside of it just for revenge, against the protestations of Walker's squad, made me feel worse than the phosphorous scene did.
The evolution of execution commands and in-combat dialogue.
As the game proceeds, the core gameplay loop of shooting people is relatively constant, but gradual changes in how it plays out gives fighting a significantly different feel towards the end. When you have Walker issue squad commands in an increasingly bloodthristy manner, or have him pull off increasingly unnecessary executions on his enemies, you realize how farcical it is to call people that are doing this kind of stuff en masse the "good guys."
PTSD
The sequences with the flashing lights and the mannequins attacking Walker are designed to throw the player off balance and make them shoot erratically at a target that doesn't make much sense. As it becomes harder to differentiate the "real" targets from Walker's hallucinations, it further drives home how damaged Walker has become and how pointless his mission has become.
As an aside, it's disheartening to hear that someone earlier in this thread dismissed the idea of a book being written about a game as being inherently pretentious. Quality of that specific book aside, the fact that people are becoming more interested in long form criticism and analysis of games is very welcome to me. There is a lot more that can be written about games beyond the rote "should I buy this or not?" purchasing guide angle that reviews take. If anything, this practice would be more common if there were more high budget games that had something resembling a message or a theme (beyond "chosen one, ancient alien technology, save universe").
There is a lot more to this game beyond "plot twists" and "violence is bad."
There's no denying the value of actually being aware of real world events. At the same time, fiction has often been an effective way to start conversations and potentially change the way that people feel about things. There are obvious examples of this that had political and social ramifications (like Uncle Tom's Cabin), and there are examples of this that Spec Ops drew some inspiration from (Apocalypse Now, Heart of Darkness).
This is an excellent post and extrapolates on some of the points I briefly mentioned. Completely agree on the reviewing aspect of this game and "shyamalantwist.jpg"
if Konrad shoots you at the end of the game, a few frames will show that you actually shoot yourself
EDIT: fixed
oh and another one:
in chapter 1 Konrad's face is on a billboard and in chapter 5 Konrad's face appears on a billboard after you pass a corner
and how could I forget:
fades to white show Walker hallucinating - and the only somewhat good ending is full of white transitions - which means even if you consider Walker to be alive, he is just hallucinating going home
and
your name will be shown in credits under "special guest star"
I didn't feel any different for going through the game. I just felt indifferent to the whole thing. The gameplay didn't help when Suicide Mission and FUBAR kill you in two seconds for popping out of cover to try to even aim at a person before firing.
My primary reaction to Spec Ops was confusion. I'm not really clear what it was trying to say or how it was trying to say it. It's a really dull and preposterous third person shooter, but is that on purpose? Is the gameplay satirical? Is it an anti-war statement, or is it completely a statement on videogames? If I'm supposed to feel bad about having fun shooting people, I guess I get out of that one because the game is not really any fun.
I appreciated the effort but I couldn't really figure out what it was saying.
My primary reaction to Spec Ops was confusion. I'm not really clear what it was trying to say or how it was trying to say it. It's a really dull and preposterous third person shooter, but is that on purpose? Is the gameplay satirical? Is it an anti-war statement, or is it completely a statement on videogames? If I'm supposed to feel bad about having fun shooting people, I guess I get out of that one because the game is not really any fun.
I appreciated the effort but I couldn't really figure out what it was saying.
The gameplay was enjoyable if not generic, but it didn't overstay its welcome. My only complaints there were the red jelly blood splatter effect and the co-op mode which just kinda sucked. It looked beautiful at times which I wasn't really expecting going into it, but I think the setting and the direction the story takes allowed them some artistic freedom there.
The best thing about the game are all the little details phosphor112 mentioned, not all of which I noticed, coupled with the adaptive dialogue. They did a spectacular job at characterizing Walker as actually being traumatized/transformed by his actions. Similar to
Hotline Miami
(Indie PC game released last year), it questions the player's motivation for enjoying something so heinously violent. It's not necessarily an incredibly profound message or something that you couldn't have felt already, and I don't think every violent game needs to have a message like this -- but I hope that some COD fans picked up the game because of its genre and had some thoughts to mull over by the end of it. I don't mean to insult anyone who enjoys COD, I just don't know how else to phrase it. I mean the people who typically only buy the big AAA games for more of the same gameplay/multiplayer that they love, because those games don't usually touch on such themes. I've never cared one iota about the storyline of any COD game I've played. It's certainly not the focus of those games. So it's nice to see a military shooter try to have a different focus.
Okay, maybe everyman wasn't the best word to use. I guess it's just that the character is developed in such a way as to be relatable. You laugh along with him and share his highs and lows.
