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[KillLaCam]

Sometimes I wonder what kind of sports games you guys are playing and also if yall are aware of the amount of work put into the yearly iterations of stuffs like Fifa, Madden or PES...

e: and the comparison with Capcom is so funny when you realize there are less than 110 people working at GFreak.
and the comparison to a company like Blizzard with more than 4000 employees...

Whoops I meant they change less than sports games. Not do less work. I'm pretty sure they're actually putting in work.

I remember a few years ago one of the director at gamefreak compared their games to sports games and how the core gameplay and everything doesn't really change. So it's partially on purpose.


I'd never compare them to something like Capcom or Especially blizzard. Idk why ppl are doing that one

 

[vareon]

The perceived competency isn't relevant to what they have been successful in doing. Like, it doesn't matter if Pokemon doesn't have bleeding edge 60FPS battles if kids are still going crazy over their shiny Rattata. So they never pushed that way.

Can that be called incompetency? I don't know, hard to call it that if they didn't even try pushing. I'll say they just have a different focus.

 

[Renegade Frost]

Honestly if GameFreak put ROCKSTAR level efforts into the next fully realized 3D pokemon games, I could see the games hitting that fabled 30 million + mark

Because people care about switch more than they cared about 3ds back when b2w2 was anounced.

Nah the salt was pretty similar lmao

 

[Dryk]

I hesitate to call them incompetent, but their thought processes are just completely alien to me. They don't develop their good features, they create way more limited edition content than I'm comfortable, and they wholehearted embrace the mess they've created when it comes to trash 'mons, power creep, and competitive balance.

Like they revoke widespread access to splashable, powerful moves every few years so they can sell them back to people again. It's insane.

 

[Renegade Frost]

I hesitate to call them incompetent, but their thought processes are just completely alien to me. They don't develop their good features, they create way more limited edition content than I'm comfortable, and they wholehearted embrace the mess they've created when it comes to trash 'mons, power creep, and competitive balance.

Like they revoke widespread access to splashable, powerful moves every few years so they can sell them back to people again. It's insane.

ehh they put themselves in a whole in gen 3 that they had to dig themselves out of so thats not a big deal.

The only limited edition content they have is really just things related to the UI/System features implementation cause they're trying to take advantage of the hardware the games ar eon.

 

[Jacobson]

These knee-jerk reaction threads are the worst. Mods, please.

 

[KZXcellent]

These knee-jerk reaction threads are the worst. Mods, please.

What do mods need to do? This is a well written thread about some of the issues OP has with Game Freak. Did you just read the title and have a knee-jerk reaction?

 

[Jacobson]

What do mods need to do? This is a well written thread about some of the issues OP has with Game Freak. Did you just read the title and have a knee-jerk reaction?

Lol, what? except for the first point re: the technical side, everything else was his opinion.

 

[Suplexer]

You lost this bet

Figured out what I was missing from this argument hahahaha!

I know nothing about Pokemon because I don't really care for it. Just looked it up and HOLY SHIT @ 14 million units being sold for the last game. I thought we were talking 2-3 million units sold in the first 6 months or so.

I guess keep doing what you're doing Gamefreak, as much as I would like to try a more modern Pokemon on Switch that seems years away....

 

[KZXcellent]

Lol, what? except for the first point re: the technical side, everything else was his opinion.

So we can't make threads based on opinions?

 

[Jacobson]

So we can't make threads based on opinions?

Not if we're stating them as facts.

 

[Tookay]

Not if we're stating them as facts.

You're on a forum. People stating opinions as facts is part of the premise.

 

[PeterGAF]

They make incredibly well received games that sell like crazy. Just because they decided to release a game on the 3DS instead of the Switch doesn't make them incompetent. Grow up you child.

I know GAF is infamous for overreactions and taking shit waaaaay too seriously but this is just insane. The most incompetent developer for Nintendo? Really? Incompetent is the last word you should use to describe a company that prints money like no one else. This is like when people throw out the phrase "lazy devs."

 

[GiantBreadbug]

Incompetent: No, and the reaction to the Ultra games situation is just fucking embarrassing.

