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[The Faceless Master]

IIRC, in the early builds, she really was as light as in the promo image. people complained to Team NInja and they fixed that before the game's release. they still used the lighter version in proms. she's still not as dark as in 4, but neither is Zack... everyone's skin colors got made more realistic or something like that... still would be great if they didn't hit 'em with dat cake soap though.

they also fixed Hitomi's face IIRC because people said she looked ... ehh

 

[K-A-Deman]

I'm questioning if this is something that should be taken as seriously as people are taking it. I don't really know Itagaki or his level of decorum, and maybe it's just my insistent denial that 'professionals' shouldn't bother using lEEt, but the way he's acting make's me either amused or wary that there's a serious angle to this...

 

[silvermember]

To continue this discussion let me remind some of you folks, Hispanic/latina is not a race but ethnicity so you can be a black or white or Asian Hispanic.

Thanks

 

[jerry1594]

Pretty cool she's a black Mexican though. Don't think I've ever seen such a character in video games ever.

 

[cj_iwakura]

I don't know what you know about DoA(I'm pro), but skin color is a big part of it.

Seriously though, it does seem drastic.

 

[sixteen-bit]

they just wanna be like Virtua Fighter

Never forgiving AM2 for this.

 

[vio]

Great minds think alike etc...

 

[Azure J]

This man needs to lean that there are many shades of delicious brown skin. 90% of the females I create in games have brown skin soo many options all amazing!

Can't believe I'd ever see this on GAF of all places.

 

[noqtic]

To continue this discussion let me remind some of you folks, Hispanic/latina is not a race but ethnicity so you can be a black or white or Asian Hispanic.

Thanks

I was going to say the same exact thing. South America and the the Pacific Islands are very diverse.

I just watched Dark Girls not too long ago and have taken up African-American lit in college and I'm starting to notice things like this more in our society.

 

[Wynnebeck]

they just wanna be like Virtua Fighter

Was about to post this. Broke my heart when I downloaded VF5 for PS3 only to see how light they made Vanessa. I still mained her, but man my spirit was broken. I can see where Itagaki is coming from definitely.

 

[cj_iwakura]

Can't believe I'd ever see this on GAF of all places.

This is where I'd expect to see it.

 

[Ferr986]

Dude is fucking crazy. Seems like he can't accept that TN improved vastly the DOA characters.

 

[Dynamite Ringo Matsuri]

they just wanna be like Virtua Fighter

Yep. Sad stuff. It was annoying to see them lighten Lisa up, she looks like completely different character now :l

 

[Raging Spaniard]

LOL at people thinking thats supposed to be a tan

 

[SixMachine]

Yep. Sad stuff. It was annoying to see them lighten Lisa up, she looks like completely different character now :l

But as others have stated, the picture in the OP is a pretty bad picture. Here is a closer example that's been posted in the thread. In game she doesn't look like in the OP, she looks sickly white in there. Though she does look completely different and so do all the girls, because they changed all their faces. The picture on the left is from DOA Xtreme Beach Volleyball which is her first appearance, which was made by Itagaki himself.

Comparing in game images, i really don't see the issue. It looks like almost the same shade of brown, but with more of a shine to it.

 

[abstract alien]

She is not as fair as she appears in that pic but yeah definitely lighter than her DOA4 look. It's worse with Vanessa is VF. I hate when devs do that, dark skin is beautiful damn it!

First thing I thought of was Vanessa as well.

 

[Gestault]

LOL at people thinking thats supposed to be a tan

I feel like people assuming she was "just tan" almost proved Itagaki's point, flat out.

 

[Thorakai]

LOL at people thinking thats supposed to be a tan

Or that it is based on the ganguro style. Don't know how people claim that when its missing the distinctive whitening of the eyes and lips.

 

[ChamplooJones]

I can't comprehend how anyone could think Lisa was tan or based on the ganguro style.

Like, what the fuck?

 

[meppi]

only one of those would be considered hentai given the artist and what she has been featured in. here's a hint:

Spoiler

California Gold

Tried googling that and came up with some, eum, interesting results...

The first being a gay porn series and the second one being a magic mushroom webshop that sells tons of weed strains. lol

 

[nico1982]

Had he choose to make the characters more lifelike rather than plain plastic dolls, it would have been harder for others to change ethnicity just by changing the color of the skin.

