Rimon-hanit
Member
I would stop calling it a profession because that's just odd, and capitalism is inherently evil, I don't think you can make many distinction within.
Honestly if people are paying for it, my personal opinion is "why not?".
i would like for you both to give your opinions on concert tickets. As previously mentioned by myself and others, there seems to be some way 3rd party sellers are able to buy up literally thousands of tickets before the general public can get them. And its complete bullshit in my opinion.
no, it doesnt mean venues would be empty. It has nothing to do with that.
Also you're example is piss poor. *a sizeable amount* companies won't do shit for employees or customers until forced to, why else are there so many lawsuits against companies and laws enacted? For instance the amount of companies in the US that offer paid maternity leave vs the amount of companies elsewhere in the world that do.
Picture yourself 10 years old.
The brand new Nintendo Switch you've been reading about online for months is about to hit the market. You've been eagerly expecting it for such a long time...
You're in luck, it comes out just a couple of weeks before your birthday.
So when your parents ask what kind of gift you want, you don't even hesitate for a split second: the Switch it is, of course!
Comes March 3. The timing feels so right! Your dad remembers when he got his own SNES back in the day.
$299+tax is a bit of a stretch financially speaking; your family is typical middle class, your parents aren't rich and have a few debts. Plus they have to get you Zelda along with the console.
But they know you've been making tremendous efforts at school in the past few months in order to get good grades; they promised you you'd have your Switch if you did, and you delivered. So now it's their turn, and they're happy to oblige.
They go to Walmart, their usual place to buy stuff. But no Switch. "When are you going to receive new stock?" they ask. The employee has no idea.
Your parents leave Walmart and go to a mom and pop store. "It's usually a bit more expensive", they say, "but at least he'll get his present". But alas, no luck there either.
"Let's check Amazon", your dad says. And Amazon he checks. Both your parents' faces blemish when they discover the only Switches available are marked up at least 100%.
They can't afford that.
They're left with no choice. Right after you finish your dessert that evening, they tell you : "I'm sorry dear, we can't find your game console anywhere." Your mom tears up a bit when you reply: "but you promised!"
"We know. We're sorry. We'll try to make it up to you."
Fast forward.
Christmas. The next year. You're finally there, with your Switch still wrapped in gifting paper.
In the meantime, one of your calssmates, the "rich" kid who always has everything before everybody else, managed to get one and invited you over a couple of times to try it. So when you open your package, it's a lot less magical, of course. You're still happy, sure. But rich kid has already spoiled Zelda and Mario for you.
Bah, you know you'll have fun anyways. You're 11 now. You've learnt to live with a bit of disappointment.
All of this because on launch day, some guy decided to snatch 6 Switches he wasn't even interested in instead of buying 0, just to "make a buck". Of course, he sold nothing with his 100% marked up price, and three weeks later, ended up craiglisting half of his stock for $340 - barely making any money off the units because of the taxes he had to pay on his initial purchase.
He calculated his net profit for the total operation. They barely amounted to $200, thanks to one man who caved in for $400 early on.
The scalper was satisfied nonetheless: "suckers", he thought.
Now the question is: do you want to be that guy?
I would stop calling it a profession because that's just odd, and capitalism is inherently evil, I don't think you can make many distinction within.
Ticket scalping is inherently evil.
Picture yourself 10 years old.
The brand new Nintendo Switch you've been reading about online for months is about to hit the market. You've been eagerly expecting it for such a long time...
You're in luck, it comes out just a couple of weeks before your birthday.
So when your parents ask what kind of gift you want, you don't even hesitate for a split second: the Switch it is, of course!
Comes March 3. The timing feels so right! Your dad remembers when he got his own SNES back in the day.
$299+tax is a bit of a stretch financially speaking; your family is typical middle class, your parents aren't rich and have a few debts. Plus they have to get you Zelda along with the console.
But they know you've been making tremendous efforts at school in the past few months in order to get good grades; they promised you you'd have your Switch if you did, and you delivered. So now it's their turn, and they're happy to oblige.
They go to Walmart, their usual place to buy stuff. But no Switch. "When are you going to receive new stock?" they ask. The employee has no idea.
Your parents leave Walmart and go to a mom and pop store. "It's usually a bit more expensive", they say, "but at least he'll get his present". But alas, no luck there either.
