Care to provide examples to the contrary then?
Seem to be having real difficulty getting good examples.
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It amuses me how violence in games is largely accepted but nudity and sex aren't.
- Thread starter CelticVegas
- Start date
Care to provide examples to the contrary then?
Seem to be having real difficulty getting good examples.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Those CIS shows are a dime a dozen, and I've seen some nasty crime scenes.
Even those ER shows display some pretty gross stuff.
Denton
Member
Two that come to mind I played recently, Wolfenstein and Witcher 3. Older example, Mafia (keeping tech limitations in mind).
This is more of an argument for the US or GB. In continental Europe nudity isn't avoided at all cost. Graphic representations of sex certainly don't appear during prime time, but the odd book is cause for alarm if it shows up before 20:00. Even ads for shower gels show boobs an nary an eye is batted anywhere.
From my response right after:
I think he's wrong - and I think there are decent examples. A very good one is the Wolfenstein: The New Order
scene with BJ and Anna having sex
Conkerkid11
Member
Not sure what qualifies as network TV, but CSI shows cadavers being picked apart, some shows show real surgeries and whatnot, then you've got Hannibal doing its thing. Oh, and then there's the news.
Can't the same be said of violence?
To add to this, even here in Canada things get off lighter for language and sex than they do for violence, be it TV or cinema.
It really feels like an American thing most of the time.
Sapphire Dreams
Member
Yes indeed.
If violence is done in an interesting way to engage the player than it's fun.
But having violence just to "be there" is not fun at all and might make said game boring.
Good point
thomasmahler
Member
I think it just makes sense and has little to do with people thinking that violence is OK and sex isn't.
Here's how I see it as a developer:
Often times violence / gore can be used as 'feedback' for the player. If you hit an enemy and the attack is being registered, it's one thing. If the attack is registered and there's a bit of blood splatter and some sound feedback, things just start to feel meatier, better.
Similarly, it's just fun in Dark Souls to backstab enemies and rewarding the player with a somewhat gruel animation -> This is basically the same satisfactory response people got from Mortal Kombat back then with its fatalities. So there's a definite win purely in terms of gameplay when you use violence. Granted, you can get the same kinda feel if you do something more comical, like a colorFlash or some sparks or stuff like that, but it all boils down to feedback for the player.
Sex on the other hand just plain looks stupid in videogames. 3d polygonal models are being used in games and they're basically puppets. And watching puppets getting it on is just super awkward and weird. There's not a single game out there that managed to not make it feel awkward when two puppets have sex. It just sucks.
If my story has to do with two characters having sex, as a director, I'd depict it in a way that doens't feel silly or awkward, so I probably would SUGGEST that this happened, but not necessarily show it. And honestly, I don't see what the upside is of seeing the characters naked and fucking around from a story perspective. Less is more.
Here's how I see it as a developer:
Often times violence / gore can be used as 'feedback' for the player. If you hit an enemy and the attack is being registered, it's one thing. If the attack is registered and there's a bit of blood splatter and some sound feedback, things just start to feel meatier, better.
Similarly, it's just fun in Dark Souls to backstab enemies and rewarding the player with a somewhat gruel animation -> This is basically the same satisfactory response people got from Mortal Kombat back then with its fatalities. So there's a definite win purely in terms of gameplay when you use violence. Granted, you can get the same kinda feel if you do something more comical, like a colorFlash or some sparks or stuff like that, but it all boils down to feedback for the player.
Sex on the other hand just plain looks stupid in videogames. 3d polygonal models are being used in games and they're basically puppets. And watching puppets getting it on is just super awkward and weird. There's not a single game out there that managed to not make it feel awkward when two puppets have sex. It just sucks.
If my story has to do with two characters having sex, as a director, I'd depict it in a way that doens't feel silly or awkward, so I probably would SUGGEST that this happened, but not necessarily show it. And honestly, I don't see what the upside is of seeing the characters naked and fucking around from a story perspective. Less is more.
Haunted
Member
Absolutely.
There's a reason a certain subgenre of horror is called torture porn (and generally always critically panned). Sex isn't the only thing that sells.
That's why the best sex games embrace the puppetry.
I don't think it necessarily has to be a question of recreating reality, but the mechanics of a combat system are much more involved. Likewise representations of sex don't always have to follow a pattern with an absolutely true to life representation. They just need to find an interesting and satisfying analogue. This analogue is hard to fathom because not many are attempting it.
So what? We can stand kids blowing heads but we can't stand them blowing their things? Everybody is bound to have sex through their lives, but most people will not dismember anybody. I fail to see how tits can be so bad for kids.
