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Is Microsoft creating even more internal studios? (Platform Next Studios & Leap)

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
Sure, we can only make guesses about general profitability within SCE WWS, although for the current situation it would be more useful to know what the ratio's been like in the last couple of years. Apart from them acquiring Media Molecule two years ago, I believe the most news in that period have been about studio closures, restructures and the loss of staff.

I guess it depends what you're paying attention to. In that period they also acquired Sucker Punch and expanded Naughty Dog to a two-team studio. Both SCEE and SCEA have also been hiring so I think job losses may well be more a case of rearranging resources vs large net losses to the headcount.

Anyway, back to the original point - we have zero visibility on individual studio profitability (asides from Media Molecule which was reportedly profitable last year revealed by an individual company filing they made in the UK). And I think it's tricky territory defending an assumption about them being 'mostly unprofitable' based on selective highlighting of stories. I would say the overall picture is one of continued strong commitment to first party development. Which isn't to say there aren't drawbacks - of course there are.
 
you can put leap down as another kinect studio
https://careers.microsoft.com/jobdetails.aspx?ss=&pg=0&so=&rw=1&jid=71393&jlang=EN

Bonus skills
- Experience with Kinect or other motion control technologies

I don't think that actually means anything, necessarily. I recall Remedy looking for people with Kinect expertise, but I have yet to see them integrate that technology into any of their games. They might. And this studio might. But I wouldn't say it's definite.
 

V_Arnold

Member
Sounds like they're gearing up for Xbox 3/Kinect 2 products.

People give Microsoft shit for ditching many of their first-party studios mid-way through the generation, but in my opinion it was a solid business tactic. Those studios are vital early on in a platform's life for differentiation, but they're crippled in terms of profitability since they're inherently one-platform studios. In this current climate, it doesn't make much sense to do what Sony's still doing, hanging on to a bunch of (mostly unprofitable) first-party studios.

Microsoft will probably stockpile a few studios to get them through the first couple years after launch, and then disband them when they're no longer needed.

The main problem happens when people twist what is happening into assuming that Microsoft would not even bother with the new console's launch to get exclusives ever again.

The same assumption happened last when some people assumed that just because a successor came 3 years after the launch of original Xbox, then 3 year is what 360 will inevitable have, nothing more. See how that turned out, lol.
 

SeanNoonan

Member
From what I've been told by co-workers who has had different relations to Ruffian, they are doing two new Kinect games and Crackdown is shelved for the time being. One of the Kinect games featured a bank robber escaping from a prison and having mini games around that concept.

(oh and apparently they also did the initial pitch on Rise, but Crytek said no thank you)
?

Anyway, I'd like to see more controller based games that have optional Kinect functionality. Kinect should be an addition to control, not a replacement.
 

Raonak

Banned
to add you more buttons :)

It would be interesting for kinect to have a move style navigation controller.
analog stick, D-pad, a L1 and L2(trigger) plus a couple of buttons.

The biggest problem with kinect games is the lack of easy "movement" options. Having a nav-con + using the kinect guesters would be a really good fix. analog to move. swing arms to slash, hold L2 while swinging to do a super slash or something. dpad switches weapons or something.

would allow for much deeper/complex motion games.
 

SeanNoonan

Member
Perfect timing. So are your guys using Kinect as an added control element?
Perfect avatar. I'm just saying for the games that I personally like to play, full Kinect control methods aren't overly suitable.

There are legitimate uses of Kinect and even uses where the controller isn't applicable i.e. Fruit Ninja.
 

enzo_gt

tagged by Blackace
Level Designer-IEB-Microsoft Studios-LEAP Now our incubation team is ready to change the world again, but we need your help! You will communicate and collaborate well with a highly creative development team. You are adaptive in your thinking and in your ability to pick up new tools and techniques.
So Forza 5?
 
?

Anyway, I'd like to see more controller based games that have optional Kinect functionality. Kinect should be an addition to control, not a replacement.

Just saying what a programmer on my team told me, when we discussed his past work, studio visits and trips to different development houses.
 
Seems like Bungie leaving left a real bitter taste in Microsoft's mouth, and instead of going acquisition happy, they are just building the studios themselves so that theres less chance of mass defection. They did buy Twisted Pixel, but that is the only notable studio acquisition I remember MS doing in years.
 

Shard

XBLAnnoyance
Seems like Bungie leaving left a real bitter taste in Microsoft's mouth, and instead of going acquisition happy, they are just building the studios themselves so that theres less chance of mass defection. They did buy Twisted Pixel, but that is the only notable studio acquisition I remember MS doing in years.

They also bought Bigpark a couple of years ago, the dev behind Joyride and Kinect Sports Vol. 2.
 