"Let's check Amazon", your dad says. And Amazon he checks. Both your parents' faces blemish when they discover the only Switches available are marked up at least 100%.
They can't afford that.
They're left with no choice. Right after you finish your dessert that evening, they tell you : "I'm sorry dear, we can't find your game console anywhere." Your mom tears up a bit when you reply: "but you promised!"
"We know. We're sorry. We'll try to make it up to you."
Fast forward.
Christmas. The next year. You're finally there, with your Switch still wrapped in gifting paper.
In the meantime, one of your calssmates, the "rich" kid who always has everything before everybody else, managed to get one and invited you over a couple of times to try it. So when you open your package, it's a lot less magical, of course. You're still happy, sure. But rich kid has already spoiled Zelda and Mario for you.
Bah, you know you'll have fun anyways. You're 11 now. You've learnt to live with a bit of disappointment.
All of this because on launch day, some guy decided to snatch 6 Switches he wasn't even interested in instead of buying 0, just to "make a buck". Of course, he sold nothing with his 100% marked up price, and three weeks later, ended up craiglisting half of his stock for $340 - barely making any money off the units because of the taxes he had to pay on his initial purchase.
He calculated his net profit for the total operation. They barely amounted to $200, thanks to one man who caved in for $400 early on.
The scalper was satisfied nonetheless: "suckers", he thought.
Now the question is: do you want to be that guy?
I particularly have zero respect for anyone who does it for products in a hobby that they enjoy; find it incredibly crass to see people on video game forums bragging about scalping consoles for instance.
Is it also inherently evil for me to wait in line to buy tickets to a concert for a friend even if I have no interest in going myself?
Is it inherently evil if my friend know I have a day off and asks me to wait in line to buy tickets for him?
Is it inherently evil if my friend offers to pay me a 100 dollars to wait in line and buy tickets for him?
This is more like this.
I know this concert my friend wants to go to and I know he has to be at work and can't sit pounding refresh on the browser. So I'll buy the tickets to the concert he loves and then sell them to him at a $100 more than I bought them for because I know he has no other way to enjoy this concert he has been so excited to see for ages.
Yes, that is evil.
If he's already agreed to pay an extra $100 beforehand, that's fine, but if you just buy the ticket with the intention of marking it up and taking advantage of your friend's extra money, then you're a shitty friend.Really so the alternative is he doesn't get to see the concert that he loves at all? Your right that`s a way better answer.
Now I`m miserable I don`t have a 100
Hes miserable he doesn't get to see the show.
Everyone`s equal!
This is more like this.
I know this concert my friend wants to go to and I know he has to be at work and can't sit pounding refresh on the browser. So I'll buy the tickets to the concert he loves and then sell them to him at a $100 more than I bought them for because I know he has no other way to enjoy this concert he has been so excited to see for ages.
Yes, that is evil.
If he's already agreed to pay an extra $100 beforehand, that's fine, but if you just buy the ticket with the intention of marking it up and taking advantage of your friend's extra money, then you're a shitty friend.
What does it matter? The ends are exactly the same. He would be a shitty friend if he knew you spent alot of time on something and didnt offer to compensate them.
Ive borrowed a friends truck to move. It took 3 hours I gave him 80 bucks and a lot of beer.
I just dont see what intent has anything to do with situations at all. The end result is the only thing that matters, who gives a shit why somebody does something.
Your analogy is not really applicable--your friend did not set the price and you chose to pay what you wanted. It was also for a service/rental and not a physically scarce item.
Anyway, to make it close to an analogous situation, if you asked your friend to borrow his truck, and you knew that the market price was 80 bucks, but he asked you for 400 bucks after you used the truck, does it matter?
But it wouldnt be 400 after you use, your not going to the concert then paying for the ticket. If I asked to use my friends truck willing to pay 80 but hes no unless I pay 400.
Then I either pay or dont use his truck. Thats it, its his truck.
Its no different then if I asked to use and offered to pay and he said "No" it doesnt matter why he says no the end result is still the same.
But it wouldnt be 400 after you use, your not going to the concert then paying for the ticket. If I asked to use my friends truck willing to pay 80 but hes no unless I pay 400.
Then I either pay or dont use his truck. Thats it, its his truck.
Hephaestus said:Its no different then if I asked to use and offered to pay and he said "No" it doesnt matter why he says no the end result is still the same.