Stubbornly conservative to the point that it's going to have to change for the good of the series: Yes, absolutely.

This has nothing to do with the Ultra games. Next to the fact that we know nothing about them, I'm pretty hopeful they'll be meaningful expansions a la BW2. People are pissing themselves over it not being on Switch (even though it probably will be in the form of Eclipse), but that's really not even remotely close to a problem.

The problem is that they refuse to put the resources behind this series that it deserves. These games should be getting MUCH more content and features than they are, and that means Pokémon, areas, side modes, story (main and postgame and side quests), in-depth pokedex entries (more than one or two sentences), and other things.

They're comfortable spending the same small budget because it's returned to them in excess, but if they want the series to really flourish, and if they want Pokémon to remain as much of a cultural presence as it is, they're going to need to spend a bit of money. I'm frankly really baffled as to why Nintendo hasn't ponied up a wad of cash to fund a truly expansive Pokémon game yet, because such a thing could expand the audience way more than their current strategy.

Not to mention, it would just be nice to do for fans of the series who are tired of less than 25 hour Pokémon campaigns with a largely empty word to hang around in afterward (me). I just want a Pokémon game that's fun to play offline after I've beaten the main story. I'm hoping they've future proofed the models so that they can spend more time actually developing the rest of the game adequately in Gen VIII on Switch.

 

[tiebreaker]

Why would they improve? People keep buying their games.

 

[Chaos2Frozen]

Isn't it more likely that Gamefreak just don't have the know-how to create those big detailed open world Pokemon games that people envision?

 

[Hydrus]

These knee-jerk reaction threads are the worst. Mods, please.

LOL Seriously? OP makes good points. This is why developers like Gamefreak don't give a shit: The hardcore fan base is way too loyal to the brand and will buy anything they put out.

 

[PreyingShark]

Can you name another 3ds game (1st or 3rd party) that doesn't feature the 3D visuals, a key feature of the system?

Joker 3 Professional
Appmon
Buddyfight
Puyo Puyo Chronicles

All from like December of last year or later and that's just what I've actually played. That said, most of those actually run well. Aside from Appmon but in battles that game still runs pretty well and actually looks kinda nice, compared to the overworld where it both looks and runs like complete dog poo.

 

[SpiceMelange]

They are the most competent at their job, which is to make money.

 

[Condom]

Just things you have to deal with with certain money printing Japanese games from my experience.
There are exceptions to the rule of course but as a Monster Hunter fan I learned to expect nothing more than the core formula. They're either late with release or limit their graphics or have other big flaws that are overlooked because of the amazing core gameplay. Sometimes I just want them to go all out but then again I don't have to pay their bills if it doesn't work out.

 

[Hydrus]

You know the one thing that always makes me wonder? Game Freak seems to always announce their games 5-6 months in advance and give the exact date they release ( like today for example). Usually companies say spring of 20xx or something like that and like 2 months before they give the release date or announce a delay. The Pokemon series never gets a delay. Always arrives on the date they announced 4-6 months prior. Makes me wonder how much they cut corners and rush thru development just to meet those dates.

 

[Red Devil]

You know the one thing that always makes me wonder? Game Freak seems to always announce their games 5-6 months in advance and give the exact date they release ( like today for example). Usually companies say spring of 20xx or something like that and like 2 months before they give the release date or announce a delay. The Pokemon series never gets a delay. Always arrives on the date they announced 4-6 months prior. Makes me wonder how much they cut corners and rush thru development just to meet those dates.

The first Gen games and GS had some delays.

 

[Vital Tundra]

Really don't see what would make them incompetent. Their games are incredibly polished.

 

[lupinko]

They make them a shitload of money:

Like, shitloads.

This, that's all that matters at the end of the day.

 

[Hydrus]

The first Gen games and GS had some delays.

Those don't count anymore. That was over 20 years ago. They had 6 years to make gen 1 and 2- 3 for GS. Ultra Sun and moon are releasing almost exactly 1 year after SM. To me thats rushing.

 

[GuitarGuruu]

Those don't count anymore. They had 6 years to make gen 1 and 2- 3 for GS. Ultra Sun and moon are releasing almost exactly 1 year after SM. To me thats rushing.

