Barkley's Justice
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Iwata: I misread the market, the company needs to keep track of foreign trends better
- Thread starter hongcha
- Start date
Hypereides
Member
About time. He's put a blind eye to the Wii Us performance for far too long.
They obviously need to expand in the west but they would be better off getting established ips in those genres over relying on their own.
Yeah, survived to make Donkey Kong.
And me personally? I'm fine with that. But when people are talking about strengthening their Western portfolio, more DK isn't what they're talking about. They're talking about an FPS or a violent sandbox game. And Next Level isn't doing that. Monster isn't doing that. NST isn't doing that. Kuju isn't doing that.
... do you see where I'm going with this?
Trent Strong
Banned
Foreigners aren't into pedo RPGs as much as Japan, brah.
gamerforever
Banned
This is pretty exciting as it is a big admission by nintendo that things need to change.
Not sure i would like them ditching hardware as it may mean they decline even further.
I would prefer they use their funds (and they must have a lot) to develop a true next gen console and a forward thinking handheld device.
In the age of mobile devices they have actually done brilliantly with the 3DS, but as soon as mobiles get decent handheld controls they will face a huge problem and i cannot see them succeeding with just another dual screen handheld machine.
One thing is for sure - we need nintendo to be there and succeed as they truely are one of the greats of gaming. Seeing them go the way of sega would be very disheartening as a gamer.
Not sure i would like them ditching hardware as it may mean they decline even further.
I would prefer they use their funds (and they must have a lot) to develop a true next gen console and a forward thinking handheld device.
In the age of mobile devices they have actually done brilliantly with the 3DS, but as soon as mobiles get decent handheld controls they will face a huge problem and i cannot see them succeeding with just another dual screen handheld machine.
One thing is for sure - we need nintendo to be there and succeed as they truely are one of the greats of gaming. Seeing them go the way of sega would be very disheartening as a gamer.
Phoenician_Viking
Banned
I don´t believe for a second that Retro made DK by choice, even though PR said that.
CoffeeJanitor
Member
Dear Iwata,
Just wanted to let you know that...You've screwed my favorite gaming company by making moronic decisions for years. It's obvious you're only owning up to all of your mistakes to look like you've learned your lesson. Too bad a metric ton of us have watched your tenure as CEO and have seen you own up to the same stupid mistakes over and over and over but always promise to make changes but never actually make any changes until you've run out of time and the cycle repeats itself and we're back to square one.
A better leader would have taken advantage of the stranglehold that the Wii had on the market to expand and grow, covering decade long weaknesses while making Nintendo's development capabilities even stronger. A better leader would have seen that network functionality would be crucial in the future. A better leader would be able to see future trends that will impact the market before it is too late. You don't seem to fit that bill. To be fair, you have been fantastic at sitting on your ass, doing nothing until it's too late. And sometimes just sitting on your ass and doing nothing. So please leave. Don't let the door hit you on your way out.
Please Understand,
Coffee
Just wanted to let you know that...You've screwed my favorite gaming company by making moronic decisions for years. It's obvious you're only owning up to all of your mistakes to look like you've learned your lesson. Too bad a metric ton of us have watched your tenure as CEO and have seen you own up to the same stupid mistakes over and over and over but always promise to make changes but never actually make any changes until you've run out of time and the cycle repeats itself and we're back to square one.
A better leader would have taken advantage of the stranglehold that the Wii had on the market to expand and grow, covering decade long weaknesses while making Nintendo's development capabilities even stronger. A better leader would have seen that network functionality would be crucial in the future. A better leader would be able to see future trends that will impact the market before it is too late. You don't seem to fit that bill. To be fair, you have been fantastic at sitting on your ass, doing nothing until it's too late. And sometimes just sitting on your ass and doing nothing. So please leave. Don't let the door hit you on your way out.
Please Understand,
Coffee
Did they all leave because they were bored of being a Metroid machine? I have no idea but maybe giving them some more Western oriented projects might have helped keep staff and broaden Nintendo's portfolio.
I'm not so convinced that Retro wanted to make Donkey Kong. If you look at Nintendo's Wii U playbook they've been iterating on all their Wii hits, rather predictably thinking that they'd be as successful as before (NSMBU, WiiFit U, Wii Sports Club, Wii Play U). I know that the PR says one thing, but it looks like a top down decision to me.
SpecialAgentZ
Member
Isn't the staff from Rare/Free Radical now part of Crytek?
CadetMahoney
Member
The Cartographer
Member
Iwata is going to beat someone one of this days.
SolidSnakex
Member
In the case of Sega, they finally figured things out but it was too late because they no longer had enough money to keep going. The Dreamcast was a very forward thinking console. But it was too late for them. They'd burned bridges with gamers due to the 32X, Sega CD, and Saturn. They burned bridges with retailers with the Saturn. And they were at a point where they didn't have the money to keep it going. But the console itself and its library showed that Sega had finally figured it out.
Neff
Member
They don't need to lose their character, or be compromised in doing what they do well. They simply need to accommodate Western requirements ie sports/open world/shooters, while continuing to do the Japanese Mario/Zelda/Metroid/Pokémon thing in tandem.
They've said before that they don't chase the competition because it doesn't interest them, which is understandable because it's boring. But boring sells, and hopefully this is now apparent to them.
You'd think it, but then we've been thinking it for twenty years and it hasn't happened yet.
Mr. Smiley
Member
Go deeper.
Online multiplayer.
Social Aspects w/o merging into Gameplay
Western High-Fantasy
Action-RPGs
Big Budget Presentations (scripted events, motion capture by real actors, graphicsgraphicsgraphics)
Free-to-Play
Blending Single and Multiplayer
Emotional storylines
Achievements
So Nintendo has forced every Western development team AND partner to make Nintendo-like software since halfway through the GameCube era?
