GrayFoxPL
Member
Ed Boon with MK: Deception.
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Itagaki Talks THQ Troubles, Devil's Third, And Next-Gen Consoles
- Thread starter rockman zx
- Start date
Ed Boon with MK: Deception.
Phoenix Fang
Banned
Who has done it better than him? Fighters are still missing features and the stability that DOA Ultimate and DOA 4 has.
Neuromancer
Member
???
GrayFoxPL
Member
Do you know the difference between "I'm the first" and "I'm better"?
Guy is so self obsessed he makes up his own reality.
Isn't it kind of subjective though? How do you define the first game to do it 'right'? MK certainly wasn't the first game to do it.
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
Phoenix Fang
Banned
I understand the difference.
Considering Itagaki showed the game first and announced its online features long before Deception was announced, I'd give him the nod for doing it first and doing it right. Ed Boon just rushed his out to say they released one first.
GrayFoxPL
Member
What's subjective about being the first developer who succeeded to make to make an online 3d fighter?
He wasn't the first and however you want to play it he will always be the second.
Because how do you define 'succeeded'? MK
was not the first 3D fighter with competitive online, or even close to it.Virtua Fighter, I'd assume. But let's add that "the netcode was solid, compared to other fighting games at the time" to that sentence and he's right: DoA (as much as you love/hate it) had the netcode for fighting games (3D, mostly) last gen and every game since is still playing catchup.
Phoenix Fang
Banned
You just sound mad thou. Take a break and go outside or something and take in a breather.
Only in Japan and it was it was really a 2D game.
GrayFoxPL
Member
I sound mad? Around Itagaki believers? Ok, go on.
speaking on Ninja Gaiden Black and 2, i wouldnt characterize any portion as terrible. The camera argument was always overblown and I have yet play a 3rd person perspective game that utelizes a perfect camera. I dont know what to compare to that says these level designs were terrible. Quake 3? The level design of Black catered to the Metroidvania crowed and 2 was NES style. DEad or Alive XX Volleyball may have had a bad story and acting but it did have buttbattle so I dont know what is to compain about.
Phoenix Fang
Banned
LOL I love how Itagaki threads bring out the haters.
The fact is, he's claiming to have done it right first. He didn't say he did it first, and you claimed someone did who was at least eight year late to being first. Maybe MK did it better than DoA, no idea.
The camera is really bad, and people have done it much better, but the reason it's so bad is because it's so close, so it has to move much quicker to cover the same amount of time as a normal character action camera would, and it needs to be that close for the combat to be as effective as it is. So yes, I would say it's terrible, and with very good reason, but that doesn't stop it being an irritant for me. Level design is very subjective yes, actually I prefer the straighter path of 2 significantly, so I'd say that wasn't so bad.
Phoenix Fang
Banned
I really never had a problem with the camera myself minus one or two spots. I always thought the camera was spot on. I agree with you the straighter path of NG2 was more enjoyable than NG1 .
Cerebral Assassin
Member
Never got an off screen incendiary shuriken? I wish I could say the same.
GrayFoxPL
Member
If you have no idea, then why keep insisting that you do?
Ed Boon, also "Succeeded" and was the first. Yeah, I played it. Netcode maybe wasn't dreamy but impressive enough for the time. Was DoaU better? Yes, of course. Still it wont make his statement true however you want to twist and turn definition of "succeeded".
Who did an online 3d fighter 8 year before, again?
didnt King Koopa shoot fireballs off screen back 20 years ago? did Gaf cry then?
How did I insist I do know? I just know MK
wasn't first, by a long way. Here's the quote:That could literally mean the first to make a 3D figther with competitive multiplayer, in which case, he is wrong, as are you with Ed Boon. If he means the first to do it to a high standard, I have no idea if he's correct or not.
Cerebral Assassin
Member
I don't know what's crazier, thinking Gaf existed 20 years ago, or comparing a 2D game to a 3D game.
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
the melee was one of its selling points prior to release
Cerebral Assassin
Member
Any evidence for this? I don't recall that, it was clearly focused on gunplay from the majority of PR released.
