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[Atwa]

Nobody's saying nudity would be anything about which people couldn't differentiate fiction and real life.

Yes they are.

They are arguing that sexy women in games are damaging to women.

When its not, because it fictional and doesn't affect anyones view of women in real life.

Same as violence in games does not make someone violent. Seeing boobs in a video game doesn't make anyone sexist.

 

[Hektor]

It amuses me how some people keep trying to make nudity something acceptable in games.

Human bodys. Gross.

Sex in games is awkward, creepy and embarrassing to interact with, especially if someone else comes into the room. Explain that to your wife, why you are watching two computer generated people fuck...

Explain to your wife why you like to shoot other people's heads off.

 

[Aliand]

Human bodys. Gross.



Explain to your wife why you like to shoot other people's heads off.

Would not have said it better!

 

[igordennis]

Yes they are.

They are arguing that sexy women in games are damaging to women.

When its not, because it fictional and doesn't affect anyones view of women in real life.

Same as violence in games does not make someone violent. Seeing boobs in a video game doesn't make anyone sexist.

Lol media doesn't affect our world views guys. Nope. We are completely influence free individuals.

 

[QuantumZebra]

Because there isn't a single example of sex or nudity in games that isn't awful, childish cringeworthy shite.

and there it is

 

[BibiMaghoo]

Oh I don't know, perhaps, maybe, it's because violence tends to be mechanical in games, and sex and nudity is not? Because one is relevant to the players interaction, and the other is not? Because one is not aimed at a gender, but the other is almost universally aimed at a single gender? Because one doesn't reduce half the population to tropes and wank fodder, but the other does?

These are not the reasons. But they are actually the reasons.

Also for what it's worth, my respect for TT increased because they did not include nudity in GOT. The first TV season used as much as it could to attract viewers, and it would have been easy for TT to go down that path, but they didn't, and it's worthy of note I think.

 

[Zeouterlimits]

Bit of a pandora's box topic but it's the case for multiple reasons
-Not just video games, it's a difficult problem for a lot of media & society.
-Violence is a lot easier to do effectively and "satisfyingly" (from a game playing perspective)

There are games that do try to talk about and include sexuality, I think they've been a few good twine games that kind of bring passion into their mechanics pretty well.

 

[CelticVegas]

Yes they are.

They are arguing that sexy women in games are damaging to women.

When its not, because it fictional and doesn't affect anyones view of women in real life.

Same as violence in games does not make someone violent. Seeing boobs in a video game doesn't make anyone sexist.

No. Everyone that plays GTA is a psycho murder killer. Everyone who plays games with nudity is a pervo creepo misogynist. Lol

Explain to your wife why you like to shoot other people's heads off.

Also this. People that say violence is justified by gameplay can't see how they are desensitized by that.

 

[SomTervo]

I think it has something to do with the sort of Christians USA breeds. Violence is normal and accepted, sex is taboo. Somebody think of the children.

It's Victorian and Christian in origin. Not specifically USA.

 

[Battlechili]

Catherine does a good job of bringing up sex and relationships as an important part of the game.

Oh I don't know, perhaps, maybe, it's because violence tends to be mechanical in games, and sex and nudity is not? Because one is relevant to the players interaction, and the other is not?

You're speaking as if gameplay is the only thing that's important in video games.

 

[Staccat0]

I think that the common violence and power fantasies of videogames is comedically taboo among gamers.

Because there isn't a single example of sex or nudity in games that isn't awful, childish cringeworthy shite.

There is nudity in LA Noire that is fine. It's not sexual in any way, but it's fine. Still you're point is correct.

 

[mario_O]

because video games are an inelegant, crass medium. i'd rather have tasteless violence than tasteless sex and nudity

Hey, Fallout 4 nudity mods are nice. But I do find myself stripping every raider now. lol

 

[Mihos]

We are the ones in the wrong? Yeah alright, Mr Pervy McPerverson.


Sex in games is awkward, creepy and embarrassing to interact with, especially if someone else comes into the room. Explain that to your wife, why you are watching two computer generated people fuck...

dude..... please.... ask your wife to read her "romantic novel" out loud and see which is more awkward.

My wife would probably ask me to rewind it so she can see it from the begining. Her favorite thing to do right now is answer the phone 'Well, Hello... and What can I do fer you' in her best Patty from DQ Heroes voice.

To bad I can't get her to actually play them instead of just watching me.

