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It begins? Sony patents that break-apart controller

Durante

Member
Wollan said:
sonar technology? Didn't expect that.
Well it doesn't seem all that sophisticated from reading the patent. It seems to simply synchronize clocks on the controller and the PS3 and then determine the position via the audio signal delay. The combination of a number of controllers and determining their relative positioning with microphones in each of them is more interesting IMO.

Still, as long as the visual 2D pickup works well (and it should with those huge balls and the processing power of PS3) the simple distance measuring method should be enough to get a quite accurate absolute 3D position. And that's novel.
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
stuburns said:
The thing is, this won't work unless they throw this wagglewand and a PSeye in the box with every console. The last thing Sony should even be considering is raising the price of entry into their console.

They wanted the hardcore, now cater to them. It's too little too late. I think it looks cool, and could have been interesting, but no one is going to dedicate serious resources into adapting this tech into a triple A title. It's always going to be tacked on/an afterthought.

I'm thinking...peripheral for PS3 that is stepping stone to PS4?

Or maybe it won't be for PS3 at all.
 

vareon

Member
Isn't "lol, ridiculous" is how people react when they first see the Wiimote?

I don't follow news of this break-apart controller from the beginning, though. But that Fig. 9B DOES look ridiculous.
 

Fuu

Formerly Alaluef (not Aladuf)
2931266563_edd0624c0a_o.gif
 

StuBurns

Banned
gofreak said:
I'm thinking...peripheral for PS3 that is stepping stone to PS4?

Or maybe it won't be for PS3 at all.
That could work, if they just want to test out the design for iteration to perfect it in time for the launch with PS4.

But something like this has to be day one with the launch, and included with the package.

The PSeye is awesome, and they could do some amazing head tracking in games with it, but no devs are willing to throw the cash at something people won't use. And because of the lack of support, there's little reason to buy one.
 
Did anyone ever pick up the In2Games Gametek titles that came out last Christmas.

http://www.in2games.uk.com/

They use microwaves for motion tracking, I always wondered how good they were in comparision to the Wii remote, but the launch titles were so blah.

They are working on new tech for PS3/Xbox 360 which combines the motion sensors with the sonar.
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
Psychotext said:
Take a close look at the thread... not a single person called Sony a copycat. Everyone is too busy ridiculing the controller.

Being defensive before the event is a little over the top.

Well, not everyone.. :p

The case design in the patent is funky, but the underlying tech is interesting, and matches up with prior speculation about an 'ideal' route down wii-mote lane for Sony (i.e. one that maintains traditional controls if desired..which they seem to have covered with those swappable and joinable faceplates, and one that leverages eyetoy, and one that improves on at least some aspects of Nintendo's tech).
 

jgwhiteus

Member
TAJ said:
LMFAO at all of the tards calling Sony copycats.
This article came out before Nintendo revealed the Wiimote.
http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn7890

Well, I wouldn't call them "copycats" (ultrasound is obviously a very different technology from accelerometers) - but in terms of the form factor and motion sensing in general, do you think anyone would be as open to the break-apart form factor if the Wiimote hadn't come out first and proved to be popular? This thread would be filled with a lot more "LOLs!" and "WTF are they thinking?" (though there are still plenty) like the first Wiimote thread was - as is, it's at least understandable why Sony thinks this controller would have appeal. It's not really an issue of who developed the technology or the idea first (I'm sure there were break-apart controller ideas before the Wiimote, as well as IR, motion-sensing, etc.), but Nintendo was first to take the risk with the mass market and the first to establish that it could be viable and popular. If Sony ever takes this to market (and that's not clear), it'll pretty much be in response to the general popularity of the Wiimote.

Sort of the same idea with the Avatars v. Mii's thing - it's not that Nintendo was the first to come up with the idea of using avatars in games, and Avatars are simply a copy...it's that introducing Avatars is clearly a response to the popularity of Miis, and not something that Microsoft just happened to independently decide to release now in a vacuum, etc.
 

herod

Member
jgwhiteus said:
Well, I wouldn't call them "copycats" (ultrasound is obviously a very different technology from accelerometers) - but in terms of the form factor and motion sensing in general, do you think anyone would be as open to the break-apart form factor if the Wiimote hadn't come out first and proved to be popular? This thread would be filled with a lot more "LOLs!" and "WTF are they thinking?" (though there are still plenty) like the first Wiimote thread was - as is, it's at least understandable why Sony thinks this controller would have appeal. It's not really an issue of who developed the technology or the idea first (I'm sure there were break-apart controller ideas before the Wiimote, as well as IR, motion-sensing, etc.), but Nintendo was first to take the risk with the mass market and the first to establish that it could be viable and popular. If Sony ever takes this to market (and that's not clear), it'll pretty much be in response to the general popularity of the Wiimote.