This was harder to do once it had been pointed out what I was doing through him as a character. I think that the amount of killing/shooting in games has just become a thing that is done because that's just 'how games are' and they've always been that way. The Line just put a focus on this specific element of gameplay and tried to make players think about what they are and have been doing in games, through their characters, and about how much they've been enjoying it when it's incentivised by points/achievements/whatever.
My primary reaction to Spec Ops was confusion. I'm not really clear what it was trying to say or how it was trying to say it. It's a really dull and preposterous third person shooter, but is that on purpose? Is the gameplay satirical? Is it an anti-war statement, or is it completely a statement on videogames? If I'm supposed to feel bad about having fun shooting people, I guess I get out of that one because the game is not really any fun.
I appreciated the effort but I couldn't really figure out what it was saying.
I would highly recommend giving this interview with the game's lead writer a listen if you have the time and are still seeking clarity.
My own takeaway from the game (beyond its central accomplishment of leveraging what you're actually doing for storytelling purposes) isn't that everybody who enjoys shooters is a bad person. Instead, it's questioning the general glorification of violence and the notion that people who do things like Walker are frequently held up as unquestionably good (see: any military shooter where it's implied that you're always the good guy because the people you are shooting aren't from your country).
The game makes this point rather overtly in some instances
"Do you feel like a hero yet?"
. In others, it is more subtle.
A central thrust of Walker's mental degradation involves the stories that he's telling himself to justify what he's done. In order to hold onto any remaining shreds of pride and dignity, Walker has to cast himself as the hero by portraying all of his acts of violence as having been necessary. The impact of the "Konrad was dead before you arrived" twist goes beyond simply being a twist; it shows you the lengths to which Walker is going to compartmentalize and justify the atrocities he has committed.
Yeah the story in this game was probably the most disturbing but amazing stories I've ever played in a videogame and it actually made me feel ill at a few points. The actual gameplay isn't that great and it's a slog to get through, but it's worth it for the story.
I was actually tempted to go back and try for one of the alternate endings, but, yeah, I don't think I want to go back for at least like a year.
No, because while it was a very good game, a lot of fun to play, and mentally dragged you in some strange places - ultimately it was just a fun experience to have and was worth playing. It wasn't that big of a deal to me and didn't affect me much.
Not sure if I'd call it fun but yes, it was an interesting experience, though not really crafted to have "fun" with it.
It's a really dull and preposterous third person shooter, but is that on purpose? Is the gameplay satirical? Is it an anti-war statement, or is it completely a statement on videogames?
I would highly recommend giving this interview with the game's lead writer a listen if you have the time and are still seeking clarity.
My own takeaway from the game (beyond its central accomplishment of leveraging what you're actually doing for storytelling purposes) isn't that everybody who enjoys shooters is a bad person. Instead, it's questioning the general glorification of violence and the notion that people who do things like Walker are frequently held up as unquestionably good (see: any military shooter where it's implied that you're always the good guy because the people you are shooting aren't from your country).
The game makes this point rather overtly in some instances
"Do you feel like a hero yet?"
. In others, it is more subtle.
A central thrust of Walker's mental degradation involves the stories that he's telling himself to justify what he's done. In order to hold onto any remaining shreds of pride and dignity, Walker has to cast himself as the hero by portraying all of his acts of violence as having been necessary. The impact of the "Konrad was dead before you arrived" twist goes beyond simply being a twist; it shows you the lengths to which Walker is going to compartmentalize and justify the atrocities he has committed.
Do you think that fiction can ever have a valuable message?
Enjoyed it a lot more than I expected and I felt like a monster by the end . Some absolutely wonderful set pieces and visually striking scenes. Didnt know about all the little details in that spoiler post; only read about half so now I wanna go back and check it out again.
Gunplay is generally better than most TPS games too as the AI will move up and try to overtake you often. Definitely got more out of it than I expected.
I tore through the game in two days. The game is very engrossing and pretty much on the opposite side of the spectrum of all the other military shooters out there. On a certain spot where I kept dying, the loading screens kept mocking me.
Game itself is weighed down by clunky mechanics and being too similar on the surface to all the other shooters out there. Glad PS+ exposed me to the game.
It was pretty messed up, but didn't really change my views on war or shooters in general - I already knew (not firsthand) how screwed up it is. I'm fully aware real life is not like Call of Duty, and killing people just sucks no matter which side you're on.
It's nice to see this side of the coin represented in games, if nothing else, and I'd heartily reccomend it as worth playing once. All the little details and tricks they used are very clever, although also very easy to miss unless you know what to look for.
Enjoyed it a lot, but thanks to watching reviews prior to going in I'd already had the most impactful moment in the game ruined for me. There was absolutely no surprise from the
white phosphorous scene
which really lessened its effect. Up to that point in the game I knew what was coming so I just waited for it.
The organic nature of choice in this game is also really unique. Rarely do games present options to you that its so easy to not even recognize.