Hey, Fallout 4 nudity mods are nice. But I do find myself stripping every raider now. lol

ugh, I wish I was better than that.... but I was guilty of that also in Fallout 3

 

[SkeptiMism]

Yes they are.

They are arguing that sexy women in games are damaging to women.

When its not, because it fictional and doesn't affect anyones view of women in real life.

Same as violence in games does not make someone violent. Seeing boobs in a video game doesn't make anyone sexist.

No they are not. They are saying that the disproportionate amount of objectification of women is damaging.

This also doesn't mean that it makes anyone sexist in itself, but it does affect us. Media affecting us is a fact.

 

[Dictator93]

It's Victorian and Christian in origin. Not specifically USA.

Anglo-American

There we go.

 

[UrbanRats]

Yes. America is much more Catholic than, say, OP's home country of Italy: the Catholic Capital of the world.

It is misguided to assume this has anything to do with religion. Because it's 2015 and it doesn't.

In 2015, centuries of cultural background disappeared like magic.

Snark aside, blaming religion is a lazy answer, but to claim that elements that deeply shaped the culture a lot of people absorbed since birth has nothing to do with it?

Religion is part of the puzzle, like many other cultural elements.


The real problem though, is that the OP conflated all sort of critism into one big basket.
There are different sorts of criticism of sex in games, coming from different places and criticising different aspects.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

South Park


Heheh...absolutely necessary...and hilarious.

Best use of sex and nudity in any game ever.

 

[Deceitful-Fox]

Oh I don't know, perhaps, maybe, it's because violence tends to be mechanical in games, and sex and nudity is not? Because one is relevant to the players interaction, and the other is not? Because one is not aimed at a gender, but the other is almost universally aimed at a single gender? Because one doesn't reduce half the population to tropes and wank fodder, but the other does?

These are not the reasons. But they are actually the reasons.

Also for what it's worth, my respect for TT increased because they did not include nudity in GOT. The first TV season used as much as it could to attract viewers, and it would have been easy for TT to go down that path, but they didn't, and it's worthy of note I think.

Games do tend to reduce the other half of the population to literal cannon fodder with no personality whatsoever. Just an obstacle to be overcome. You know, ACTUAL objectification, in the psychological sense, not the made up kind. Just something to think about...

 

[TheSlySoul]

It amuses me how some people keep trying to make nudity something acceptable in games.

If the brutal kills in Manhunt is acceptable, nudity should be fine as well.
No double standards.

 

[Magwik]

Because there isn't a single example of sex or nudity in games that isn't awful, childish cringeworthy shite.

Wolfenstien: The New Order

 

[Aaron D.]

Games can't even get narrative right. Writing is incredibly rudimentary & childish.

Throwing adult themes of sexuality into the mix sounds like a disaster.

You'd want it to be thoughtful and mature, but it would only wind of being like an embarrassing teen sex-comedy like American Pie or Porky's.

 

[thorsilver]

We are the ones in the wrong? Yeah alright, Mr Pervy McPerverson.


Sex in games is awkward, creepy and embarrassing to interact with, especially if someone else comes into the room. Explain that to your wife, why you are watching two computer generated people fuck...

I'm amazed at how many people keep posting something equivalent to this. There is nothing *inherently* awkward, creepy, or embarrassing about 'two computer generated people fucking'. That's simply how you, personally, feel when viewing such content -- plenty of other people would not share that feeling.

So why is it exactly that you, and so many others in this thread, feel awkward at the sight of sexual content in a game? Is it a cultural thing? Upbringing? Do you feel the same when viewing sexual content in a TV show or movie, or reading it in a book, and if not, what makes games any different?

These are all interesting questions IMO.

It sort of makes a case when it's been going on for more than a year and it really isn't an isolated case nor the first time there's been so much harassment and misogyny to women in the industry but whatever, there isn't any problem at all, it's just some bad people and there's no proof whatsoever that sexism in videogames is a problem affecting women in real life.

You're answering a question about sexism in video games by pointing to sexism in the game industry, i.e. real life. So you're basically saying that real-life sexism affects women in real life, which is a bit tautological.

The original question was about whether sexist content in the game itself affects real life. To my knowledge the only longitudinal study of the impact of sexist content in video games found no correlation between exposure to games and sexist attitudes:

https://vgresearcher.wordpress.com/...man-video-game-players-breuer-et-al-in-press/

Granted the study has shortcomings, as all studies do, but in general the cultivation theory of repeated exposure to media solidifying negative behaviours/attitudes does not seem to stand up to scrutiny (as in the case of violence and video games). So if you have other studies to share which do demonstrate associations between sexist content in games and real-life sexist attitudes, by all means share them.

