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Is "Youse Guys" a bad phrase?

U

umop_3pisdn

Member
pigeon said:
Many people believe that using "man" instead of "human" for the species does exclude female experiences and contributions, for the same reason!
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That's true, but I think a case can be made for formal language (which "man"/"human" would be) obliging more precision from us than informal language. One of the markers of informal or casual language is almost that it is slipshod or in some way ambiguous or imprecise.
 
C

Creaking

He touched the black heart of a mod
Saying "y'all", or I guess really enunciating it makes me want to swallow. Like, it's just uncomfortable. How do you guys feel?
 
P

pigeon

Banned
umop_3pisdn said:
That's true, but I think a case can be made for formal language (which "man"/"human" would be) obliging more precision from us than informal language.
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Sure. This is generally why I don't get annoyed about people using "guys" as a gender-neutral term. But I can understand why somebody might, and I try to avoid it myself.
 
C

Cagey

Banned
Creaking said:
Saying "y'all", or I guess really enunciating it makes me want to swallow. Like, it's just uncomfortable. How do you guys feel?
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Saying yall makes me feel very stupid.

So I never say it unless I'm referencing the actual "word" to say, for example, "saying "y'all" makes you sound dumb."
 
M

Mr.Mike

Member
I heard just "yous" from a waiter once, which was interesting since it's not a word I've ever heard here. I like it though, it's basically vous anglicized and I hope it catches on.
 
N

NervousXtian

Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
Subpar Spatula said:
it's not gender neutral. it never was. the word "guy" refers to males. i'm sure there are plenty of people who dislike the phrase hence why you see "Hey all", "Hey everyone" "Hey folks" etc. because they know it's exclusionary and keeps the status quo. Just men all around would make a stink if they were asked to use something else.
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No, it's gender neutral. Has been for a LONG time.
 
K

KernelPanic

Member
Wood Man said:
tenor.gif
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I love this forum.
 
E

Einchy

semen stains the mountaintops
How many of ya'll saying ya'll aren't from the South? Feels like ya'll is becoming more and more accepted outside of the South.
 
A

Aiii

So not worth it
Subpar Spatula said:
can you think of other terms or phrases that are gender neutral when they heavily sway in either the male/female/other category?
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Just to be sure I was not imagining things I have checked several online dictionaries and they all have the following definition under guys, specificially pertaining to the phrase ”you guys"

It is defined as follows: ”persons of either sex"

So yeah, it is a gender neutral statement.
 
Subpar Spatula

Subpar Spatula

Banned
Aiii said:
Just to be sure I was not imagining things I have checked several online dictionaries and they all have the following definition under guys, specificially pertaining to the phrase “you guys”

It is as follows “persons of either sex”

So yeah, it is a gender neutral statement.
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Ok and the collinsdictionary is the absolute authority on this? Your argument is quite flimsy. Again, what are some other terms or phrases that are gender neutral that sway heavily into the male, female, or other category? The ones I can think of are male oriented.
 
The Chosen One

The Chosen One

Member
"you guys" is fine when referring to a group of men or women. However if you're writing a formal business letter or email, I would avoid it. Not because it would be offensive but because it would be a little too informal.

Instead of saying:
"What do you guys think about having the meeting on Tuesday?"

Say this:
"What does the group think about having a meeting on Tuesday?"

Or:

"Does having the meeting on Tuesday work for everybody?"
 
E

Einchy

semen stains the mountaintops
Subpar Spatula said:
Ok and the collinsdictionary is the absolute authority on this? Your argument is quite flimsy. Again, what are some other terms or phrases that are gender neutral that sway heavily into the male, female, or other category? The ones I can think of are male oriented.
Click to expand...

I think just knowing English is an authority here.
 
C

CHC

Member
The person was an asshole, for sure, but this thread IS making me consider starting to use "you all." I can't say "y'all" but like someone else mentioned, "you all" is delightfully quaint.
 
A

Aiii

So not worth it
Subpar Spatula said:
Ok and the collinsdictionary is the absolute authority on this? Your argument is quite flimsy. Again, what are some other terms or phrases that are gender neutral that sway heavily into the male, female, or other category? The ones I can think of are male oriented.
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The link was an example, you can google it yourself and consult other dictionaries, they all state it as a gender neutral term. Just because it has the word guy in it, doesn’t mean it cannot be gender neutral in this context, which for all intents and purposes it is.

There is no argument to be had here, it is a gender neutral statement and in no way impacts anyones right to their identity. It doesn’t infer male or female, despite the word guy on its own infering one.
 