 

[cube001]

He's an angry man that what he is.

 

[Minyobi]

The whole Vanessa skin bleaching nonsense in VF5 has been such a sticking point with me that it still hampers my enjoyment of the game.
The more people calling stuff like that out, the better.

 

[ShinMaruku]

People still taking Itagaki seriously on DOA? The man who said "Mash faster"?

 

[gogogow]

She's lighter and/or more red-ish in colour compared to DOA4. They also fucked up her face, esp. her nose.

 

[Extollere]

I don't care what anybody says, brown skin / dark girls are amaaaaaaaaazing!! gimmie

 

[freeofgreed]

He is not wrong and it's actually really great to see a Japanese developer so passionate about race depiction.

White washing is racism.

EDIT: People saying "she just looks tan" need to stop thinking about white/black dichotomies. She could be Pacific Islander. Even East Asian. Or Mexican. The point is she wasn't white and now she is.

Respect for Itagaki just rose a million percent. Fuck those guys for whitewashing.

Yup. Although I definitely think he's just saying this because he's still salty about losing his franchise. He's still right. And SMH to all the people saying she was just tan before or not actually darker. She definitely was and even if she wasn't they still lightened her skin tone which in itself is still a problem.

 

[fader]

She's lighter and/or more red-ish in colour compared to DOA4. They also fucked up her face, esp. her nose.

nose?

NOOOOOOOSEEEEE?

 

[FloweryMarston]

i wish i was a pro too

 

[cj_iwakura]

People still taking Itagaki seriously on DOA? The man who said "Mash faster"?

He also said his top six most hated fighting games were Tekken 1-6.

 

[border]

Dude made like 4 DoA games and the only black character ever included was some goofball/bufoon meant for comic relief. Let's not pretend like Itagaki is some angel of diversity.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

But are you glad it seems a little disingenuous? I do agree that people should be vocal about complaints like Vanessa in VF, but the DOA screenshots really are bad shots and Lisa doesn't look that bad in game. In this thread they had shown better shots and it looks much closer than what he is suggesting. This is a man who has a known axe to grind with his former company. Not calling you out, don't take offense to it, but I think the game is being poorly represented than it really is.

Oh I can understand your point completely, an axe to grind motivates him to exaggerate the issue in this case but it puts a spotlight on a real concern I have as a fan of DOA and from black male's perspective

Lisa is one of my favorites in the game but having seen this type of skin change in many series before (Killer Instinct, VF, MK) yeah I'm glad he is talking about it. Might not be fair to the people he is calling out but it could push them to think about adding a little extra in DOA6 to shutdown these types of vocal accusations.

He has already admitted that Lisa is Latina, I would like to see an African Female representation Latin does not have to mean dark skin so before Lisa loses her tan completely which is possible unless someone like him raises this point to grind an axe

With this maybe I would not have to worry about Lisa's skin in the future and maybe get a little more diversity in DOA6

Zack is my least favorite character in this series so the saying "Be careful what you wish for" applies

 

[Vazra]

*I know its a crappy photoshop work*
If they could make it look closer to the third one I would be okay with it. Lisa's original skin tone was a bit odd to me.

 

[Oreoleo]

LOL at people thinking thats supposed to be a tan

I feel like people assuming she was "just tan" almost proved Itagaki's point, flat out.

I don't see how it's at all unreasonable to think she was just tanned if the picture in the OP is your only frame of reference. Otherwise you wouldn't need to be posting and quoting other pictures to prove your point.

 

[thelurkinghorror]

 

[freeofgreed]

*I know its a crappy photoshop work*
If they could make it look closer to the third one I would be okay with it. Lisa's original skin tone was a bit odd to me.

Odd how? You do know there are actually people with that skin tone right? Though if your only interaction with darker people is through video games I can see why you'd think that.

 

[QuantumZebra]

He is not wrong and it's actually really great to see a Japanese developer so passionate about race depiction.

White washing is racism.