 

[DryEyeRelief]

Games can't even get narrative right. Writing is incredibly rudimentary & childish.

Throwing adult themes of sexuality into the mix sounds like a disaster.

You'd want it to be thoughtful and mature, but it would only wind of being like an embarrassing teen sex-comedy like American Pie or Porky's.

That doesn't matter. OP's point is if over the top games like Mortal Kombat and Gears of War exist, then why can't you have sexual depictions that are the equivalent of the violence in those games?

It being tasteless and unreal isn't the concern.

 

[Boss Doggie]

Again, I am laughing at the idea that sex has to be "beautiful" or "grand". Violence isn't, and the only time they are is when they're in games like Devil May Cry or Bayonetta.

One night stands and the generic "let's have sex because" exist and is normal.

 

[CadetMahoney]

Curious about the "it's not a problem where I live" crowd. It isn't? Mainstream on-the-market games are basically monoplized and exported to the rest of the world with US/UK approach to nudity/sex and there's nothing anyone else can do about it.

Except the same old boring nude mods or start playing hentai games.

 

[twobear]

You're answering a question about sexism in video games by pointing to sexism in the game industry, i.e. real life. So you're basically saying that real-life sexism affects women in real life, which is a bit tautological.

The original question was about whether sexist content in the game itself affects real life. To my knowledge the only longitudinal study of the impact of sexist content in video games found no correlation between exposure to games and sexist attitudes:

https://vgresearcher.wordpress.com/...man-video-game-players-breuer-et-al-in-press/

Granted the study has shortcomings, as all studies do, but in general the cultivation theory of repeated exposure to media solidifying negative behaviours/attitudes does not seem to stand up to scrutiny (as in the case of violence and video games). So if you have other studies to share which do demonstrate associations between sexist content in games and real-life sexist attitudes, by all means share them.

Well presumably there's a complicated cause and effect going on. People don't turn sexist by consuming sexist media (for the most part), but sexist media prolong a cultural status quo that ensures that the root causes are never properly addressed.

 

[Jobbs]

I'm sure 7 pages of people have pointed this out already, but this is even more true in television.

The Walking Dead at 9pm on TV has some of the most horrific violence I've seen, some of the deaths have bordered on torture porn, stuff that'd get this an R rating in movie theaters -- But words like "fuck" or a woman's breasts are completely off limits.

 

[Aaron D.]

That doesn't matter. OP's point is if over the top games like Mortal Kombat and Gears of War exist, then why can't you have sexual depictions that are the equivalent of the violence in those games?

It being tasteless and unreal isn't the concern.

False dichotomy. Both the fetishizing representation of violence and the sexual objectification of women are both problematic issues in society and symptomatic in video games. One doesn't preclude the other.

whynotboth.gif

.

 

[Deceitful-Fox]

Curious about the "it's not a problem where I live" crowd. It isn't? Mainstream on-the-market games are basically monoplized and exported to the rest of the world with US/UK approach to nudity/sex and there's nothing anyone else can do about it.

Except the same old boring nude mods or start playing hentai games.

I think what they mean is the puritanical attitudes to sex aren't a problem where they live. Obviously there's nothing they can do about the games industry itself, being US centric.

 

[DryEyeRelief]

.

Yeah the thread should have ended at that post but the OP is looking for a justification for his love for Dead or Alive

 

[partyphone]

sex and violence are two completely different things(most of the time) and the propensity of people on this site to conflate the two is getting a bit ridiculous.

video games are really bad at depicting drug use, too. why not throw that into the mix?

 

[SliceSabre]

I do find it amusing how people find a lady big tits in a game to be more of a detriment to society and video games than my character ripping out spines and going on killing sprees.

In reality one is something you can do all the time and is legal, and nobody will blink an eye, the other is something that is illegal, ruins lives, causes actual pain and suffering, leads to financial ruin and can get you killed or thrown in jail by the government. People jump through hoops to justify how a sexy lady in a game is some grand evil compared to cracking people's skulls open and drinking their blood.

Hell you want another one thrown into the mix: drug use. I've found video games make drug use not seem all that bad with many encouraging you to get loaded up on some drugs. Yet you don't see advocates running about making video series about rampant drug use in video games.