Isn't it a huge pain in the ass to schedule meetups with sellers on OfferUp and drive all around town to meet them?No, I buy stuff online at other local listing apps like OfferUp and resell on eBay.
Picture yourself 10 years old.
The brand new Nintendo Switch you've been reading about online for months is about to hit the market. You've been eagerly expecting it for such a long time...
You're in luck, it comes out just a couple of weeks before your birthday.
So when your parents ask what kind of gift you want, you don't even hesitate for a split second: the Switch it is, of course!
Comes March 3. The timing feels so right! Your dad remembers when he got his own SNES back in the day.
$299+tax is a bit of a stretch financially speaking; your family is typical middle class, your parents aren't rich and have a few debts. Plus they have to get you Zelda along with the console.
But they know you've been making tremendous efforts at school in the past few months in order to get good grades; they promised you you'd have your Switch if you did, and you delivered. So now it's their turn, and they're happy to oblige.
They go to Walmart, their usual place to buy stuff. But no Switch. "When are you going to receive new stock?" they ask. The employee has no idea.
Your parents leave Walmart and go to a mom and pop store. "It's usually a bit more expensive", they say, "but at least he'll get his present". But alas, no luck there either.
"Let's check Amazon", your dad says. And Amazon he checks. Both your parents' faces blemish when they discover the only Switches available are marked up at least 100%.
They can't afford that.
They're left with no choice. Right after you finish your dessert that evening, they tell you : "I'm sorry dear, we can't find your game console anywhere." Your mom tears up a bit when you reply: "but you promised!"
"We know. We're sorry. We'll try to make it up to you."
Fast forward.
Christmas. The next year. You're finally there, with your Switch still wrapped in gifting paper.
In the meantime, one of your calssmates, the "rich" kid who always has everything before everybody else, managed to get one and invited you over a couple of times to try it. So when you open your package, it's a lot less magical, of course. You're still happy, sure. But rich kid has already spoiled Zelda and Mario for you.
Bah, you know you'll have fun anyways. You're 11 now. You've learnt to live with a bit of disappointment.
All of this because on launch day, some guy decided to snatch 6 Switches he wasn't even interested in instead of buying 0, just to "make a buck". Of course, he sold nothing with his 100% marked up price, and three weeks later, ended up craiglisting half of his stock for $340 - barely making any money off the units because of the taxes he had to pay on his initial purchase.
He calculated his net profit for the total operation. They barely amounted to $200, thanks to one man who caved in for $400 early on.
The scalper was satisfied nonetheless: "suckers", he thought.
Now the question is: do you want to be that guy?
Its not really the same either way.
Lets say there was a place where you could rent a truck. This is the only place near you where you can rent a truck. The cost for renting a truck is 80 bucks for two hours at the place. Now you go there to rent a truck. When you arrive the guy tells you that he's sorry but they're out of trucks to rent atm, he just rented the last one to a guy outside. Disappointed that you cant rent the truck you go outside.
Now the guy approices you and say,
- Hey! I heard you need to rent a truck.
Yes! I do
- Well I don't actually need the truck I just rented it so you have to rent it from me more expensive instead. That will be 400 bucks for two hours.
Is it evil? Yes.
Scalpers often deal in goods that because they are scarce, have inelastic demand (the price doesn't matter). To make your analogy be similar, the charge comes after the fact.
If he says, "No, because you won't pay me $400" versus "No, my truck is broken" versus "No, your BO will be hard to wash away" versus "No, I only let my real friends borrow it" versus "No, I need it that day", does it matter?
Is capitalism inherently bad?
Even if the friend said he'd pay $100 extra beforehand, actually making him pay it is still a dickheaded move if you consider this any kind of good to very good friend, especially of all you were doing was mashing F5 on a website.If he's already agreed to pay an extra $100 beforehand, that's fine, but if you just buy the ticket with the intention of marking it up and taking advantage of your friend's extra money, then you're a shitty friend.
I would stop calling it a profession because that's just odd, and capitalism is inherently evil, I don't think you can make many distinction within.
Picture yourself 10 years old.
The brand new Nintendo Switch you've been reading about online for months is about to hit the market. You've been eagerly expecting it for such a long time...
You're in luck, it comes out just a couple of weeks before your birthday.
So when your parents ask what kind of gift you want, you don't even hesitate for a split second: the Switch it is, of course!
