Tizoc
Member
mULTIPLE accounts on the PS3 are hardly a hassle, I have them and I dl the dlc for specific games accordingly with no issue.
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Iwata addresses region-locking at Nintendo investor Q&A
- Thread starter Cheesemeister
- Start date
mULTIPLE accounts on the PS3 are hardly a hassle, I have them and I dl the dlc for specific games accordingly with no issue.
test_account
XP-39C²
Does the account system has any practical function for the consumer? You wouldnt need an account system to do a system transfer for example.
Thanks for that link. Is that the only instance of it being said? Its really hard (at least from me) to find official quotes/statements and commercials advertising the PS3 being region free when searching on Google. I would imagine that it would be very easy to find if its was a key selling point.
Ivan el Trolazo
Banned
they are afraid of people having the same game on two machines, you could sell your old 3ds with the games installed, change the password and install again on your new unit
The safest way to do it, with a Nintendo and business pov, is to allow it thought eShop digital content only.
Let the most hardcore gamers switch between eShops at will and buy their games in the japanese eShop.
It could be sort of hidden from more casual gamers, and personally I think it can come with a fee (either an annual "Nintendo network gold" or with a 5-10% price up) , I prefer this than nothing.
Let the most hardcore gamers switch between eShops at will and buy their games in the japanese eShop.
It could be sort of hidden from more casual gamers, and personally I think it can come with a fee (either an annual "Nintendo network gold" or with a 5-10% price up) , I prefer this than nothing.
Zeouterlimits
Member
I want to believe!
Again,when people hear account system on a gaming console they don't think of Nintendo's horrible implementation so you are spreading misinformation. Read below.
My definition is not arbitrary, it's what the general population thinks an account system on a gaming console is.
Nintendo has an account system. -> Cool, I'll just log out or log in as needed and I'll have no trouble replacing or selling my system.
WRONG! But hey you can DELETE your account and loose all your purchases. Aren't we just the greatest?
Nintendo has no account system. -> Games are tied to hardware and transferring them will be a pain the ass.
CORRECT.
It is misinformation.
InsaneZero
Member
I actually think that introducing a 3DS update that comes with a whitelist of games that would be playable on any region would probably be the safest route, but that would be rather tedious to maintain.
TheMoon
Member
Well it is a hassle because you tend to provide false user data (address) to access the shop and make a purchase. Then you have to juggle multiple accounts to avoid accidentally losing access to one of them. It's also annoying in certain specific cases where your game's region's store doesn't offer the DLC while another does. Like the Mirror's Edge DLC on PS3. It was (or still is?) free in Europe but I owned a copy from HK and the Hong Kong store version of the DLC wasn't free ever. That definitely was an annoyance. On the other hand, I could use the download code for an exclusive PS3 skin in Dead Space from my HK copy on the US store, which was my main account and it worked flawlessly. Then there was the time where Namco Bandai Europe screwed up big time and made COUNTRY LOCKED DLC for Enslaved: Odyssey to the West and was very very unclear in the product description and very unhelpful from a customer service perspective about resolving it for people who bought a EU copy from one EU country but used a PSN account from another EU country to buy the DLC. It's an inconsistent and messy experience. I like how steam does it where it (at least seemingly) lets you redeem game codes from one region version bought elsewhere and you when you buy DLC in the actual steam store for your country it recognizes the software it's tied to and downloads the matching DLC version for that. That's at least how it worked for Sleepy Dawgs, Metro Last Light, and the upgrade from Fallout NV to the GOTY edition.
Region locked DLC is definitely a problematic thing still that needs ironing out. Of course if you're fairly conservative in your import selection it's less of an issue but if you make full use of a system's inherent region freeness, there are a lot of stumbling blocks.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/5361246.stm
(this was a reporter answering the questions, btw. Not Sony in that interview, but guess where that reporter got the information from)
Backward compatibility info was also bullshit *cough* European most expensive PS3 had shitty backward compatibility *cough*
http://www.ign.com/articles/2006/03/22/gdc-06-region-free-ps3
PS3 was able to region lock the games. They simply didn't use it most of the time.