 

[TC McQueen]

I'm amazed at how many people keep posting something equivalent to this. There is nothing *inherently* awkward, creepy, or embarrassing about 'two computer generated people fucking'. That's simply how you, personally, feel when viewing such content -- plenty of other people would not share that feeling.

I think it's because the model and animation quality in most of those sex scenes is terrible, which makes them look really cringe-worthy (assuming the writing hasn't given the scene creepy/weird overtones, which makes it worse).

 

[TheOfficeMut]

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

The act.



Bad people can be found in any community. It doesn't really make a case.

wait a second you're saying...?

 

[Famassu]

There's really nothing wrong with sex & nudity, but a lot of this "sex & nudity" in games is done in a very tasteless or horribly juvenile & dumb manner that focuses almost exclusively on objectifying & even making sexually victimized women entertaining, instead of handling it with any kind of maturity. Sure, the same could be said for violence, but I feel objectifying women is a far larger problem in most layers of society than people going around "BOOM! Headshot!"ting other people, so it's kind of more important to get positive representation of women & their role in sex out there.

The problem with sex & nudity in games is that they are just a 5 second QTE fuck for Kratos that gives him health & experience points in God of War. You can fuck 'em & kill 'em in GTA. Grotesque (half?)naked bloody women in Bioshock. You straight up molest them in Criminal Girls. The best armor for women in some (MMO)RPGs are basically metallic bikinis which makes no sense. And DOAX just has you ogling at scantily clad women in sometimes awkward poses & situations. It's like... these games are made for men who have never seen a woman naked IRL before and get an instant hard-on with the slightest sight of side-boob or something, instead of having a more healthy approach to nudity & sex where not every (attractive) woman is immediately just an object for sexual lust.

I'm assuming this whining in the OP is because of DOAX3 not coming to the west. I think some of the criticism comes from the idea that while they've had revealing outfits in DOA games before, they default to some pretty decent looking outfits that don't objectify them too much (other than the boob jiggle) and are generally fairly capable women in a decent fighting game franchise. Even if they are virtual characters, it kind of cheapens those characters when they are put into as pandering a game as DOAX. People would probably have less of a problem with a game like if it wasn't a spin-off to an otherwise (at least somewhat) respected fighting game franchise with characters from that franchise.

While violence is a bit too easily accepted in video games (& generally), let's not pretend that it always gets a free pass. Violence is just often better contextualized (i.e. war shooters, post-apocalyptic dystopia with cannibals & ruthless scavengers) or it's against imaginary boogeymen who are out to kill you no matter what. Still, when you go totally overboard with violence with very little reason or rhyme, there are people criticizing it (i.e. killing hookers in GTA, killing totally innocent people in Postal just for fun, the violence porn that is Manhunt, even Nathan Drake killing thousands of enemies during the Uncharted games).

 

[PMS341]

As a previous Gamestop manager of nearly 8 years, it's most definitely an American culture issue (perhaps religiously influenced, given the idea of the values).

Parents never minded much about the violent aspects of GTA, Far Cry, etc., but the moment you mention strip clubs or any other general nudity, all hell breaks loose.

 

[Boss Doggie]

I think it's because the model and animation quality in most of those sex scenes is terrible, which makes them look really cringe-worthy (assuming the writing hasn't given the scene creepy/weird overtones, which makes it worse).

I dunno, people have no problem with weird rag-doll physics in violence. Hey, imagine rag-doll sex!

.

Yeah the thread should have ended at that post but the OP is looking for a justification for his love for Dead or Alive

Pretty sure sex, or at least the idea of sex, involves multiple parties getting it on, not sexism and rights.

 

[Sephiroth_VII]

Exactly.

And whenever someone who does not play video games gets a glimpse of a few minutes into , say, the campaign of Black Ops 2 or Tomb Raider or Last of Us, and they are shocked, like for real. And gamers then get defensive, MOOOOOM IT IS JUST A GAME, JEEZ. But sex!

Btw, I have a feeling that there are many visual novels with compelling stories and interesting plot twists that move way beyond the "lets sleep with 'em all", but we just do not care enough to find them, or they are not translated.

Clannad was just translated, and it's amazing. Go buy it on Steam. If enough people buy it, they might do After Story as well, and that one has sex(it's also an even better game than the original).

A lot of great adult visual novels have translations already, but none of them are on Steam, AFAIK.

 

[Mendrox]

Haha @ all these American people that say that sex/fanservice is awkward in games. I can understand the pedo bait shit in some games, but I also think that it is funny to censor sex (which is the most natural thing in the world) and let kids play violent games too.