Not just games, Colbert had a pretty good bit about nudity (and art) on TV, some ridiculous stuff in there:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkJS0IzZREk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkJS0IzZREk
CadetMahoney
Member
sharp knees and cum look way too watery, preorder cancelled.
Gotdatmoney
Member
Nudity and sex are not the samething.
The main reason why in video games violence can do w/e it wants is because the majority of all games have gameplay systems based off violence as a means to a goal. You aren't going to make a 10 hour game where sex is the means to a goal (or maybe you can). In video games sex and nudity literally serve as male power fantasies. Were you here for the strip clubs in video games thread? Violence is pretty shallow in its portrayal too but in a shooter or an action game if you arent killing things you arent't doing much of anything.
Sapphire Dreams
Member
I did no talk about absolutes. I never said we shouldn't have sex and nudity. It depends on the context of it all.
Violence is easy to implement as a game mechanic, while sex and nudity doesn't have an obvious place or function in most games. It needs to be added to a game and the question then becomes why is it there, if it doesn't serve any purpose or reason?
I think the problem is that games usually don't tell stories (or feature characters) where sex and nudity can be included in a logical or natural way. There are exceptions, but they're not many.
IMO
The reason for the acceptance of violence is really simple imo, governments want people to feel that their violence(war for example) is justified, also in some countries like USA there's the weapons lobby that want to sell weapons. If violence was a bad thing how a government would justify wars? How weapons lobbies would make money?
About sex i dunno, but it's interesting to notice that in some cases our ancestors were way more sexually open than our generation, for example in the antique Rome there were orgies, homo sex etc, Indians wrote the Kamasutra etc.
About sex i dunno, but it's interesting to notice that in some cases our ancestors were way more sexually open than our generation, for example in the antique Rome there were orgies, homo sex etc, Indians wrote the Kamasutra etc.
pancakesandsex
Member
Lol. I'm picking up what you're putting down.
I agree, we need more games where fucking IS the gameplay.
Auto-Reply
Member
I think it's because violence is seen as something that can be rationalised like political decisions in a war scenario, an army fight against another. Some form of warped emotionless cold-violence. The right thing to fight for that preserves our human like qualities that differentiates us from animals.
Sex is different in that regard as it exposes us as instinct driven animals, many people have problems with that and have difficulty explaining it for what it is. Violence is easier to explain out of context.
Damn, I should have become some sort of scientist or some shit like that yo...
Sex is different in that regard as it exposes us as instinct driven animals, many people have problems with that and have difficulty explaining it for what it is. Violence is easier to explain out of context.
Damn, I should have become some sort of scientist or some shit like that yo...
CelticVegas
Banned
Logical and natural way? Like love and passion? And why nudity needs a justification? Like, big revelaton, we are all naked inside our clothes! Shockkk
Coolio McAwesome
Member
This isn't a new thing. Many years ago when Duke Nukem 64 was released, the strip club was predictably removed. It was replaced with a gun store. That seemed incredibly backwards to me.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Yep. The U.S. is fine with violence, but not nudity.
Lord British
Member
Where do you pick up this shite?
Dark_castle
Junior Member
Kinda baffles me as well, not so much amuses. Look, I don't consider myself as a very horny dude, but I like nudity and sex, and the story and characters warrant sex scene (that is done tastefully or intentionally funny like the Iron Bull's in DA:I), I would say go nuts with it. Yes, pun intended.
The annoying, pointless and often tasteless fanservice in the Japanese games though, not a fan.
The annoying, pointless and often tasteless fanservice in the Japanese games though, not a fan.
That's because games have been working or complicating violence for decades. It is very intricate these days. Like, we have commonly-used terms for this: i-frames, hitstun, staggered, etc. There's nothing like that for romance and sex, nothing systemically common enough for us to have recognized terms.
The closest I've seen to this being successful in recent years (that I've played at least) is stuff in the adventure game vein: a scene in Beyond and some stuff in Telltale games (and those doing Telltale-esque games). I know there are games that sort of sidestep the reality of it and hop to "sex as gaminess" like Robert Yang's work, but most of the people who play games aren't aware of him and his games. I'd love for that to change.
In short, I agree? Of course I don't want every game to be reality. It wouldn't be viable escapism then. A little bit of a kick in the ass now and then would be really appreciated, though.
Well, if Solid Snake suddenly decided to go out in the field naked, I would expect some kind of reason for that, ie something other than "Im naked without my clothes!".
Why do I even try?
I guess this is more of a thing in USA, and more and more the UK as it gets a more diverse population with people coming from different cultures.
But it comes down to what is accepted enough to show kids in media. Kids don't have as easy access to guns and a moral reason to kill, compared to sex.