I managed to get through Lugo's hanging without shooting the civilians, but I can see how easy it would've been to miss that. I didn't really expect it to work when I did it.
There's a lot of small details that make this game's presentation so fantastic, and while some are plain as day, like the change in Walker's appearance and the change in the tone of the banter, some are very subtle. One that I see talked about here in just about every thread though is the brutality of the executions. I have to question whether or not this actually changes throughout the game. I may be mistaken but the executions in the game are at no point 'humane.' I think the animations are shared throughout the game, though. Certainly Walker gets more vocally aggressive, but the very first time I executed anyone, (It was the moment in the first level that teaches you to execute downed enemies) I did it by slamming my fist into his throat until he stopped breathing. I believe I've also seen the kneecap animation early in the game. I uninstalled the game a while back so I can't confirm any of this, but that's the impression I got from the game after having read lots of threads like this one about it on gaf.
Regardless, it was an
brutal
experience, so thanks gaf and thanks antitrop for convincing me to give it a shot.
I just beat this game last month, it had an awesome story, great voice acting marred by janky controls at times. I would definitely recommend this game for the story alone.
You don't watch many dramatic historical films do you?
If Spec Ops is enough to disturb you, then stuff like Saving Private Ryan, Schindler's List, The Pianist, Hotel Rwanda, Grave of the Fireflies and Barefoot Gen will fuck you up.
I've been hearing too much positive words on GAF about this, I've been meaning to pick it up for awhile now but I can't hold back any further, will get it this week sometime.
I've been hearing too much positive words on GAF about this, I've been meaning to pick it up for awhile now but I can't hold back any further, will get it this week sometime.
Spec Ops: The Line is probably the most uncomfortable shooter I've ever played in regards to how the game handles violence. Really good game though, enjoyed the experience.
You don't watch many dramatic historical films do you?
If Spec Ops is enough to disturb you, then stuff like Saving Private Ryan, Schindler's List, The Pianist, Hotel Rwanda, Grave of the Fireflies and Barefoot Gen will fuck you up.
Not to disparage the (great) movies that you listed in any way, but it's a different experience when you are actually controlling what's happening. You're not just watching Walker do these things; you are doing these things. Being in control made things like
Not to disparage the (great) movies that you listed in any way, but it's a different experience when you are actually controlling what's happening. You're not just watching Walker do these things; you are doing these things. Being in control made things like
Yup, those films are not interactive so they don't disturb me as much since I can distance myself. The only time a movie has had a similar impact was Waltz with Bashir's ending, but that's because it totally shifts formats.
While being a pretty generic-feeling cover-based shooter, the story and ideas behind it were fantastic. There were points where I felt sick because of my actions and the actions of my team. I think it did a great job in showing off the atrocities of war.
Did it stick with me to the point that it kept me from playing other games? Not really. I understand the message it tells, but I can still separate fiction from reality.
I didn't want to use the mortar, the game gave me no other options.
I saw the civilians and thought, "ok, can I get off the mortar now?", the game doesn't allow me to exit (I literally sat there for 3 minutes waiting.)
I wanted to just charge through the mob surrounding me, nope.
The game just didn't work for me because I never resonated with Walker or any of his choices.
I'm not sure what that says about me as a person *sigh*.
The story wasn't good enough to make up for it's subpar gameplay.
I did watch all the remaining cutscenes (including the alternate endings) on youtube to see if there was anything more after
killing the civilians
.
Spec Ops story is better than most FPS games and third person shooters, but it isn't anything close to groundbreaking or revolutionary.
You don't even need to read much to get better stuff. There are hundreds of movies with better stories. I'm sorry but I just can't agree with your statement that movies like Apocalypse Now are less impacting.
I didn't feel different at all after I was "finished" with the game.
The story wasn't good enough to make up for it's subpar gameplay.
I did watch all the remaining cutscenes (including the alternate endings) on youtube to see if there was anything more after
killing the civilians
.
Spec Ops story is better than most FPS games and third person shooters, but it isn't anything close to groundbreaking or revolutionary.
You don't even need to read much to get better stuff. There are hundreds of movies with better stories. I'm sorry but I just can't agree with your statement that movies like Apocalypse Now are less impacting.
I didn't feel different at all after I was "finished" with the game.
The story wasn't good enough to make up for it's subpar gameplay.
I did watch all the remaining cutscenes (including the alternate endings) on youtube to see if there was anything more after
killing the civilians
.
Spec Ops story is better than most FPS games and third person shooters, but it isn't anything close to groundbreaking or revolutionary.
You don't even need to read much to get better stuff. There are hundreds of movies with better stories. I'm sorry but I just can't agree with your statement that movies like Apocalypse Now are less impacting.
I didn't feel different at all after I was "finished" with the game.
