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Iwata: I misread the market, the company needs to keep track of foreign trends better
- Thread starter hongcha
- Start date
3D Pokémon exists. Putting it on a home console has no benefits but removes the portable aspect that makes it popular
I was talking about the 18-35 audience playing games like CoD.
ChimpBottle
Member
Of course! We should've known that interest for the American 18-35 demographic had shifted over to Tingle's Rupee-Land
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
It will get a lot of benefits too, sacrifice
What benefits? Better graphics? That's about it.
sakipon
Member
Iwata, read this: region free is a trend in the West.
...hey, it doesn't hurt to try. If Nintendo ends up making notable changes, they might as well throw region free on top of that. Thinking 'who cares at this point, let's give them everything'. Just like Microsoft did for the renewed Xbox One plans not too long ago.
...hey, it doesn't hurt to try. If Nintendo ends up making notable changes, they might as well throw region free on top of that. Thinking 'who cares at this point, let's give them everything'. Just like Microsoft did for the renewed Xbox One plans not too long ago.
Regardless of whether you personally like it, presentation is kinda important to a lot of western gamers.
Phoenician_Viking
Banned
Nintendo was never this desperate and losing money. Maybe desperation will finally remove them out of their bubble. But until they build European and American dev studios, and give NOE and NOA autonomy, these words are meaningless.
To the detriment of one of the core features that make the game what it is?
ZombiePlatypus
Member
Wow. Let's not.
God I seriously hope Nintendo doesn't get battered to the point where they're reduced to this.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
Im not talking about pokemon in its traditional sense of RGY/GS/RS..etc.. A new style to play pokemon on home consoles that benefits it. Its not impossible it doesnt have to be exactly the regular pokemon rpg style.
Are you really trying to say a console pokemon game would not benefit more then a handheld? Or at least as much?
So can we expect the next Mario games to be piece meal microtransaction garbage? I'm not sure i catch what trends he is talking about. If it means putting out competitive hardware with launch titles people want to actually play then yes. Bring it. He probably doesn't mean that though.
that was a stupid comment, wii u is hardly garbage
I don't think the world will end because a single 3D Pokemon game is on a console and not portable. I think that underestimates the appeal of the core gameplay and disregards the fact that online play can make up for the deficit.
It's not like portable entries stop existing either. I don't think 3D console Pokemon would save a system, but the fact that they've never capitalized on one feels like a missed opportunity for a lot of gamers.
Something like Brain Age definitely belongs on mobile. The 3DS version of the game sold like 10 copies worldwide. No one wants that game for $40.
I posted this in an old thread:
WarioWare Inc. MegaMicrotransaction$
Cost = Free
Wario games = Free
Jimmy games = 99 cents
Dribble and Spitz games = 99 cents
Mona games = 99 cents
9-Volt games = 99 cents
Orbulon games = 99 cents
Dr. Crygor games = 99 cents
Kat and Ana games = 99 cents
etc.
I don't think they should just dump their old ROMs onto iPhones (especially not GBA games, Jesus), but there is room for some franchises that fit into the whole microtransactions system, like WarioWare. I can't see people spending $40 for a WarioWare game in this day and age.
Alternatively, they can throw small minigames on the app store. Remember the minigames from Mario 64 DS?
how about the Pikachu surfing game from Pokemon Yellow?
Little shit like that would be fine, I think. Just to get the characters/franchises out there.
As for FULL old games, if ANYTHING, it should be stuff like Donkey Kong (arcade) or Mario Bros. (arcade). I don't think it's wise to just throw NES games and other games from Virtual Console onto the app store... you wanna tease the consumer with these small games. If they want the real shit, pick up a 3DS/Wii U.
It's Nintendo's Japanese centric stance. First person shooters don't resonate with Japanese audiences so Nintendo didn't make any more. Nintendo tries to score internationally with games that are made for the Japanese market. That's a recipe for disaster. Sony read the trends correctly, saw how western tastes were changing, saw how the average of gamers was changing, saw the importance of online gaming so they made huge changes in the sort of games their studios were producing. That's why Insomniac went from Ratchet & Clank to Resistance, Naughty Dog went from Jak & Daxter to Uncharted. Nintendo decided they wouldn't be able to keep up the tech race and double downed on games for all ages.
First they lost the market for 18-35 year old core gamers (and with that third party support), now they've lost their core market because consoles and hand holds aren't popular with casuals.
ArchedThunder
Banned
I tried to explain this to him months ago, don't bother.
I am, yes.
The whole reason Pokémon is popular and took off is the taking of it out with you to battle and trade. This aspect is still huge to the younger crowd, especially in Japan. For the older players who don't do that, the games have the online features, too.