To be fair the games are in development for long periods of time. If I recall I remember them working on ORAS for 3 years.

 

[ryechu]

The one thing I hate most about Pokemon is what a time slog it is. Everything takes too long: menus, battle startups and animations, dialogue boxes. Just everything moves at a snails pace.

A game like Persona 5 really makes you appreciate how fast and snappy RPGs can be. Turn based RPGs dont need to be slow and cumbersome but it seems Gamefreak didnt get the memo.

Gamefreak still doesn't know what to do with leftovers recovery and stat boost animations.

 

[Boss Doggie]

see I said I don't like to post in this thread anymore but then you see stupid shit like this and you want to rectify it

You know the one thing that always makes me wonder? Game Freak seems to always announce their games 5-6 months in advance and give the exact date they release ( like today for example). Usually companies say spring of 20xx or something like that and like 2 months before they give the release date or announce a delay. The Pokemon series never gets a delay. Always arrives on the date they announced 4-6 months prior. Makes me wonder how much they cut corners and rush thru development just to meet those dates.

I mean for fucks sake, you'd think the virtue of being able to deliver on time is seen as something positive but now people can spin it as rushing... and forgetting that the games have been already in development way before they are announced.

And I'm not even gonna comment on the post about the OP having right points (but only a few) automatically making the claim "right" or totally not being a shallow reaction towards the recent news.

 

[Clefargle]

Joker 3 Professional
Appmon
Buddyfight
Puyo Puyo Chronicles

All from like December of last year or later and that's just what I've actually played. That said, most of those actually run well. Aside from Appmon but in battles that game still runs pretty well and actually looks kinda nice, compared to the overworld where it both looks and runs like complete dog poo.

Alright, I stand corrected. But those aren't as high profile as Pokémon so they aren't so egregious

 

[takriel]

Not incompetent. They know exactly what they're doing. Their games sell incredibly well. It's just frustrating for people like me and you who'd like to see their games on the newest hardware as fast as possible.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

fucking stop calling developers lazy.

 

[Clefargle]

fucking stop calling developers lazy.

All game Devs are hardworking now? None could do better?

????

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

All game Devs are hardworking now? None could do better?

????

The industry is literally renowned for working people to the ground through extensive crunch time.

Sure there'll be lazy people like everywhere bit to categorically call a studio lazy is by itself a critique lacking any nuance.

 

[Clefargle]

The industry is literally renowned for working people to the ground through extensive crunch time.

Sure there'll be lazy people like everywhere bit to categorically call a studio lazy is by itself a critique lacking any nuance.

I didn't simply call them lazy, I had plenty of nuance in my critique

 

[Costia]

All game Devs are hardworking now? None could do better?

????

Lazy devs are the ones that sell asset flips on steam.
GF and 99.9% of the devs called "lazy" by GAF aren't lazy.
It's just the standard "pulled out of my ass" type of critique.

 

[Forkball]

They make Nintendo more money than probably any other developer and they have made several of my personal favorite games of all time, so I would say they are quite competent.

Though it does seem like they sit around and play, "You know what would be funny?"

Developer A: You know what would be funny? What if we took out the awesome PSS in Sun and Moon?
Developer B: Haha. Let's make the replacement so bad that people think there must be more to it.
Developer A: Dude, let's make it single screen so people think there will be a Switch version!
Developer B: And then during a Pokémon Direct, we show a Switch, followed by an eight minute live-action Pokken trailer.
Developer A: And then we just flash UltraSun and UltraMoon on the screen outta nowhere! 3DS only! LMAO
Developer B: LMAO

 

[Chindogg]

If it's not broken, don't fix it.

Sun and Moon were great refreshes to the series and very enjoyable. I'm sure those who missed out will probably get Ultra Sun and Moon as well.

The game's pretty good and it makes a shitton of money. This "nuance" in the OP is more about bitching how Pokemon isn't run under a AAA methodology yet it sells like one.

You know what you're in for when you pick up a Pokemon game. None of this has changed in years and expecting more given the track record seems a bit ignorant to history. No one complains when Diseaga sticks mostly to the formula for their games. It's just that Pokemon is runaway popular.