I remember that for example Uncharted played on a Japanese console censored itself. Which also was a shitty thing to do. They patched that out years after the release.
They stopped doing that after a few years. I think Uncharted 1 was even the same release worldwide. I definitely remember that the Japanese version had all sorts of European languages included.
And then they even started censoring games in whole Europe because of Germany (Last Of Us, etc). Could have simply used the same country specific stuff they used for Uncharted. Let those games censor themselves on PS3s sold in Germany.
Which is actually against ToS. Which means Sony could cancel those accounts anytime they want and the customer can't do anything about it.
TheMoon
Member
But they're not... Why is it so difficult to express this clearly and calmly? It's obvious that you're angry about not being able to log in and out of the system manually whenever you want but that doesn't negate the fact that an account system is in place to which all your purchases are tied across both handheld and home console. The only issue being that in the case of your system being broken or lost, you have to go through customer service to regain access to your account (the annoyance of which nobody is denying).
protomouse
Member
Not only is the Ouya region free, but unlike Nintendo and Sony accounts, Ouya accounts are global and prices are equal (minus VAT, of course). This is how it's done properly, folks.
PlayStation consoles are still effectively region locked for me, because I refuse to jump through the hoops of setting up alternate accounts with fake addresses and buying PSN codes off some third party vendor because Sony won't accept my Swedish credit card or PayPal account.
Several people have already refuted your claims, but here goes:
Nintendo has an account system. There is an account to which my eShop purchases are tied. It's called the NNID. You can use multiple NNIDs on a single console, and a single NNID can be shared across Wii U and 3DS. If I format my Wii U, and again setup the console with my NNID, I can re-download the games I'm entitled to. If there was no account system in place, any trace of my purchases would have been lost at this point. Knowing this, I quite confidently buy digitally from the eShop.
What they are lacking is not an account system, but a decent device management and authorization implementation. No one is denying that. They need to fix it. And region locking too.
Starwolf_UK
Member
This is what people most people think though:
Nintendo has no account system. -> Games are tied to hardware, there is no server side proof of purchase and transferring them is impossible.
Which is a bit different to the reality so yes it is misinformation. Is what they have now the same thing they've had since the Wii days only with a shiny log in button? You bet.
I take it real account system has become the new "Nintendo has no achievements and shitty online" that plauged so many Wii discussions.
Barack Lesnar
Banned
Any other interesting tidbits in the Q&A?
Buying a US 3DS at launch was such a huge mistake.
I was so sick of games constantly being released in Australia much later than in the US (or not at all). It was also cheaper for the console itself, and should have been for games going forward as well. Of course, as soon as I make this decision, games have been releasing in Australia first and there's been some really great local deals I've missed out on because of the region lock.
There are also some games that flat out can't be played with people from other regions. No streetpass or local multiplayer in Fire Emblem or Mario Kart 7. No local co-op missions in Monster Hunter 3: Ultimate. No transferring Villagers to any of my friends in Animal Crossing. Who knows what the hell the justification for this is. It's a fucking handheld and you can't play with people from other countries? What? It's also been a pain in the ass getting eShop credit (can't use Australian credit card) as well as the various codes to unlock things in Pokemon as well as the Smash demo.
Then there's the Nintendo Network ID. I couldn't link my pre-existing 3DS ID when I eventually purchased a Wii U. Which means I have two separate accounts and often miss out on deals related to buying a game on one system and getting discounts on the other. Who knows if they'll accept that I've purchased both versions of Smash Bros. later on when I'm trying to redeem Mewtwo, or the bonus soundtrack.
I was very excited at the idea of getting a New3DS, but I won't be able to do a system transfer to move my games and save data from the old system. I mean, what do they expect people to do if they move overseas?
I was so sick of games constantly being released in Australia much later than in the US (or not at all). It was also cheaper for the console itself, and should have been for games going forward as well. Of course, as soon as I make this decision, games have been releasing in Australia first and there's been some really great local deals I've missed out on because of the region lock.