Sort of the same idea with the Avatars v. Mii's thing - it's not that Nintendo was the first to come up with the idea of using avatars in games, and Avatars are simply a copy...it's that introducing Avatars is clearly a response to the popularity of Miis, and not something that Microsoft just happened to independently decide to release now in a vacuum, etc.

nn79te.jpg
 

TAJ

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Psychotext said:
Take a close look at the thread... not a single person called Sony a copycat. Everyone is too busy ridiculing the controller.
OK, only two before me.
plagiarize said:
the things you have to do to work around other companies patents... that thing looks bananas... but if it works, good.
[Nintex] said:
They didn't only steal the Wii Remote but also SEGA's maracas!
And one implied.
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
Has anyone read the patent fully, and if so, could they provide a summary of how it all works?

I've skimmed it and so far I've got:

1) Ultrasonic emitter on front and microphone array used to determine distance from camera, as well as to help in triangulation of position

2) Visual or IR used to determine x/y location, big sphere also has LED emitters to help improve accuracy (and low-light accuracy also, I guess)

3) Ultrasonic emitter on the side of the controller to find distance between controllers in both player's hands, as well as between controllers of all players (if there are multiple players).

4) Accelerometer in the controller for xyz and rotation motion detection


All of these inputs meshed together to improve each other's accuracy, and tell the game where each controller is exactly in absolute terms in 3D space..? With other visual tracking mixed in too if necessary (e.g. body, head)?
 

consoul

Member
1zcecyu.jpg

Figure 10 illustrates how the PS3, utilizing the power of Cell, can track the motion of both the controller and your girlfriend's breasts in 4 dimensional space.
 
gofreak said:
Well, not everyone.. :p

The case design in the patent is funky, but the underlying tech is interesting, and matches up with prior speculation about an 'ideal' route down wii-mote lane for Sony (i.e. one that maintains traditional controls if desired..which they seem to have covered with those swappable and joinable faceplates, and one that leverages eyetoy, and one that improves on at least some aspects of Nintendo's tech).

Well I do agree that It's a interesting way of Sony to deviate from the Wii remote, but personally I'd hate the idea of swappable faceplates because they can be small enough that someone could easily lose and you'd be pretty much screwed if you did. And the durability factor is unknown at this point if they go to this route, and we all know how Sony controllers are known for their durability.:lol

I know that some people criticized Nintendo for having supplemental controllers that attach to the remote via the expansion port but I still think it's brilliant since the possibilities can be endless with that scheme. Since you have Nunchuk, classic controller, guitars and now drums which is neat even though in the long run a tad expensive.

For some reason those faceplates on the break-a-way controller remind me of those overlays that the intellivision had for their controller.
 

herod

Member
consoul said:
1zcecyu.jpg

Figure 10 illustrates how the PS3, utilizing the power of Cell, can track the motion of both the controller and your girlfriend's breasts in 4 dimensional space.

Dead or Alive PS3 port confirmed
 

jgwhiteus

Member
herod said:

So cute!...

Thing is, companies come up with plenty of patents and ideas that never see the light of day, or at least never come to market. The ones that actually do become marketed products are judged to be worth the cost / risk. I think my point (if there is one) is that the Wii's popularity has changed companies' perceptions of the risk / benefit of motion-sensing technology and break-apart controllers, avatars, etc.
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
flamesofchaos said:
I know that some people criticized Nintendo for having supplemental controllers that attach to the remote via the expansion port but I still think it's brilliant since the possibilities can be endless with that scheme. Since you have Nunchuk, classic controller, guitars and now drums which is neat even though in the long run a tad expensive.

For some reason those faceplates on the break-a-way controller remind me of those overlays that the intellivision had for their controller.

True, that flexibility might be too expensive in terms of fiddliness. They could fix the faceplates and just have two distinct types that snap together at that same point.

As a patent it's going to cover as many possibilities as possible..the choices that would be made in a commercial product would select from that range.
 

Cheech

Member
The whole idea of forcing consoles to have some sort of "thing" located in front of the gamer that works in tandem with the controls really screws those of us who game on front projectors. All my game stuff sits 3 feet in BACK of me, with the projector screen about 10 feet in front.

In addition, something like the eyetoy is useless because the only light in the room is coming from the projector. It's like taking pictures in a movie theater, you're not going to get anything except what's on the screen.

My biggest fear this gen is Sony and MS completely buying into the Wii philosophy for their next gen systems and then I'm SOL. I will just have to return to PC gaming.
 

StuBurns

Banned
Cheech said:
The whole idea of forcing consoles to have some sort of "thing" located in front of the gamer that works in tandem with the controls really screws those of us who game on front projectors. All my game stuff sits 3 feet in BACK of me, with the projector screen about 10 feet in front.

In addition, something like the eyetoy is useless because the only light in the room is coming from the projector. It's like taking pictures in a movie theater, you're not going to get anything except what's on the screen.

My biggest fear this gen is Sony and MS completely buying into the Wii philosophy for their next gen systems and then I'm SOL. I will just have to return to PC gaming.
We can't see well in the dark, Mr PSeye can.
The PSeye could head track in the dark, cameras are far more sensitive to dynamic ranges than the human eye is.
 
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