Comes March 3. The timing feels so right! Your dad remembers when he got his own SNES back in the day.
$299+tax is a bit of a stretch financially speaking; your family is typical middle class, your parents aren't rich and have a few debts. Plus they have to get you Zelda along with the console.
But they know you've been making tremendous efforts at school in the past few months in order to get good grades; they promised you you'd have your Switch if you did, and you delivered. So now it's their turn, and they're happy to oblige.
They go to Walmart, their usual place to buy stuff. But no Switch. "When are you going to receive new stock?" they ask. The employee has no idea.
Your parents leave Walmart and go to a mom and pop store. "It's usually a bit more expensive", they say, "but at least he'll get his present". But alas, no luck there either.
"Let's check Amazon", your dad says. And Amazon he checks. Both your parents' faces blemish when they discover the only Switches available are marked up at least 100%.
They can't afford that.
They're left with no choice. Right after you finish your dessert that evening, they tell you : "I'm sorry dear, we can't find your game console anywhere." Your mom tears up a bit when you reply: "but you promised!"
"We know. We're sorry. We'll try to make it up to you."
Fast forward.
Christmas. The next year. You're finally there, with your Switch still wrapped in gifting paper.
In the meantime, one of your calssmates, the "rich" kid who always has everything before everybody else, managed to get one and invited you over a couple of times to try it. So when you open your package, it's a lot less magical, of course. You're still happy, sure. But rich kid has already spoiled Zelda and Mario for you.
Bah, you know you'll have fun anyways. You're 11 now. You've learnt to live with a bit of disappointment.
All of this because on launch day, some guy decided to snatch 6 Switches he wasn't even interested in instead of buying 0, just to "make a buck". Of course, he sold nothing with his 100% marked up price, and three weeks later, ended up craiglisting half of his stock for $340 - barely making any money off the units because of the taxes he had to pay on his initial purchase.
He calculated his net profit for the total operation. They barely amounted to $200, thanks to one man who caved in for $400 early on.
The scalper was satisfied nonetheless: "suckers", he thought.
Now the question is: do you want to be that guy?
Unless a product is manufactured in numbers that mirror the population growth of the entire world, scarcity will always exist, is that correct?
Your analogy doesn't hold up. In your version of the truck example you give a guy who rents a truck for himself 400 bucks. That's like if you know someone who's going to an Ariana Grande concert and you really wanted to go, so you offer to buy his ticket. There's no problem with that.Again whats the difference if theres no trucks theres no trucks. If I say "no" to the guy or if there is no guy there. The end is the same I still dont have a truck.
Lets say you run outside and catch the guy that rented the truck and said "Hey I need it badly I will give you 400 dollars for your rental. The guy says "sure!" I can wait for another weekend to move.
Why is that different if I approach the guy or he approaches me? If I go to a concert or a hockey game, and yell "I will give a 1000 dollars for 2 tickets" and people that were going to go say "sure here you go" Its the same result.
When we deal with physical items that are scarce and have inelastic demand (the specific scenario where scalpers operate), it would still mean that scalpers will buy them for 500 and still charge a markup. This is why people are introducing scarcity and a strong demand to "fix" your analogies.Would it change anything that instead of a scalper buying a 100 dollar item and raising it too 500. That the company just charges 500 themselves?
Eh, it's both pretty bad. Sure, one is worse than the other, but there are people who feel a strong emotional connection to Adèle. Let's say there's a bullied teenage girl who got through some very tough times because of Adèle. Adèle finally has a concert near where the girl lives, so she has been saving up money for the last months to be able to pay for the concert.Shitttt no the world was founded on people buying up resources and charging more for others. OP if you were withholding water from African babies then yeah I would call you out but if you are stopping some people from seeing Adele, then who cares.
Also I would argue that music is culture and gating poor people from culture is incredibly shitty.Eh, it's both pretty bad. Sure, one is worse than the other, but there are people who feel a strong emotional connection to Adèle. Let's say there's a bullied teenage girl who got through some very tough times because of Adèle. Adèle finally has a concert near where the girl lives, so she has been saving up money for the last months to be able to pay for the concert.
The tickets go into sale and she misses out on tickets because some assholes bot-bought a hundred tickets and were keeping up the online waiting list. Now the only way for the girl to see Adèle is to buy tickets that are 100-150% more expensive. Is this really okay just because a ticket for Adèle is a luxury product?