There are also some games that flat out can't be played with people from other regions. No streetpass or local multiplayer in Fire Emblem or Mario Kart 7. No local co-op missions in Monster Hunter 3: Ultimate. No transferring Villagers to any of my friends in Animal Crossing. Who knows what the hell the justification for this is. It's a fucking handheld and you can't play with people from other countries? What? It's also been a pain in the ass getting eShop credit (can't use Australian credit card) as well as the various codes to unlock things in Pokemon as well as the Smash demo.
Then there's the Nintendo Network ID. I couldn't link my pre-existing 3DS ID when I eventually purchased a Wii U. Which means I have two separate accounts and often miss out on deals related to buying a game on one system and getting discounts on the other. Who knows if they'll accept that I've purchased both versions of Smash Bros. later on when I'm trying to redeem Mewtwo, or the bonus soundtrack.
I was very excited at the idea of getting a New3DS, but I won't be able to do a system transfer to move my games and save data from the old system. I mean, what do they expect people to do if they move overseas?
Please dear God, make this happen!
I already have Dragon Quest 7 and Sayonara Umiharakawase and EX Troopers is on it's way as we speak.
Very close to importing a new 3DS as well, but I would naturally prefer to buy a single EU system which comes with warranty.
Really would love to play Fatal Frame on Wii U as well as be able to play my import Wii games without needing my modded Wii, which in fact the sole reason for modding was to be able to play games that were never released here. ExciteBots and Reginleiv.
I already have Dragon Quest 7 and Sayonara Umiharakawase and EX Troopers is on it's way as we speak.
Very close to importing a new 3DS as well, but I would naturally prefer to buy a single EU system which comes with warranty.
Really would love to play Fatal Frame on Wii U as well as be able to play my import Wii games without needing my modded Wii, which in fact the sole reason for modding was to be able to play games that were never released here. ExciteBots and Reginleiv.
In practice they are.
Look, it's like saying you have a car and then taking out a toy out of your pocket. Sure, technically you'd be correct but that would be misleading.
Well in Europe they don't want to transfer your purchases and will only do so after extensive arguing and them feeling like making an EXCEPTION, so that assumption can be pretty accurate depending on where you live.
Unless Nintendo fixes it, I'll retain my position that saying Nintendo has no account system is more accurate than saying they do.
boiled goose
good with gravy
Starwolf_UK
Member
Those are [account] management issues and poor customer service which are not the same thing as nothing at all.
Your position of saying "no account system" will keep being shot down as it unhelpful and as misleading as saying it already has a proper account system. There is nothing wrong with taking the extra 10 seconds to saying they have an account system but the user end management leaves a lot to be desired as otherwise it just reeks of moving the goalposts.
As for the car analogy. I think the analogy is more having to go back to the dealer whenever you need to do anything.
bobawesome
Member
I won't buy another Nintendo product until they do away with it.
SwiftDeath
Member
Progress I guess? Still seems like they're saying other publishers are pressuring Nintendo to keep them region-locked whereas that sounds unlikely to be the case to me.
test_account
XP-39C²
The answer in the first link is actually a correct statement:
" Q: Will the Wii and PS3 be region-free? Or will the games publisher be able to lock the game down to a specific region?
Alan, Fareham
A: The PS3 will have region free games, allowing European gamers for example to play titles from Japan or the US."
It says that the PS3 will have region free games, not that the PS3 itself is region free. It doesnt give any answer to if publisher could region lock their game though, but no answer is at least not misinformation. The backward compability stuff also isnt specific to the european PS3. That might have changed after that interview were made to cut costs, who knows.
But yeah, the PS3 is region locked indeed, so if anyone said that, then its not correct. I guess that is why its so hard to find (at least from my experience) official quotes/statements on it after the PS3 was released. But in practical term, it doesnt really matter that much concidering how many PS3 games that actually are region free. The PS3 is pretty much region free in practical terms.