If they put it on the home console, it'd cut the portable aspect and have no tangible benefits aside from presentation.
That's kinda what kinda expecting them to do if not just sell the entire game for about ~$3-5
ZombiePlatypus
Member
Pretty much where I'm at too. Guess we'll see what shape they'll be in when they come out from the other side of this.
I don't think people get that he is not saying that they should go into traditional consoles...
IMO those statements from him for Nintendo traditional fanbase could mean death sentence.
I fully expect Nintendo tablet in future or phone or partnership with phone companies...
Putting Pokemon games on mobile would earn probably more money for them than all version earlier combined.
Pokemons don't need good controls nor specific hardware. Whole point earlier of pokemons were to get kids to trade with each other. Now almost every kid has mobile phone and they sure as hell wouldn't mind to play pokemons on those phones.
IMO those statements from him for Nintendo traditional fanbase could mean death sentence.
I fully expect Nintendo tablet in future or phone or partnership with phone companies...
Putting Pokemon games on mobile would earn probably more money for them than all version earlier combined.
Pokemons don't need good controls nor specific hardware. Whole point earlier of pokemons were to get kids to trade with each other. Now almost every kid has mobile phone and they sure as hell wouldn't mind to play pokemons on those phones.
Nintendo demographic: everyone who is happy
Appealing to everyone happy: not always GAF
Wii U has an invisible market and a faddy name
These are some options:
1) Mainstream hit. Wii Sports again. Not iterative but new and good luck finding it.
2) Get desperate and cash in the cashables (i.e. make it a Nintendo Player) - introduce a different system for this
3) Destroy the price and make the tablet a peripheral (barrier of entry with PS3/360 was no longer an issue and the WiiU's value sunk because of this).
4) Get balls out aggressive and make some F2P games like DQX free with the system (this should've happened in 2013 anyway).
For such a brilliantly creative company they sure do struggle...
Imagine if Nintendo had launched with Killzone 4/A Poor Man's Spyborgs/Resogun quality and rode the internet hype train at launch (on Wii U hardware). I mean the games would probably at least run at 60 FPS but they'd be less fancy and we'd still be stuck with bullshit games to defend.
Give the XB1 credit for its launch lineup. Best of the three although ZombiU is the best new-gen launch game.
Appealing to everyone happy: not always GAF
Wii U has an invisible market and a faddy name
These are some options:
1) Mainstream hit. Wii Sports again. Not iterative but new and good luck finding it.
2) Get desperate and cash in the cashables (i.e. make it a Nintendo Player) - introduce a different system for this
3) Destroy the price and make the tablet a peripheral (barrier of entry with PS3/360 was no longer an issue and the WiiU's value sunk because of this).
4) Get balls out aggressive and make some F2P games like DQX free with the system (this should've happened in 2013 anyway).
For such a brilliantly creative company they sure do struggle...
Imagine if Nintendo had launched with Killzone 4/A Poor Man's Spyborgs/Resogun quality and rode the internet hype train at launch (on Wii U hardware). I mean the games would probably at least run at 60 FPS but they'd be less fancy and we'd still be stuck with bullshit games to defend.
Give the XB1 credit for its launch lineup. Best of the three although ZombiU is the best new-gen launch game.
Spieler Eins
Member
Well, yeah. In reality, they should have long before already expanded and prepare ambitious, fresh traditional titles for their next home console alongside party shit for the gamepad that also feels new. Not to mention take more profound actions in regards to 3rd parties, they were fucking market leader how hard can it be to get some support.
But they did none of this and within Nintendo's ,,glorious'' panic mode they've also wasted all their manpower on the 3DS and had nothing left for the WiiU. But even when they were clearly cornered, they did the dumbest thing and phoned in nothing but ,,Wii Greatest Hits'' (More like, Wii's Worst) on an overpriced machine instead of at least trying to find a new hook for that group (like NFC, Skylanders Nintendo equivalent?) until they are able to offer more fullfledged HD experiences. And all that, after they've already seen how Nintendogs, Brain Training and all that jazz completely lost steam on the 3DS.
There's so much wrong here, the only solution is to grab Iwata by his antenna and throw him out of Kyoto. Same for all of his underlings. Otherwise, the next machine will face the same problems.
Or, in the world of more obvious answers and less crazy thinking, it might mean that they'll try to invest in new IPs (say, maybe we'll start getting games like Goldeneye & Perfect Dark from Nintendo again) instead of thinking that yet another Mario-themed game or some irrelevant franchises like Kirby will help them get their momentum back.
I honestly don't see a console Pokemon game doing too well.