Sorry, not buying this idea that Retro was hamstrung into making DKC. Not for one second. The history of their Western partnerships and in house talent speaks for itself.
ZombiePlatypus
Member
Yeah it's really a shame. Dreamcast was an amazing console. It was ahead of it's time, and its library was brimming with creative and imaginative games. It just suffered the consequences of its predecessors' mistakes.
I'm not so sure it's a really similar situation with Nintendo here. There's some ill will towards them from some gamers and most 3rd parties, but, overall, I don't get the impression that it's as severe as it all was towards Sega around that time.
And most of them are kind of in a tragic state now. Nintendo needs to carve its own path outta the woods here.
Neff
Member
And it bit them royally in the ass. Last gen was a bloodbath of near-unrecognisable and unwisely outsourced beloved Japanese franchises. The best course for Nintendo is to repair bridges/form new alliances with Western developers for games they want to make, rather than make the same unfortunate attempts to hammer Japanese square pegs into Western round holes.
SporeCrawler
Member
Wait a second...
That talent that left made a horrible vita game and some ports. The guys that stayed made dkcr which was a multimillionseller and critics gave it high scores... Just saying..
Wisely said. Nintendo should definately not go the way of capcom
ZombiePlatypus
Member
It was all so forced and contrived and just an awful identity-crisis. I know Nintendo likes to act like it's in a bubble but I hope they at least paid attention to what happened to these other Japanese companies and won't repeat the same mistake themselves.
Endless Ocean is pretty much an obsession to me, that's pretty much all I was saying there. It was so relaxing it didn't even feel ike gaming but something better.
That's a weird logical leap to make, since nothing in my statement suggested that.
SolarPowered
Member
Maybe you shouldn't have taken over NOA then dammit.
In an ideal world this means that they are gonna hire external help from the west to assess market trends and listening to their western studios and second parties, sadly this is Nintendo so this will probably translate to Iwata skimming Neogaf's frontpage and saying "Guess they want Skyrim and Tomb Raider!" while Reggie nods approvingly in the background. Seriously, you know you are out of touch when Sega knows a market better than you.
You stated that Retro was lying when they said they legitimately wanted to make DKCTF. If they're lying, there's only one logical conclusion of what they're lying about. Which you've confirmed in the edit to your post.
You made the implication to discredit my point. I ran with it.
SolidSnakex
Member
Oh, I definitely wasn't trying to imply that Nintendo is anywhere near the same situation. If anything they have the room, money, and time to come up with their Dreamcast, except they would still be in a position to give it full support both in terms of games and marketing. The big questions are whether or not they have the people to make a console like that, and will those in the power positions give them their full support to make that console?
How many pure FPS games has Nintendo created internally and published historically? Would doing so not fundamentally represent a change of identity for the company? If they published on mobile - would it not be a unique position to release Nintendo software that is not tied to hardware? Both of those propositions would undercut the identity of the company. Is that a bad thing? I can't say. But it would be a different Nintendo for sure.
You ran in the wrong direction, because nothing in my post had anything to do with other studios or the GCN era.
But since you so kindly opened up the discussion, would it really surprise you to consider that management might direct its wholly-owned component studios to iterate upon their biggest financial successes?
Or that PR occasionally lies?
No, it wouldn't. But then why LIE about it when nothing is gained from it? It smacks of a conspiracy drummed up by gamers who don't want to look at the presented facts at face value.
I brought up the GC and Wii eras as precedent for my point. Any of them could have made the games that we wanted, but they didn't.
Because saying "we're making DKTF not because we still have some new avenues to take the franchise, because the last one made a shit-ton of money" isn't going to satisfy your base, when they want to see something creative?
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
Holy fucking shit. This is the same shit as last year. I thought the entire reason he became NOA CEO was to ensure Nintendo stayed relevant in the West and keep track of development there and now he says that he can't be "his own antenna there". What has he done as CEO of NOA?
Iwata your stock just went down by 17%. You can't stall this shit for another year. You need to start now and discuss what your going to do in detail now (investors meeting). No more please understand, no more we have so and so in development but tel us exactly whats going on.
Iwata your stock just went down by 17%. You can't stall this shit for another year. You need to start now and discuss what your going to do in detail now (investors meeting). No more please understand, no more we have so and so in development but tel us exactly whats going on.
Except the lie obviously satisfies nothing when people keep talking about it as a lie. So nothing is gained from it.
So if nothing is gained from a statement, it's more likely to be the truth.
Well it obviously satisfied you.
That and having to keep Metroid, Metroid. I think Raven Blade should've been resurrected because it would appeal to the 18-35 core gamer and keep Retro oriented to Western gamers.
Nintendo should've bought Vigil and Volition when THQ went under, but Iwata sat on his hands when a prime opportunity presented itself. I think the "talent bleed" is an excuse that Iwata/Nintendo uses to justify not expanding their development resources due conservatism and penny pinching.
And I'm not the majority. By a long shot. Or people would be agreeing with me here, wouldn't they?
But feel free to concoct a story of devs lying to us.
We're dealing with a company that repeatedly tells its investors and consumers that they learned from their mistakes or their droughts and repeats them ad nausem over the course of a decade. You're going to tell me that I should take everything they say on face value?
Its not like they're going to try and compete against CoD.
The dev team at Retro isn't Nintendo.
Not every developer is a corporate mouthpiece.
Seriously. My feeling now is put up or shut up. Doesn't seem to me like they've learned jack squat. When they start actually DOING something about it, I'll be more impressed.