Its possible, i never checked for it since i prefer english (besides Resistance 2, i just checked there to try it out). I know that Ratchet & Clank: All For One from late 2011 had multiply languages depending on which language the PS3 was set to at least.
It is what it is. They'll either implement it sometime down the line or they won't. Nintendo's the oldest player in the industry. They've seen competition come and go while making moves to extend their longevity. If they feel region locking threatens that longevity they will take the appropriate steps.
Orniletter
Banned
He would give exactly the same answer. Beeing more rude wouldn´t accomplish anything.
test_account
XP-39C²
You dont have to be rude to ask a more direct question though. But yeah, the answer would probably be much of the same as you say, i agree.
Augemitbutter
Member
they're the worst. still can't forgive them for the 3DS region lock. i just buy less games. 3DS is used to play DS games most of the time. lots of good deals around to get worldwide. if you want core gamers to buy more games, be more friendly to us in the future. cough home systems.
i don't expect them to terminate current locks. that's way too complicated.
i don't expect them to terminate current locks. that's way too complicated.
Dr_LucienSanchez
Banned
While it's better than what they've said in the past, Iwata still makes it seem like it's such a giant hurdle to remove region-locking. Somewhat excusable last gen when Microsoft had it's weird region locking system, but now it really ought to be remedied.
LegendofLex
Member
I'm sure this is the case. They're also probably scared of people's account information being compromised. Preventing anyone from doing anything drastic with their accounts without their home hardware and without going through customer service provides a better layer of security than the account info alone can.
The current problem with 3DS being region free (and i'm suspecting is the same with WiiU) is that game updates and patches are handled through eShop. I suspect it's to maintain some control with software updates regarding piracy, exploits, etc. I don't know if jp Vita games require the same because I've never imported a Vita game, but I do know that accessing Japanese PSN from a Vita is a pain in the ass if you already have an account set up in another region, and that's before paying the premium for PSN cards. Sony's problem with region-locking will become evident, and hopefully solved, soon enough with everything rushing towards a digital, and if they get their way, streaming, market.
To really get around region-locking in modern times, companies would have to do the same as someone mentioned Ouya had done: every game in the store, the same price for every customer. Of course this is another licensing and tax problem.
I'm really curious how this will work out. I can't recall 3DS games blocking me until i updated my firmware (I always keep it updated anyway), but I know PSP and Wii were constantly doing so. If you put a Jp game in a US 3DS and the game has some kind of mandatory update, how will it connect to the jp eShop? Will the game even know it has a mandatory update? I've only played a handful of Japanese 3DS games, but most of them have some kind of update patch right away. Day 1 updates are really common now, and again, i don't know: will the game trigger the update immediately or will you be able to at least play it without updating?
To really get around region-locking in modern times, companies would have to do the same as someone mentioned Ouya had done: every game in the store, the same price for every customer. Of course this is another licensing and tax problem.
Brian★ said:
I'm really curious how this will work out. I can't recall 3DS games blocking me until i updated my firmware (I always keep it updated anyway), but I know PSP and Wii were constantly doing so. If you put a Jp game in a US 3DS and the game has some kind of mandatory update, how will it connect to the jp eShop? Will the game even know it has a mandatory update? I've only played a handful of Japanese 3DS games, but most of them have some kind of update patch right away. Day 1 updates are really common now, and again, i don't know: will the game trigger the update immediately or will you be able to at least play it without updating?
IdreamofHIME
Member
They sold 250million handheld consoles that were region free before making the 3DS. He knew exactly what was going on and how it would effect their customers.
Oh dont tell me... Finding a non pirated copy of xenoblade here (brazil) is impossible
Im am guessing it's due to the refresh rates of the Televisions, since the portable ones don't need a TV screen, and that the only big difference.
Hours Left
Member
Okay, now let's go with that thought Iwata. Let's not hem and haw forever.
Just do it. O_O
Just do it. O_O
entremet
Member
Nintendo needs to understand that importers are very niche. It's not going to threaten territories by removing the region lock.
Honestly, I'm in North America and I get most of the games I want. My only issue is the cool 3DS colors that are Japan only. I'd love to import one, but they're not compatible with my library.
