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[SketchTheArtist]

Don't be talkin' trash about Cheetos.

Also I think Jaffe's comment was stupid.

I won't be trash-talin' about the Cheetos-Man!

I'm just tired of these whiny losers who think that because they can name two game designers and they finished a game that they know how the industry works. God.

Personally, I think Sony should've went with the MS way and produced an add-on that people who are interested in this technology would buy. It would've reduced production time and costs for the system and they could've had a direct competition with MS's 360.
However, since they want to push their Blue-Ray technology down people's throath, they made that move instead.

Also, is it really that difficult changing a disc? Not that it won't probably happen with the new compression technology, but, oh well.

 

[The Bookerman]

Hey Jaffe, i respect you cause you have the balls(balls of steel) to say what you think, and you give us your real thoughts, not some PR bullshit Sony told you to say.

There I said it.

 

[kinoki]

They asked him what he would change with the PlayStation 3. From what I can read he said "remove [item] to make it cheaper." It's not like they asked him: "why isn't the PS3 selling more?"

 

[Ploid 3.0]

PS2 was perfectly fine with cds at launch. Could have saved some money. Changing disks is no problem. Same with tv remotes, and the sound on cd was the same also.

 

[Kabuki Waq]

I love the way how last week Jaffe was great because he speaks his mind but now he sucks because he speaks his mind.

 

[Dunpeal]

PS2 was perfectly fine with cds at launch. Could have saved some money. Changing disks is no problem. Same with tv remotes, and the sound on cd was the same also.

Ps1 had games spawning 4 cds.

So, if you want to make a comparison, make a logical one hotshot. And didn't dvd launch way before the ps2?

 

[Raist]

I love the way how last week Jaffe was great because he speaks his mind but now he sucks because he speaks his mind.

Time flows like a river, and history doesn't repeat. (modified from Seiken Densetsu 2 © without the author's permission)

 

[neorej]

let's just keep in mind that Jaffe is a gamedeveloper and Sony is a electronics-manufacturer. Both great in what they do, and also have opinions about each other probably, but they also have different angles as how they approach the product. Jaffe has said (same interview) that he was done doing big God of War games, and wanted to focus more on smaller PSN titles. No wonder he doesn't perceive the BluRay as an added value; he doesn't want to use an optical drive altogether.

Heck, if someone asked me (prof. webdeveloper) what SQL Server can do without to make it cheaper, I'd whip out a shitload of features a whole lot of people use on a daily basis.

Let's just ask Cory Barlog on how he feels about the BluRay, considering GoW3 will be 1080p and insanely HUUUUUGE according to what I picked up from the rumourmill. I'm guessing he'd go for the cardreader, HDD and WiFi unit.

 

[VALIS]

Dave's a smart guy. Kudos to him for having the balls to say it. I'm sure a lot of GAME people who work for or with Sony are unhappy about the mess BluRay has caused for them (delays, shortages, price) but just won't say so.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

Ps1 had games spawning 4 cds.

So, if you want to make a comparison, make a logical one hotshot. And didn't dvd launch way before the ps2?

Pardon me for stepping out of line like that. DVD is perfect right now, don't know what I should have been thinking. Do you forgive me? Oh for breakfast, do I want toast or waffles?

 

[Dizzy]

Obviously he's just saying what everyone else is saying in regards to the PS3's disappointing sales. Everyone views Blu-Ray as the main culprit in the price tag. I wouldn't say that he was trying to talk bad on blu-ray by itself.

It's surprising that he admitted it, but then again Jaffe isn't a full on PR person and has always been more honest than most. With all the bad PS3 press around I don't think that he could deny it.

 

[Dunpeal]

Pardon me for stepping out of line like that. DVD is perfect right now, don't know what I should have been thinking. Do you forgive me? Oh for breakfast, do I want toast or waffles?

Cereals. Double time biatch go!

 

[mrklaw]

PS2 was perfectly fine with cds at launch. Could have saved some money. Changing disks is no problem. Same with tv remotes, and the sound on cd was the same also.

and after launch? How many games NOW would be fine with CDs on PS2? Probably none.

So DVDs would be fine for most games on PS3 now. But in 3-4 years? And this isn't some long term crippling cost. In 3-4 years that bluray drive will cost peanuts, just like DVD drives now

 

[theBishop]

I can understand why Jaffe would not see the value of Blu-Ray with his downloadable games.

 

[beelzebozo]

you just know he's gonna show up here to comment. he's like bloody mary:
say "jaffe" thirteen times in the mirror, kids. i dare you.

 

[1-D_FTW]

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/564

Food for thought. Those numbers IMO are shockingly low. Clearly people are not beating down the doors looking for DVD replacements.