Don't like what their doing? Find a new series. Calling Gamefreak incompetent or lazy because they only make one of the highest selling games every iteration is quite frankly dumb as hell which I'll chalk up to overinflated expectations based on completely unfounded rumors despite being from a credible source.

It sucks that Stars on Switch isn't real (yet) but to overreact like this is too much even for the usual GAF meltdown fare.

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

Arzest though

 

[Macka]

Considering how much money the games make - seriously Pokemon is one of the biggest franchises in gaming - I do think we should expect much more of them. Too many fans can't abide hearing any criticism of them.

The way the 3DS games run is a joke tbh. Not even offering 3D is the punchline.

The tiny incremental improvements are always let down by the removal of key features between games.

 

[FutureLarking]

You'd think with the amount of money they make they could afford to hire some really good engine programmers, but they seem to just be content with mediocrity.

Also, making higher polygon models than your system can handle is both the height of idiocy and bad planning. Hell, anyone can make a high poly model... Most sane developers do, for reference. They also then make another model with a trimmed down poly count they can actually freaking use.

Also holy shit that frame rate on those rubbish photo sections in sun & Moon.. GF found a way to out do themselves!


(Arzest / Artoon pretty shit tho)

 

[killatopak]

They make them a shitload of money:

Like, shitloads.

Give somebody else the pokemon license and they would make shitload of money as well.

 

[Dunkley]

They are conservative about their efforts - they don't really aim higher than they need to in order to make everyone (including my dumb ass) buy their latest games.

It's a low effort/high profit sorta deal, and Game Freak are the kings of that approach because Pokémon has a ridiculous brand strength fueled by passionate fans and nostalgia, which alone carries them through any shortcomings their games might show.

 

[MrCookiepants]

What? Gamefreak runs a tight ship. They put out games often and ALWAYS on time. Pokemon has been critically acclaimed and commercially successful for 20 straight years.

They've been tasked with handling one of the most important IPs in all of gaming and they've been doing a damn good job of it all things considered.

Pokemon Stars never made sense. Pokemon is not a first year title. It needs an established userbase to support the enormity of it. US/UM is not a new game and not worth making HD assets for. There was no reason to expect Pokemon on Switch this year aside from the Eurogamer rumor. Otherwise it goes against any rational expectation.

Bye.

 

[Clefargle]

What? Gamefreak runs a tight ship. They put out games often and ALWAYS on time. Pokemon has been critically acclaimed and commercially successful for 20 straight years.

They've been tasked with handling one of the most important IPs in all of gaming and they've been doing a damn good job of it all things considered.

Pokemon Stars never made sense. Pokemon is not a first year title. It needs an established userbase to support the enormity of it. US/UM is not a new game and not worth making HD assets for. There was no reason to expect Pokemon on Switch this year aside from the Eurogamer rumor. Otherwise it goes against any rational expectation.

Bye.

Has nothing to do with stars and everything to do with missing the basic standard of the current system (3ds) three times in multiple ways.

 

[Yukinari]

Arzest though

Yep its either Arzest or Nd Cube.

Nd Cube cant make a fucking mario party to save their life.

 

[FutureLarking]

Yep its either Arzest or Nd Cube.

Nd Cube cant make a fucking mario party to save their life.

They can't make anything to save their life period. You'd think given all they do is party games they'd at least be good at it, but AC:Amiibo Festival and Wii Party U were both pretty dire too D:

 

[coughlanio]

Idk about incompetent, but boy do they hate HD.

I can imagine it's quite expensive to generate assets and animations for 700+ 'mon at HD-level quality.

 

[Cpt Lmao]

No, that'd be 1UP and Nd Cube.

Who knows what they even do.

 

[kami_sama]

I can imagine it's quite expensive to generate assets and animations for 700+ 'mon at HD-level quality.

I don't blame them. HD is expensive. Look at all the developers that had trouble with the 360 and PS3.
It isn't as easy as flipping a switch. Still, the mon models in the 3ds games are better than can be seen in the console's screen.

 

[rochellepaws]

I would say they have their priorities exactly in order considering they've managed to keep their series at the very top for around 20 years.