Honestly, I'm in North America and I get most of the games I want. My only issue is the cool 3DS colors that are Japan only. I'd love to import one, but they're not compatible with my library.
BodiesWithoutOrgans
Member
Someday I will wake up to the magic news that nintendo is region free
Those answers weren't given by Sony, but by a reporter.
Even if every single PS3 game was region free, noone could still say that PS3 itself is "region free". First of all, there are region locked BluRays. Then there are PS1+PS2 games, which are still region locked as well and there is also all sorts of region locked DLC.
But it wasn't said that only "some (release) PS3s would have 99% backward compatibility" either.
Just like the region locked games. And OtherOS. And all the other changes.
and btw. again - that wasn't an interview with Sony. The answers were given by a reporter. Or do you really think that they asked Sony about the region locked state of PS3 and Wii?
That's not correct. You must have missed my 2nd link. I didn't put much work into searching around, because we already know that Sony can not be trusted and removes features, whenever they like (see region free and see OtherOS).
http://www.ign.com/articles/2006/03/22/gdc-06-region-free-ps3
I would say that this should probably count as "came directly from Sony". Sure, it's IGN. But that article got published and Sony didn't correct them. Shouldn't they have contacted IGN and told them that PS3 is not really region free and will just have some region free games instead?
And Nintendo has an actual account system in pratical terms then. I mean 2 region locked PS3 games, that's nothing right? Only matters in case you want to play those. Persona 4 Arena, who wanted to play that? Noone. That's just some weird Japanese game, that noone in the west wanted to play.
And that region locked DLC, that's also nothing right? You need to jump through hoops and research a lot and in case you get the wrong data, you will have just wasted money, because Sony won't refund any purchases on PSN, but who cares about that. That's just a minor inconvenience and it's also the fault of the consumer of course. The consumer should have researched better. Sure, Sony doesn't give out proper region lock information for every single piece of DLC, but who cares, right?
And those region locked PSN demos, not a problem. Players just have to wait.
So let's look at all those unimportant issues. Yeah, PS3 is totally region free in pratical terms.
It's not just possible. It's a fact.
- Uncharted 2+3 is English only in UK.
- Last Of Us has English, Russian and Polish audio on the disc, nothing else
- I just checked on ogdb for Ratchet&Clank: All For One - even this one is confirmed to NOT have German audio on it
- Ratchet&Clank: Crack In Time - English only in UK
- Ratchet&Clank: Tools Of Destruction (2007) - was multilingual
- God Of War Ascension - English only in UK
- God Of War 3 - also English only
(in theory some of those games could have some non multi-5 language on it - see Last Of Us and Russian audio, it's quite difficult to get 100% accurate data, because Sony doesn't release that as well. Because #4theplayers. Consumers have to crowd-source that information by themselves. But all of those except the early ones - ToD for example - don't offer German or French or Spanish and such, which is nothing else but effectively forcing consumers to buy games even from certain COUNTRIES, not just regions, which is actually worse than just region locking)
NekoFever
Member
Nor why these problems only started applying to Nintendo's handhelds in 2008. Why weren't they problems for the previous 19 years of Nintendo portables?
The PAL/NTSC issue probably had something to do with it. Slightly different hardware in PAL and NTSC machines plus no guaranteed compatibility between TVs and games from other regions made it easier just to lock it all out. I mean it was trivial to play Japanese games on a US machine (SNES through GameCube at least) because the hardware was identical save for a minor physical lockout, whereas playing NTSC games on PAL machines was more complicated.
Boogalogist
Member
What horse shit. Other consoles have been region free since last gen.
Sammy Samusu
Member
4DS region free would be a dream.
Smiles and Cries
Member
just unlock the hardware Nintendo you are the only one still stuck in this mess
toddhunter
Member
Pretty much.
"You region lock and none of your competitors region lock or have done so for almost a decade.... and if it is a historical thing, past handhelds like the NDS were not region locked. So whats up with that?"
But I'll take this answer as a positive sign.