Only history will be able to tell whether is was a massive mistake. If this 200 tax keeps PS3 in 3rd place worldwide and downloadable movies replace DVDs... then it's Sony's cartridge format.

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

I love the way how last week Jaffe was great because he speaks his mind but now he sucks because he speaks his mind.

kinda let's you know who the real fanboys are.

 

[ElectricBlue187]

me neither. but I don't see how it could've been different from Sony's viewpoint...it was like an unavoidable train accident playing out before your eyes

 

[Callo Merlose]

Jaffe should get into porn business to get properly screwed up the arse rather than have people verbally perforate him. Even though I agree with him, I think he should stop speaking/complaining his mind so much and focus on making a great game. That, or leave the industry.

 

[gregor7777]

I called Jaffe "Internet Troll #1" in a recent thread and I stand by that, but I do respect him for speaking his mind on issues that many developers would sweep under the rug.

Although, with Sony taking such a heavy beating cost wise with Blu Ray in the system, who's to say that without it the retail price wouldn't stay the same with Sony maybe squeaking out a little bit of profit.

But at least I think the system would have been released earlier without Blu Ray, maybe around the same time as the 360. Would have changed "the game" completely.

 

[plagiarize]

i wouldn't have a PS3 yet if it didn't have blu-ray, even if it was $400. why? only two games on the system that i wanted... been a whole bunch of films though.

obviously though blu-ray is at this point in time a much bigger advantage to people like me with high def TV sets who want high def films.

to gamers, its this hard to see advantage.

as i keep saying, if the PS3 had more memory than the 360, blu-ray's advantage could be demonstrated instantly with higher res textures than could fit on a DVD, but since that isn't the case, it can only do textures the same size as the 360 can.

until we can see some kind of obvious (and by SEE i mean SEE with our eyes) by just playing the games (as we could with CD and cartridges). uncompressed audio is nice, but most people can't hear the difference or don't care. n64 had worse sound quality, worse textures (better texture filtering though naturally) and worse fmv. anyone could instantly see that.

blu-ray is an advantage, no question. it's just hard to demonstrate that advantage to the person playing the game.

 

[1-D_FTW]

I called Jaffe "Internet Troll #1" in a recent thread and I stand by that, but I do respect him for speaking his mind on issues that many developers would sweep under the rug.

Although, with Sony taking such a heavy beating cost wise with Blu Ray in the system, who's to say that without it the retail price wouldn't stay the same with Sony maybe squeaking out a little bit of profit.

But at least I think the system would have been released earlier without Blu Ray, maybe around the same time as the 360. Would have changed "the game" completely.

And been released with what? Even with the extra year of development time, Sony clearly didn't have their 1st party line-up ready to roll.

 

[DrXym]

Everybody at sony probably wishes the ps3 didn't have blu-ray... Most of them just wouldn't say so publicly. Hopefully there won't be any repercussions for this. He's a great asset for them.

Everybody? I expect some of them wished it didn't have blu-ray and maybe some still do. But given that all of the production issues are in the past, does it really make much sense to complain about it now?

Clearly Sony botched the launch, primarily because of Blu-Ray, but now that it's here, I can't think of any good reason that it should go. Doing so would kill the Blu-Ray format, and probably the Playstation 3 too in the process. That doesn't seem very sensible. Besides which blu-ray offers lots of advantages for games (localization, more content, optimized content, less piracy etc.) that it has merits even before considering that the PS3 is also able to play high definition movies too.

 

[gregor7777]

And been released with what? Even with the extra year of development time, Sony clearly didn't have their 1st party line-up ready to roll.

I suppose your right in that regard, I have no idea how far along in the development process studio's were with games that would have been released with a late 2005/early 2006 PS3 launch.

At what point did Sony confirm that the PS3 was not going to be released until late 2006?

 

[Beer Monkey]

If PS3 would have launched at the same time and price as the Xbox 360, Microsoft would be dead in this business and would likely be planning their withdrawal by now.

Of course, they would have had to drop Blu-Ray in order to do that. But they would have had to start planning, getting dev tools, etc. years earlier than they did.

 

[Draft]

Jaffe should stick to software amirite or amirite?

 

[MrSardonic]

"It's like, 'F**k you capitalist society that says all I need to do is work and contribute to the bottom line. F**k you up your a**.' I want a life."

Agreed.

 

[Krowley]

Everybody? I expect some of them wished it didn't have blu-ray and maybe some still do. But given that all of the production issues are in the past, does it really make much sense to complain about it now?

Clearly Sony botched the launch, primarily because of Blu-Ray, but now that it's here, I can't think of any good reason that it should go. Doing so would kill the Blu-Ray format, and probably the Playstation 3 too in the process. That doesn't seem very sensible. Besides which blu-ray offers lots of advantages for games (localization, more content, optimized content, less piracy etc.) that it has merits even before considering that the PS3 is also able to play high definition movies too.