Myself and a few others speculated this when he was appointed to that position. The guy he ousted got a cushy job at NCL doing the one thing he might have been good at. But I/we speculated that anything the guy was told about market trends or consumer requests in North America wasn't being passed to NCL because... well, who knows why. And now Iwata has a product at market that he can't sell because he wasn't being given any guidance on what was going on, potentially because the prior CEO thought he could determine what was and wasn't relevant data and leaving so much unheard.
And now? I'm sure Iwata is looking at the data points he gets as NoA CEO and is going "where the hell has all this been?!"
They can't. You either buy a company that bleeds talent or you make a studio and end up recruiting people who would rather make the kinds of games they do already. After all, what western developer would risk their career making a game for the western audience when they're thinking that the mythical Nintendo audience will never buy it anyways?
Armchair analysts say a lot of things. A LOT of things. I mean, those analysts have been predicting Nintendo would be out of business 15 years ago, they just have live ammunition to shoot instead of blanks, even if they'll never hit their desired target anyways.
SolidSnakex
Member
Did you hate the N64 era? Because Nintendo in that period was doing all of that. On the sports side they created games like Wave Race, 1080, and Mario Tennis while on the FPS side they made games like Goldeneye and Perfect Dark. And they were still able to make Smash Bros, Mario 64, two Zelda's, and Star Fox. The amount of variety that they had on that console was impressive, and it really isn't something that they've managed to repeat since then.
Breakfast at Noon
Member
that title reads "reggies fault he did not tell me anything"
Neff
Member
Lol, the fact that he's actually aware of this is immensely encouraging, because I would have sworn that he wasn't. Time to let NoA do its own thing, no doubt about it.
Grey, bald.
Grey, bald.
This view is so myopic, though, to the point of being self-defeating logic.
Yes, there are risks associated with buying out or creating new western developers.
That doesn't mean you don't try, especially as the world's biggest gaming market hops onboard western-oriented titles.
Selling the franchises to console-only buyers. Widening the franchise base is a bad thing now?
You mean Kimishima, the pencil-pushing CEO he replaced at NoA.
SomethingInTheSea
Member
Happened to Retro. Bought, talent left, replacements openly admit they would rather make Donkey Kong than an FPS.
It's not like I pulled this concept from nothing. They did try, and that's what happened.
Western development talent doesn't want to align themselves with Nintendo unless it's to make content that pairs well with the kinds of games Nintendo is best known for.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
This is absolutely correct and im serious.
Nintendo needs to create a new western development studio to start to make new sports games. Mario soccer, Mario football, and real legit sports games like NBA Courtside. Dammit
Networking, a comprehensive ecosystem, achievements.
Actually they were better about this sort of thing back in the 1990s when they had the likes of Rare and NOA was allowed to call the shots on projects.
I understand but that's just a reality that Nintendo is going to have to deal with. Just because you get burned sometimes doesn't mean you give up entirely in trying to shore up your genre gaps. Retro obviously survived.
In terms of business model, I think Iwata was hinting more at stuff like F2P, lower priced games, gaming subscription services (like PS+, PS Now), integration with tablets and phones, etc. Also this:
The very predicament Nintendo finds itself is as a result of an inbuilt resistance to follow contempary (western) market trends. It's what makes Nintendo so uniquely identifiable.
When Japanese trends lead the industry or alternatively could solely sustain success - this was never a problem, but the relevance of Japan has now faded behind the needs of NA and the wider world. Japanese trends no longer define so much of what is played globally
How Nintendo is able to transition to a new identity without losing it's unique character is the biggest challenge they have faced in quite some time. In times of crisis they could merely dig deeper into the well...It's the Nintendo way.
True change is difficult. For Nintendo it will be doubly so. Their identity is the core of who they are.
When Japanese trends lead the industry or alternatively could solely sustain success - this was never a problem, but the relevance of Japan has now faded behind the needs of NA and the wider world. Japanese trends no longer define so much of what is played globally
How Nintendo is able to transition to a new identity without losing it's unique character is the biggest challenge they have faced in quite some time. In times of crisis they could merely dig deeper into the well...It's the Nintendo way.
True change is difficult. For Nintendo it will be doubly so. Their identity is the core of who they are.
ZombiePlatypus
Member
I skipped the N64. (I was all about the Playstation cause that's where the RPGs were.)
You're right though, it (at least seemed to) have a decent balance of games. With the way the market's fragmented though, and WiiU's blowback, I fear that they'll overcompensate and retreat full-force into Golden-eye, Perfect Dark, Sports, western-games territory with microtransactions and whatnot.
I'm holding out hope that they'll approach this the way Nintendo has approached difficulties in the past and surprise everyone with something great, as opposed to just following the crowd that's been beating a dead horse.