Why should my girlfriend care that there are people fucking in a video game? She wouldn't be the right one if she would complain - it is a fucking game. Glad that I don't have that problem with mine.

Men and woman are never potrayed right in any media form - movies, video games, ads... everything! And you know what? People have other problems in this world and not really that much people care about that.

Some people should be a bit more open to sexuality.

Clannad was just translated, and it's amazing. Go buy it on Steam. If enough people buy it, they might do After Story as well, and that one has sex(it's also an even better game than the original).

A lot of great adult visual novels have translations already, but none of them are on Steam, AFAIK.

Clannad got split in the game release? The normal release has both storys in the game, didn't it? After story got unlocked after the normal Clannad arc (and the story requirement of collecting orbs)

 

[legacyzero]

I enjoy both, TBH. Then I sit back and watch as haters of both get angry.

I dont really have an issue with either until they start crossing ridiculous lines.

 

[SomTervo]

Yes they are.

They are arguing that sexy women in games are damaging to women.

When its not, because it fictional and doesn't affect anyones view of women in real life.

Same as violence in games does not make someone violent. Seeing boobs in a video game doesn't make anyone sexist.

You don't understand.

Sexualisation is fine (women being sexy in games, men being sexy in games).

Sexual objectification is not fine (female characters being quantified ONLY by how 'sexy' they are, and the hugely disproportionately amount of female-focused sexualisation vs. male-focused sexualisation. This is a problem and it is structurally sexist paradigm.)

Also structural sexism is passive. You don't need to hate women to take part in a structurally sexist society. For instance, in a structurally sexist culture (eg under certain religious codes of law), it is totally OK to beat your wife. You won't think twice about it because the sexism is normalised, it's "structural".

In the west, loads of media features fully clothed, normal-looking males, while the (fewer) female characters are partially clothed and sexy. And lots of people don't think twice about it. You don't have to actively be sexist to participate in a structurally sexist society.

As a straight, white male, I find this stuff, frankly, traumatic to come to terms with. You start seeing it everywhere and the guilt is crazy. But this is a good thing - the more we acknowledge it the more we can change it.

dude..... please.... ask your wife to read her "romantic novel" out loud and see which is more awkward.

That's the thing - it's largely about quality and maturity of content, not the genre/type of content itself.

 

[John Kowalski]

i feel like saying that if violence is accepted then nudity and sex should be puts both on similar moral and ethical grounds which is definitely not the case, and it's also exemplary of how little we expect of games

 

[Boss Doggie]

idk but you got poor quality that target both genders so

I enjoy both, TBH. Then I sit back and watch as haters of both get angry.

I dont really have an issue with either until they start crossing ridiculous lines.

Pretty much. And seriously even if it's crap it just means you could make fun of it.

 

[ieptbarakat]

As a previous Gamestop manager of nearly 8 years, it's most definitely an American culture issue (perhaps religiously influenced, given the idea of the values).

It definitely is religiously influenced, puritan values and prudishness are still deeply rooted in american beliefs.

 

[Lord British]

i feel like saying that if violence is accepted then nudity and sex should be puts both on similar moral and ethical grounds which is definitely not the case, and it's also exemplary of how little we expect of games

Agree.

 

[Boss Doggie]

i feel like saying that if violence is accepted then nudity and sex should be puts both on similar moral and ethical grounds which is definitely not the case, and it's also exemplary of how little we expect of games

Agree.

but how are they different then? the reason would then once more go back to the roots

 

[Occam]

Did you know that after the Victorian era, it was taboo for men as well as women to show any skin except their head/hands? There was apparently a whole movement in the 1910s for men to go topless and this be okay, and the movement was successful almost immediately.

Also check out this BBC article:

Toplessness - the one Victorian taboo that won't go away

So it's possibly Anglo-American? I wonder if current American media Puritanism (nipple hypocrisy) is really related to Victorian bigotry, considering (as I pointed out) American media (and society) was more open regarding sexuality after the 1960s. It's certainly not a general western thing.
I'd say it's actually more closely related to the currently popular brand of puritan American eye-for-an-eye Christianity (which makes no sense as "eye-for-an-eye" is from the old testament and contradicts the teachings of Jesus). I actually wonder which hole this crawled out of, and why.

 

[IISANDERII]

We live in a fucked up world.

 

[TheOfficeMut]

We live in a fucked up world.

That would be censored.