But it comes down to what is accepted enough to show kids in media. Kids don't have as easy access to guns and a moral reason to kill, compared to sex.
Please elaborate.
In my opinion, as long as video games will be considered by many as a brainless form of entertainment this will not change.
A game can make you share feelings, empathoze with this character or this one, etc... Nudity and sex can help.
If you take the ending of Old Boy (original version), this is what a movie can aim at. Triggering feelings, in a good or bad way. Schindler's list with all the naked corpses. I am not criticising other movies, for me a movie is a piece of art, some successful, some really bad at it, but if that is the director's choice (opening scene of Antichrist for me is just really bad and pointless) but just thinking video games could actually step up to movies and could include sex and nudity with a good story telling.
A game can make you share feelings, empathoze with this character or this one, etc... Nudity and sex can help.
If you take the ending of Old Boy (original version), this is what a movie can aim at. Triggering feelings, in a good or bad way. Schindler's list with all the naked corpses. I am not criticising other movies, for me a movie is a piece of art, some successful, some really bad at it, but if that is the director's choice (opening scene of Antichrist for me is just really bad and pointless) but just thinking video games could actually step up to movies and could include sex and nudity with a good story telling.
That was a very interesting post, thanks for sharing that.
I mean, that sounds like complete insanity.
Messofanego
Banned
That reminds me, I need to play her new game, Cibele.That's why the best sex games embrace the puppetry.
No worries - I hope others read it but I doubt they will.
The Victorians are the root cause of (or catalyst for, at least) so much problematic shit today.
I hate to do this but "It seems like an American thing". A good part of them are more scared of tits than a gun. Janet Jackson tit almost shut down the entire nation.
I always thought that the people who had a problem with this were religious Christians, that made sense, and the people who werent religious did not care. Simple right? No.
Its become very apparent that another big group also has a problem with nudity, they can best be described as sex negative, who use different arguments but still argue for the same things puritans did. Their preferred end result is exactly the same as the very religious Christians they typically oppose.
There exists no substantial evidence that either has a negative effect on people, so the entire debate seems moot until further evidence shows something else. Yet what has the biggest effect on youth by far, are single parent homes. And this topic is rarely if ever brought up in any debate, regarding anything. Its shocking.
I always thought that the people who had a problem with this were religious Christians, that made sense, and the people who werent religious did not care. Simple right? No.
Its become very apparent that another big group also has a problem with nudity, they can best be described as sex negative, who use different arguments but still argue for the same things puritans did. Their preferred end result is exactly the same as the very religious Christians they typically oppose.
There exists no substantial evidence that either has a negative effect on people, so the entire debate seems moot until further evidence shows something else. Yet what has the biggest effect on youth by far, are single parent homes. And this topic is rarely if ever brought up in any debate, regarding anything. Its shocking.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Wait what, can people please not misappropriate terms like fascism for such trivial things?
Iriscomeback
Member
nvm
Because violence is far more relevant to systemize into a mechanic then sex is. Violence can be a means to an end, accomplishing many things depending on the context, many games might gate progression behind acts of violence, shoot the guy to get to the next level. Sex, on the other hand, only really accomplishes self gratification, furthering of a relationship or a child if you mess it up, not always elements to progress a story, at least not on in a short amount of time, but even if these are relevant that question becomes if it's even important to show the sex, because in many ways you can just imply sex in many obvious ways and get across, in a second, what you would have wasted a several minute sex scene on. Sex is a system in The Sims, because those 3 things are important elements to the gameplay of that game, but those elements aren't important in your average action game. This is mostly from a gameplay view, anyway and is only really one element, things like age ratings and and social attitude have a large influence here, also
That being said I do think games have a problem with irrelevant violence, and violence is rarely the best means to an end, but games ignore this a lot. That's something else entirely, though.
That being said I do think games have a problem with irrelevant violence, and violence is rarely the best means to an end, but games ignore this a lot. That's something else entirely, though.
CadetMahoney
Member
Well, as for console games and not other media, isn't gaming biggest market in Europ the UK? Which marches lock-step with US values so basically "Europe" fall in line too by sheer dominance so I can see it being a problem (if you see any with it).
It's ankward because there is so little of it. If it was more common then they would know how to create it properly.
Demoskinos
Member
I mean my reaction to that sentiment would be that not every piece of media needs to be made for all people. I think something like DOAX 3 better serves its niche audience by just being what it was designed to be rather than falling in the oft too deadly trap if being designed by committee and failing to serve anyone.
Its so dumb this is an issue. You like your weird art house games like Journey? Awesome. I like my ecchi games like Senran Kagura. Let's like what we like and not care about anything else. (comments not aimed specifically at you BTW)