It's just one of the options, it's certainly not to end an encounter considering you have other weapons for your disposal, you could stun grenade them, shotgun, LFE gun to knock them down and with all of those weapons, it's enough to keep enemies down before your get out of overheat, and not to mention disc launcher is based on ammos.
GrayFoxPL
Member
You did not know, if you did, you wouldn't ask me in the first place: "Who was?"How did I insist I do know? I just know MK
And you did not even answer who was that 8 years ago before Boon.
I'm sure with Itagaki's ego he just disregarded Boon, but who else he also disregarded in the same aspect?
I loved the camera in NG1. Loved the closeness of it during combat and the camera cuts after certain attacks for a more cinematic look. Didn't have any problems with incendiary shurikens since the game requires you to move and dodge anyway. Most of the time if you just wall jump or move around while blocking you can avoid the offscreen projectiles, and there were only 3-4 ninja enemies onscreen at once.
Also, I find the pulled back camera in Batman AA/C, GoW, DMC, Lord of Shadows boring as shit during combat gameplay.
The camera system turned worse in NG2 though. They made it lay flat on the ground, and the game's increase in enemies and projectile spam made it worse.
Also, I find the pulled back camera in Batman AA/C, GoW, DMC, Lord of Shadows boring as shit during combat gameplay.
The camera system turned worse in NG2 though. They made it lay flat on the ground, and the game's increase in enemies and projectile spam made it worse.
It's true, but it's a one use ability with a pretty healthy cool down, it also leaves you completely exposed to death for a short while, so if you're only fighting one, or a small group of enemies, you could rush in, melee then crowd control your way to getting your energy back, but in a full encounter it's pretty dangerous to run in and open with a melee attack.
You're right, I didn't answer, because this isn't a vocal conversation, if you want to know what I said five minutes ago, you have a mouse wheel, go and look.
I don't know who was first, I just know at the very least Virtual-On for Saturn was first in 1996, and I'm not saying it is the first, but I am saying 1996 was before 2004.
Ugh. Quotes like this are why I cannot stand Itagaki and, to a lesser extent, Kamiya. They're so utterly full of themselves and aloof from the industry, frequently bragging about not playing recent games, etc, that it drives me nuts. Even though a lot of the claims are true, it drives me nuts the way it's phrased.Itagaki said:
GrayFoxPL
Member
Yeah, guess I was just responding to the melee part of your post, didn't really read the other posts prior to yours, but you're right melee does have a cool down and not to mention slows your character down too, so it's one of the things that I thought they could've done better, I just thought it was pretty unique when they combine it with other options
Not only did I just answer you, I did post it earlier:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=35496749&postcount=112
Maybe that mouse wheel really is broke.
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
You're probably right. I looked and can't find anything
Yeah and I remember alot of people being really disappointed in this when the game actually came out. Which is what lead me to think they had played the melee up a bit more in pre-release material since that was an aspect so many were looking forward to in the game.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
The camera in NG1 (vanilla) is literally the worst of any modern 3D action game. I say this while acknowledging that the game has amazing gameplay.
GrayFoxPL
Member
Stretching as hell. Devil's Third might also be a 3d fighter by that concept.
Weak and predictable cover up.
But if you want something a little more traditional, Tech Romancer for Dreamcast, still mechs, but a lot more conventional.
GrayFoxPL
Member
Think of something original. Like Itagaki... Oh, wait.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
Agreed, and its not like it got much better in Black, either.
This is pretty damn embarrassing. You're lucky the mods don't ban based on shamefulness.
Cerebral Assassin
Member
This is nothing, there is a games director who believes he is a peer of Shakespeare, at least Kamiya & Itagaki stick within their own industry.
No. No. No. We want 60 FPS not 30 FPS.
GrayFoxPL
Member
Because otherwise we couldn't see you posting here again? Not sure it's luck.
If you don't wish to see my posts, you may choose to do so. GAF has all the mod-cons. I should warn you though, it won't make MK
have released ten years earlier, it'll just help you forget it didn't.