A

Asbel

Member
ItIsOkBro said:
i try not to say it if im taking to a group of named individuals and one of them is a girl. for example, if im on a call with clients id say 'bye everyone' instead of 'bye guys.'
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Everyone sounds like a good replacement.

I got called out for addressing a group as you guys in person before. The girl got mad and said I was rude for not addressing her too. I thought she was joking at first then I looked at her face and nope, she was legit offended.
 
E

Earthbound64

Banned
Subpar Spatula said:
Ok and the collinsdictionary is the absolute authority on this? Your argument is quite flimsy. Again, what are some other terms or phrases that are gender neutral that sway heavily into the male, female, or other category? The ones I can think of are male oriented.
Click to expand...

I mean, you have languages like Spanish, where f.pl. is only used if the entire group is female. As soon as you add 1 male to it, it becomes m.pl.
It's a common thing throughout languages in general.

If you want neuter, we can all start speaking Latin again.
 
M

MightyHedgehog

Member
It's fine. I'm a 'you guys' person since I grew up watching Electric Company in the late '70s and early '80s. The phrase is gender neutral since the '70s.
 
S

Shredderi

Member
Subpar Spatula said:
Ok and the collinsdictionary is the absolute authority on this? Your argument is quite flimsy. Again, what are some other terms or phrases that are gender neutral that sway heavily into the male, female, or other category? The ones I can think of are male oriented.
Click to expand...

I mean, we know for absolute certainty that you're not the absolute authority on it either.
 
J

jstripes

Banned
Also, our modern use of the word guy evolved from the prior English use of the word guy, which was an undesirable person, which came from the historic figure Guy (Guido) Fawkes.
 
Subpar Spatula

Subpar Spatula

Banned
Aiii said:
The link was an example, you can google it yourself and consult other dictionaries, they all state it as a gender neutral term. Just because it has the word guy in it, doesn't mean it cannot be gender neutral in this context, which for all intents and purposes it is.

There is no argument to be had here, it is a gender neutral statement and in no way impacts anyones right to their identity. It doesn't infer male or female, despite the word guy on its own infering one.
Click to expand...
Saying something is gender neutral doesn't make it gender neutral. You're believing an authority without examining the word. Let's look at the word "guys" for a second:

1) singular "guy" means male (as defined by your sources)
2) A group of women is "ladies" or whatever female term you want to use.
3) When a single guy is introduced it becomes "guys".

You have to ask yourself why. Why does it turn to guys where the singular is male only? You rarely see people going, "Hey dude" or "Hey guy" to a singular woman because it doesn't make sense.

Does this sound gender neutral? It doesn't because there's no middle ground: once a male is introduced the term is then switched when "ladies" cannot encompass males.

See below highlighted as an example.


Earthbound64 said:
I mean, you have languages like Spanish, where f.pl. is only used if the entire group is female. As soon as you add 1 male to it, it becomes m.pl.
It's a common thing throughout languages in general.
Click to expand...


Like, this isn't a big deal, it really isn't but it's smart to think about these things. Why? Maybe in time you'll change the way you speak or you gain insight into how be more respectful in general. It's a minor issue but it's still part a much bigger issue of how men are supposed to dominate in all spheres of society. I even said before in the thread, imagine if there was a push to replace "you guys" with "you gals", do you think it would be accepted? Both CAN be gender neutral but I feel strongly a large portion of people (mostly men) would be against.
 
T

TripleBee

Member
I actually ran into this scenario like 10 years ago. Said "guys" when referring to 3 women... and they replied "uh, we're women not guys"..... and then i sarcastically said "gals" like 3 times during the rest of the conversation - they were equally unamused.
 
R

Robdraggoo

Member
I used to be a corporate trainer and that phrase could get you in trouble just like it did with you.

Everyone and folks were my go to, mostly becuase i like to use the word folks
 
P

pigeon

Banned
NoblesseOblige said:
The inclusiveness of it seems to be region dependent.
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I mean, if the OP's question is "is it weird to think that you guys is a little sexist," the answer in this thread is pretty clearly "no, it's not that weird." Some people think it's fine, but clearly a bunch of people think it's problematic as well.

So I think this is probably the wrong takeaway. Just say "folks" and avoid the entire problem at zero cost.
 
E

Earthbound64

Banned
Subpar Spatula said:
Like, this isn't a big deal, it really isn't but it's smart to think about these things. Why? Maybe in time you'll change the way you speak or you gain insight into how be more respectful in general. It's a minor issue but it's still part a much bigger issue of how men are supposed to dominate in all spheres of society.
Click to expand...

So your point isn't that you're right or that others are wrong, your point is "Well, it makes you think, don't it?"
 
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