EDIT: People saying "she just looks tan" need to stop thinking about white/black dichotomies. She could be Pacific Islander. Even East Asian. Or Mexican. The point is she wasn't white and now she is.

bingo, and its enough of a change that the creator is fucking pissed about it

 

[Hotsuma]

they just wanna be like Virtua Fighter

Did Sega/AM2 ever say why they drastically changed Vanessa from Serena Williams to Vanessa Williams? I actually liked how brutal she looked in VF4 and that she wasn't your typically designed female fighter. I guess it doesn't matter much these days since Virtua Fighter seems to be done and over with. I would have loved to see a Fighters Megamix 2 though....

About DOA Lisa; Itagaki originally created the character, right? Its his right to complain if he feels that the facial features/skin tone of the character deviate from what he defined her character as originally. Lisa's level of the Michael Jackson treatment is no where near as bad as the Vanessa VF5 switch, but (sadly) we live in a society that has a certain standard in what they see as attractive/cool looking.

 

[KyleCross]

Comparing in game images, i really don't see the issue. It looks like almost the same shade of brown, but with more of a shine to it.

We're done here. Itagaki just bullshitting up something so he has another excuse to bitch about the Dead or Alive games he wasn't involved in because he's butthurt that the series is the best it has ever been with DOA5.

 

[Santerestil]

Japanese designers seem have some... preconceptions about skin color.

To illustrate the point, here is Cia, one of the main villains of Hyrule Warriors:

She is also the one with the most questionable design - and not because she is The Seductress, but because storywise she was corrupted by evil forces, and her aspect before, as a good girl, was:

Oh boy.

 

[ActuallyHulk]

bingo, and its enough of a change that the creator is fucking pissed about it

Given that it's Itagaki I'm not entirely convinced he cares so much about the actual change rather than the fact that he has another reason to blast his former employers publically. He loathes them with every fiber of his being and he's pretty much said that he is a big grudge holder.

 

[Supermanisdead]

He also said his top six most hated fighting games were Tekken 1-6.

Me too.

 

[staticneuron]

I thought her design was based on the Ganguro style.

Except the Character Lisa Hamilton is not japanese. And obviously wasn't wearing caked on makeup in DOAXBV.

they just wanna be like Virtua Fighter

Every time I see this I still get mad.

Pretty cool she's a black Mexican though. Don't think I've ever seen such a character in video games ever.

Except her name is Lisa Hamilton, went to high school with Tina Armstrong and her nationality is listed as American.

Why do people assume she is mexican because of her fighting style? Are Helena, Christie, Brad and Eliot Chinese now? Is Zack Thai?

 

[evilromero]

For some reason, I can't read his comments in anything other than Tommy Wiseau's voice...

Lol same.

 

[freeofgreed]

We're done here. Itagaki just bullshitting up something so he has another excuse to bitch about the Dead or Alive games he wasn't involved in because he's butthurt that the series is the best it has ever been with DOA5.

Done how? Did you just ignore this entire thread? Regardless if he's being disingenuous or not he's still absolutely right.

You really think they didn't lighten her up?

 

[Vazra]

Odd how? You do know there are actually people with that skin tone right? Though if your only interaction with darker people is through video games I can see why you'd think that.

It seems a bit grey-ish brown. That's about it.

 

[lupinko]

Except the Character Lisa Hamilton is not japanese. And obviously wasn't wearing caked on makeup in DOAXBV.




Every time I see this I still get mad.



Except her name is Lisa Hamilton, went to high school with Tina Armstrong and her nationality is listed as American.

Why do people assume she is mexican because of her fighting style? Are Helena, Christie, Brad and Eliot Chinese now? Is Zack Thai?

Pretty sure DOA Brad is Chinese, Team Ninja isn't wong about that.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

I like how every brown character in a Japanese developed game is supposedly based on the ganguro fashion style for some. Or is supposed to be tanned.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

screen cap just now on my PS4

I like Lisa the way she is

let's talk some Devil's Third Itagaki

 

[KyleCross]

Done how? Did you just ignore this entire thread? Regardless if he's being disingenuous or not he's still absolutely right.



You really think they didn't lighten her up?

No, I don't. I put quite a bit of work into 3D art and different lighing and advances in texturing makes a giant difference. The skin and lighting in DOA5 is much higher quality. If you were to apply these techniques to her old model it'd be much closer than you think.