No i don't mean it that way... I'm not saying they should remove blu-ray. It's already too late.

I'm saying they probably wish they hadn't included it in the first place because they could have sold the system more cheaply and possibly avoided the slow sales.

edit// the biggest problem i have with blu-ray is that i'm not sure that this whole idea of HD movie discs is going to even work out.... How much longer are we going to be confined to disc based media for our films? I'm thinking downloads and streaming media are the future. It has other advantages besides just looking better.. it's more portable, it's more accessible.. The future's going to be about turning on your TV, flipping through a giant list of movies in every concievable genre and then watching movies on demand... And i'm talking about a massive library of films, basicly everything you could ever want to watch... You probably won't even have to pay for each individual movie. It will be subscription based.

I think that's the next step after DVD. It takes a lot of benefits to make people switch formats. If DVD only looked better than VHS that probably wouldn't have been enough to instigate a switchover. DVD's had all sorts of other advantages, from the physical size to greater durability to digital control.. Scene skipping and all that stuff. The next step as far as usability is internet based distribution.

 

[Borys]

KITTONWY AM AWESOME-WOWSOME CRY

 

[Brosa]

Isn't it so that the ONLY difference in the Bill Of Material for an internal Blu-ray player vs an internal DVD player would be the blue LED instead of a red one? They both are disc reading devices with a motor, some electronics, an arm to move the LED and some wires here and there. How can that possibly drive cost by such a mean? I realize the supply of blue LEDs compared to red ones might still be limited, but can it really be a difference of such significant ammount of money that it would lower the retail price of a PS3 so much that people would still be queueing to get one? And aren't in fact Sony themselves making the LEDs?

One other difference would be the royalties involved in the various codecs and A/V standards used that the DVD doesn't handle. Maybe that's it?

 

[dark10x]

On a side note...

"I want to do games that take 10-13 months; I want to do games that aren't always story-driven, that are more gameplay-driven."

Outside of God of War, this is what Jaffe has ALWAYS done. I mean, sure, previous games he's worked on may have featured extremely light story telling, but they were focused primarily on gameplay. God of War was the first exception to this.

 

[Monk]

This day, Jaffe has proven that he is no mouthpiece of Sony. ANd he is right. I am seriously considering the 360 over the ps3 because of the price. I am no cheap skate though. I tend to pay full price for games. Thats $100 AUD a game. I dont mind though, because when i love a game i think its all worth it.

 

[anddo0]

I think I will wait for the context.

Yeah same here

 

[DrXym]

Isn't it so that the ONLY difference in the Bill Of Material for an internal Blu-ray player vs an internal DVD player would be the blue LED instead of a red one? They both are disc reading devices with a motor, some electronics, an arm to move the LED and some wires here and there. How can that possibly drive cost by such a mean? I realize the supply of blue LEDs compared to red ones might still be limited, but can it really be a difference of such significant ammount of money that it would lower the retail price of a PS3 so much that people would still be queueing to get one? And aren't in fact Sony themselves making the LEDs?

One other difference would be the royalties involved in the various codecs and A/V standards used that the DVD doesn't handle. Maybe that's it?

I think that's basically it. Blu-ray drives cost more because the blue laser diode and drive train are different even if most of the other components are the same. But how much more I wonder. iSuppli pulled out a unit cost of $125 last year in the middle of a blue laser diode drought when there was precious little supply and low yields. I would be very surprised if the cost were $70 now and the price will fall over time just as DVD drives did compared to CDROM.

 

[ElectricBlue187]

Even though I agree with him, I think he should stop speaking/complaining his mind so much and focus on making a great game. That, or leave the industry.

That, or ignore your unimportant opinion and keep doing whatever he wants

 

[karasu]

who gives a shit

 

[Omar Ismail]

Isn't it so that the ONLY difference in the Bill Of Material for an internal Blu-ray player vs an internal DVD player would be the blue LED instead of a red one? They both are disc reading devices with a motor, some electronics, an arm to move the LED and some wires here and there. How can that possibly drive cost by such a mean? I realize the supply of blue LEDs compared to red ones might still be limited, but can it really be a difference of such significant ammount of money that it would lower the retail price of a PS3 so much that people would still be queueing to get one? And aren't in fact Sony themselves making the LEDs?

It's not just a little LED that's the difference. Blu-Ray is a lot more dense so all the components have to be much higher quality. The motors have to be more accurate/senstive, the lenses have to be higher quality, etc etc. And since they're not making 100 million BR drives a month (like what is happening with DVD) then the economies of scale aren't as significant making the whole thing more expensive.