[Nintex]

Member
Seems like Bungie leaving left a real bitter taste in Microsoft's mouth, and instead of going acquisition happy, they are just building the studios themselves so that theres less chance of mass defection. They did buy Twisted Pixel, but that is the only notable studio acquisition I remember MS doing in years.

Maybe.. I think it had more to do with Rare, FASA, Sakaguchi and all the cash being absorbed into a giant black hole.
 

Jadedx

Banned
Ah, here's the Kinect defense force, lauding MS' business sense and applauding their "fuck hardcore gamers, long live children's games" attitude.

Another stupid post from a Kinect Hater.

Fuck the hardcore gamer attitude? What the fuck are you talking about? Has MS suddenly banned hardcore games from their console? Have they gimped them in some way? I bet you are one of those guys calls themselves a hardcore gamer but refuses to play games with color because, "they are too kiddy," and/or you are one of those guys who doesn't bother to look at xbla because, "It's nothing but sidescrollers and portzz!!"
 

nasos_333

Member
Another stupid post from a Kinect Hater.

Fuck the hardcore gamer attitude? What the fuck are you talking about? Has MS suddenly banned hardcore games from their console? Have they gimped them in some way? I bet you are one of those guys calls themselves a hardcore gamer but refuses to play games with color because, "they are too kiddy," and/or you are one of those guys who doesn't bother to look at xbla because, "It's nothing but sidescrollers and portzz!!"

The only question is if i can play many good core games on 360 in 2012

And i think i can

Witcher 2
Mass EFFECT 3
Skyrim expansions
Project Draco (panzer Dragoon developers)
Ryse (Crytek)
Halo 4
Kingdoms of Amalur
Dust Elysian Takle (one of the most beautifull game i have seen)
Class 3 MMO
Bloodforge (from Sudeki developers)
Alan Wake AN (from Remedy)
Fable Journey (Lionhead)
Battleblock Thater (Behemoth - Caste Crashers)

etc

I dont see even in the slightest a lack of core games for 360, in fact 2012 already has more games than i can play

And even though games like Haunt are a bit kiddy, i still loved this one, playing it now
 

Black-Box

Member
More Kinect studios? MS is going to be completely destroyed first party wise next gen.

and no one cares, first party games are like a thing of the past, no one cares if its first party or third party as long as it plays, and is good, no one wil care, nothing is destroyed but the narrow minds of people
 

Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
What I'd be more concerned about is how few of these new studios/acquisitions are actually aiming at putting out retail product.

I'm not saying that going XBLA only is neccessarily a lesser endeavour creatively, what I'm getting at is that in recent years MS has taken a very structured approach to releasing on their online platform, meaning that there are only a certain number of promoted "spots" per year, and if their self-published stuff starts taking the lion's share of those places, the amount of opportunities for new, third-party product to get its moment in the limelight is diminished.
 

AgentP

Thinks mods influence posters politics. Promoted to QAnon Editor.
Awesome. More Kinect development.

They might as well make a rainbow colored console with no controllers and have commercials by Elmo. Watch the WiiU be more hardcore than Xbox 3.


and no one cares, first party games are like a thing of the past, no one cares if its first party or third party as long as it plays, and is good, no one wil care, nothing is destroyed but the narrow minds of people

So take away all 1st party games and you are left with far less variety and cool technology. Most of my favorite games this gen are 1st party. Not all of us live on COD and Madden.
 

TheOddOne

Member
What I'd be more concerned about is how few of these new studios/acquisitions are actually aiming at putting out retail product.

I'm not saying that going XBLA only is neccessarily a lesser endeavour creatively, what I'm getting at is that in recent years MS has taken a very structured approach to releasing on their online platform, meaning that there are only a certain number of promoted "spots" per year, and if their self-published stuff starts taking the lion's share of those places, the amount of opportunities for new, third-party product to get its moment in the limelight is diminished.
Where are you getting this impression from? None of these studios have been focused on XBLA releases and no indication has been given that they will. All point out to retail releases.

MS has been actively publishing third party stuff for XBLA though.

So take away all 1st party games and you are left with far less variety and cool technology. Most of my favorite games this gen are 1st party. Not all of us live on COD and Madden.
I would advise you to read his post again, his point is fair. People buy good games, regardless if it's platform exlcusive.
 
What I'd be more concerned about is how few of these new studios/acquisitions are actually aiming at putting out retail product.

You know something we don't?

In any case, with the slow but inevitable shift of all gaming into the downloadable territory, I suppose we'll see a change in the way that content is administered and advertised. Five years from now I fully expect traditional multimillion dollar campaigns for AAA downloadable titles and the fight for virtual shelf space. I also expect more categories/services for different types of experiences - everything won't remain housed under the single XBLA banner forever.
 

Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
REMEMBER CITADEL said:
You know something we don't?

Based on studio size/headcount its pretty self-evident what type of product they are going to develop.

You want to make retail titles, you need a big studio, or multiple teams working in conjunction with one another. Much like the workload on Kinect Sports Season 2 was split between Big Park in Canada, and Rare in the UK.

Bottom line is this: If your products only distribution point is via a portal, you are extremely dependant upon the promotional mechanisms/schedules of that portal. You don't get featured on the app-store or get included in one of the XBLA seasonal promotions, you are facing an uphill struggle because you simply don't have the visibility to the casual buyer that a competitor does.
 

TheOddOne

Member
Based on studio size/headcount its pretty self-evident what type of product they are going to develop.

You want to make retail titles, you need a big studio, or multiple teams working in conjunction with one another. Much like the workload on Kinect Sports Season 2 was split between Big Park in Canada, and Rare in the UK.

Bottom line is this: If your products only distribution point is via a portal, you are extremely dependant upon the promotional mechanisms/schedules of that portal. You don't get featured on the app-store or get included in one of the XBLA seasonal promotions, you are facing an uphill struggle because you simply don't have the visibility to the casual buyer that a competitor does.
You know what a startup means, right? They are staffing up.

Headcount of a studio doesn't say much about what they are capible of, for example Media Molecule has 30+ staff.
 
You know what a startup means, right? They are staffing up.

Headcount of a studio doesn't say much about what they are capible of, for example Media Molecule has 30+ staff.

Just to build on that, Victoria is estimated to staff 60 people, while Vancouver is staffing more than that. Also, 343 Industries is confirmed to have over 200, and they have new job postings every week, literally. I expect 343 to go around 300, maybe.
 

Zen

Banned
Sony wouldn't be closing and reshuffling their studios if they were making them money. Keep pumping out a bunch of games with limited appeal and something's gotta give sooner or later.

There are a few studios that likely didn't make money off of recent projects, bigbig, and definitely evolution studios along with liverpool. But consider that over a year ago, the head of SCEWWS said that all of their internally developed projects, so far, had been profitable for the company. Cambridge hasn't released a game in some time, so it's obvious that they weren't generating income directly, hence the downsizing, but that's hardly 'the majority of their studios'. If the majority of their studios weren't generating income, then we'd be seeing many of their smaller, leaner, studios being cut, and instead Sony has continued to invest in them, while dramatically expanding Naughty Dog, Guerilla Games, and Santa Monica.

From a business standpoint there's no evidence that the majority of their internal studios are unprofitable, or anywhere close to half of them. Internal studios are only a drain on income if the platform in question is too limited in its potential audience and not appealing to said audience properly. Why would Microsoft invest in more internal studios now, after closing a lot of their old ones? What's so useful about opening new internal studios at the beginning of the generation for them when they already have a huge IP like Halo that will doubtlessly be there, and the best third party support in the industry (and will doubtlessly tie up some third party developers to exclusives just like they got Gears in this generation).

The answer is because in opening these new studios they can better align them to what they feel the demographic of the next Xbox will be than with the old studios that they felt were out of alignment, and oftentimes restricting or forcing a studio to become something else just wont work as well as opening a new studio from the ground up years later. The fact is that first party studios aren't anywhere near a money drain is handled properly and the studio isn't bloated. Sony knows this, and so does Microsoft.
 

Rat Salad

Banned
Whats funny as hell is these first parties will probably still sell more than most Sony 1st party games next gen.! Which is probably why most Gaffers take shots at Microsoft so much.
 

Rat Salad

Banned
Lets not go overboard :p

heh. Well they know how to execute with great marketing. That was my point really.
Not singling you out here,just need to rant abit....

I don't get this shit that some are saying about not having games for the gamer. Hell go to XBLA and you have great stuff thats made for that type of gamer. Because Nintendo and Sony focus more on 1st party makes Microsoft a chump? Hardly. In this day and age,unless you're Nintendo,1st party doesn't mean that much to the mainstream. It hasn't helped Sony's situation much. And not having an enormous in house next to the other guys hasn't hurt Microsoft one bit,so whats the problem? People act as if 3rd parties don't make games for the hardcore,there's plenty. Its the climate of this market now,you don't need 1st party to have huge success. Microsoft is just being business savy, going with the obvious sell. 3prt parties are pretty much the the yellow brick road to success. Think some are just bringing this up to dick wave their favorites. In the end size doesn't matter as much as some make it out to be....its how you perform baby!
 
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