 

[el Diablo]

Personally i see this as the biggest gamble in gaming ever. Sony hedged the top spot in gaming to try to win the next gen disc format war. I hope that BD is worth more to them than their gaming division cause that's what it's going to end up costing them. In a best case scenario i see the PS3 splitting with the X360 and the Wii taking the lions share. Big difference than what happened with the PS2 and its competitors.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

If PS3 would have launched at the same time and price as the Xbox 360, Microsoft would be dead in this business and would likely be planning their withdrawal by now.

Of course, they would have had to drop Blu-Ray in order to do that. But they would have had to start planning, getting dev tools, etc. years earlier than they did.

That's the thing, MS launched early, I'm sure the last gen had legs to last about 2 more years. GC and Xbox sure did. There was no way PS3 could have launched along with xbox 360 anyway. If it did it would have no software, or no good launch games.

People are taking his quote way out of context here. They see a opening and are running with it. If you could take something out of PS3 what would it be? EE, rsx, cell, blu ray, hdd, or something not listed? If asked the same thing about wii or 360? I can't even view this interview segment at the moment but what did he follow up with? He give a reason?

 

[TigersFan]

It's not just a little LED that's the difference. Blu-Ray is a lot more dense so all the components have to be much higher quality. The motors have to be more accurate/senstive, the lenses have to be higher quality, etc etc. And since they're not making 100 million BR drives a month (like what is happening with DVD) then the economies of scale aren't as significant making the whole thing more expensive.

Just because it bugs me, Blue Ray drives use lasers, not LED's. They're based on some of the same principles and materials, but they're different devices and the light they emit isn't the same.

 

[pr0cs]

In the context that he's talking he's dead on. The blu-ray drive is the proverbial concrete shoes around the PS3.
I would imagine the PS3 would have been much further ahead than the 360 at this point given the branding. Both units would have likely been out at the same time so Microsofts important head start would have been irrelevant.

The BD is probably the reason why I'm so unhappy with Sony, they decided to sacrifice their gaming division in order to shoe-horn in a new media format that they're in control of so they can reap the benefits of it. If Sony has to fall this generation I hope it's because they turned the PS3 into a trojan horse.

 

[Brofist]

I'm glad Jaffe tells it like it is. I'm also glad that he has no say in the hardware aspect and blu-ray made it in

 

[Aisenherz]

He said that, because the PS3 would be cheaper and SONY could sell more units. ..and NOT because Blu-Ray isn't good for developers/games.

 

[Emowii]

The more i've thought about it, the more intelligent I think Sony's decision to put Bluray in the PS3 was. I think it will pay major dividends for them in the long run.

Things seem bad for the PS3 right now, but a year from now I think the vibe on the PS3 is gonna be a lot more positive, and I think Bluray is a part of that. Having games like MGS4 on ONE DISC rather than two or three is gonna be nice.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

who gives a shit

Seriously. What does this change, really?

 

[Draft]

Seriously. What does this change, really?

We hate Jaffe now.

 

[Dr_Cogent]

*yawn*

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

We hate Jaffe now.

Ah. So not even Jaffe can say something negative about the PS3 without ridiculous GAF backlash.

 

[The Jer]

It's a bit too early to open this thread, as Jaffe will say more about this in part 3, that was a single sentence at the end of part 2 in sneak peak of part 3.

Let's wait till that part of the interview comes out, this Sunday. He didn't even talk about this in part 2. If I recall correctly the original trailer made it look like he was telling the interviewer to "**** you up your ***." when in fact he was talking about.... umm...certain gamers, I believe. It's pretty hard to make it sound like he said something else, but let's wait till we hear in context. We don't even have the interview to go off of, yet; there shouldn't be much to discuss, seeing as that is the only line we have heard, so far. Talking about Jaffe's opinion on something, when we haven't had the chance to hear is opinion on something, is rather silly. And we can hear his opinion in just a few days (Sunday). In the mean time, we should keep it in the thread that is about this interview, IMO.

 

[travisbickle]

Why would anyone except for people financially associated with Sony give a shit about killing Microsoft? And the bigger question why would anyone that's a fan of gaming want 2 consoles that are exactly the same?

All the people here that state "Sony releasing the PS3 at the same time as the xbox 360 with a DVD drive" think they'd be seeing LAIR, Heavenly Sword, Uncharted and Final Fantasy as they are now. Even Motorstorm and Resistance use BluRay, or would you all prefer Sony to cut corners release at exactly the same spec and price as the 360, get all the multi-platform titles the same, sell downloadable content, maybe ask consumers pay for a substantial online component, sell hard drives, copy everything Microsoft does, and carry on a boring cycle.

The PS3 is what it is, the spec, the components, the BLU RAY drive, the first party devs, Sony's vision, have all been bought together to bring you the PS3, I don't want to sound like Kutugari but "if you take anything away from the PS3 it won't be a PS3"